Build Avice 2.0

[Ws60]

Hello all and once again I'm here to pick your collective intelligence regarding a planned upgrade. Now the whole issue of upgrade funds took some work to resolve thanks to difficulties that kept popping up one after another, as they often do in life, during the past two months since my previous attempt at this. But in the end I was successful so despite some modest delays now I find myself back on track. Anyway considering the time that's passed and what I've been able to glean from these boards I felt it best to start from scratch rather then revive the old one. So let the games begin.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?
Primarily non-professional gaming with the typical secondary uses. Web browsing, movies, etc. I have no intentions of running SLI due to the problems it tends to have.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$1,200 USD including tax and shipping. Case and PSU have already been accounted for.

3) Which country do you live in?
Superior, WI, USA (Nearest Microcenter is down in the Twin cities so ~6 hours round trip^)

^I'm working on getting access to one earlier via a friend who lives near one and failing that in less then a month now either myself or a trusted associate will be in the area on unrelated business anyway. If either of those fall through I'll have to alter my component list.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
CPU
Motherboard
RAM
GPU*

*Considering I do plan on replacing this monitor come the spring when fund allow for it I may hold off on the GPU upgrade right now and just do them both together.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?
(New) NZXT Phantom 530
(New) Seasonic 760 XP2
(Used) Asus GTX 460 1G TOP (If I hold off on GPU upgrade)
(Used) Western Digital 1TB HDD WD1001FALS

6) Will you be overclocking?
Neutral. Still willing to consider it after research but also am concerned about eventual component service life.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
(Currently) Acer w203X, 1680x1050 @ 720p
(Planned) Higher quality display, currently looking at the BenQ BL2710PT as a potential candidate based on the information I've been able to find both here and elsewhere. However as stated it or another replacement will not be acquired until closer to the spring and thus is NOT factored into this stages budget.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Preferably by the end of the month.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Solid reliability and durability with the intention of using a discreet GPU. All other factors while nice are secondary.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
No, will be acquiring a non-OEM version of Windows 8.1 64-bit. Cost is factored into the given budget.

Current Parts list I'm considering assuming aforementioned arrangements regarding MC pan out:
$179 i5-4670K (Currently $35 cheaper then the non-k version)
$120 Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H (After current $60 combo savings when bundled with the i5-4670K, normally $180)
$140 (2x) Patriot Viper 3 DDR3 1600 8G RAM PV38G160C0RD (Cheaper per gigabyte then going with four smaller sticks to the overall tune of ~$30 bucks)
$560 Evga 780 Classified (While the Ti edition is shiny the bottom line is I can't justify its premium at the moment.)
$108 Windows 8.1 x64 retail

$1,108 Total with GPU (~$548 without the GPU)

So thoughts, comments, criticisms?

*Edit*
Of course I misspell the title and there's no way to edit it. Oh well nothing I can do about it now.

 

[Dangman]

What $60 savings are you seeing for the motherboard? Microcenter's catalog only lists a $30 discount on that mobo when you buy it with a 4670K.

Where are you getting that RAM from? In any case, not a fan of that RAM on account of its tall heatsinks which will interfere with a lot of decent air-coolers out there.

Also, your monitor upgrade is absolutely confirmed for Spring, correct? I ask because it would be a total waste of money for the video card if you have to push back the monitor upgrade past April of this year. If your monitor upgrade plans are still fuzzy in any way, just do the GPU and monitor upgrade at the same time.

 

[Ws60]

What $60 savings are you seeing for the motherboard? Microcenter's catalog only lists a $30 discount on that mobo when you buy it with a 4670K.

That is strange. Parts Picker has it listed at the full price of $180 before a $60 combo discount, but on the actual store page as you've mentioned its listed at $150 then the bundle discount. I wonder if for whatever reason its just lumping the price drop and the bundle savings into one thing. In any case I'm not wedded to the board choice and only tentatively picked it due to what I thought was a fairly good deal for a decent enthusiast level board.

Where are you getting that RAM from? In any case, not a fan of that RAM on account of its tall heatsinks which will interfere with a lot of decent air-coolers out there.

