Budget HTPC

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MrHood22

Supreme [H]ardness
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Aug 21, 2007
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I'm starting to look into building my first HTPC.

It will need to power a ~40" TV (haven't picked one out yet) to play movies from my QNap NAS with a few thousand media files.

I have a hard drive and a 380w Antec Earthwatts PSU and several 120mm fans.

I'm thinking a valid budget is ~$450.

I'm guessing a cheap dual core will be sufficient with 2-4gb of RAM and any cheap PCI-E capable mobo with good reviews. However, these are just speculations so correct me if i'm wrong. As far as GPU, i'm not sure what I need for that.

I have a GTX 260 in my gaming PC so if i'm going to need something near the power of my GTX 260 i'd rather just put that in the HTPC and upgrade my gaming PC. Same goes for my Soundblaster Audigy SE sound card.



I'm also looking into turning this PC into a game server (~16-24 slots) for a game of my choice. Part of me thinks it's a bad idea and will overload the computer but the other part of me thinks it shouldn't matter too much with the right parts because the HTPC will be a little CPU/RAM and primarily GPU where as the game server would be primarily CPU/RAM.

I'm thinking if I went the HTPC/Game server route i'd go Quad core and 8 gigs of RAM. The budget might be closer to $600 but i'm willing to spend more if necessary.

I'd like to have some suggestions for both scenarios. Thanks!



Edit:
To clarify what I will use this for...


I am thinking of going 1 of 2 ways.

1) HTPC - Movies (Thousands off of my NAS), Music (~21k off of my NAS), web browsing


2) HTPC/Game Server - All of the tasks above plus a game server (~20 slots) for whatever game i'm interested in. Maybe Counter-Strike: Source.

I will not be gaming on the computer in either scenario. This will just be something I put in my living room and hook up to my TV (~40").
 
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i3 2100 should work for you. RAM is cheap, if you have 4 slots, 16GB might be possible.
 
450 said:
i3 2100 should work for you. RAM is cheap, if you have 4 slots, 16GB might be possible.
Click to expand...

I threw a quick build together for ~$300 AR.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157176
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500187
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231308
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103940
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134

So I guess my original guestimate of $600 for Server/HTPC leaves a lot of room for improvement.
 
The TV size doesn't matter. Its all about the resolution.

1080p whether it comes packaged in a 22", 32", or 40"+ screen will all require the same amount of processing power.

New generation of IGPs are very capable. Intel HD2000 and/or HD3000 should work.
 
450 said:
The TV size doesn't matter. Its all about the resolution.

1080p whether it comes packaged in a 22", 32", or 40"+ screen will all require the same amount of processing power.

New generation of IGPs are very capable. Intel HD2000 and/or HD3000 should work.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I did not know that. So it looks like as long as I get a mobo with a new IGP I won't have to worry about the ~$125 I would have spent on a GPU.
 
IGP is fine. I just built a small HTPC.

ASUS P8H67-M LE - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131712&Tpk=P8H67-M LE
Intel Core i3-2100 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115078&Tpk=i3-2100
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 4GB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231425
Western Digital Caviar Blue - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769
IN WIN BL631.300TBL - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108065
and runs on Vista64 (Had a copy kicken around from an old dead laptop)

The cost was around 370 + shipping...and tax
I ripped all my DVDs and BluR at full quality to a server in my basement and this thing plays them back on XBMC full HD and 5.1(have to buy 2 more speakers and get 7.1 working) with not even a hiccup. Only thing i would do differently this time is use lower profile memory(small case caused an issue).
 
If I go strictly HTPC, will a cheap (~$60) AMD AM3 dual core suffice?
 
Yes, a cheap AMD chip should work. There was a guide I ran into when I was building mine that used an AMD Sempron chip in the budget machine. I would imagine that'd work just fine, but I do believe he tossed in a Radeon 5450 for another $40 or so.

That being said, I would recommend an i3 2100 if you can swing it. If you're near a Micro Center, they frequently have cpu/mobo combo deals for super cheap. I know a couple weeks ago, you could get the i3 2100 + MSI m-ATX mobo for $120 total, plus tax (in store only). I'm not sure if that's still an active deal or not.

I'm using the onboard video from the 2100, and it plays everything (including bluray) just fine. I've never even had so much as a hiccup with the thing.
 
Xonim said:
Yes, a cheap AMD chip should work. There was a guide I ran into when I was building mine that used an AMD Sempron chip in the budget machine. I would imagine that'd work just fine, but I do believe he tossed in a Radeon 5450 for another $40 or so.

