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Building new PC - need advice.

S

steviep

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
4,985
Newb to the forum, but I've been lurking for a while, thanks to my LCD search. It's great :D

Anyway, I've decided to build an Intel P4 system, for multiple reasons. First one, I'm not only a game-player, I do a lot of multitasking involving multimedia, too. Plus, they seem to be ahead in terms of technology. (i.e. DDR2, nicer motherboards, etc). So that argument is moot.

Anyway, here are the specs I'm thinking about.

1) monitor: Dell 2005fpw
grrr I'm so on the fence about it... it's the only "big" monitor that's good for gaming AND colour reproduction/brightness... I was thinking about the Viewsonic 19" VP192 or whatever it is, but the screendoor effect would definately drive me nuts (why don't they produce a LCD that big with .25 dot pitch instead of .29?!!). Anyway, I don't like the idea of having a "Dell" branded monitor, but I definately want an 8-bit panel with a less than 16ms response time (S-IPS i guess), and it has to be 19" or above, because I'm stepping up from a 17" Viewsonic PS775 CRT w/USB hub. Need that USB hub.

2) Case: Antec Performance One w/380watt Antec PS (wish they made it in black, I'm going to have 3 optical drives, and the case only comes with 2 silver bezels)

3) Motherboard: Asus P5AD2-E Premium (has the 925XE chipset, which is the only choice for intel right now. anything else won't even have a hope to upgrade, since it's the only one with 1066FSB)

4) RAM: OCZ 1GB DDR2-533 Dual Channel (doesn't seem to be much of a choice here, nothing else compares right now)

5) Processor (LGA775): Tossup between the P4-520 (3.0E Ghz w/800 FSB) now, or get a Celeron 345 (3.06Ghz w/533 FSB) now, and wait for the 1066FSB chips to be more accessible in terms of price/availability. The reason I'm even considering a Celery as opposed to the P4-HT's, is because with memory running at 533, the processor would certainly run better if it were 533 instead of 800, right?) What do you guys think?

6) HD: 2x36GB Raptors, or 1x74gb Raptor? I don't want to take up an extra hard drive slot (i already have so many HD's) for just a small performance increase in raid... am I right?

7) Video: 6800GT 256mb... any suggestions here? They don't seem to be available easily in Canada. Need some suggestions that are $600CDN or less.

8) DVD-ROM: Lite-On 16x black DVD (is this the best? I'm a DJ so it needs to read scratched discs/copyrighted discs pretty good.

9) Burner: Already will be putting my 44x Yamaha CD-RW (the best), but will also be purchasing a NEC 3520A 16x as I have good experience with the 2500A (upgraded to the 2510).

10) Mouse+keyboard: Need suggestions here. Needs to be WIRED (in a small room) black/silver, and the keys need to feel good. Thinking about the Microsoft Optical Desktop OEM, but not sure. Suggestions?

11) Speakers: Logitech Z5300e - but before I buy, do they plug in with SPDIF? I need a good, powerful system that can plug into an SPDIF, as I have a Live 5.1 in the system.

12) Forgetting anything?

Thanks for the suggestions,
Steve
 
2) Case: Antec Performance One w/380watt Antec PS (wish they made it in black, I'm going to have 3 optical drives, and the case only comes with 2 silver bezels)
Click to expand...

Get the case without the PSU (its a great case) and get a more powerful PSU. 380 is pushing the minimum you want with that 6800GT.

-zac
 
www.canadacomputers.com has some pretty good deals, they're located in B.C, or here in ottawa(where its -41 outside right now :eek:) they have dealsdirect.ca, it has a ton of urls leading to it though, like canadacomputers.ca (ca not com like the other site)

They mostly only carry the most popular brands, for instance they dont have the Abit NF7-S, some great deals though. As for the processor, for sure go with the P4 and not the celeron, and judging by your video card this is a gaming computer.... So you might want to consider going AMD, its alot better for gaming.
 
Your right, there will be gaming going on. But to be honest, I'll be doing more multimedia stuff than gaming (got my gamecube for the bulk of very few hours/week of gaming, but will definately use the PC for a few RTS/FPS games now and them)

I'll see about getting that PS to 400-450... but the 380 that it comes with is an Antec TruePower, which is significantly better than a standard 380 from what I hear.

Don't want a 6600GT, as I currently have a GF4 Ti4200 w/128mb, and paying money for a moderate step up to 6600GT w/128 isn't worth it. If I get a video card, I'm going for the gusto so that it lasts a while. Only problem is, it seems to be hard to find a 256mb 6800GT PCI-ex here. Won't be going AGP, obviously, because of my board.

