Building a Gaming PC... Part 2

Dang you never mentioned a montior, that eats up a ton of your budget. Sorry man a 500 gaming pc that includes a monitor isn't really gonna be a great gaming machine for very long. In light of this new info, I would suggest that you either:

A: try ebay to get a steal on some or a few pieces of this pc to save some dough, but quality will vary widely goin this route
OR
B: lower yourself into a last gen via chipset mobo and go with pc2700 or even pc2100 ram to save some cash. Goin pc2100 ram will also mean that you should probly end up with a 2400+ which is a decent chip, but not near what a 2500+ will do for you.
 
umm, i think with $500 for computer and moniter a 9800 pro is pretty much out of the picture. even if he does get it it will require reducing everything else in his system to the point of everything bottlenecking the video card. save money on the harddrive, maybe get a case at a local retailer to save the cost of shipping.
 
Well, when the ---- hits the fan, I gotta get money from more resources. I didn't wanna do this but I guess I'm gonna have to "borrow" some money from my Dad... damn.

Hehe, sorry for not tellin' ya about the monitor. Yea. I'm building a completely new system.

Facts: I'm 14. I live with my Mom; parents divorced. Got money from Saving Bonds and Garage Sale money... and... my own $75... my Dad is well, not rich but well-off (in my opinion) ... I don't spend much time with him so asking him for money is, uh, awkward.

Okay.

You didn't wanna hear that.

I'm sorry.

I might be able to do it with $500 although I'd have to go with the 9600 Pro but I really don't wanna do that. I still haven't decided on a processer yet and my total is already at $500 ($499 actually :p). I don't really wanna cut anything, everything is want I want and cheap, too. I live in a small town so there's no PC fixer-upper place around (they went outta business 'cause... it's a small town, go figure) to buy a case from. This sucks. Well, I guess I gotta dive into my Dad's wallet, hehe.

I'll keep you posted (haha, get it? Okay, that was lame.) on how it goes and maybe I can get this off the ground. Hopefully. Please.

:rolleyes:
 
Arti said:
Umm, I find it hard to believe that you've overclocked 9800 Pros safely with zero case fans. Actually, I can't even tell what you're saying since you basically just said: "I've overclocked 9800 Pros and they've never overheated, at least when they're not overclocked." So what do you really mean?
Click to expand...

i meant that i ran 9800pro's with no case fans at stock, and they did not overheat.

and overclocking is also possible, but to a limited extent with no case fans, but even then i didn damage any components when i attempted that.
 
Sorcerxo said:
Well, when the ---- hits the fan, I gotta get money from more resources. I didn't wanna do this but I guess I'm gonna have to "borrow" some money from my Dad... damn.

Hehe, sorry for not tellin' ya about the monitor. Yea. I'm building a completely new system.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well... It's not a preferred route but you can make the build in two stages. Change the MB to an nForce2 IGP (It has an integrated graphics card) and drop the video card. This will save you some cash on the front end allowing you to save up for a nice vid card (Christmas present maybe?). But since it has an integrated vid card (GF4MX400 I believe), it'll at least allow you to play older games without too much heartache. Then once you scrape up the cash, you can plop it down on 9800Pro... Or by that time on a 6800 vanilla.
 
Um, I still need a processer.

Can you guys help me out (forgeting the whole monitor thing)?

Thanks.
 
How much money do you have left? The 2500+ Barton retail for $90 is still your best bet IMO.
 
Damn, I just went onto Newegg.com and I'm already at $500 with Monitor and the S&H alone is $47.19 so I'm at $550. Man, that S&H screwed me. 2500+ Barton? Anyothers want to throw me an opinoin?
 
Just buy an Emachines $399 special...with an AGP port. Complete system, then plug in a $185 9800pro...presto.
 
uwackme said:
Just buy an Emachines $399 special...with an AGP port. Complete system, then plug in a $185 9800pro...presto.
Click to expand...