That being said, I would recommend an i3 2100 if you can swing it. If you're near a Micro Center, they frequently have cpu/mobo combo deals for super cheap. I know a couple weeks ago, you could get the i3 2100 + MSI m-ATX mobo for $120 total, plus tax (in store only). I'm not sure if that's still an active deal or not.

I'm using the onboard video from the 2100, and it plays everything (including bluray) just fine. I've never even had so much as a hiccup with the thing.
Click to expand...

Money isn't the issue. I just don't want to pay for a tank when all I need is a 9mm.

What would the $120 i3 do that the typical $60 AMD/Intel couldn't. Obviously the i3 has more top end but since an HTPC doesn't need to be a power house how would that extra power come into play?
 
MrHood22 said:
Money isn't the issue. I just don't want to pay for a tank when all I need is a 9mm.

What would the $120 i3 do that the typical $60 AMD/Intel couldn't. Obviously the i3 has more top end but since an HTPC doesn't need to be a power house how would that extra power come into play?
Click to expand...

Define HTPC? Some play games, some encode/transcode, some do post processing functions. These all are more demanding. So it depends on what you want to do with YOUR HTPC. If all you want do is watch BD, then stick with the low-end part.
 
AQ_OC said:
Define HTPC? Some play games, some encode/transcode, some do post processing functions. These all are more demanding. So it depends on what you want to do with YOUR HTPC. If all you want do is watch BD, then stick with the low-end part.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I thought HTPC was something for Music/movies, etc. I didn't realize some people use them for games.

To sum up my OP,

I am thinking of going 1 of 2 ways.

1) HTPC - Movies (Thousands off of my NAS), Music (~21k off of my NAS), web browsing


2) HTPC/Game Server - All of the tasks above plus a game server (~20 slots) for whatever game i'm interested in. Maybe Counter-Strike: Source.


I will not be gaming on the computer in either scenario. This will just be something I put in my living room and hook up to my TV (~40").
 
I think you should go for the i3. Cooler & faster = better. Plus it works fine without an IGP.
 
450 said:
I think you should go for the i3. Cooler & faster = better. Plus it works fine without an IGP.
Click to expand...

I get that it's faster but if my commute to work is only 45mph it doesn't matter whether I get a bugatti or a prius, ya dig?

Echo of my other analogy: "I just don't want to pay for a tank when all I need is a 9mm."

If my tasks won't be enough to take advantage of the $60 AMD/Intel then it doesn't make sense getting an i3. I'm just trying to avoid overkill.

Now i'm just assuming I won't be able to take advantage of the i3 but if you guys give me reason to believe otherwise then i'm open to it.
 
I'm not sure what a game server is, but I don't think you need an i3 to play BDs, though if I were building from new parts that's what I would get. My system has an Core Duo E6840 @ 3GHz and it is overkill. The vid card is a Radeon HD 6570.
 
MrHood22 said:
Money isn't the issue. I just don't want to pay for a tank when all I need is a 9mm.

What would the $120 i3 do that the typical $60 AMD/Intel couldn't. Obviously the i3 has more top end but since an HTPC doesn't need to be a power house how would that extra power come into play?
Click to expand...

The $60 AMD will probably still need an IGP.
 
The integrated graphics on the i3-2100 can apparently support 3D(i don't have a 3D TV so i cant tell you from experience). I know you said you may upgrade your graphics card in you game machine and you could use that, but if you didn't the i3 would still give you the option to watch 3D movies in the future if you decided. That was one of the reasons i went that route...and it was pretty cheap :), but i do get your don't wanna overkill the machine if it will never get used to that potential.
 
AQ_OC said:
I'm not sure what a game server is, but I don't think you need an i3 to play BDs, though if I were building from new parts that's what I would get. My system has an Core Duo E6840 @ 3GHz and it is overkill. The vid card is a Radeon HD 6570.
Click to expand...

A game server as in a computer running a dedicated server for a game (such as CSS) so I and others outside of my network can join.


450 said:
The $60 AMD will probably still need an IGP.
Click to expand...

Yup, i'll still need some type of graphics processing.

Either...

CPU+Mobo+ Dedicated GPU

CPU + Mobo w/ IGP

i3 2500 + Mobo

Then it comes down to what is the most cost effective.

I think CPU + Mobo w/ IGP will be the cheapest but i3 2500 + Mobo (without IGP) will only be a little more so it might be the best bang for the buck.

So here's my next question. What is better ...current IGP or i3 2500?

Dentalis said:
The integrated graphics on the i3-2100 can apparently support 3D(i don't have a 3D TV so i cant tell you from experience). I know you said you may upgrade your graphics card in you game machine and you could use that, but if you didn't the i3 would still give you the option to watch 3D movies in the future if you decided. That was one of the reasons i went that route...and it was pretty cheap :), but i do get your don't wanna overkill the machine if it will never get used to that potential.
Click to expand...