NCIX - US is where I was looking. Much like the board settled on them due to the decent price per gigabyte ratio and as far as I could tell a solid reputation.However the potential air cooler clearance issue is a valid point and I'm more then willing to look at alternatives if there's something else you'd recommend.

Also, your monitor upgrade is absolutely confirmed for Spring, correct? I ask because it would be a total waste of money for the video card if you have to push back the monitor upgrade past April of this year. If your monitor upgrade plans are still fuzzy in any way, just do the GPU and monitor upgrade at the same time.

Due to the upcoming next gen releases I assume? Its something I will be come hell or high water doing and odds are I may be able to do it even sooner then expected. However considering my current GPU/screen combo are still decently balanced I'm leaning towards holding off for now and just doing both at the same time. Its not like I'd really get anything out of it with my current display anyway.

 

[falkenbd]

Sounds like decent selection for the hardware - I'd recommend an SSD, and windows 7 instead of 8.1

 

[Ws60]

Sounds like decent selection for the hardware - I'd recommend an SSD, and windows 7 instead of 8.1

Sadly the only legit copies of Windows 7 I can find are OEM and I'd rather not have to deal with that again Also looked at SSD's and while nice I didn't feel they'd impact very much in terms of gaming so opted to omit one for the time being..

 

[Dangman]

That is strange. Parts Picker has it listed at the full price of $180 before a $60 combo discount, but on the actual store page as you've mentioned its listed at $150 then the bundle discount. I wonder if for whatever reason its just lumping the price drop and the bundle savings into one thing. In any case I'm not wedded to the board choice and only tentatively picked it due to what I thought was a fairly good deal for a decent enthusiast level board.

That site also automatically factors in MIR and such as well. So that could also explain part of the price difference. Considering that you have no solid plans on overclocking, you should be fine with something like the AsRock H87M Pro4 motherboard. If you do plan on overclocking, I'm a fan of the MSI Z87-G45 Gaming.

NCIX - US is where I was looking. Much like the board settled on them due to the decent price per gigabyte ratio and as far as I could tell a solid reputation.However the potential air cooler clearance issue is a valid point and I'm more then willing to look at alternatives if there's something else you'd recommend.

I recommend this RAM:
$64 - Kingston HyperX Blu KHX1600C10D3B1/8G 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

Due to the upcoming next gen releases I assume? Its something I will be come hell or high water doing and odds are I may be able to do it even sooner then expected. However considering my current GPU/screen combo are still decently balanced I'm leaning towards holding off for now and just doing both at the same time. Its not like I'd really get anything out of it with my current display anyway.

That and it's not quite as wasteful of your money to use a new GPU with a such small monitor.

Sadly the only legit copies of Windows 7 I can find are OEM and I'd rather not have to deal with that again Also looked at SSD's and while nice I didn't feel they'd impact very much in terms of gaming so opted to omit one for the time being..

I'd have to disagree with the non-inclusion of a SSD: It does make a difference in the overall responsiveness of the PC. Remember that the HDD will always be the slowest and biggest bottleneck in the performance of a PC. A SSD at least alleviates that limitation by quite a large margin. Anecdotally, I'm usually one of the first people to load into a new multiplayer round of BF4 due to my SSD. Before the SSD upgrade, I was generally towards the middle if not last to load in.

 

[Ws60]

That site also automatically factors in MIR and such as well. So that could also explain part of the price difference. Considering that you have no solid plans on overclocking, you should be fine with something like the AsRock H87M Pro4 motherboard. If you do plan on overclocking, I'm a fan of the MSI Z87-G45 Gaming.

If I go the cheap route I'd see an ~$30 dollar savings which in theory is a decent part of the way towards an SSD. Granted I might still go for something a bit higher end given you really can't upgrade a board very easily. Some of the ones I originally looked at were the Asus H87-PLUS and ASRock Z87 Extreme3 before, for the moment anyway, settling on the Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H due to price.

I recommend this RAM:
$64 - Kingston HyperX Blu KHX1600C10D3B1/8G 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

Low profile, sleek, and they're blue. I'm Sold.

