Browns, Backlight, Double Injection Molded Keycaps

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Justintoxicated

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What are my options? I haven't found any... Closest thing I can find is the Max Keyboard blackbird but I would like a 10-key for work.

I'd prefer 10Key since this will be for work.
 
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missalaire said:
Your cheapest option would probably be to buy the blackbird and a USB tenkey pad. Otherwise, the only other options that I think meet your requirements are the new Deck Hassium Pro keyboards.

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=677
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=680
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The one in white is exactly what I am looking for, well except for that terrible font and that price high price.

It looks like a couple of the keys do not light up though?

How are the stabilizers?

Where are the cap / scroll lock / num lock indicators (I don't care for the location on the Blackbird because the indicators get covered up by the keys a bit, but it's not a deal breaker, just that I don't see them at all on this one). Or do the keys themselves not light up unless the locks are enabled?

I can't find any reviews. I guess I'm willing to pay to get what I want but I would expect all the keys to light up for that price....

I heard that Max keyboard is working on a 10Key version of the blackbird but I do not know when it will be out and I'm not sure how long I want to wait. I mean I guess I could buy another blackbird but for work, but I think the 10key would be nice as I would use it often enough. There's just something about typing on the blackbird vs some other Cherry brown boards, I think it must be the keycaps and stabilizers that make it so great, but I can't put my finger on it.

Do the stabilizers on the Ducky board make any strange noise when you hit the long keys? Are the keycaps that bad compared to doubleshots?
 
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Ducky has arguably the best coated ABS backlit keycaps on the mechanical market and I'd have to agree; their manufacturing quality is well regarded too (and it shows in their solder points and higher quality LEDs used). The stabilizers used are standard Cherry plate mount (there was noise of them being an improved version, but I don't see any difference), and should be the same as what the Blackbird uses.

The lock keys are normally their own indicators on many backlit boards (and even on some standard boards), "off" just means they are inactive.

One factor that may attribute to such a different feel on the Blackbird is the thickness of the keycaps they use; they seem to be nearly double the thickness of most standard keycaps because of their manufacturing process, this isn't a standard double-shot form. GMK (Cherry) uses a thicker wall and lower profile on all of their keys (ABS, DS, PBT, POM), iirc. Ducky is putting out thick PBT keys in a "standard OEM" profile. There are a few more companies that use thicker keycaps, but I can't remember who.

I'd consider browsing through a more specialized site as everything you've been asking is more or less "common knowledge" in the peripheral enthusiast field and I'm sure you have a lot more questions. Geekhack.org and Deskthority.net are two really good places to start with a lot of information. Overclock.net has some decent info, but their mouse section is really great.
 
Skull_Angel said:
Ducky has arguably the best coated ABS backlit keycaps on the mechanical market and I'd have to agree; their manufacturing quality is well regarded too (and it shows in their solder points and higher quality LEDs used). The stabilizers used are standard Cherry plate mount (there was noise of them being an improved version, but I don't see any difference), and should be the same as what the Blackbird uses.

The lock keys are normally their own indicators on many backlit boards (and even on some standard boards), "off" just means they are inactive.

One factor that may attribute to such a different feel on the Blackbird is the thickness of the keycaps they use; they seem to be nearly double the thickness of most standard keycaps because of their manufacturing process, this isn't a standard double-shot form. GMK (Cherry) uses a thicker wall and lower profile on all of their keys (ABS, DS, PBT, POM), iirc. Ducky is putting out thick PBT keys in a "standard OEM" profile. There are a few more companies that use thicker keycaps, but I can't remember who.

I'd consider browsing through a more specialized site as everything you've been asking is more or less "common knowledge" in the peripheral enthusiast field and I'm sure you have a lot more questions. Geekhack.org and Deskthority.net are two really good places to start with a lot of information. Overclock.net has some decent info, but their mouse section is really great.
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I have been browsing those sites a bit and there is some good information there after I wade through all the junk.

So you like the ducky more than the Deck? From the pictures it looks like the Deck keyboard uses very high quality PCB too so it almost seems it might be better than the ducky in every way (for higher cost of course), except that I have no idea which stabilizers it uses, nor do I have them side by side to compare to be sure. The font on the keys I do not like but I could live with it. Apparently the blackbird is a fluke with the cherry stabilizers in that it they are more consist than usual, so not sure how the Deck would feel if it had Cherry Stabilizers. The Poseidon I purchased had terrible stabilizers so getting another keyboard like that one is my biggest fear.
 