3D won't be in my future.
 
How can anyone be sure what a machine will be used for down the road...a little overkill never hurts.
 
AQ_OC said:
How can anyone be sure what a machine will be used for down the road...a little overkill never hurts.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it will only be used for HTPC.

If this were my only PC then i'd agree with you 100%.

However, I have my Main/Gaming PC that needs to have the variable "Future proof" added into the equation when shopping.

This HTPC will be used for strictly movies (or a game server if I go that route).
 
But what if you get a 3D capable projector for your HTPC?
 
Will this be a movie player while serving games?

Get the i3+mobo. You never know...you might want to re-purpose the machine down the road. If you were reusing old parts, I'd say just add what you need. You're building new...don't buy has-been stuff. But low-end current parts.

Just a general rule.
 
AQ_OC said:
Will this be a movie player while serving games?

Get the i3+mobo. You never know...you might want to re-purpose the machine down the road. If you were reusing old parts, I'd say just add what you need. You're building new...don't buy has-been stuff. But low-end current parts.

Just a general rule.
Click to expand...

I would possibly watch a movie on it while having it run a game server. If I re-purpose the machine I will just upgrade the parts that are sufficient.

As far as buying has-been stuff vs low end current. I buy a price range, not a product. If a product is in my price range and it fulfills all my current needs then i'll buy it regardless of the generation. Now obviously if it is $100 for a 2 generation old part versus something equal in price and performance in a current gen then i'd get the current gen.
 
MrHood22 said:
A game server as in a computer running a dedicated server for a game (such as CSS) so I and others outside of my network can join.




Yup, i'll still need some type of graphics processing.

Either...

CPU+Mobo+ Dedicated GPU

CPU + Mobo w/ IGP

i3 2500 + Mobo

Then it comes down to what is the most cost effective.

I think CPU + Mobo w/ IGP will be the cheapest but i3 2500 + Mobo (without IGP) will only be a little more so it might be the best bang for the buck.

So here's my next question. What is better ...current IGP or i3 2500?



3D won't be in my future.
Click to expand...
Problem is that none of the current AMD IGP's other than the Llano or Zacate are really capable of HD decode with no problems, the i3 GPU is. Still, I like the idea of going with a cheap CPU, mobo and dGPU over a more powerful CPU, more expensive mobo and IGP. I'd even pay more for the former if only because even the lowest end dGPU is a better decode option than IGP. 3D might be in your future but interlaced content has a much higher probablility of making it into your video library, and a bit more power is necessary to be "good enough" for that content. That said, I completely agree with your tact here. "good enough" is "good enough" especially when you're looking have it set in a very specific role. chances are that future upgrades will be necessary anyway if something changes in terms of the video quality or whatever.. by that time you'll probably be able to get something even better than an i3 for an incremental cost thats only slightly higher in the future. For example a $200 rig now and a $200 future rig thats better than an i3 vs a $300 rig now thats slower in the future. the cash outlay at any one time is less of a burden, even if the long term cost is more
 
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The reason I and probably everyone else keeps suggesting the i3 is because if you can score that deal for $120, even a cheap AMD chip + mobo is going to be close to that, and the i3 will outperform it every time.

Is it overkill for an HTPC? Yeah. But the price is right, the performance is great, and should something change down the line where you want to repurpose it, the i3 2100 is an acceptable chip for other uses.
 
Xonim said:
The reason I and probably everyone else keeps suggesting the i3 is because if you can score that deal for $120, even a cheap AMD chip + mobo is going to be close to that, and the i3 will outperform it every time.

Is it overkill for an HTPC? Yeah. But the price is right, the performance is great, and should something change down the line where you want to repurpose it, the i3 2100 is an acceptable chip for other uses.
Click to expand...

$120 for a i3 2100 and Mobo would be a great option. However, that's banking on the chance that I can get that. If I can't i'm looking at $120 (i3 2100) + ~$90 for the mobo.

Regardless of the the CPU/Mobo/GPU i'm going to end up spending...

~$60 on a case
~$50 on ram


So that leaves me about $400 to put towards the CPU/Mobo/GPU because I already have the hard drive and PSU. Currently i'm in the process of making 4 builds:

HTPC/Server -
1) AMD
2) Intel

HTPC -
1) AMD
2) Intel

A year or two ago when I followed hardware it seemed like AMD was much cheaper then Intel but now they seem to be even or within a few dollars.
 
Just hopped on microcenter.com to see if the deal was still active...it is. However, the motherboard included for the $120 has no HDMI port, so...that doesn't work.

