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Broadwell-E vs Ryzen in games (PurePC)

Of course, in order for everything to work perfectly, processors must also guarantee the right amount of FPS. In the second case the unbeaten winner is the Blue player, able to overtake the competitor by an unbelievably 40--60%, so the multi-threaded performance of the Intel Core i7-6900K works much better.
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That is a lot of! Other reviews are more in the 15% gap.
 
Another AMD/Intel thread, like I mean kaby G is something new but lets recycle the same crap 100 times.
 
When I see posts from this same group I should just know to ignore. Its amusing anymore.
 
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I am not trying to anger anyone here but I notice the same like 5 people starting with you Shintai who will lambaste, flame, fire, cook, fry, and shoot artillery at anything AMD. Why are you guys so persistently anti-amd?
 
tangoseal said:
I am not trying to anger anyone here but I notice the same like 5 people starting with you Shintai who will lambaste, flame, fire, cook, fry, and shoot artillery at anything AMD. Why are you guys so persistently anti-amd?
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5? I count 3.
 
Shintai said:
Broadwell is far ahead in IPC. And Skylake/Kabylake is very, very far ahead.
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Ryzen is terrible, just terrible.

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aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9YL0IvNjU2OTc1L29yaWdpbmFsLzAxLUx1eHJlbmRlci1UaW1lLnBuZw==

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tangoseal said:
I am not trying to anger anyone here but I notice the same like 5 people starting with you Shintai who will lambaste, flame, fire, cook, fry, and shoot artillery at anything AMD. Why are you guys so persistently anti-amd?
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They're not obsessed, they just correct people on proper facts. Constantly. In every thread. In any way AMD related.
 
I've been glowing in my assessment of Ryzen, but this is the Intel Processor forum, after all. It just struck me funny that a guy was griping about the quality of posts concerning Ryzen in the Intel subforum, then posts his own Ryzen info in the Intel subforum.

Dullard said:
I say "Good show, AMD!"

It's interesting how AMD and Intel trade blows depending on the task at hand. As someone who found 8 cores a revelation for Handbrake, it's sure nice to see Ryzen do so well in that application. For people who do stuff other than gaming on their PC, this should be a no brainer - and I bet gaming will come around. It's not like the thing won't game at all.

Hard to see how anybody could be disappointed with these new AMD offerings.
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Dullard said:
I don't get all the doom and gloom, it's doing a lot better than I expected it to. Surprisingly so!
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So I suppose the flip side would be those 3 to 5 people who always seem to pop into the Intel forum singing the praises of Ryzen.
 
lolfail9001 said:
2133 or 2666 what difference does it make?

And we both know Ryzen's support for anything faster is limited to a certain set of conditions.
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2900 makes a big difference and 3400 is where it's getting at today. 2133 is crippling to the point of being irelevant when talking about Ryzen.
 
Meeho said:
2900 makes a big difference and 3400 is where it's getting at today. 2133 is crippling to the point of being irelevant when talking about Ryzen.
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Now try and get something more than 16gb of capacity with 2900 or 3400 working.
 
Meeho said:
They were testing with 16 GB.
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You probably can only have 2 single sided sticks if you want 3400.

I have to run my 3200 single sided sticks at 2666 because 2933 can crash DX9 games.

You won't be able to have more than 16 GB using 2 single sided sticks.
 
Hardware.fr just tested with faster memory: http://www.hardware.fr/articles/958-7/impact-ranks.html

Broadwell-E gains just as much as Ryzen from faster memory, minor difference between the two in terms of scaling. According to the same website Broadwell-E is 20% faster per clock in CPU limited games. 6800K remains a better choice for games than Ryzen - better IPC + slightly higher overclocking potential.
 
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Seems Broadwell scales even more, but with a higher IPC its also expected.
 
-Sweeper_ said:
Hardware.fr just tested with faster memory: http://www.hardware.fr/articles/958-7/impact-ranks.html

Broadwell-E gains just as much as Ryzen from faster memory, minor difference between the two in terms of scaling. According to the same website Broadwell-E is 20% faster per clock in CPU limited games. 6800K remains a better choice for games than Ryzen - better IPC + slightly higher overclocking potential.
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Not just as much, but it does scale. Sometimes close to Ryzen, sometimes at half the rate.

B-E is 12% faster on average in tested games @ 3200CL16
 
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Meeho said:
Ryzen is terrible, just terrible.