Justintoxicated said:
I have been browsing those sites a bit and there is some good information there after I wade through all the junk.

So you like the ducky more than the Deck? From the pictures it looks like the Deck keyboard uses very high quality PCB too so it almost seems it might be better than the ducky in every way (for higher cost of course), except that I have no idea which stabilizers it uses, nor do I have them side by side to compare to be sure. The font on the keys I do not like but I could live with it. Apparently the blackbird is a fluke with the cherry stabilizers in that it they are more consist than usual, so not sure how the Deck would feel if it had Cherry Stabilizers. The Poseidon I purchased had terrible stabilizers so getting another keyboard like that one is my biggest fear.
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It's the same on every forum; you've gotta dig to find everything good.

I haven't really been keeping up, Deck's older boards were tanks and the company even supported modding, but I haven't seen any internals of these new boards yet (I do remember rumors of them being manufactured in China which isn't always bad, but isn't normally a great indicator). The keys Deck use to use were a 2-piece reverse dye-sublimated and skirted PBT getup, but these new ones seem to be a more traditional (but modified) doubleshot in PBT.

I prefer Cherry stabilizers personally, they have a more solid feel which I enjoy over even modded Costar stabs.. They can have issues if a bar isn't installed correctly or gets twisted/dislodged during shipping or considerable shock (using the thing as a weapon); in general they have pretty tight tolerances which any issues make themselves well known when used.

As far as keyboards go, I can't stand Deck's font and their (older) boards were pricy for what they were. My Shine 2 on the other hand, was only ~$120 (USD) and I'm more than happy with everything about it, good-solid board with no issues. There are price points in this market (mechanical boards) which don't really mean much because of all the hype gaming companies are pushing into lower quality crap. CM Storm's QFR and Ducky's Zero lines should be considered as base quality benchmarks; their prices are well represented for what you get and paying more will not necessarily get you anything better, it only really gets you more features (and in more cases than not recently, you're also paying for branding and/or BS).
 
Skull_Angel said:
It's the same on every forum; you've gotta dig to find everything good.

I haven't really been keeping up, Deck's older boards were tanks and the company even supported modding, but I haven't seen any internals of these new boards yet (I do remember rumors of them being manufactured in China which isn't always bad, but isn't normally a great indicator). The keys Deck use to use were a 2-piece reverse dye-sublimated and skirted PBT getup, but these new ones seem to be a more traditional (but modified) doubleshot in PBT.

I prefer Cherry stabilizers personally, they have a more solid feel which I enjoy over even modded Costar stabs.. They can have issues if a bar isn't installed correctly or gets twisted/dislodged during shipping or considerable shock (using the thing as a weapon); in general they have pretty tight tolerances which any issues make themselves well known when used.

As far as keyboards go, I can't stand Deck's font and their (older) boards were pricy for what they were. My Shine 2 on the other hand, was only ~$120 (USD) and I'm more than happy with everything about it, good-solid board with no issues. There are price points in this market (mechanical boards) which don't really mean much because of all the hype gaming companies are pushing into lower quality crap. CM Storm's QFR and Ducky's Zero lines should be considered as base quality benchmarks; their prices are well represented for what you get and paying more will not necessarily get you anything better, it only really gets you more features (and in more cases than not recently, you're also paying for branding and/or BS).
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Well my max keyboard was worth every penny. The thermaltake left me wanting more, although much better than rubber dome that does not really say much. Both use browns but the key presses and feel was pretty different, so maybe you do get more if you pay more, at least if getting double injection molded keycaps over others. The Deck is going for $150 so not much over the ducky shine 3, and you can program custom lighting effects apparently although I don't really care much about that. The PCB on the deck looked real clean from the pictures I saw, but yea probably made in china, I mean ducky is made in Taiwan, so not sure that's necessarily better. Maxkeyboard is also made in china I believe, but has to be the best thing I have ever typed on so far. I just don't think I can wait 3-4 months for their fullsize version of the blackbird to be released. The font is a bit ugly on the Deck, I mean I really don't like it but perhaps I could get used to it if the build quality is there.
 
I'd advise you to do a bit more research if all of these points really interest you; basically, the quality of these keyboards is reliant on all of the pieces and how well they're combined, feel is very subjective due to a lot of factors and is not necessarily an indicator of quality without pinpointing causes.
 