Here is the guide I was referring to earlier, it looks like the Sempron build is no longer listed in his recommended builds section.

You could go something like:
Intel Pentium G620 Sandy Bridge @ 2.6 GHz ($78)
ASRock H67M Motherboard ($85)
According to that guide the G620 is basically an i3 at a slower clock without 3D capabilities. I didn't even know it existed until just now, so take that for what it's worth.

AMD build:
AMD Athlon X2 250 Regor @ 3.0 GHz ($60)
Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2P MicroATX ($55 shipped)

EDIT: I'm fairly certain that this is the Sempron chip he used to have in that guide. But being a single core processor, you'd very much be limiting that box to HTPC use.
 
Xonim said:
Just hopped on microcenter.com to see if the deal was still active...it is. However, the motherboard included for the $120 has no HDMI port, so...that doesn't work.

Here is the guide I was referring to earlier, it looks like the Sempron build is no longer listed in his recommended builds section.

You could go something like:
Intel Pentium G620 Sandy Bridge @ 2.6 GHz ($78)
ASRock H67M Motherboard ($85)
According to that guide the G620 is basically an i3 at a slower clock without 3D capabilities. I didn't even know it existed until just now, so take that for what it's worth.

AMD build:
AMD Athlon X2 250 Regor @ 3.0 GHz ($60)
Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2P MicroATX ($55 shipped)

EDIT: I'm fairly certain that this is the Sempron chip he used to have in that guide. But being a single core processor, you'd very much be limiting that box to HTPC use.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I will look into that.

I noticed a lot of you keep recommending mATX boards. Why is that? I understand if you're getting an mATX case but is there any benefit if you're getting a ATX mid tower?

As far as why I don't think i'd get an mATX case is because i'd imagine them to be a little warmer inside.
 
I mostly recommend mATX because when I think HTPC I think small/sleek cases, not a mid tower. There's no benefit if you're using an ATX case. You may in fact be limiting yourself by the number of SATA ports on an mATX board vs. a full ATX board, as well as the number of HDD bays in mATX cases.

Heatwise, I can only vouch for my build, but the i3's run extremely cool. I would imagine that adding a dedicated GPU to the mix would add some heat, but not so much that you would need to rule out mATX cases if you find one you like.
 
This is not my area of expertise, research is indicated. I do not know how well AMD on board video rates, no complaints seen.
As reviewers keep using the most extreme movies I think you are safe short of Avatar 3D or Cloudy with Meatballs. Sound the 889 chipset is best, the 892 good enough.
The fact is AMD on board video has been better than Intel.
The Core Ix series is meant to change that with HD2000/HD3000 on chip video.
This is a serious boost in performance, and these will play any Blue-ray.
There is a hiccup. Intel hasn't matched frame rates and some people can notice.
I do not know if this is only from direct Blue-ray source or includes recorded media.
I skimmed most of the articles.
Llano trumps the HD2000/3000 video by putting a 5570/6570 video on chip with a four core processor for $140, which will do light gaming and multitasking.
There have been and are some software/ driver issues for the purist with both.
Personally a GT430 video card or equivalent offers DX 11, and better video. These have been available for $60-70 rebated to $40-50.
The Semperon is about $40, an Athlon II X2 250/255 about $62.
The I3 2100 has HD2000 video, THE i3 2105 has HD3000 video for $15 more. ($125 vs $140)
Despite equal power ratings expect the I3 to run cooler and more efficiently.
You will also have to be certain the HDMI Sound is motherboard supported, or appropriate connectors.
 
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On case size people wanting HTPC seem to want elegant stereo look components or unobtrusive boxes. Expect to pay extra.
Plus expect large boxes to attract clutter.
Personally some of the older classic cases (Cooler Master Centurion II) appeal to me, as do some just good cases.
The Lian Li older Lancools (PC-K57 $60 or PC-K58 $65).
 
I don't care much about the case. Preferably something black (mid tower or smaller) and under $50.

I will start looking at mATX options. Thanks.
 
I personally would go with the cheapest dual core I could get with discrete (430). This notion that HD2/3 is anywhere near a discrete from Nvidia or AMD is hogwash. It's not even close. The differences in image quality alone precludes me from offering the i3. Is it a good chip? Of course it is.

However, for the price it's not really giving you anything more for the money unless you intend to use the CPU power somehow and that's the rub with this chip. For 100+ you would spend the same on a cheap DC + discrete and you would have double the performance across the board for gaming, post processing, 3D or whatever it is you wanted to do. That's how bad that IGP is. You could go with a C2D or Athlon and paired with discrete it will walk all over an i3 in EVERYTHING except Cinebench, video encoding, or when it's (the i3) paired with discrete (which is more money).