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And just as a side note, this type of graph is slightly misleading. I can fire off CB15 in my 2 year old 5960X rig with daily driver clocks and all background processes running and get at least 200 more points than the top score shown here. I don't mean that as a slight towards Ryzen by any means, and I've seen Ryzen scores in the 1700s and even a couple in the 1800s but with what I'd wager are suicide runs at much higher voltages than their 24/7 settings. Look at the 8/16 HWBot X265 scores. One Ryzen in the top 20 with a 4.8GHz LN2 run. My 5960X daily driver would slot in 8th at 14.93, on water, no special settings. Again, not taking anything away from Ryzen. Here's a FS Ultra link I ran over a year ago - I don't even have the program any longer- with 22.2K physics score and daily driver clocks. I haven't seen many Ryzens crack 22K physics unless really being pushed.

I know, I know - my CPU is OC'd. But I see guys OCing their Ryzens and still not blowing my doors off like that graph suggests they should be.
 
Dullard said:
And just as a side note, this type of graph is slightly misleading. I can fire off CB15 in my 2 year old 5960X rig with daily driver clocks and all background processes running and get at least 200 more points than the top score shown here. I don't mean that as a slight towards Ryzen by any means, and I've seen Ryzen scores in the 1700s and even a couple in the 1800s but with what I'd wager are suicide runs at much higher voltages than their 24/7 settings. Look at the 8/16 HWBot X265 scores. One Ryzen in the top 20 with a 4.8GHz LN2 run. My 5960X daily driver would slot in 8th at 14.93, on water, no special settings. Again, not taking anything away from Ryzen. Here's a FS Ultra link I ran over a year ago - I don't even have the program any longer- with 22.2K physics score and daily driver clocks. I haven't seen many Ryzens crack 22K physics unless really being pushed.

I know, I know - my CPU is OC'd. But I see guys OCing their Ryzens and still not blowing my doors off like that graph suggests they should be.
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You have no reason to upgrade to anything, but 1800x is half the price of 6900k or 5960x and that's great value comparatively.
 
Meeho said:
You have no reason to upgrade to anything, but 1800x is half the price of 6900k or 5960x and that's great value comparatively.
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I never argued that Ryzen wasn't a great value, but at the same time I've been using the 5960X for 2 years - and Ryzen wasn't even around 2 years ago. I also agree that an upgrade isn't in my future at the moment, but that wasn't really the point of my post. I've seen bar graph after bar graph from reviewers that show Ryzen crushing a 6950X - much less a 5960X - but in the real world I ain't getting crushed so much.
 
-Sweeper_ said:
Hardware.fr just tested with faster memory: http://www.hardware.fr/articles/958-7/impact-ranks.html

Broadwell-E gains just as much as Ryzen from faster memory, minor difference between the two in terms of scaling. According to the same website Broadwell-E is 20% faster per clock in CPU limited games. 6800K remains a better choice for games than Ryzen - better IPC + slightly higher overclocking potential.
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The 1700 is still good value given the price point. On a 1700 you can get a good kit of RAM and Mobo for less than a 1800X. A 6800K plus RAM and Motherboard is already pushing up to 700. So in saying if there is a 1000 builder rig a 1700 is in there with at least a RX480/1060 level card which for a mainstream gamer is good.
 
Dullard said:
I never argued that Ryzen wasn't a great value, but at the same time I've been using the 5960X for 2 years - and Ryzen wasn't even around 2 years ago. I also agree that an upgrade isn't in my future at the moment, but that wasn't really the point of my post. I've seen bar graph after bar graph from reviewers that show Ryzen crushing a 6950X - much less a 5960X - but in the real world I ain't getting crushed so much.
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In the real world there are very few OCed computers. Stock is the real world.
 
Dullard said:
I never argued that Ryzen wasn't a great value, but at the same time I've been using the 5960X for 2 years - and Ryzen wasn't even around 2 years ago. I also agree that an upgrade isn't in my future at the moment, but that wasn't really the point of my post. I've seen bar graph after bar graph from reviewers that show Ryzen crushing a 6950X - much less a 5960X - but in the real world I ain't getting crushed so much.
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Because real world doesn't use low IPC benches using legacy instructions ;)
 
There are caveats and in some selective instance Ryzen can perform close to broadwell e, however I will focus more on the normative position and that is that Ryzen performs somewhere in between Ivy and Haswell if it comes to gaming performance. It does give up the advantage to Intels Sandy and Ivy being particularly well clocked CPU's easily able to do 4.7Ghz which does help them in that scenario.

If all stock for stock gaming wise looks like AMD CPU's will range between a 2600K and 4790K in most deep comparisons from title to title, the odd game it will keep up with BW/HW E parts and some titles it may even sit above Kaby and Skylake but thoese are more best case outliers.

I am still very happy where Ryzen lays its marker, a 8370 except in a pure GPU bound game or 1440 + simply doesn't handle high end Graphics cards well, Ryzen does, that is a good kicker for a new builder.
 
