Building a seperate system as file server

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EnderW

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I'm thinking of building a separate system to use as a file server.
I would connect this to my DGL-4300 Gigabit router and I want transfer speeds to be as fast as possible - basically want it to be as fast as having the RAID5 card in my main machine.
I want this to be inexpensive without sacrificing performance.
Also, wanted to add that this will only be serving one user/computer and will have movies/music on it.

I already have the hard drives and RAID card.
I need recommendations on:
  • CPU: I don't care how slow it is as long as it doesn't affect the speed of my files transferring to the main computer. I would like something that is energy efficient though
  • motherboard: something cheap and stable
  • RAM: again, just enough that it isn't a bottleneck
  • boot disk: can I use a USB thumbdrive? once again, don't want anything here to be the bottleneck
  • OS: never used anything windows XP, but if there is a simple version of Linux, then I'll look into it. remember this machine is just going to be stuck in a closet, not used for any computing
  • NIC: unless the motherboard has built in Gigabit, I will need to add one
 
What RAID card do you already have? PCI-X? This will effect MB suggestions.

My software Highpoint can easily saturate gigE, your gonna need 4GB fiber channel to match your requirement of speeds equal to "on board"
 
longblock454 said:
What RAID card do you already have? PCI-X? This will effect MB suggestions.

My software Highpoint can easily saturate gigE, your gonna need 4GB fiber channel to match your requirement of speeds equal to "on board"
Click to expand...

PCI-E

after thinking this over I think I'm gonna stick with onboard
 
I wouldn't use a thumbdrive as a boot disk. Too many read/writes can wear out a compact flash device.
 
Are you using PCI-X or PCI Express? Dual p3 boards are what I usually recommend for PCI-X - ECC memory, cheap, good expansion options, and plenty fast - but I don't know anything offhand that has those three properties with PCI Express.

What's your possible budget for this?

NIC: This ($33 right now, pci-x) or these (3*110 BIN, pci-e) would be good choices.
Memory: Something ECC. Dual channel wouldn't hurt, but whatever's cheap.
CPU: Again, whatever's cheap. I'd avoid any "value" CPUs, though - no Celerons, for example - since you might want to do more computationally expensive things with this machine in the future.
Board: Whatever has good bus layouts in your price range. Consider future expansion now.
OS: Debian stable is what I like for sit-in-corner boxes.
Boot disk: USB thumbdrive will work, but takes more work to make sure nothing's writing to it. Cheap 80 gig drives, raid 1? Linux'll do it in software, just need to make sure you have enough ports for that with p3 stuff.
 
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what kind of transfer rate can I expect from Gigabit?

I know it works out to 125 MB, but is that what I will actually see?
all I'm really concerned with is I don't want a delay when browsing through folders or streaming 1080p content
 
EnderW said:
all I'm really concerned with is I don't want a delay when browsing through folders or streaming 1080p content
Click to expand...

Hah, you don't need gigabit for 1080p. Unless you're doing uncompressed video or something :eek: I have never had problems streaming 1080 i/p over 100 mbit. Look at the media mux rates and tell me why ;) As for latency when browsing - SMB is a fickle mistress. It happens sometimes, and I have never figured out a consistent reason why.
 
Streaming will be no issue.

Cruising files you will notice a delay, especially large Windoze directories.

NFS in linux is MUCH faster listing directories, but that won't do you much good from a win machine.

Real world your likely to see 80% of the gigE speeds on large files only.
 
unhappy_mage said:
Hah, you don't need gigabit for 1080p. Unless you're doing uncompressed video or something :eek: I have never had problems streaming 1080 i/p over 100 mbit. Look at the media mux rates and tell me why ;) As for latency when browsing - SMB is a fickle mistress. It happens sometimes, and I have never figured out a consistent reason why.
Click to expand...

SMB?