That and it's not quite as wasteful of your money to use a new GPU with a such small monitor.

Yeah thats what I was thinking to start with so now its just confirmed. I just hope whatever Red and Green release by then was actually worth the wait..and hasn't been inflated massively in price by the miners.

I'd have to disagree with the non-inclusion of a SSD: It does make a difference in the overall responsiveness of the PC. Remember that the HDD will always be the slowest and biggest bottleneck in the performance of a PC. A SSD at least alleviates that limitation by quite a large margin. Anecdotally, I'm usually one of the first people to load into a new multiplayer round of BF4 due to my SSD. Before the SSD upgrade, I was generally towards the middle if not last to load in.

I recall you saying much the same thing last time and originally the list did have an SSD on it. However as time went on it fell victim, along with a few other misc things, to getting cut to bump up what I could spend on the GPU for reasons already mentioned. Considering thats going to be delayed now however I might see about wedging one in for the OS and anything else I'd like to boot quickly. How well do they tolerate gaming?

 

[Dangman]

If I go the cheap route I'd see an ~$30 dollar savings which in theory is a decent part of the way towards an SSD. Granted I might still go for something a bit higher end given you really can't upgrade a board very easily. Some of the ones I originally looked at were the Asus H87-PLUS and ASRock Z87 Extreme3 before, for the moment anyway, settling on the Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H due to price.

While true you can't upgrade a motherboard very easily, how often do you actually need to upgrade a motherboard but without having to upgrade the CPU?

While yes, the UD4H does come out to around $130 with the combo deal, I don't see a good reason for you to get that mobo when you can get the solid Asus Z87-A for $95 from Microcenter with that CPU combo deal:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/414761/Z87-A_Socket_LGA_1150_ATX_Intel__Motherboard#

HardOCP review here:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/06/03/asus_z87a_lga_1150_motherboard_review/

Again, you haven't mentioned a single item where the higher costs of the UD4H is justified over the Asus Z87-A. Hell even the Z87-A is a bit overkill considering what you have said so far.

I recall you saying much the same thing last time and originally the list did have an SSD on it. However as time went on it fell victim, along with a few other misc things, to getting cut to bump up what I could spend on the GPU for reasons already mentioned. Considering thats going to be delayed now however I might see about wedging one in for the OS and anything else I'd like to boot quickly. How well do they tolerate gaming?

Very well. SSDs are very solid these days, a far cry from just 3 years ago.

 

[Ws60]

While true you can't upgrade a motherboard very easily, how often do you actually need to upgrade a motherboard but without having to upgrade the CPU?

While yes, the UD4H does come out to around $130 with the combo deal, I don't see a good reason for you to get that mobo when you can get the solid Asus Z87-A for $95 from Microcenter with that CPU combo deal:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/414761/Z87-A_Socket_LGA_1150_ATX_Intel__Motherboard#

HardOCP review here:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/06/03/asus_z87a_lga_1150_motherboard_review/

Again, you haven't mentioned a single item where the higher costs of the UD4H is justified over the Asus Z87-A. Hell even the Z87-A is a bit overkill considering what you have said so far.

Thats likely what I'll end up going with all things considered as the price is right and I barely used most of the "fancy features" my current board has. I was more showing what I had looked at in the past or at least that was the intention.

*Edit*

Hmm, according to this MC is currently out of stock yet when I check the sellers website its not. Looks like I have to do a manual price override for Parts Picker.

Very well. SSDs are very solid these days, a far cry from just 3 years ago.

Not bad. Assuming the primary purpose is a boot drive for the OS/other speed critical software any recommendations you can think of offhand?


On a side note I actually have a new question. Considering I tend to do a fair bit of voip both in and out of game would a separate sound card be worth it? I picked up a cheapish one a few years back as an experiment and while nice, at least for me, I never really noticed that much of a difference. But I wasn't sure how much of that was due to the headphones I tend to use, the fact it was like a $20-$30 card to start with or if there never would have been a significant difference in the first place. Also figures that as soon as I postpone the GPU upgrade the exact card comes on sale for ~$500 shipped. I actually laughed while reading the Hot Deals forum today.