As for the processor... yeah, it's only a few bucks more to go for the full P4... I realize that. But with memory running @ 533, and a processor running @ 800, doesn't that create a bottleneck? Wouldn't you thinking having a Celery running @ 533 would go better with the RAM, and then later on I would just pop in a P4 running @ 1066, which would again rid of some of the bottlenecks between processor and memory, because 1066 is (obviously) a multiple of 533?

Keep in mind I've been running a Celeron 1.3Ghz for the last couple years, and it's suited me fine with my GF4 with most games, up till now (it struggles a bit w/Doom 3 and HL2, so I have to keep the resolutions lower). Anything would be a step up, really. And being with a Celeron @ 3Ghz wouldn't bug me much waiting for the 1066FSB Prescotts to become more of a reality. Damnit, I just wish they already made DDR2-800 so I wouldn't have to deal with this crap. lol. Thanks again for everyone's quick responses.

Steve
 
steviep said:
2) Case: Antec Performance One w/380watt Antec PS (wish they made it in black, I'm going to have 3 optical drives, and the case only comes with 2 silver bezels)
Click to expand...

E-mail Antec at support@antec.com . Their customer service is top-notch (I've dealt with them) and I'm sure they'll show you how to get another bezel. Response time was within 24 hours on each e-mail I sent.
 
Get a Celery 330J from the egg for under $100 now, then upgrade to a 2m later down the road.

Great choice on the mobo.

In regaurds to the cpu and memory, no.

The Bus speed on the Pentium 4 is really only 133 on a 533 cpu and 200 on an 800cpu. THe cpu sends 4 peices of info every fsb cycle as apposed to 1, so intel multiplies it by 4 for simple marketing advantages.

Don't get a P4 now......there's some really interesting ones coming out very soon
 
Yes I was aware of the 4x multiplier, but just used their marketing figures for the sake of consistency. Can't shop off newegg cause I'm from Toronto :(

But yeah, I thought about every angle, and it just didn't seem right having a processor that doesn't correspond to any multiplier that the RAM is running with. (533 ram & "533"/133 processor sounds like it would work better than 533 ram & "800"/200 processor). I also had a look at the intel roadmap and figured that yes, I would hold off on the P4 purchase. Don't care much for the dual-core mumbo-jumbo, though. They won't be useful until Longhorn comes out in 2008 anyway. lol. I'm just waiting for the "1066"FSB Prescotts.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/vga/vga/pro_vga_detail.php?UID=623

What does everyone think of that card? (it's an MSI 6800GT PCI-e). Is that one of the 6800's that can be "upgraded" via a bios update to work like a 6800u? It seems to be listed here http://www.canadacomputers.com/video.html#gra for $449 Canadian, which seems too good to be true.

Again, thanks for everyone's help. I wonder how much Antec would charge for an extra bezel... PS do you really think it's worth it to bug my computer store (eskynet.com) to swap out their 380watt PS on the Antec case and pay extra for a few more watts?

Steve
 
Bounty has a great suggestion, in a matter of months dual core proc's will be coming out, and this computer will already be "old news", so you might just want to buy a pretty cheap mobo///proc and upgrade down the line.
 
I was thinking more about the single core HT's with the 1066 (266) FSB's that I can stick into that motherboard. Reason being, the first Dual cores that come out (either at the end of this year or beginning of next) they will be crap. Hyperthreading will be disabled well into next year, and the clocks will obviously be reduced as well. Not to mention Windows XP can't do shit with a dual-core right now. You'll have to wait till Longhorn (minimum 2007) to take full advantage of them. So for me, a dual core upgrade is minimum 2 years away. However, he hit the nail on the head when he said get a crappier processor for now. Right now, that seems like a logical move considering I'm not going to spend $1300 on a P4-EE just because it has a moderate performance increase with the 1066FSB.
 
That's a pretty good plan, buying parts brand new really screws ya over. In 2000 i payed 3,500$ for this computer, which at todays standards is considered a pos. It has 128 mb of ram, a 766 mhz p3 processor, a 40 gb hdd, 1 small fan that can barely cover the computer(temps of high 50's w/ no oc) and a 3dfx voodoo 3000. So thats a pretty good plan, buy a bit older, i'm sure you won't notice a difference. My computer was 3,500$, but with a 600$ budget today i could easily triple the performance.
 