I don't want latency while browsing - I'll just keep it all in one machine if that's going to happen
 
Server Message Block, the default file sharing protocol for Windows. Latency probably won't be an issue, but it could happen. If it does, there are things to try - TeeJayHoward had some problems with this IIRC, and fixed them.
 
hmm, I'm really thinking about this

already have an old Lian Li case that's been collecting dust for a year

and my apartment has a little laundry room with shelves over the washer/dryer
I could put the system in there, and then run some white Cat 5 (is that what Gigabit uses?) out of the room directly into the kitchen behind all the cabinets, then over the door, along the wall to the main computer


laundry room is behind this door
img5727mediummt9.jpg



going from behind the cabinets to around this small wall sticking out will be the hardest
img5728mediumfu8.jpg



along the baseboard of this wall
img5729mediummv9.jpg


to the computer
img5730mediumdg5.jpg
 
unhappy_mage said:
Server Message Block, the default file sharing protocol for Windows. Latency probably won't be an issue, but it could happen. If it does, there are things to try - TeeJayHoward had some problems with this IIRC, and fixed them.
Click to expand...

I've had a bajillion SMB issues.

My file server is set up VERY simply right now. In Windows XP64, I right-click a folder and select "Sharing and Security..." and share the folder that way. On my MacBook Pro, I access the share through the usual ways, and can traverse a directory structure as quickly easily as if it were local. My network is only 100TX, not even gigabit.

Like u_m said, latency shouldn't be an issue. If you run into any problems, though, drop me a PM. I've dealt with more SMB BS than any one human should have to.
 
TeeJayHoward said:
I've had a bajillion SMB issues.

My file server is set up VERY simply right now. In Windows XP64, I right-click a folder and select "Sharing and Security..." and share the folder that way. On my MacBook Pro, I access the share through the usual ways, and can traverse a directory structure as quickly easily as if it were local. My network is only 100TX, not even gigabit.

Like u_m said, latency shouldn't be an issue. If you run into any problems, though, drop me a PM. I've dealt with more SMB BS than any one human should have to.
Click to expand...

any advice on how to avoid such SMB issues?
 
EnderW said:
any advice on how to avoid such SMB issues?
Click to expand...

Keep it simple. One OS across the whole network if possible. Buy only supported hardware. Set it up, get it working, then leave it the hell alone. Most of my problems have come from "adjusting", "tinkering", and "optimizing"... Although I can hardly call the end result "optimal" :)

A P3 with 512MB running XP Pro with gigabit and a PCIe RAID-5 card should give ya plenty of juice for a low cost. Watch out for cheap power supplies.
 
TeeJayHoward said:
Keep it simple. One OS across the whole network if possible. Set it up, get it working, then leave it the hell alone. Most of my problems have come from "adjusting", "tinkering", and "optimizing"... Although the last word hardly qualifies as such :)
Click to expand...

I can put any OS on the file server, but I really want to do just that - set it up and never mess with it - I want to use it for storage, just like a big hard drive and nothing else

I plan to dual boot XP Pro and Vista on the main machine, do you think that will be a problem?

also, any guides or links on how to set this up?
I've never done any networking
 
TeeJayHoward said:
A P3 with 512MB running XP Pro with dual integrated gigabit and a PCIe RAID-5 card should give ya plenty of juice for a low cost. Watch out for cheap power supplies.
Click to expand...
Where could I find a P3 motherboard with PCI-E?
And why would I need dual gigabit? Can you "combine" them into one really fast connection?
I know to stay away from cheap PSUs, I was planning on getting an 80+ or something really efficient to save on energy costs.
 
EnderW said:
I want this to be inexpensive without sacrificing performance. Also, wanted to add that this will only be serving one user/computer and will have movies/music on it.
IMHO ... you should just go with Direct Attached Storage. Which controller and drives do you have?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
EnderW said:
what do you mean by DAS?
Click to expand...

An external drive enclosure that was attached directly to your PC. Thought was that it would maintain performance and cost the same or less than building a file server ... especially one that supports a x8 PCI-e controller. Do you have a free x8 PCI-e connector in your computer that will support the RocketRAID 2320?
 
Dually said:
An external drive enclosure that was attached directly to your PC. Thought was that it would maintain performance and cost the same or less than building a file server ... especially one that supports a x8 PCI-e controller. Do you have a free x8 PCI-e connector in your computer that will support the RocketRAID 2320?
Click to expand...

yes, the controller and the drives are in there right now
could you give me an example of such a device?
 
Dually said:
ICEBox MultiLane SATA II Four Hard Drive Mini Enclosure

RocketRaid Compatible Quad SATA Removable Aluminum Enclosure MultiLane

Take a look at the CoolDrives Website ... they have a large selection of enclosures.

