Building a PC

D

Deadeye

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
124
Hello, welcome to my build.
The main purpose of the computer is going to be gaming. Games like Assasin's Creed, Crysis, COD4 and RTS games are going to be played on a regular basis, but not hardcore.
I do not plan on upgrading the entire PC every year, so I am trying to get as much out of my money as I can. My budget is around 800 euro's, without a monitor.

  • Case: CM 590 - Looks good and does the job.
  • PSU: Corsair TX650 - Can get it for less than a HX520.
  • Mobo: I Asus P5K SE - Good enough for what I'm going to do.
  • CPU: e8400 or Q6600. I can't decide just yet. At the moment I think I would go for the e8400, because I am not a multitasker.
  • HD: Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD753LJ, 750GB SATA-300, 32MB, 7200rpm - Heard it's very good.
  • GFX: XFX GeForce 8800GTX 768Mb DDDR3 Xt Pci-E Dual-Dvi Hdtv Out - Solid price, only 10 euro's more than the cheapest 8800GTS 512.
  • RAM: Kingston 4GB DDR2 (2x2GB) PC6400 800Mhz CL5 Dual Channel Kit - Someone told me buying the 4 gigs is really worth it nowdays.
  • CPU Cooler: HDT -S1284/Scythe Mugen/AC 7 Pro.
  • DVD Burner: Samsung SHS202J⁄BEBE 20x (Dual Layer, Zwart) OEM - Don't know anything about these.
  • OS: Windows XP 64. Got it from my fathers company with discount.
  • MISC: 2x Cooler Master 120mm Silent Fan SI1 (R4-S2S-12AK-GP)

Getting very close, got a lot of help from you guys, I am very thankful.
 
Thinking of a CM690 again. I like the design, and it comes with 3 fans. Should be good enough, I suppose?
 
So the tradeoff between a dual core and quad core right now is speed, I suppose. The E8400 can reach 4Ghz while the Q6600 can reach around 3.6Ghz. Maybe you won't even notice the difference with that 400Mhz, assuming you were able to OC both chips anyhow; or maybe you would. One thing to note is how long you plan for the computer to last. I would think the quadcore would last you a bit longer, with future software being optimized to make use of multi-core CPUs; but then again, there's only so much you can do.

You're not losing out on much by switching from the P180/P182 to the RC-690/590. The CM case is a better buy, since its cheaper. IIRC, the RC-690 supports up to 7x 120mm fans.

What size monitor will you be gaming on? While the 8800GTX is only $10 more than the GTS 512MB, the GTS would be a better buy, IMO. Its a much newer GPU, runs cooler, OCs better, and has hardware decoding for HD video content... all while performing nearly as good as the GTX in games. So, if you're gaming on a 22" or smaller, the GTS would be a better buy, IMO.

Do you plan on OC'ing? All Core2 chips OC like crazy, and they're also much easier to OC than older CPUs. I don't think the AC Freezer 7 Pro is good enough for high OC's on either of your CPU choices. You'd be better off with something like a Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B, Ultima90 + Panaflo 92mm fan, ZEROtherm Nirvana, Xigmatek HDT-S1283, Thermalright Ultra 120eXtreme + Scythe S-Flex 120mm fan, or Noctua NH-U12P.

DDR2-800 is fine for a Q6600. If you go with the E8400 and want to OC past 3.6Ghz, you'll need a better cooler and some DDR2-1000 instead.

If you can, find some really cheap Yate Loon 120mm fans. The D12SL-12C, D12SL-12, and D12SM-12C are popular models. These things are typically under $4US.
 
The Cooler Master RC-590 and RC-690 are essentially the same design -- only the RC-590 has a more "transparent" mesh front (to mimic the "appeal" of the Antec 900, even though CM made it popular with its Centurion 5 cases) -- but the RC-590 is normally cheaper (at least, here in the US). So go with whichever case that you can find for less.

(enginurd already has the important things covered, which I agree with... ;) )
 
Well, thank you for those great replies. This is something I can work with :)
Yes, the tradeoff was the speed. I've heard great things about the e8400, and because it was quite a bit newer than the Q6600 I thought it would be marginally better. It is true that the quadcore might be the future though. Before you can tell me more about it, I will have to answer the overclocking question. I do not know how to overclock, at the moment of speaking. I am willing to learn how to do it though. The only downside seems that the hardwarelifetime gets decreased. I think that if the risks are low I am going to overclock a bit. 3,6Ghz seems like a nice amount to me, although 3,2 or something like that for a Q6600 is good enough for me too.
The size of the monitor will probably be a 22 inch widescreen. (Samsung 226BW, probably)
I don't know about the videocard. You do sound very convincing though, I have to say.
Looking at what you said about the ram, makes me lean towards the Q6600. I'm not planning on buying 1000mhz ram.