I recently picked up a Ducky Zero (DK2108S) at Microcenter that is blue backlit (think ducky makes an orange backlight as well on this model) with reds. They also stocked this keyboard with browns. I've had razer and logitech keyboards and frankly this one puts them all to shame. Build quality is excellent and its built like a brick s$%# house. Very happy with the purchase and would recommend.
 
I think I'm going to be stuck waiting for the new full size version of the blackbird. Further research on the Deck keyboard shows that the doubleshot keycaps have an inferior injection design which causes uneven backlighting on the keys.

Blackbird Keycaps:
Blackbird-TKL-KEY-CAPS-920.jpg


Deck Keycaps:
2yMeYmlh.jpg


I do not know how the deck compares to the blackbird in build quality, but I can't see it being significantly better really...
5933_22_max_keyboard_blackbird_tenkeyless_mechanical_backlit_keyboard_review.jpg


Ducky is tempting, but I do think I want to stick with doubleshot keycaps, or at least thicker keycaps, which gives the deck keyboard a +1 to ducky. You can create your own lighting effects on the Deck too, but I don't really care about lighting effects, other than brightness control, and the on/off for the lock keys is a nice touch. Too bad ducky and others are concentrating on useless effects rather than their keycaps.
 
After a bit of digging it seems the Blackbird is made by Datacomp; it's a step up from their previous manufacturer (iOne), but it could still be improved a bit. Iirc, Deck is a daughter company of TG3 which makes industrial grade products, so the quality is really there with their older boards (I'm not sure about these new ones though, haven't looked into them all too much yet).

I will agree that the keycaps on the Blackbird seem top notch though; keycaps have always been the bane of backlit boards and while Deck made a good step in the right direction with a more backlit friendly doubleshot process, the process on the Blackbird's seems as if it would be a bit costly for most other manufacturers to consider (which is really sad because they look great). Hopefully Maxkeyboards will decide to sell these keycap sets, because if they did they could make a killing.
 
Skull_Angel said:
After a bit of digging it seems the Blackbird is made by Datacomp; it's a step up from their previous manufacturer (iOne), but it could still be improved a bit. Iirc, Deck is a daughter company of TG3 which makes industrial grade products, so the quality is really there with their older boards (I'm not sure about these new ones though, haven't looked into them all too much yet).

I will agree that the keycaps on the Blackbird seem top notch though; keycaps have always been the bane of backlit boards and while Deck made a good step in the right direction with a more backlit friendly doubleshot process, the process on the Blackbird's seems as if it would be a bit costly for most other manufacturers to consider (which is really sad because they look great). Hopefully Maxkeyboards will decide to sell these keycap sets, because if they did they could make a killing.
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I saw that post too but I don't see any reason to believe that the quality is lacking on the blackbird. I think I would enjoy the blackbird more than a keyboard made by a better OEM that has poor keycaps, especially if I can't find any evident QC problems. What I mean is, if the solder joints look slightly better from TG3 etc I don't really care because I never see them, and unless there is actually a problem with the board on the blackbird due to a bad solder joint then who cares? Extra flux on the board isn't going to hurt anything either, although evidently Datacomp cleans it all off anyways. This review seems to think the Blackbrid has pretty damn good quality though.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/59...echanical-backlit-keyboard-review/index4.html

Not saying that Deck internals are not better, just that I think I would like another Blackbird style keyboard more anyways just due to the keycaps.
 
I own a Deck and a Blackbird. They are probably equal in quality IMO.

I JUST snagged a Blackbird with the blues. Not a fan of the browns for gaming.
 
Gmok Bonecrusha said:
I own a Deck and a Blackbird. They are probably equal in quality IMO.

I JUST snagged a Blackbird with the blues. Not a fan of the browns for gaming.
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I thought the blues were supposed to be the bad ones for gaming due to the actuation and return points being different making it harder to doubletap?

I was just playing stick of truth and could never attain a "shit nuget" on my non mechanical keyboard due to having to press the s key extremely fast (have to get my whole arm into that action lol).

How do you like the deck? It's hard to tell in the pictures but is the back-lighting unevenness that bad? I'm contemplating just getting another blackbird for work, and dealing with not having a 10key, although I know I would miss it at work. But if the deck's backlighting isn't terrible I could always grab that instead and pray for some better keycaps in the future.