It's actually not a terrible plan as long as you make sure that the AGP is there. eMachines randomly package models with no AGP and integrated graphics. Advantage here is you get a legal operating system. Not that I'm wondering how you are going to run your computer without adding in WindowsXP or anything. I just assumed you were a LinuxGAWD with no 'puter at the moment. :p
 
Well, I'm not gonna do that. Here's the deal: I'm gettin' an additional $200 from my Dad.

So, I'm at $550 without a processer and I need Windows XP... that I'm gonna buy on Ebay for $100. So, in total, I've got $660 to spend. $550 is spent up. So, I have to spend $100 on XP so that leaves me with $10 to spend on a processer. Sigh. Damnit, I wish this woulda worked. I'm gonna get $80 from... somewhere... and I'm gonna buy a Barton 2500+
 
Wow 400-500 to build a gameing system... my suggestion would be to purchase a xbox lol
 
$660 budget with a moniter that easily doable now.

Hint find a 17" moniter in a local compUSA or BestBuy. They always have them for around $100-120. (no shipping, just tax) $100+8% tax = $108
Sometimes you can get them with mail-in rebates even cheaper.

So I think you should be able to work it out.

Newegg has WinXp for like $90 usually too so why pay $100
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=37-102-141&DEPA=6 = $90 free shipping
 
Maybe you're better of saving to 90 bucks for windows xp
You can easily "FIND" a Copy somewhere,specially if u have cable/broadband inet,
you have a burner on your list



;) :D
 
My 2p worth:

1. Don't get less than a 17" monitor - get an ok one and it should last you years. They should be dirt cheap if you shop around. 15" is much to small to play games on.

2. Don't be disappointed at 'only' getting the 9600 graphics card. I've just moved up from a Geforce3 Ti500 with 64Mb (3 years old) to a 6800U and am a bit deflated. What you need to remember is that the PC has a HUGE back catalogue of quality games, far more than there are 'new' games that take advantage of new technology. In the UK you can pick up 3 games like Diablo, Half Life, Deus Ex etc for a tenner (for all three).

My old card ran a lot of graphically pretty games really well (with an 1800+ processor) until I got to Far Cry (which I played and completed with it, but wasn't too smooth) and Deus Ex 2. At this point I got the upgrade bug and spent a load of cash. Even Doom 3 would still run on my old card, though I doubt it would be too sweet.
 
Prepare for alot of reading.

I have $710 bucks after alot of negociating, and I think I did pretty well. I just bought Windows XP off Ebay for $60 bucks, so I'm happy. I got a 17'' monitor for $100, so I'm happy. I'm finally gonna get this project going, so I'm happy.

Now, this is my final list of items (or so I hope...) and if you see ANYTHING missing or anything serverly wrong about these items, well, post about it. And shut up abut the video card, I'm stickin' with the 9600 Pro, booya.

Linkworld ATX Tower Case (Beige/Silver) with 400W power supply ... $25.00
Optorite IDE/ATAPI 52X32X52 CD-RW Drive ... 26.00
Speeze "FalconRock" CPU Cooler for Socket A/ 370 ... 13.99
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive ... 63.00
Two Kingston ValueRAM 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-2700 ... 86.00
Encore 56K V.92 Internal PCI Fax Modem(NetoDragon) ... 5.99
PHILIPS 107E56 17" CRT Monitor ... 109.00
BIOSTAR "M7NCD PRO" nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU ... 55.00
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ "Barton", 333 FSB, 512K Cache Processor ... 79.00
Powercolor ATi Radeon 9600Pro Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP ... 124.00
Shipping & Handling my ass ... 49.18

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

$636.16 without tax...

Well, I think (noob talking here, remember that) I did pretty good for my first time. I'm buying everything off of Newegg.com because people like it and it's easy to buy all parts from one store/site/company...

Now, factor that Windows XP into the mix, and the total is $716.16.
Alot more what I expected but I didn't factor in the cost of shipping, monitor, and OS.
So, I'm over budget by 6 bucks, ... problem is the tax is gonna kill me. I hate the government.

Well, I'm eager to hear your feedbacks, about all parts except the video card...
:rolleyes:

I can finally take a deep breath now...