The only saving grace of the i3 is it's power consumption but that's hardly anything to highlight since we are talking HTPC's. You could easily downclock and undervolt a C2D or Athlon as far as it will go and reach the same wattage of the chip itself (beat it actually) and they would still when paired with discrete walk all over Intel's IGP for less in terms of perf/$ for HTPC usage since downclocking the CPU will have little effect on the discrete in HTPC use..

I don't know how much CPU power people think they need for HTPC's but unless you're gaming on it (which the i3's IGP sucks at anyway) or running more than 2 tuners. The amount of CPU needed with discrete is tiny... tiny tiny tiny when a good GPU is there. To put it in perspective my HTPC is literally made up of parts people were throwing away. My only expense was the 430 for 69 bucks and the HTPC case. The CPU was an Athlon DC 5200 or something with C&C turn on running at 1GHZ. How much CPU is used when watching H264 video?...... 10%, No I'm not joking the GPU is doing most of the heavy lifting. The rest of the CPU power only comes into play when it's encoding Live TV shows at 1080. Everything else is streamed or converted on my i7 before it gets it.

The only other area of recommendation of an i3 comes in the form of encoding, which blows the doors off any chip at it's price point or lower. The problem, how often does it happen in real world? How much savings is it giving me in power during the encoding of a recorded show versus a bigger hard drive? The answer: ZERO. The larger hard drive is consuming less power, and giving me far more versatility across the board making encoding or transcoding for that matter..... meaningless.
 
kac77 said:
I personally would go with the cheapest dual core I could get with discrete (430). This notion that HD2/3 is anywhere near a discrete from Nvidia or AMD is hogwash. It's not even close. The differences in image quality alone precludes me from offering the i3. Is it a good chip? Of course it is.

However, for the price it's not really giving you anything more for the money unless you intend to use the CPU power somehow and that's the rub with this chip. For 100+ you would spend the same on a cheap DC + discrete and you would have double the performance across the board for gaming, post processing, 3D or whatever it is you wanted to do. That's how bad that IGP is. You could go with a C2D or Athlon and paired with discrete it will walk all over an i3 in EVERYTHING except Cinebench, video encoding, or when it's (the i3) paired with discrete (which is more money).

The only saving grace of the i3 is it's power consumption but that's hardly anything to highlight since we are talking HTPC's. You could easily downclock and undervolt a C2D or Athlon as far as it will go and reach the same wattage of the chip itself (beat it actually) and they would still when paired with discrete walk all over Intel's IGP for less in terms of perf/$ for HTPC usage since downclocking the CPU will have little effect on the discrete in HTPC use..

I don't know how much CPU power people think they need for HTPC's but unless you're gaming on it (which the i3's IGP sucks at anyway) or running more than 2 tuners. The amount of CPU needed with discrete is tiny... tiny tiny tiny when a good GPU is there. To put it in perspective my HTPC is literally made up of parts people were throwing away. My only expense was the 430 for 69 bucks and the HTPC case. The CPU was an Athlon DC 5200 or something with C&C turn on running at 1GHZ. How much CPU is used when watching H264 video?...... 10%, No I'm not joking the GPU is doing most of the heavy lifting. The rest of the CPU power only comes into play when it's encoding Live TV shows at 1080. Everything else is streamed or converted on my i7 before it gets it.

The only other area of recommendation of an i3 comes in the form of encoding, which blows the doors off any chip at it's price point or lower. The problem, how often does it happen in real world? How much savings is it giving me in power during the encoding of a recorded show versus a bigger hard drive? The answer: ZERO. The larger hard drive is consuming less power, and giving me far more versatility across the board making encoding or transcoding for that matter..... meaningless.
Click to expand...

Those were more or less my thoughts at the beginning of this thread, now i'm not too sure.

Do any of you "Go i3 with no IGP or dedicated card" supporters have a retort?
 
So I threw together a quick build that could double as a HTPC/Game server. This is without an i3 (although I do have a build saved with an i3)

Coolermaster elite 360
MSI 880GM-E43
Sapphire Radeon HD 6570
Phenom II x4 840
G.Skill Ripjaws 2 x 4gb DDR3 1066

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119195
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130293
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102934
https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?BundleExist=N&ID=12052149&ChangeQty=0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231308

Subtotal: $352.95




I think the RAM and Case will be used regardless of the CPU/Mobo combo (unless you all see something better).

So do you guys think this AMD CPU/Mobo/GPU combo will outperform an i3/Mobo combo ($350 vs $325)?
 
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