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Bottlenecking

B

Bigjmaster18

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
109
How much will my Cpu and ram Bottleneck my new Ati 4870 that i will be ordering?

I have 1.5 gigs of pc3200 ram and a Intel Pentium 4 3 GHz

I also game at 1920X1080

What will be the expected fps difference with this setup vs having 4gb of ram and a quad core processor?

I just want some ideas so in the future i can upgrade the Cpu and ram

thanks
 
That P4 will definitely bottleneck, but it is difficult to determine exactly how much. The ram is less of an issue. Most games make use of dual cores these days, and the instruction sets for the P4 are pretty deficient. Start saving some bucks.
 
Archaea said:
^ it's all about the GPU baby!
Click to expand...
um NO its not. the cpu that the OP has would not even come close to getting the good performance that the 4870 is capable of. there are plenty of links out there that show differences in modern cpus not to mention a slow ass P4. hell my 2.6 X2 gets its ass whipped by even a 1.8 or 2.0 Core 2 in some games. you have to draw the line somewhere and single core P4 is way past that line.
 
hmmm alright thanks guys! I know that i really need to upgrade my cpu now. Thanks

I want to get the Q6600 quad core
 
Bigjmaster18 said:
hmmm alright thanks guys! I know that i really need to upgrade my cpu now. Thanks

I want to get the Q6600 quad core
Click to expand...

Good choice.

You'll need new mobo/ram for that, you definitely want 2gb min, preferably 4gb and you'll have a really kick arse gaming rig.
 
thanks

also in the market for a new mobo thats lga775 but i dont really know brands or anything of that sort.

Is there a decent mobo for under $80 that will support 8 gigs of ram and a q6600 processor with at least one pci slot?
 
What about a 7950 GX2 PCIe? I am running that at home using an Opteron 185 (2.6Ghz, stock speed).
Looking at the comparison chart at Tom's Hardware it would seem that a single 7950 only receives an approximate boost of 10% if upgraded with a faster CPU. 10% doesn't really seem like worth doing though.

Am I missing something?
 
Bigjmaster18 said:
hmmm alright thanks guys! I know that i really need to upgrade my cpu now. Thanks

I want to get the Q6600 quad core
Click to expand...

Yep good decision :)
You need to be running an Intel Core 2 at 3GHz or higher to get the best out of the newer cards.
 
Bigjmaster18 said:
thanks

also in the market for a new mobo thats lga775 but i dont really know brands or anything of that sort.

Is there a decent mobo for under $80 that will support 8 gigs of ram and a q6600 processor with at least one pci slot?
Click to expand...

Perhaps a used P35 or a new low-end P35. Cough another $20-30 and get a P45 so you can use PCI x 16 (2.0) for your new video card.
 
wait a min, you have a board with a p4 and ddr1 and you plan on getting a 4870?
you sure u got a pci express slot there bro?
if you dont, the best card you can buy is a 3850 agp iirc, and i wouldnt worry too much about cpu bottlenecking with a card like that.
 
Yup I have pci express on this but not pci express 2.0. right now i have a 7950gt in it but its not cutting it for me
 
Bigjmaster18 said:
just the mobo/cpu/ram lol thats like $500 right there

Man im gonna be so poor
Click to expand...

Q6600: ~$200
Gigabyte EP45-DS3L: ~$100
4GB DDR2: ~$60-80

Total: ~$360-380

And you could knock off a few bucks by going to a cheap dual-core like an E7200, or going down to 2GB of RAM.
 
Yeah you really don't need a Core 2 Quad for gaming yet. A E8400 3.0GHz dual core will game faster than a Q6600 will and it'll be a bit cheaper too. Or the E7200 for $120-130 and that will blow away the P4 easily as well.
 
Cowboy420 said:
Err..no it isn't.......:confused: He would see quite a jump in FPS if he switched over to a dual or quad core from his limping P4..
Click to expand...

You and Cannondale06 don't know what you are talking about.

It's been widely known for a LONG time that GPU has much more effect on gaming performance than CPU upgrades...If you can only afford one --- PICK GPU! Anytime you go up to a decent resolution the GPU is all that matters --- EVEN with an aging P4.

Did you even read the article....I didn't even have to read it to post my GPU bias response ----, being around hardware for 15 years is my refernce -- but apparently you both should read the referenced article and SEE how you gain a bit with the core 2 or quads but so much more with an upgraded video card!

Lets take examples of both

Q6600 with a 6800GT

vs.

AMD X2 3200+ with a 9800GTX

Q6600 is blazing faster than the X2 3200+
6800GT is horribly slower than the 9800GTX

The AMD x2 3200+ rig will preform WAY better on any gaming title at any average gamer resolution (1680x1050) --- (1920x1200)

If you don't have time to read the whole thing read the conclusion!

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-gpu-upgrade,1928-20.html

or how about the page named Graphics Cards have More Potential

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-gpu-upgrade,1928-3.html

once again --- it's all about the GPU baby!
 
well if you play rts's it becomes
all about the cpu baby!!

while you might not be able to play at the graphic settings, you'll at least be able to play
5 minutes with supreme commander is my reference ;)
 
Archaea said:
You and Cannondale06 don't know what you are talking about.

It's been widely known for a LONG time that GPU has much more effect on gaming performance than CPU upgrades...If you can only afford one --- PICK GPU! Anytime you go up to a decent resolution the GPU is all that matters --- EVEN with an aging P4.