Your reply (enginurd), combined with the information Tiraides supplies, makes me lean towards the CM590.

Thanks a lot for these replies. I am seriously considering a Q6600, a 8800GTS 512, a CM590 and a HX520W now. If you could comment on that even more, that would be great.
 
A 3.0-3.2Ghz OC on the Q6600 (3.6-3.8Ghz OC on the E8400) would typically require less voltage (probably even stock), and therefore less heat. That, in turn, will not decrease the lifetime of the chip. OC'ing done correctly shouldn't cause premature hardware failure. Things start to fail prematurely when pushing past limits or when ESD is involved. The absolute max temp for the CPU is around 85°C, but to be safe, keep it under 65°C and never give it more than 1.5v. The closer you stick to stock voltage, the better.

Here's some comparison and review links regarding the vidcards, to help you decide:
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=474&card2=548
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3175&p=8
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQzMSw1LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

Either PSU would be fine for your setup. The 520W is modular, which makes cable management a bit easier, but at a price premium.
 
enginurd said:
Do you plan on OC'ing? All Core2 chips OC like crazy, and they're also much easier to OC than older CPUs. I don't think the AC Freezer 7 Pro is good enough for high OC's on either of your CPU choices. You'd be better off with something like a Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B, Ultima90 + Panaflo 92mm fan, ZEROtherm Nirvana, Xigmatek HDT-S1283, Thermalright Ultra 120eXtreme + Scythe S-Flex 120mm fan, or Noctua NH-U12P.

If you can, find some really cheap Yate Loon 120mm fans. The D12SL-12C, D12SL-12, and D12SM-12C are popular models. These things are typically under $4US.
Click to expand...

This section really gives me something to think. So I should drop the Freezer 7 pro, get a different CPU cooler, and some extra casefans. I am taking the CM590 for 98% sure now, which can accomodate up to 8 12cm fans. I have read something about having to buy extra 4-in-3 Device Modules though, which I don't like. If you know how many fans can be placed inside without having to buy extra device modules, please tell me. Also, I am wondering if you could recommend a CPU cooler and some casefans from the following website:
http://www.cool-prices.nl/Producten/Componenten/Cooling en Casemodding
It's a dutch site, but don't be afraid. All the names are in english, apart from the colours. Black is zwart, Blue is blauw, green is groen, red is rood. If you could look at it for me, I would be a very happy person.
 
I agree with enginurd that the 512MB 8800GTS (don't get the 320MB or the 640MB models) is a better buy over the 8800GTX. Personally, the onboard video encoding/decoding functions make it the better deal. (Then again, in the US, the GTX still has a considerable price premium over the GTS.)

But your setup, save for the CPU cooler (get one that enginurd recommended), is fine.
 
I have read the reviews, they were informative but not enough to make up my mind. Wouldn't the GTX be able to run more of the new games that will come in the next few years than the GTS? What does the GTS have that is so amazing that the GTX does not? Is that higher shaderclock going to cut it? I'm just not sure.
Edit: I've done some searchwork. I can't find a GTS 512 cheaper than 199,95 with shipping and handling included. This is the exact same price as the GTX. It's very strange, you seem to pay 189 dollars for one, we pay 189 euro's.

Edit number 2:
Will Recom 12025B Black Blower 12cm Fan Black cut it as casefans?
 
I don't know why the EU screw you guys with the prices. The 8800GTX is still the better card in regards to gaming -- and the price difference isn't enough for me to justify the 8800GTS over the GTX.

All you really "need" is four case fans for your case: two for the front intake (one, IIRC, will be cooling the HDD cage in the RC-590), one for the rear exhaust, and one for either the side intake or the top exhaust. (If you really wanted to, you could buy a fifth fan to cover both bases.) Since the cool-prices.nl site doesn't have the case fans that I'd normally recommend, keep the stock case fans and get the CM silent fans you referenced earlier as needed. What many of us here consider good is a fan that pushes around/over 40 CFM of air at under 30dBA of noise. (Then again, what's considered "good" and "quiet" are highly subjective, so go with what you feel works for you.)

As for the CPU cooler... cool-prices.nl has a lot of "options" that I don't know much about. (The ones that we normally recommend -- the ones that enginurd mentioned earlier -- are ones that have been vetted by us here as "good." Again, "good" is subjective, buy we try not to recommend parts that give others a lot of problems.) We don't care much for Zalman CPU coolers since the ones that we normally recommend perform just as well (if not better), but they're (normally) quieter and cheaper. However, if you're not planning a major overclock (beyond 3.2GHz), you could get away with using the AC Freezer 7 Pro.
 
