Build Help $800

[xavierq]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Web development (intellij, visual studio), video streaming, light gaming, photoshop

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$800 before tax/shipping

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
US, New York City (can travel to Microcenter if needed)

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

case, motherboard, cpu, video card, ram, psu, hard drive

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

none

6) Will you be overclocking?

no

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

1920x1080, 21.5"

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Next weekend

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.

256+ SSD, 8gb ram, usb 3.0, dual monitor support. small form factor.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

Windows 8.1 64bit

 

[Dangman]

How long is the drive to Microcenter?

 

[xavierq]

It's a subway ride, then a train ride, then a bike ride. Call it two hours each way. Doable, but only worth it if there's some really great deal.

 

[coolpurplefan]

AsRock Fatal1ty H97 Performance motherboard $100
Intel i5-4690 CPU $215
Kingston 2x4GB RAM KHX18C10K2/8 $85
Seasonic S12II 520 watt PSU $60
CoolerMaster HAF 912 case $60
Pioneer Blu-ray burner BDR-209DBK $65
Western Digital 1TB HD $59

Computer without the video card for $644. All this needs is a CoolerMaster GeminII M4 processor cooler, some Nexus 120mm fans.

You could either use on-board video or buy a video card like the MSI GAMING N750Ti TF 2GD5/OC for $160. Or, you could buy a 256 GB SSD like the Crucial MX100 CT256MX100SSD1 for $110.

NOTE: The RAM is set at 1600MHz and 1.5V.

 

[Dangman]

It's a subway ride, then a train ride, then a bike ride. Call it two hours each way. Doable, but only worth it if there's some really great deal.

Not really worth it then.

Here's what I recommend then:
$197 - Intel Core i5-4570 CPU
$88 - ASRock H87M Pro4 Intel H87 mATX Motherboard
$76 - Kingston HyperX Blu KHX1600C10D3B1/8G 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$125 - Sapphire R7 260X 2GB PCI-E Video Card
$135 - Samsung 840 Evo Series 250GB SSD
$53 - Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$21 - Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD Burner
$60 - XFX TS Series XFX TS 550W PSU
$50 - Coolermaster N200 NSE-200-KKN1 mATX Case
---
Total: $805 shipped

In case you're wondering about the differences between my recommendations and coolpurplefan's:
- His CPU and mobo is technically newer and slight faster but not worth the higher costs especially considering that you're not overclocking and the fact that the H97/Z97 motherboards were just released. As such, we don't have a clear idea of whether or not they'll be reliable long-term.

- Cheaper, smaller, and slightly more up-to-date case since the N200 has front-panel USB 3.0 whereas the HAF 912 does not. Key word is smaller though. Oddly enough if you want to get smaller than the N200, it's going to cost more money.

- Easier RAM upgrade path: If you go for a full 32GB of RAM later on, no need to replace any RAM. Plus my recommended RAM is cheaper too. No, you won't notice a difference between DDR3 1866 and DDR3 1600 unless you run benchmarks all day long

- You didn't mention any plans for blu-ray so not sure why coolpurplefan included a blu-ray burner. I went with a cheap DVD burner instead

- I was able to fit in both a SSD and a video card as a result of the above changes. PLus the Samsung SSD is slighty faster and more reputable than the Crucial MX100 (also newly released) and the R7 260X is faster than the GTX 750 TI in games. Granted it does use more power but the performance increase and therefore the price to performance ratio justifies the R7 260X over the GTX 750 Ti IMO.

- That XFX PSU is a slightly newer Seasonic.

 

[xavierq]

Cool, thanks for explaining the difference in the recommendations. Definitely like having the SSD and discrete card.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Looking at Dangman's recommendations...
The CPU is slower. I'd go with the fastest for a reasonable price.
The motherboard has the Realtek ALC892 audio which is a step below the Realtek ALC1150. The chipset also is compatible with the regular Haswell processors but it may be necessary to flash the BIOS in order to use the Haswell refresh chips. (The 4670 is regular Haswell, 4690 is the refresh.) NOTE: It's not guaranteed you need to flash the BIOS to use a Haswell refresh although I'd prefer the newer H97 instead of the H87.*
For the RAM, I'd choose two matched 4GB sticks of RAM instead of one 8GB stick of RAM. I read dual-channel is faster.
From an article I saw on over 19 thousand hard drives, Western Digital has a lower failure rate than Seagate.
Some Blu-ray burners can burn 25GB discs with no errors. (I usually write my DVDs at half the rated speed of the discs to avoid errors. I haven't completed my build with a Blu-ray burner yet so I can't give a user comment yet.)
The higher power draw of the R7 may cost more in electricity in the long run. Nvidia video cards can apparently do better when rendering video. It depends on what you do.