Maybe I should get get something non-backlight for work, if there is anything substantially better quality than these.
 
Justintoxicated said:
I thought the blues were supposed to be the bad ones for gaming due to the actuation and return points being different making it harder to doubletap?

I was just playing stick of truth and could never attain a "shit nuget" on my non mechanical keyboard due to having to press the s key extremely fast (have to get my whole arm into that action lol).

How do you like the deck? It's hard to tell in the pictures but is the back-lighting unevenness that bad? I'm contemplating just getting another blackbird for work, and dealing with not having a 10key, although I know I would miss it at work. But if the deck's backlighting isn't terrible I could always grab that instead and pray for some better keycaps in the future.

Maybe I should get get something non-backlight for work, if there is anything substantially better quality than these.
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I'm not that hard core a gamer that I can tell the difference between a blue and a red switch giving me a disadvantage. I like the way they feel is pretty much my way to go.

The Deck has bright backlighting. I see no unevenness. The lettering on the caps is..weird some would say. Not standard. The caps themselves are solid. There is also very little wiggle room on the keys.

I prefer the BB, over the Deck...but it's like a Porche vs a Beamer. Both great cars.
 
Gmok Bonecrusha said:
I'm not that hard core a gamer that I can tell the difference between a blue and a red switch giving me a disadvantage. I like the way they feel is pretty much my way to go.

The Deck has bright backlighting. I see no unevenness. The lettering on the caps is..weird some would say. Not standard. The caps themselves are solid. There is also very little wiggle room on the keys.

I prefer the BB, over the Deck...but it's like a Porche vs a Beamer. Both great cars.
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Thanks, I might have to pickup a deck then for the TK, although I really thought I would miss it more than I do. I wonder if the Legend with the clear switches in any better?

I just realized the BB is doubleshot ABS and the Deck is doubleshot PBT.

Now I have my eyes on this one, but I'll probably grab the deck anyways.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ducky-shine-3-gold-edition
 
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Ok so I'm going to get a Deck. But I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger on a keyboard with a Ten Key. I tried going back to a ten key today and I keep having to slide the keyboard around or bump the mouse into it. It is convenient for using the windows calculator though, and typing ip addresses n such...


So hard to decide!
 
You could always buy a separate 10-key pad; the nice ones get price, but if you do a lot of data entry they're worth it.
 
Skull_Angel said:
You could always buy a separate 10-key pad; the nice ones get price, but if you do a lot of data entry they're worth it.
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I don't really do any data entry, just what is required for development. I probably type more IP address than anything else, but sometimes I have to do a bunch of conversions etc, just not every day.
 
What about the Durandal G1NL? Keycaps are laser engraved, you get backlighting, and you can select MX Brown switched from MaxKeyboard. It is a bit pricey, but it seems to be the closest to your criteria. Of course, MK doesn't have the MX Brown version in stock right now, but you could ask them. Plus, a lot of other etailors sell the G1NL w/ MX Brown. (seems to be out of stock everywhere...hope it's not disco'd, because this is a top contender for when I get around to buying a mech kb).

Or, there's always the full custom option from MaxKeyboard, but that's going to be even more expensive. Otherwise, the Corsair K70 may be a contender for you.
 
DejaWiz said:
What about the Durandal G1NL? Keycaps are laser engraved, you get backlighting, and you can select MX Brown switched from MaxKeyboard. It is a bit pricey, but it seems to be the closest to your criteria. Of course, MK doesn't have the MX Brown version in stock right now, but you could ask them. Plus, a lot of other etailors sell the G1NL w/ MX Brown. (seems to be out of stock everywhere...hope it's not disco'd, because this is a top contender for when I get around to buying a mech kb).

Or, there's always the full custom option from MaxKeyboard, but that's going to be even more expensive. Otherwise, the Corsair K70 may be a contender for you.
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Yea but none of those have the doubleshot keycaps.

I think I'm going to get rid of my backlighting requirement since Blackbird and Deck are the only ones who make what I am looking for. As for the doubleshot keycaps on the deck, people do not seem to care for them. Bringing me back to what I already have but i was hoping to try something different.

I am now considering getting a Realforce Topre ( not sure on the options yet). A wasd with all the customizations I want, another blackbird, Leopold, or waiting for the CM Storm Novatouch.

The backbird is nice but I am already seeing a hint of shine on my spacebar and it's only been a month.
 
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