Well, I am going to ask another very stupid question.
Are all casefans capable of being both an intake and an exhaust fan? Also, I've been told you can't just put 2 fans in the front of the CM590. You would have to buy some module or something, to put it on. Can you confirm this?
I'm afraid coolprices only has 2 more of those Silent Fans, would a total of 4 be enough?
Also, are you sure that there are no quality CPU coolers in that store? I'm not settling for the AC 7, after what I've heard from you guys :p
 
I can't seem to navigate the site to show me all their cpu coolers. Could you link such a page for me? :eek:

If you don't plan on taking advantage of the hardware HD video encoding/decoding features of the GTS, then get the GTX. I just hate recommending such an old part when something much newer performs nearly as good for less... but in your case, its not for less money, so bleh.

So that CM RC-590 supports 6x 12cm fans without an extra HDD module. The case already comes with two, so two more for the top and side (1 each) would be fine.
 
Fans only blow air in one direction, so you have to choose to make each fan either an intake fan (blow air into the case) or an exhaust fan (blow air out of the case).

I was wrong; based on the pictures, the only place for the front-mounted fan is on the removable hard drive cage. So, I guess, four fans would be enough: one each for the front (intake), rear (exhaust), side (intake) and top (exhaust). You don't need to replace all of your stock fans with silent ones, though; just get enough extra fans so you have a total of four inside the case. (I can't think of any accessory at this time that would allow you to add a second front-mounted fan.)

The Zalman CPUs would be the closest "quality" cooler's that I'd recommend... if you don't mind their noise at high speeds. I can't speak on the Scythe CPU coolers because the only ones we recommend here are the Ninja Plus Rev.b (full-size model) and the Ninja Mini (for SFF builds).
 
Ok, great. That solves almost everything.
I'm ashamed of having to show you what apears to be such a bad store, I suppose that I could go to a local store and ask them if they have any good CPU coolers. (One of the coolers that you guys recommended)

You speak of a Scythe Ninja Mini, for SFF builds. Now, I don't know what an SFF build is, and I am about to go to bed so I can't look it up. I'll just hope that my build is an SFF build, since it apears that they do sell a Scythe Ninja Mini Heatpipe For Intel and AMD.(SCMNJ-1000) Dutch site, English specs

Also, Engi, http://www.cool-prices.nl/Producten/Componenten/Cooling en Casemodding shows all CPU coolers they have. They devide it in several sections, e.g. CPU Cooling Antec and things like that. I just noticed that one is called CPU cooling overig, overig means other brands here.

Thanks a lot so far, once again!
 
It's not that is a bad store, per se, but it has a large selection of parts that I haven't heard much about. I'm not going to recommend stuff that hasn't passed muster here, so I'm not even going to try. (See if you could do some research on other components tomorrow.)

SFF stands for small form factor, which is the term used for computers that take up a smaller footprint than a regular ATX motherboard and case. (An example of a SFF computer would be the Shuttle line of PCs.) The reason why I'm not going to recommend the Scythe Ninja Mini is that I don't know how well that HSF cools compared to the full-sized Ninja Plus Rev.b. (The Ninja Mini uses an 80mm fan for cooling, so it doesn't cool as well as something that uses a 92mm or 120mm fan.)
 
Looking good except the HD. I personally prefer WD or Seagate. Video card: GTX isnt really worth it. Get a GTS 512 instead if not something even cheaper/slower.

For your areas of concern, a case is of course your own personal preference. I like the simplicity of my Lian Li (in sig) but they can get pricey. Corsair PSU is a safe move. You might even be able to get away with the 450W - check that calculator on their site.
 
Right, I'll just buy the CPU cooler at a local store. :)
I've heard some really great things about this HD, so I think I'm going to keep it. I would buy a GTS, but I can't justify buying a card that is not as good as a GTX for the exact same price of a GTX. Just doesn't seem right.
Lian Li's are too expensive and are very hard to get here in holland. Strange, because they do look good. I'm not going to get a 450W PSU though, I want some headroom for future improvements.

Well, this gets me a lot closer to ending my build. Almost everything is certain as far as I am concerned, except for the Q6600 or the E8400, the GTX and a CPU cooler. Great!
 
If you could recommend some more CPU coolers, that would be cool. I've looked up the CPU coolers you named (Not the ones that were XX + XX, I didn't understand that.) and only 1 of them is being sold in The Netherlands, for a price of 60 euro's! Can't be right, right?
That was the Noctua NH-U12P, by the way.
 