I fell better...

EDIT: Everything is retail but the Hard Drive, RAM and processer. I don't need any wires for the RAM and processer but what wires will I need for the Hard Drive? I forgot, there is a PC fixer place on the other side of town (pfft, other side... a mere 2 miles) so I'll check there for those wires... so can you tell me the exact wires I would need? Thanks.

And... is there ANYTHING ELSE I will require for me to put it together? In the retail versions, do they come with all the nuts and bolts and screws and tissues when I break somethin'?
 
The motherboard should come with IDE cables for your harddrive.
Every single one I've ever bought has... which is why I have a box full of them!!

Everything in there is nice... too bad you didnt have a moniter already
 
Sorcerxo, not too many major changes to the list so not a lot new to discuss, but there are a few more things.

First things first, if this is an entirely new build... You've left off a keyboard and mouse and if you are really looking to play games... speakers. We'll assume that you are going to use headphones for now, but you still need that KB and mouse. The cheapest I could find is:

KEYBOARD-2000 KB-558B/P Keyboard and Optical Mouse Combo PS/2 104keys -RETAIL http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=23-157-002&depa=0 for $16.05 with shipping or you could do this:

LinkWorld LM601-C2628 Keyboard Mouse and Speaker Combo Set PS/2 104keys -RETAIL http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=23-164-002&depa=0 and score the speakers along with it for $21.99 shipped

On the shipping and handling... Shop around a bit on NewEgg. They push products by offering free shipping on them. A lot of times you can get a better part for the same price because of the free shipping. Take for instance:

POWMAX 0808 Beige ATX Mid tower Case with 350W Power http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-145-046&depa=1

The case you have picked is$25 with $15.99 in shipping. The Powmax case above is $28 but with free shipping. Net savings = $12.99 The only down side is no case fan... You can always leave the side off if you overheat until you can afford a case fan or two.

I'm still not a giant fan of Biostar boards but the one you have picked looks like it has decent reviews. And good choice on bumping up to the Ultra 400, better choice. Looking at the packaging, the Biostar board comes with an IDE ribbon cable so you'll be fine there to hook up your hard drive.

On that Speeze cooler/OEM 2500+ combo, if you are dead set on buying an OEM CPU and aftermarket HSF then you have to get some thermal compound from somewhere. If I remember correctly, Newegg in the past has dropped a capsule of thermal compound into my boxes with OEM CPUs. I'm not sure if they still do since I normally just use the giant tube of AS5 that I've had for ages. This is pretty critical to the system, so you'll need to find some somewhere. Just FYI, the retail CPU comes with a sticky pad of thermal compound that makes it an "all in one" solution. Besides, going with the retail Barton will end up saving you $4.97 since it comes with the HSF and thermal compound and has free shipping.

As for Tax... Where are you from? Most states won't pay tax on internet purchases...

Ok, so let's see what I did:

Changed case and power supply: -$12.99
Added Keyboard and Mouse, and Speakers: +$16.05
Changed to retail CPU and dropped HSF: -$4.97

and you almost save enough for a latte ($1.91). :cool:


One last thing, many of us here no longer use 3.5" disk drives, but you may decide you need one later. You might need to include that in your purchase as well though I have left it out.
 
Thanks alot Rori, you've helped alot as others have as well!

Totally forgot KB and mouse and headphones... where'd I think I'd get them?... out of my ass?

Anyways, that Heatsick and fan is retail... so it comes with the glue stuff...

No tax, that's good.

Now, on that KB combo, it installs with a Floppy, which I am not including because of cost problems... will Windows XP install automatically?

I'm from Michigan, I don't shop online much only on eBay for a game or two...

Well, I guess my only question is about that KB... then I'll get some headphones...
 