Ufortunately the RocketRAID 2320 doesn't have any external connectors ... so will need an adapter like this ... or this ... or this ... and the appropriate Multi-Lane or eSATA cable(s).
Click to expand...


since I have 8 drives I'd have to buy 2 so that would put me at $320 even for the cheapest one and with the adapters and cables, I think it would be just as expensive

not to mention it would be messy and probably loud - one reason I want all these drives out of my main system is so I can focus on making it silent since it's in the living room

interesting idea and thanks for all the info, but I don't think it's a route I want to go
 
Those enclosures are really not that noisy ... a whisper compared to my SC833T-550B :D Certainly something to keep in mind as you price out the cost of a file server.

If your going to locate the file server in the laundry room ... watch the temps! The Highpoint site has a listing of compatible motherboards that you might find useful.
 
EnderW said:
Where could I find a P3 motherboard with PCI-E?
And why would I need dual gigabit? Can you "combine" them into one really fast connection?
I know to stay away from cheap PSUs, I was planning on getting an 80+ or something really efficient to save on energy costs.
Click to expand...

Oops. And... Well, double oops. Replace PCIe with PCI-X, and remove "dual". Had a bit of a brain fart, I'm afraid.
TheRightWayToSayIt said:
A P3 with 512MB running XP Pro with gigabit and a PCI-X RAID-5 card should give ya plenty of juice for a low cost.
Click to expand...
 
longblock454 said:
Real world your likely to see 80% of the gigE speeds on large files only.
Click to expand...

80% of 1000 Mb/s is 800 Mb/s aka 100 MB/s. This is not typical -- it's much better than average, for actual file transfers. More typical is 50-60 MB/s in the mid-range, and 30 MB/s in the lower end.

Note also that the drive and network speed on both ends matter. If you have a typical single drive on the other side, the most you're going to be able to do is somewhere around 60 MB/s, depending on the drive, its file system, crowding, etc.

With a 2320 in an Asus A8N-VM CSM using on-board or add-on PCIe networking, and ftp, under Vista, going to another computer with on-board networking and on-board RAID, I've exceeded 100 MB/s large file transfers.

BTW, the 2320 only needs a x4 slot, and works fine in the above nForce 430/6150's "video card" x16 slot, using on-board video for display. I'd also consider an add-on PCI video card (from discards or eBay) if on-board wasn't available and I needed the PCIe slot (and of course didn't care much about video performance or resolution on the server).
 
EnderW ---

I think you have the wrong design model.

If you want to do computational work on large files, use something like PCAnywhere to run your software on a powerful file server. Let your workstation be something modest.

If you want to serve HDTV, even wireless "g" is fast enough.
 
Madwand said:
80% of 1000 Mb/s is 800 Mb/s aka 100 MB/s. This is not typical -- it's much better than average, for actual file transfers. More typical is 50-60 MB/s in the mid-range, and 30 MB/s in the lower end.
Click to expand...

Mad is probably more correct. The majority of the hardware I deal with is a bit over average.

IIRC your 4300 router does not support Jumbo Frames either....
 
longblock454 said:
IIRC your 4300 router does not support Jumbo Frames either....
Click to expand...

We never settled this discussion, did we? My fault.. it got complicated and Vista screwed up some of my theory. I'd like to correct that though, and have some new numbers which I could post. But it's still too early to draw any firm conclusions, because (*) Vista drivers, and probably Vista itself, are not in stable, finalized forms at this time.

Yes, the DLG-4300 doesn't support jumbo frames, but it tends to perform well for GbE transfers without jumbo frames, and that 100 MB/s file transfer I mentioned was without using jumbo frames.

With the hardware I used, under Vista, high end performance actually went down a bit with jumbo frames; however, low-end performance with PCI NICs went up. Note (*) also applies here.
 
Madwand said:
We never settled this discussion, did we? My fault.. it got complicated and Vista screwed up some of my theory. I'd like to correct that though, and have some new numbers which I could post. But it's still too early to draw any firm conclusions, because (*) Vista drivers, and probably Vista itself, are not in stable, finalized forms at this time.
Click to expand...

We'll get to it someday :D
 
drizzt81 said:
gosh darn that deal is gone and the supplier from hot-deals screwed me over. NICE.
Click to expand...
These are about the same price, but PCI-X and 5 instead of 3.

PS: one of my favorite eBay searches is "dual gigabit". Another is "7211C" - one day one of those will be cheap and I'll be ambitious.
 
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