 

[falkenbd]

I think the onboard sound cards are very good these days. I run 5.1 on a receiver and a stereo headset for voice simultaneous off of mine.

Also, lots of headsets for VOIP are USB these days, bypassing the sound card anyway.

 

[Ws60]

I think the onboard sound cards are very good these days. I run 5.1 on a receiver and a stereo headset for voice simultaneous off of mine.

Also, lots of headsets for VOIP are USB these days, bypassing the sound card anyway.

Good point. On a side note I did some math and purchasing the AsusZ87-A Dangman recommended bundled with the i5-4670k from MC has roughly a $75 dollar difference then buying them elsewhere shipping included. Considering the third party purchase fell through and I'd have to wait before getting down to the Twin Cities, much less chip in for gas, it makes me wonder if I might be better just eating the cost and buy them elsewhere. A few days or a week or two is one thing but I'd be looking at a little less then a month at this point for a combo that may not still be active and I do have some flex in the budget.

 

[Dangman]

Not bad. Assuming the primary purpose is a boot drive for the OS/other speed critical software any recommendations you can think of offhand?

I recommend this SSD at a minimum:
$83 - Samsung 840 Evo 120GB SSD

However, in terms of bang for the buck value, I would go with the 250GB version if possible:
$154 - Samsung 840 Evo Series 250GB SSD

Note that with SSDs, the larger they are, the faster they tend to be compared to their smaller brothers.

On a side note I actually have a new question. Considering I tend to do a fair bit of voip both in and out of game would a separate sound card be worth it? I picked up a cheapish one a few years back as an experiment and while nice, at least for me, I never really noticed that much of a difference. But I wasn't sure how much of that was due to the headphones I tend to use, the fact it was like a $20-$30 card to start with or if there never would have been a significant difference in the first place.

Probably not.

Good point. On a side note I did some math and purchasing the AsusZ87-A Dangman recommended bundled with the i5-4670k from MC has roughly a $75 dollar difference then buying them elsewhere shipping included. Considering the third party purchase fell through and I'd have to wait before getting down to the Twin Cities, much less chip in for gas, it makes me wonder if I might be better just eating the cost and buy them elsewhere. A few days or a week or two is one thing but I'd be looking at a little less then a month at this point for a combo that may not still be active and I do have some flex in the budget.

If you're already going to be in the Twin Cities area for a reason OTHER than Microcenter and can wait the month, then do so. Otherwise, go buy the parts online. I don't even recommend making a 45 minute trip to Microcenter let alone a six hour round trip for Microcenter.

With that said, I don't recommend getting the 4670K and Asus Z87-A at all since you have not stated that you plan on overclocking. The 4670K and the Asus Z87-A are really only worth buying if A) you're within a 40 minute drive of Microcenter or B) you're 100% likely to overclock. If you don't plan on overclocking, then I recommend the Core i5 4570 and the AsRock H87M Pro4 motherboard from Amazon.com.

 

[Ws60]

One last question. How decent is the stock i5 heatsink and, considering heavy gaming loads, would any of you recommend swapping it out? If so what would you suggest? I've seen more then a few references to a Hyper 212 EVO as a cheap sink upgrade however I'm not sure how it stacks up vs the stock cooler.

 

[Dangman]

One last question. How decent is the stock i5 heatsink and, considering heavy gaming loads, would any of you recommend swapping it out? If so what would you suggest? I've seen more then a few references to a Hyper 212 EVO as a cheap sink upgrade however I'm not sure how it stacks up vs the stock cooler.

It's largely dependent on your ambient temperatures. Assuming that your ambient temps are low, the stock HSF is good enough for high gaming loads. However, if you do have high ambient temps, then get a 3rd party HSF. The 212 Evo is significantly better than the stock HSF.

 

[Ws60]

It's largely dependent on your ambient temperatures. Assuming that your ambient temps are low, the stock HSF is good enough for high gaming loads. However, if you do have high ambient temps, then get a 3rd party HSF. The 212 Evo is significantly better than the stock HSF.

Hmm, thanks for the final bit of info. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.