Please ditch the falconrock cooler, its so noise and over here in europe speeze has gotten alot of bad talk for the bottom of the cooler not being flat but hollow, even to the point the middle of the proccesor isnt even touching the Heatsink, and that does lead to overheating and all sorts of problems , you dont wanna have on your first homebuild PC, hell i wouldnt even want to deal with,and thats after building pc's for myself, family and people i know/ask me to build 1 for over 6 years

Oh that would be a smelly speakerset and headphones, and not to comfortable getting them out too :eek:

Windows will install fine, its just extra buttons like volume,play and stop that dont work, but if you get windows running you can download the drivers off there so u dont need a floppy drive
(if the support for the keyboard is bad/missing and u cant find drivers,go to a matesa house
(1 who has a pc with a floppy) and just mail em to yourself.
 
Unbelieveable!

I just checked out my Cart on NewEgg (adding a pair of headsets) and it says on my motherboard:

"Insufficient quantity available"

Man, right when I thought things were goin' good and I was about to kick this thing off, somethin' always goes wrong. Uhg. Makes me mad.

Anyone know how long it takes for them to get a new shipment in?
 
Then i would go for another Nforce 2 mobo with only 1 stick of ram.
Ram is expensive now, wait for it to go down on price and buy another stick when you've got
some more cash.(DFI NF2 infinity for example, or another with a mcp-T southbridge, why??
because its onboard sound is much better,I could hear it even with a 3,99 speakerset)
BUT if u can live with not so good sound this is a possibility
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-152-024&depa=1

(Though i must say 256mb is the bare minimum, but i just cant find anything else to cut corners on)
 
Ok, so I looked at that Speeze HSF combo and yes there is TIM on the bottom so you are ok. Sad that even in the picture they chose to use the TIM is off-center and not on the copper core but I guess that's what you get for $14.

The keyboard and mouse will work directly with Windows XP. Some of the special function keys might not work until you can install drivers, but the basic functionality will be there.

I see that the Biostar is OoS. You could always go with the Chaintech http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-152-024&depa=1 for $1 more. No idea when they might get more of the Biostars in stock.

And on a purely personal rant... I love NewEgg but I swear they are running their server on a rebuilt Zenith 286. That's the slowest freakin server for a computer reseller ANYWHERE.


ps - Oh yah, don't think MI pays tax from the Egg.
 
lol, thank you for pointing that out for me, I must be blind... I didn't see it...

Ok, (noob talking again...) what's a TIM and what's off-center? Copper core? ...lol
 
Well, I thought by not going with the Retail version Heatsink and fan and going with a 14 dollar one, I would get more cooling...

Another question on cooling, on my case, it has the Power Supply fan and a lower rear fan, will that be enough?

If not, what can I do about it... there's no space for another fan to blow out/in...
 
I personaly think the stock HSF is better then the speeze 1,

Like this
A race engine in a car is faster then a stock 1, but if the race engine has a damaged piston is it still faster

AMD have been making some good solid coolers since the duron,also on a AMD boxed cpu u get 3 year warranty, on a "tray" one (tray means ->no HSF, like the 1 you want to get)
you only get 1 year,atleast over here in Europe.

U also say u dont wanna OC to much so the standard cooler is ok for now.

About the case not having room for more fans, that isnt TOO good for cooling but it will do
If u decide to overclock the system it will become a problem.
 
Well, the CPU runs at 1.8... I at least want it at 2Ghz... what's the highest OC until it gets unstable...

If I do OC it to 2GHz or more, would the stock HS and fan do it?

I know, I'm a pain with all these questions but... I WANNA LEARN! ...lol

EDIT: Take a look at the EPoX Nforce2... $58 bucks...

(not that I'm complaining...) That motherboard you reccamended looks great! But some people say there's no BIOS overclocking thinger in there...
 
2 ghz would be possibly,but you will get a little into the higher temperatures (50-55 degrees centigrade.

A maximum OC isnt possible to tell, it depends on so many things
(i have 2 AMD 2500 xp's 1 runs at 2100 max while the other in the same system runs at 2500 all day long, and to make mathers even more weird the first 1 can overclock higher on a Asus-V600 mobo, i can run it at 2190 on that mobo, and the other one doesnt even
go past stock, while it can do 2500 on the DFI nforce 2 mobo)

I hope the above made sense ,im not an American ,so my english isnt to good.