*Disclaimer: To anyone who will do like my former neighbor and take all my comments in a serious manner. I bought an AsRock H87 Performance motherboard. I didn't buy the CPU yet but I intend to "take a chance" and buy the i5-4690. I intend to flash the BIOS right away though. I wouldn't risk it though if it was a K refresh model. Someone on anandtech said you could use a Haswell refresh on an 8 series motherboard except this related to non-K models.

EDIT: Whoops, I forgot to mention though that if you choose a micro ATX case, you need to choose a micro ATX motherboard. It wouldn't take a regular ATX mobo.

 

[tiraides]

The CPU is slower. I'd go with the fastest for a reasonable price.

The speed difference is only noticeable in head-to-head comparisons with identical setups. For someone coming from, say, a Core 2 Duo, the i5-4570 will be notably faster. (Hell, either Socket 1150 processor is faster in gaming than a "similar" AMD-based setup.)

And while the i5-4690 is around $15 more expensive than the i5-4570, when you combine all of the savings from Dangman's build (compared to yours), you can fit in extra items like the Samsung 840 EVO SSD. In this case, with regards to cost savings, every little bit helps.

The motherboard has the Realtek ALC892 audio which is a step below the Realtek ALC1150.

If the OP has a problem with the onboard audio, he could always buy a dedicated sound card later on.

The chipset also is compatible with the regular Haswell processors but it may be necessary to flash the BIOS in order to use the Haswell refresh chips. (The 4670 is regular Haswell, 4690 is the refresh.) NOTE: It's not guaranteed you need to flash the BIOS to use a Haswell refresh although I'd prefer the newer H97 instead of the H87.

It's safer to assume that you won't get a newer motherboard -- especially from an online retailer with a large warehouse -- with a current BIOS/UEFI version. If the OP goes with an i5-4570, however, that becomes a moot point.

For the RAM, I'd choose two matched 4GB sticks of RAM instead of one 8GB stick of RAM. I read dual-channel is faster.

The performance difference between one 8GB stick and two 4GB sticks is noticeable in synthetic benchmarks. Most users don't see any difference in everyday activities.

From an article I saw on over 19 thousand hard drives, Western Digital has a lower failure rate than Seagate.

You're talking about the Backblaze study. The problem with that study is that it's based on the company's experiences, and we don't buy hard drives in the same manner (or volume) as Backblaze.

I'm not going to argue about Seagate's reliability versus, say, Western Digital's. All HDDs manufacturers have a failure rate that's greater than zero and they each have their share of fans and critics. Cost-wise, Seagate is currently a bit cheaper than Western Digital, but the difference is only one or two dollars at most.

If you're really concerned about your data, you need a backup plan and (ideally, at least) three different ways to store your most important data.

Some Blu-ray burners can burn 25GB discs with no errors. (I usually write my DVDs at half the rated speed of the discs to avoid errors. I haven't completed my build with a Blu-ray burner yet so I can't give a user comment yet.)

Many people have no desire to use Blu-ray as a storage medium. In this case, the OP never asked for it. Going with a DVD burner over a Blu-ray burner is an easy way to save some money on the build.

The higher power draw of the R7 may cost more in electricity in the long run. Nvidia video cards can apparently do better when rendering video. It depends on what you do.

The R7 260X doesn't use power the same way that a high-end card like the R9 290X would. Plus, at this moment, we don't know whether or not the OP could use GPU accelerations for his most important tasks.

Whoops, I forgot to mention though that if you choose a micro ATX case, you need to choose a micro ATX motherboard. It wouldn't take a regular ATX mobo.

Dangman took care of things with his build.

 

[Dangman]

What Tiraides said +1

 

[coolpurplefan]

The speed difference is only noticeable in head-to-head comparisons with identical setups. For someone coming from, say, a Core 2 Duo, the i5-4570 will be notably faster. (Hell, either Socket 1150 processor is faster in gaming than a "similar" AMD-based setup.)

And while the i5-4690 is around $15 more expensive than the i5-4570, when you combine all of the savings from Dangman's build (compared to yours), you can fit in extra items like the Samsung 840 EVO SSD. In this case, with regards to cost savings, every little bit helps.