Problem! The GA P35 mobo has run out of stock, and they are not getting any new ones.
I know nothing about Mobo's, but I suppose that the MSI P35 NEO-FI, P35 (ATX, Sound, LAN, SATA II, RAID, 1394) and the Asus P5K SE, P35 (ATX, Sound, LAN, SATA II) are equal to the GA P35. I really need some help on this! Also, something I don't know. I suppose that a PC doesn't have a build in Wlan, right? Would something like a Sweex Wireless Lan Usb 2.0 Adapter 54 Mbps be good enough for a personal Internet connection?
Also, how is the Samsung Syncmaster 226BW (22", wide, 2ms (GtoG), D-Sub⁄DVI-D, Black) as a monitor?
 
Yes, the Noctua NH-U12P is expensive in the US as well (here, it's around $60USD). But it's considered to be one of the better (if not the best) CPU coolers around.

The "XX + XX" means that you should buy the CPU heatsink plus the recommended fan. However, looking at the site you referenced earlier, you aren't going to find the same fans that we can here in the US.

Which features do you need on the motherboard? More SATA ports? Better OC options? RAID? You need to figure out which features you want and find a motherboard that has most of those features available. If you don't have the money, get a cheaper board... but know that you won't have that many features to begin with. Make sure that the motherboard uses the Intel P35 chipset.

The Samsung 226BW is good for games, but it's horrible for accurate color reproduction (e.g., Photoshop). That's due to the TN panel that it uses. However, for everyday/multitasking use, it's a good monitor.

The difference (performance-wise in games) between the GTS and the GTX are less than 10% based on the game/benchmark. If gaming is your main priority, go for the GTX (and the E8400); but if you're more of a multitasker, I recommend the GTS (and the Q6600).
 
Yah, so if u plan to watch/record (decode/encode) HD movies, get the GTS 512MB.

The Noctua is good. Another good one is the Tuniq Tower (oldie but goodie). If you cant find any of the others I listed, then just get the Zalman CNPS 9700. We dont' usually recommend it only because of its price here in the US. Its typically the same price as the better coolers, so its a waste here... but if its your only choice, its not a bad cooler if priced right.

I havent heard much of the Neo-FI. We usually recommend the Neo2-FR, but the site doesnt have it. Though, they do have the Neo2-FIR, which just adds Firewire to the Neo2-FR. I'd suggest the P5K SE over the other MSI Neo-XX boards. The Asus P5K-E WiFi comes with onboard wireless (WLAN), btw.
 
Alright, Looks like it's going to be the P5K SE. 38 euro's for WLAN is pricey, I can get equal quality for less in a shop.
I'm still not done thinking. How hard would it be to OC a Q6600 to around 3,4 Ghz? Will it be doable with the Zalman 9700? It only just came to my attention, by the way, that it is also quite expensive, doh!
Since the e8400 can't even reach it's full potential of 4 Ghz on air with this ram, I am leaning towards the Q6600.
About the 8800GTS 512. Would that also be a better future investment? If so, that could make me pick it. But as it looks right now, I can't justify buying something that performs less good for the same price.
 
Mh, I might be able to get a Xigmatek HDT-S1283. I suppose that's quite nice, right?
Edit: Just something that I thought of.. Will all these CPU coolers fit, with 4 fans in the CM 590?
 
I've been all over this website with you, dude.

Here's my experience, take it or leave it.
I,ve overclocked a Q6600 with an ArcticCooling Freezer Pro 7 to 3.1GHz just fine.
The temps were at or about 45C which is fabulous for that cooler. The AC is quiet and cheap and does a good job. Unless you can get better for cheaper,use it.
I like my Q6600, find anything right now that can tax it.
Its bulletproof for a long good while and the price is going down every day. Still the best price-performance you can find.
Buy the GTX and stop waffeling. Its been the best video card out here for 18 months and there isnt anything now or coming that can beat it, period. Especially with the recent price drops. Here at the [H] you will see over and over again, if you have 8800 GTXs right now there is no compelling reason to upgrade.
Buy a case and get over it.
Buy 120mm fans that blow at least 60-70 CFM, cheap and good = Yate Loon medium speed,about 7 bucks. Fans can blow or suck depending on which way you face them. There is a little arrow on the frame that points in the direction the air blows. When you buy them, make sure you know where you are going to plug them in, ie molex or adapters on the MB, Yate Loons are usually sent to you with the connectors you specify.
Buy the ASUS motherboard.
Buy good 800 Mhz memory thats cheap, Corsair XMS is rock solid stable memory.
 