I just looked at Newegg, and if u mean this case
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-164-040&DEPA=1

It has room for 2 exhaust fans and if im looking correctly you can add a intakefan infront of the lower 3,5 inch HDD bay, i think i can even see a fan there already in this picture
http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage...40-14.JPG/11-164-040-19.jpg/11-164-040-20.jpg
 
Sorcerxo said:
Well, I thought by not going with the Retail version Heatsink and fan and going with a 14 dollar one, I would get more cooling...

Another question on cooling, on my case, it has the Power Supply fan and a lower rear fan, will that be enough?

If not, what can I do about it... there's no space for another fan to blow out/in...
Click to expand...

You won't necessarily get any better cooling out of that Speeze than the retail. The Volcano 7+ that BioHazard linked, yes it'll be better. But we are counting pennies and that costs almost $24. The reviews on that Speeze were all pretty good, but I didn't see anything there to make me think it'd be substantially better than the retail HSF.

If you are sticking with the Linkworld case, then yes it has a rear fan and that's all you'd need. If you are looking at the Powmax case it has space for two rear fans but ships with none. You probably don't NEED anything other than the PS fan, but more is generally better when it comes to fans. And both the Linkworld and the Powmax have a space for a front case fan as well.
 
Wow, fast and furious....

If you are looking to OC then the whole thing changes. OC = increased heat, increased heat = bad. If you are going to OC, then you have to find ways to get rid of the heat. With a retail 2500+ barton you might be able to push it to 2Ghz. All those massive OCs you are reading about are on mobile 2500's with quality HSFs and good RAM. With your setup, you *might* be able to get 2Ghz... no promises. And heat will rapidly become an issue for you with no case fans unless you just leave the side off of your case. I've got a friend who leaves the side off and points a box fan into his case. :D

Epox makes good boards. And if you are reading that there are no voltage adjustments in the Bios, trust me... you don't need to be messing with your Vcore anyway. Think smoke, think flames, think no more computer. If you are talking about multiplier adjustments, then you have another problem. A desktop 2500+ has a locked multiplier and can't be adjusted easily (I'm leaving out messing with the CPU traces, you don't need to be messing with that at this stage). The only way you are likely to OC is to bump the FSB up until it starts hanging up on you.
 
i would advice him to get 1 case fan,and put that in front of the hdd, and use the PSU fans as exhausts.

(A HDD crash is everyones worst nightmare. I know it is mine since i vaped my maxtor 80 gigger in my "at the time" fanless system, and lost some personal pictures of a deceased
family member.)

Maybe get just 1 stick of ram now, so u can afford a better cooler.
Like this:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=20-150-593&DEPA=1

Sure, with 1 stick u dont get dual channel, but on my pc's it doesnt even make a
differance that i can see in real life situations.

I can measure the differance with benchmarks tho, so that says something about their use i.e.E Zero,Zilch Nada

I must add to that, that im not a fan of kingston (Valueram) the 512 module i got (pc3200)
didnt even reach 205 mhz at loose settings, while my infineon 256x2,pc2700
do 2,2,2,2,5 (5 because i got a DFI mobo) at 230 stable as hell

I must say im getting smiles on my face while reading the newegg descriptions of things like memory
(Ultra low noise shielded pcb , it says about a memory stick LOL if your ram starts making noise it is time to start saving stuff to your HDD, as its about to go RIP
 
Crap, just realize I missed answering a couple of questions...

TIM is Thermal Interface Material. Think of it as a special tape that lets heat be transfered from your CPU core to your HSF efficiently. Higher end HSF application usually involves using a liquid thermal transfer compound like Arctic Silver.

That Falconrock uses a copper core (the round reddish thing you can see by looking at the bottom of the HSF in the picture) to wick heat away from the CPU core. It is wrapped in aluminum which doesn't transfer heat as fast, but sheds it more efficiently. High end HSFs are huge masses of copper (over 450g or better than a pound) while the cheapest HSFs are nothing but aluminum. By mixing the two, you get the efficiency of the copper pulling the heat off the core quickly and the cheapness of the aluminum to dissipate heat quickly. And you thought physics was useless... :p

By off center, I mean that if you notice the picture at NewEgg, the little square of TIM doesn't sit squarely on top of the round copper core. Look at the description above and you'll understand why that is bad. You really want the copper core of the HSF to sit squarely on top of the CPU core.
 