<A $15 difference for 300MHz to me is worth it in the long run.

If the OP has a problem with the onboard audio, he could always buy a dedicated sound card later on.

<I read Realtek audio is more compatible. If the Realtek ALC1150 really is as good as people say, the OP wouldn't need a sound card. Plus, I read Intel LAN is compatible and superior as well. (I'm talking about either the AsRock H87 or H97 Performance mobo.)

It's safer to assume that you won't get a newer motherboard -- especially from an online retailer with a large warehouse -- with a current BIOS/UEFI version. If the OP goes with an i5-4570, however, that becomes a moot point.

<The newer H97 chipset from what I know can use the new security features of the Haswell refresh CPUs.

The performance difference between one 8GB stick and two 4GB sticks is noticeable in synthetic benchmarks. Most users don't see any difference in everyday activities.

<I read a comment from someone saying they could tell a real difference from using dual-channel RAM.

You're talking about the Backblaze study. The problem with that study is that it's based on the company's experiences, and we don't buy hard drives in the same manner (or volume) as Backblaze.

I'm not going to argue about Seagate's reliability versus, say, Western Digital's. All HDDs manufacturers have a failure rate that's greater than zero and they each have their share of fans and critics. Cost-wise, Seagate is currently a bit cheaper than Western Digital, but the difference is only one or two dollars at most.

If you're really concerned about your data, you need a backup plan and (ideally, at least) three different ways to store your most important data.

<Although it's debatable, it was still on a large number of drives. The delivery may make a difference which is why I'd prefer a HD from a place like Newegg (with their bubble packaging).

Many people have no desire to use Blu-ray as a storage medium. In this case, the OP never asked for it. Going with a DVD burner over a Blu-ray burner is an easy way to save some money on the build.

<Would you prefer saving on one 25GB disc or six DVDs?

The R7 260X doesn't use power the same way that a high-end card like the R9 290X would. Plus, at this moment, we don't know whether or not the OP could use GPU accelerations for his most important tasks.

<The last time I looked at some benchmarks, the differences I saw were pretty significant.

Dangman took care of things with his build.

<I wanted to mention it in case it was not noticed.

 

[Dangman]

<A $15 difference for 300MHz to me is worth it in the long run.

$15 for a 5% performance increase and the inability to cram in both a SSD and a video card while being close to budget? Yeah no, not worth it from a price to performance standpoint.

<I read Realtek audio is more compatible. If the Realtek ALC1150 really is as good as people say, the OP wouldn't need a sound card. Plus, I read Intel LAN is compatible and superior as well. (I'm talking about either the AsRock H87 or H97 Performance mobo.)

More compatible with what? Let's get something clear: Generally, no onboard audio, no matter how much they dress it up, will be as good as many $30 and up sound cards out there. With that said, for the majority of people out there, onboard audio is just fine. You'd really only want a dedicated sound card if you have good headphones/speakers and are something of an audiophile.

As for the NIC, again, more compatible with what? You are right that Intel NICs are better. That's why I have one in my file server. But they're not that much better to warrant ditching either a SSD or a dedicated video card to get close to budget. It's a lot easier and cheaper to add a $30 Intel NIC should you need to later on than it it is to upgrade/add to a better video card or SSD.

<The newer H97 chipset from what I know can use the new security features of the Haswell refresh CPUs.

Yes but those security features alone aren't worth the extra money or the uncertainty about the quality of that particular motherboard later on.

<I read a comment from someone saying they could tell a real difference from using dual-channel RAM.

Placebo effect in that particular comment. I can tell you from my personal experience that you really wont' notice a difference with newer platforms.

<Would you prefer saving on one 25GB disc or six DVDs?.

Neither. I'd rather save on a flash drive or hard drive or NAS or cloud backup. Less likely for me to crush one by accident or have to deal with media degradation. Not to mention greater flexibility in terms of being able to access my data since a blu-ray drive isn't needed.

<The last time I looked at some benchmarks, the differences I saw were pretty significant.

Huh?

Assuming that the OP is using Adobe Photoshop CS6, there's really not much of a difference between Nvidia and AMD:
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CS6-GPU-Acceleration-161/

 

[coolpurplefan]

I'm trying to spend some time reading on economics so I don't have time to do much research into this right now. But I did do research when I wanted to buy my motherboard. I don't know why people want to argue with others comments here but I did see some tests showing a 100 watt difference UNDER LOAD with the AMD and Nvidia 750 video cards.