Ryzen gets trashed by Broadwell/Skylake/Kabylake, I think this isn't a surprise to anyone but die hard AMD apologists. Maybe AdoredTV will make a video trying to spin the results in some convoluted way to make themselves feel better. Don't get me wrong, Ryzen has it's place as a cheap workstation CPU but for gaming it sucks. I'd take a i7 5820k over any Ryzen CPU as it would give better gaming performance and match it in productivity without the headaches associated with a new platform like Ryzen.
 
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5150Joker said:
Ryzen gets trashed by Broadwell/Skylake/Kabylake, I think this isn't a surprise to anyone but die hard AMD apologists. Maybe AdoredTV will make a video trying to spin the results in some convoluted way to make themselves feel better. Don't get me wrong, Ryzen has it's place as a cheap workstation CPU but for gaming it sucks. I'd take a i7 5820k over any Ryzen CPU as it would give better gaming performance and match it in productivity without the headaches associated with a new platform like Ryzen.
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Using terminology like "sucks" is a pro point of view, it doesn't beat Intel's newest CPU's in gaming in a larger majority of games bar a few outliers, but in most benches it kind of hovers around a 3770K OC and 4970 (high clocked part), are those CPU's also "sucky"? Some folk I know still play professional DGL league in Battlefield with 2600K's and 1080's just fine. Suck is a subjective term that seems to be branded whether it i s a 1FPS difference or 20. Here is another situation where your choice of an expensive 5820K will get its rear end kicked by a 7700K, is it also the suck?
 
OrangeKhrush said:
Using terminology like "sucks" is a pro point of view, it doesn't beat Intel's newest CPU's in gaming in a larger majority of games bar a few outliers, but in most benches it kind of hovers around a 3770K OC and 4970 (high clocked part), are those CPU's also "sucky"? Some folk I know still play professional DGL league in Battlefield with 2600K's and 1080's just fine. Suck is a subjective term that seems to be branded whether it i s a 1FPS difference or 20. Here is another situation where your choice of an expensive 5820K will get its rear end kicked by a 7700K, is it also the suck?
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For a brand new generation of CPUs that have a ceiling of 4 GHz, yes I'd use the word sucks.
 
5150Joker said:
For a brand new generation of CPUs that have a ceiling of 4 GHz, yes I'd use the word sucks.
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It is at 4.2 on specific boards, 4.1 on majority of boards including B350's and clocking may be easier with newer stepping but ultimately the choice of a LPP node didn't offer to much benefit, that is not to say that AMD can't move to HP node going forward.
 
OrangeKhrush said:
It is at 4.2 on specific boards, 4.1 on majority of boards including B350's and clocking may be easier with newer stepping but ultimately the choice of a LPP node didn't offer to much benefit, that is not to say that AMD can't move to HP node going forward.
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I don't think their 4-6 core parts are going to do any better with regards to frequency ceiling. In comparison, my 7700K is coasting at 5 Ghz stable and I'm 100% sure I can push it further.
 
5150Joker said:
I don't think their 4-6 core parts are going to do any better with regards to frequency ceiling. In comparison, my 7700K is coasting at 5 Ghz stable and I'm 100% sure I can push it further.
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And what hardware are you utilizing to make all those FPS actually work? Monitors end at 144hz, and 4K negates all CPU performance. Again the biggest gains are made on the GPU, CPU's will be optional seconds when a 2600K is still good enough to pump a SLI 1080ti combo at 4K.

You don't have a need for Ryzen so what is the issue? there are other builders out there that may see Ryzen a copius enough to maybe save a buck or two and put it towards a GPU.
 
OrangeKhrush said:
It is at 4.2 on specific boards, 4.1 on majority of boards including B350's and clocking may be easier with newer stepping but ultimately the choice of a LPP node didn't offer to much benefit, that is not to say that AMD can't move to HP node going forward.
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There is no HP 14nm node lol. There were only two LPE and LPP, LPE was phased out. So only one, which is LPP.

What AMD has is a so so processor which only good thing about it is its cheap, so people that need to buy their systems which aren't fully workstations can get them on the cheap. But people that have already invested in a 2 or 4 year old Broadwell or Haswell, there is no real benefits for them.

Gaming , yeah they are getting killed there is no way around saying they aren't. We will see if that changes with memory speeds, but its only in the ~5% range. I don't think we will see Ryzen's gaming performance increase without developer intervention and or when AMD gets out there 4 core CPU's on one CCX. So people with Ivy/Sandy Bridge and up really don't need to upgrade

And it isn't the node that is holding the clocks back, its the architecture, we can see that because the voltage scaling needed to keep the frequency going up climbs up fast after 3.4 ghz.

The node has an upper limit of amount of voltage, but the architecture (leakage) creates the increase in voltage amounts.

These processors weren't made to go much past 4.0 ghz, some may get 4.1 or 4.2 but that's the upper limit.
 
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