And I very much appreciate your clear opinion. It helps, really. With your temps that low, I suppose I could get even a bit higher on the Q6600, right? Not that I think it's needed, anyway..
 
No problem.
Yes, with a good MB you could no doubt OC higher. My board just isnt good for any more and that's all I can get. I converted to water a while ago.
You may be able to find a better HSF than the FP7, but not at it's price point.
The Ximatek HSF looks just like it, it's a bit cheaper and may be a good alternative if you can find one. Alternately, if you are gunning for high OCs, the FP7 is not the best choice, there are others out there that are better; no doubt.
Remember, your CPU will never run as hot in ordinary use as it does under stress with Prime95 or Orthos. When I run Orthos on all 4 cores, my temps go up to the high 50s, but in gaming rarely go over 40C; thats what you will be doing every day, not running benchmarks.
 
Removed original post for not being relevant anymore.
Now, to give this post a little use, how much of an overclock do you think can be reached with a Q6600 and a Scythe Mugen and how much do you think can be reached with a Arctic Cooler Freezer 7 pro?
 
Newegg does not ship overseas.
How is your Dad going to get the stuff from Newegg if you order it??? It needs an address to send it to.
I suppose if your Dad works for a company, he could make arrangements for the shipment to come to the company's address and he could then bring it back on the plane???

Another suggestion is.....do you know anybody in the US that would be close geographically to where your Dad is going, ship the stuff there and pick it up for the trip home????

How about customs on the way back???? A bunch of "computer parts" in the hold of the plane might just raise suspicion thses days.:eek:
 
Too bad they don't. My father could take it, but he would rather not, after talking about it.

How is the Scythe Mugen Infinity SCINF-1000 as a CPU cooler? Someone said it's good, I don't know. You didn't mention it so far, so I suppose it sucks right?
 
Also! Something I only just came up with. I am planning on putting my case on a carpet (!!!!), does that give any big problems?
 
As it looks now, my decision would be:
Corsair HX520 PSU
CM 590 casing
8800GTX GPU
Q6600 CPU
??? CPU cooler.
If anyone could answer my two questions about the carpet and the Scythe mugen/Freezer 7 pro, I think I would be very close to buying the system.
A new question: The P5K SE board, it doesn't say anything about DDR3. Does it support videocards that use DDR3?
 
It doesnt matter what type of memory your video card has.
As far as the MB is concerned, you need to make sure you purchase memory that is compatable with the particular MB.
In this case the board supports DDR2
You'll want to read this:http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1705&l1=3&l2=11&l3=534&l4=0
and this:http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5K SE
learn everything about your motherboard before you buy it. That way if you run into trouble building the system, you'll at least know something about the MB beforehand.

Putting the computer on a carpeted floor is no big deal. If it was me, I'd find some scrap of hardwood flooring or even thin bricks to raise the case up a bit and aid in cooling the base, but if this case has no ventilation mesh in the bottom it won't matter at all.
 
The reviews that I read state that the Scythe Infinity/Mugen is a good HSF choice.

Though air filters would remove the amount of dust and debris coming from your fans, they pose two problems. One, the front of the RC-590 is a mesh-like material... so dust/debris will be entering your case regardless. Also, having the air filters on your fans reduces the amount of air that the fans could push.
 
How ignorant of me, I totally forgot about the mesh. It's a no-no in that case.
Right now, I think I'll actually get the Scythe Mugen, how far do you think it can get a Q6600?
After reading some threads again, I am starting to doubt again! Dammit! the E8400 really seems like a better option right now, since I'm a gamer and not a video editor. It's very annoying, I just can't decide.
 
Since I am probably placing my PC about 20 centimeters from a TV connection in the wall, I was thinking.. would it be possible to connect my PC to that and watch tv? I would probably need some extra hardware, right? I know nothing about that (what a suprise), what did come to mind was the Samsung Syncmaster 2032MW, a 20 inch monitor with inbuilt tv support. It's 5ms though, and 3000:1. Would it be good enough to game on?
 
So this connection from the wall, is it over the air signal or cable/satellite? Either way, you'll need a TV Tuner card, but your answer will determine which card you'd need. It sounds like that Samsung would be fine for gaming (and it has a built-in TV Tuner), but I havent read any reviews on it.
 
It is cable television. The monitor with the TV Tuner is quite a bit more expensive than the 226BW though, I'd say about 60 euro's. For a smaller screen with 3ms more response time, I might as well get a TV tuner for the 226BW, or is that going to be very expensive?
 
Second thought, I'll just get the 226BW with a TV-Tuner. Anything you can tell me about those? I've got a cable-television connection, coming out of the wall just next to me.
 
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