In any case, I'd like to mention to the Original Poster that I forgot to check if the Blu-ray burner has software included even though you could check the newegg review comments. Some say the software included isn't great anyway but some use the free ImgBurn software. You can also check which brand of discs and which size is more compatible in the comments.

Other things you could search is 8 series vs 9 series chipset differences and the security feature differences between Haswell and Haswell refresh.

If you're so inclined though, I bought a Tripp-Lite Omni VS1500 backup and prefer to shut down my computers while the backup is on during an electricity outage.

P.S. One thing I did notice I did find a little "tricky" in my research is sometimes they put 1.5V in the listings on newegg for the RAM but when you check the manufacturer's web site, it shows 1.65V at 1600MHz. The one I listed is the one you can run at 1.5V at 1600MHz (maximum stock speed) which I read is better for Haswell processors.

As a passing comment, when looking at the Western Digital hard drives, the 1TB blue model has 64MB cache just like the black model. Which pretty much means to me you wouldn't have a reason to pay more for the black. However, if you're looking at the blue model in 500GB, then the black model has a larger cache.

In regards to audio cards, sometimes people have issues with the drivers. That's partly why I said Realtek is more compatible.

Whatever, I could spend more time on this but like I said, now that you have some details to work with, you could do the rest of the research. And I still believe 300MHz is significant. Who wants to replace mobo/RAM/CPU earlier because you want to have that little boost? Upgrading right now may not be such a bad idea if DDR4 RAM comes out very expensive. Plus, if the rumors are correct, some of upcoming 6 and 8 core CPUs may use up to 140 watts. The i5-4690 uses much less.

 

[Dangman]

I don't know why people want to argue with others comments here

Because I'm trying to make sure the OP actually gets correct information and therefore can't ignore it when someone else is giving the OP very incorrect or half-full information?

but I did see some tests showing a 100 watt difference UNDER LOAD with the AMD and Nvidia 750 video cards..

Show us those tests then. I have four reputable sites showing that the wattage difference between the GTX 750 TI and the R7 260X is no more than 43W to 51W under full load:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7764/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-750-ti-and-gtx-750-review-maxwell/22
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2014/02/18/nvidia-geforce-gtx-750-ti-review/10
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_750_and_750_ti_review,5.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/geforce-gtx-750-ti_12.html#sect0

As a passing comment, when looking at the Western Digital hard drives, the 1TB blue model has 64MB cache just like the black model. Which pretty much means to me you wouldn't have a reason to pay more for the black. However, if you're looking at the blue model in 500GB, then the black model has a larger cache.

The caches really don't make that much of a difference unless you're doing constant massive file transfers nearly the entire time you're using the PC.

In regards to audio cards, sometimes people have issues with the drivers. That's partly why I said Realtek is more compatible.

Fair enough.

And I still believe 300MHz is significant. Who wants to replace mobo/RAM/CPU earlier because you want to have that little boost?

Anyone who knows better? Let's look at some numbers shall we? Let's use the old Core i5 3470 and the Core i5 3570K as an approximate example. Approximate because the clock difference is 200Mhz. Now look at the benchmarks:
http://anandtech.com/bench/product/702?vs=701

Gee, a 1 to 2FPS increase in most games. That is not a significant improvement.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Even though I don't agree with everything posted above, I'm done arguing with people who want to criticize everything you say and take everything you say seriously. The original poster can do the final research themselves.

 

[xavierq]

Is there a smaller case that this build could fit into? The image made it seem really tiny, but when I started checking the actual dimensions, the N200 is 17.5 x 7.9 x 14.9, which is about the size of the midtower I'm replacing, and the HAF 912 is even bigger. I'd be willing to drop the dvd-rom to make it happen, I shouldn't need it on the final build really.

 

[Dangman]

Is there a smaller case that this build could fit into? The image made it seem really tiny, but when I started checking the actual dimensions, the N200 is 17.5 x 7.9 x 14.9, which is about the size of the midtower I'm replacing, and the HAF 912 is even bigger. I'd be willing to drop the dvd-rom to make it happen, I shouldn't need it on the final build really.

If you're talking about actual depth of the case (i.e how long the case is), then there are shorter depth cases like these:
$75 - Silverstone PS07B mATX Case
$130 - Silverstone TJ08B-E mATX Case

But if you're also talking about smaller in terms of height and width as well, really no option for you that wouldn't involve more money and/or significantly lower case quality and cooling.