I'm going to be spending minimum $3000CAD on this system anyway, though, even with the Celeron. Most of the other parts are quite new, and that Dell LCD costs the bulk of it :(

But, really... considering I'm moving up from a Celeron 1.3, will I really miss hyperthreading because of the 3GHz Celeron until the 1066's become cheaper? I DO use the PC for a lot of multimedia work...
 
PS - if you're knowledgable, feel free to answer any of my other 'opinion' questions, too :)
 
I believe that one 74Gb Raptor will be a better overall solution than 2x36Gb in RAID 0. The following article: http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101 shows that benchmarks improve, but real world performance doesn't except in certain circumstances. It certainly shows that one 74Gb Raptor is rather faster than one 36Gb Raptor at the very least. Best case, you might find 2x36GB = 1x74Gb, but costs more, consumes more power and has half the mean time to failure.
 
celery's suck ass I wouldn't waste the money. I would just get the cheapest prescott I could now and upgrade it later. A new celery an old celery what is the difference they all suck.
 
get the Pentium, not the celeron. remember, DDR2 533 operates at 266mhz FSB, not 133mhz, so it will be fine for the pentium.
 
Sorry, 266mhz... but either way, the Prescott's run at 200... doesn't that not work so well?
 
Hate to do a cheesy bump, but i need an answer to that question. Would a P4-HT 3.0E be more suited to this system, or a Celeron? Obviously the answer to the simple question is the full P4, as it's not much more expensive. But again I worry about the FSB vs memory issue creating a bottleneck between the two. The only reason I'm even thinking about the Celeron is to shave costs down while waiting for the 1066 P4s to surface more... as well as the Celeron running on a multiple of the DDR2's speed.

Steve
 
the memory will run at the speed of your FSB, unless you use a divider. the memory you are looking at supports 266mhz, so if you o/c your prescott from 200mhz FSB to 266mhz FSB, the memory will be stable.


trust me and the rest of us. you want the Pentium, the memory will be fine :)


p.s. o/c your FSB to 1066! Basically raise it from 200mhz to 266mhz! Since Intel's FSB is quad-pumped, 266(.66666666666666666666)mhz FSB x 4 = 1066mhz!
 
Planning on running it with standard air cooling, though (2 12cm fans in the case) and the stock retail hs/fan... dunno how stable it would be running @ 266... as they obviously weren't designed for it.

Just out of curiousity though... which processor could I get around 4ghz by O/Cing the FSB... I don't like the idea of it, though...

So just for reference, if I were to keep these processors at their normal FSB, which would be the better choice?
 
PS Just did the calculations... a 3.0E running at 266mhz bus would be about 4ghz... don't think the computer can sustain itself heat-wise running on just the air cooling. Don't like that idea, and don't have the funds to put significantly better cooling :(

On the other hand, running the memory @ 200 would be a waste of its potential, wouldn't it? Gahhh I'm not sure... please keep the advice coming. Thanks everyone!
 
trust me, you want the Pentium if you can afford it. And even if you mildly overclock, the RAM would be fine. Trust me on this.

Running the RAM at 200mhz is like running it at 400mhz. Why? DUAL data rate. so 200 x 2 is 400

Since you have DUAL channel memory, 400 x 2 is 800mhz. Trust me, you'll be fine. If you overclock to 240mhz FSB, 240 x 2 is 480. Thats the speed of the memory. 480 x 2 is 960, thats the speed of the of the FSB.
 
Yes, but the stock speed of the memory is 266 (533) so if I ran it with anything less than a 266mhz x 4 FSB, wouldn't it be a waste? And again, a P4 3.0 won't clock to 4ghz (266mhz fsb increase) with just plenty of air cooling, right?
 
stevie, since it is the slowest DDR2 available right now, no its not a waste. if it were a waste, then upgrading your current rig would be too. if you can run games right now then why upgrade? so no, its not going to be a waste.
 
lol sorry to make your vains pop...
one more question, then (to everyone) - what kind of cooling would I need to run the P4 at a 1066 (266) mhz FSB (i.e. a 3.0E @ 4GHz)? Would 2 12cm fans & the retail HSF be enough? Don't think so, but never hurts to ask.
 
hm..probably wont, i'd try and upgrade to a Thermalright TR120 or something like that. or even water cooling...
 
Water cooling? eek.
Anything I can do to the machine without raping the case, and spending $100's more? I'm on a budget :D
 
bumped & edit:
I also don't want to take the stock HSF apart, either.
 
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