Ok, you both made me decide to forget about OC and stick with the 1.83 GHz it's already pushing. About that case, it comes with three fans, right? Ok, that's a good thing, but it's without a PS... and the case alone is $25.00 when I picked out a case with a 400W PS for the same price. Yes, it looks cooler, it runs cooler, but I only have so much money...

And how much are power supplies anyway? Probably out of my budget...
I'm looking on NewEgg right now... decent ones start at $25.00... that's an EXTRA $25.00... but (ah, my favorite word) it's either cooling or fried PC guts, correct? Uhg, this PC stuff...

Well, hmm... this one has dual fans in the PS... would that be super-efficent on cooling with that case you pointed out...? Rating: 4 out of 5 by 166:

Click here.

So, after all this mumbo-jumbo, with that case and with this PS (if okay-ed by you guys; I've come to trust you, lol) it's an extra $32.00 but, it has mega-cooling power, right?

Wait, nevermind about that PS, I'm reading that it runs hot, and the fans don't move the air around much... so forget about that...

Okay, since I'm searching my butt off, with a 400W PS be enough power?
 
Even a decent 350 watt ps will be enought for your system,

Even your original case, the linkworld, with ps was good enough, it just needed a intake fan to get in fresh air and cool the HDD.
Your system doesnt have a lot of powerhungry components, so wont need much power, and doesnt get as hot as a top of the range PC.
The casefan (infront of the HDD) isnt mandatory, but it gives me peace of mind that i suggested it to you.

Like i said, i build a couple of pc's everyweek for people, and NOT 1 goes out my door without a intake fan blowing over the HDD.

A 80 mm fan is only 10 bucks at most (decent quality, not super quality like pabst)
and because i run it at 7 vlt its near silent but keeps every hdd at under 35 degrees centigrade.

Look at it like this, if u vape a proc,buy a new 1, memory the same, vidcard the same,
but a HDD can hold information that is of value, be it $ or sentimental and U cant replace
that.
 
Check out this one: Click, click! Before it goes away!

Guess what: even more questions! (...what do ya know...)

With this case, the fans are blowing air out of the case. Wouldn't blowing air into the case be a better idea? If so, how would I reverse that so air is being pulled into the case?

If you guys like that PS up there, I'm gonna go along with this case and that PS.

On the case, if I wanted to add a front fan, what size of fan would I need, how much RPM's... or you could just point one out for me, lol, I'm so lazy. And how would I/what would I need to install it? With one rear fan, one side panel fan, one front fan, and a fan in the PS, do you think (dumb question coming up, look out) that would run a cool machine? 'Cause I don't want an problems... ...last thing I need is problems...
 
Like i said b4 , your original case with ps will do the job fine, if you just add a 10$ fan to it
(25,50 + 10 is cheaper than this PS alone,so just get it)

You're not quite correct about the fan direction thingy, if you let them all blow in , the hot air will just sit inside the case.

The keyword here is airdirection management(phew)

As u maybe know heat rises, so draw IN cold air from low/front, it rises (still relatively cold, just having cooled 1 HDD and is then sucked past the processor (absorbing its heat) by the PSU which blows the now hotter air out the back.

The side fan is usually set to take in air, but in my opinion its better to set it as a exhaust
(just unscrew and rotate) as it then takes hot air from around the vidcard and blows it outside
If it would blow inside you would blow the hot air( its already heated by the graphics card)
straight at the CPU, so your cooling your cpu with hot air.

For a intake case fan i would get this 1, as it has a low setting, which is just perfect for your use, the HDD doesnt need a tornado blowing past it, just some airflow, so that the air doesnt stall above the HDD , getting hotter & hotter.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-118-206&depa=0
 
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