Did you even read the article....I didn't even have to read it to post my GPU bias response ----, being around hardware for 15 years is my refernce -- but apparently you both should read the referenced article and SEE how you gain a bit with the core 2 or quads but so much more with an upgraded video card!

Lets take examples of both

Q6600 with a 6800GT

vs.

AMD X2 3200+ with a 9800GTX

Q6600 is blazing faster than the X2 3200+
6800GT is horribly slower than the 9800GTX

The AMD x2 3200+ rig will preform WAY better on any gaming title at any average gamer resolution (1680x1050) --- (1920x1200)

If you don't have time to read the whole thing read the conclusion!

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-gpu-upgrade,1928-20.html

or how about the page named Graphics Cards have More Potential

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-gpu-upgrade,1928-3.html

once again --- it's all about the GPU baby!
Click to expand...
thanks for the ignorant post of the day. of course if someone had had to pick ONE thing to upgrade for gaming the gpu would be it. that doesnt mean that a high end video card would come any where close to its potential though.

perhaps YOU should have read a little more carefully on those pages. the OP has a fucking P4 so that would be significantly worse than the cpus that they already consider slow. get a grip on reality and realize that a good gpu is a waste of money on an outdated and slow single core cpu. :rolleyes:


"However, games are not 100% dependent on the graphics card the Geforce 8 and 9 require a basic level of power, otherwise they are unable to exploit their 3D potential. The speed of the CPU should lie somewhere between 2600 and 3000 MHz; any lower, and the new graphics chips lose considerable performance."

"If you wish to combine an E2160 with a Geforce 8800 Series or Geforce 9, you will need to overclock. Without a clock rate of at least 2400 MHz, you will lose a considerable amount of graphics performance, because the card is not fully loaded".

"The change to a new generation of graphics card achieves more, but the CPU should still have sufficient brawn to provide the basic level the card requires".

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-gpu-upgrade,1928-20.html
 
honestly though I have a p4 and I'm thinking about getting a 4850 way more then a new cpu
although that might be because nahelem isn't out yet
 
so cannondale, since I am not 100% sure ill ask you.

Since the parts you quoted and bolded stated a processor at least 2.4mhz, and the op's is a 3.0ghz then wouldn't what the guy is saying correct regardless if its a p4 or core 2 duo since what the article is refering to is raw clocks?
 
Also the OP is already getting a new graphics card and posed this question
Bigjmaster18 said:
How much will my Cpu and ram Bottleneck my new Ati 4870 that i will be ordering?
Click to expand...

I think that qualifies for a direct answer on how the CPU will be a bottleneck without wise arses trying to prove themselves right on a different topic.
 
Koroshiya said:
so cannondale, since I am not 100% sure ill ask you.

Since the parts you quoted and bolded stated a processor at least 2.4mhz, and the op's is a 3.0ghz then wouldn't what the guy is saying correct regardless if its a p4 or core 2 duo since what the article is refering to is raw clocks?
Click to expand...
a P4 at 3.0 cant even touch a 2.0 Core 2 in single threaded apps much less in modern games or apps that can utilize more than one core. A 3.0 P4 was slow even back in the days when it competed with a single core Athlon 64.
 
there is no way a new gpu is a waste of money
frames won't be as good a with a new cpu but the p4 should consistently get about 50 or 60 on most non cpu intensive game
which while a far cry short of what they could be, still playable
plus you can always upgrade stuff later
 
skatiN64 said:
there is no way a new gpu is a waste of money
frames won't be as good a with a new cpu but the p4 should consistently get about 50 or 60 on most non cpu intensive game
which while a far cry short of what they could be, still playable
plus you can always upgrade stuff later
Click to expand...
thats what you think and thats fine if someone is about to upgrade. other than that a P4 will make a high end card a a huge waste of money.
 
skatiN64 said:
there is no way a new gpu is a waste of money
frames won't be as good a with a new cpu but the p4 should consistently get about 50 or 60 on most non cpu intensive game
which while a far cry short of what they could be, still playable
plus you can always upgrade stuff later
Click to expand...

The op is already getting a new GPU.
He wants to know if a P4 will hold back his new card which it will.
 
I don't argue that it won't significantly hold back his card
but I still think a lot new games will be playable
 
cannondale06 said:
and significantly at that whether some of these guys get it or not. ;)
Click to expand...

Especially because the card he is thinking of will be hindered without PCI-Express 2.0 as well. But yes, it will give you an improvement to what you have, but you won't be able to utilize the FULL POTENTIAL of that card without upgrading everything else. Plus that is a high resolution even for systems now.

For an example, in an older rig of mine I had a Pentium D 820 and an ATi X850 Pro... Gamed well, but I upgraded to a Core 2 Duo E6300 and games did run smoother, faster and higher frame rates.
 
ZerazaX said:
Yeah you really don't need a Core 2 Quad for gaming yet. A E8400 3.0GHz dual core will game faster than a Q6600 will and it'll be a bit cheaper too. Or the E7200 for $120-130 and that will blow away the P4 easily as well.
Click to expand...

really? i dont really know much about Cpu's so could you explain a little bit more is it because quad cores arent fully utilized by most games or is there some other reason?
 
Bigjmaster18 said:
really? i dont really know much about Cpu's so could you explain a little bit more is it because quad cores arent fully utilized by most games or is there some other reason?
Click to expand...
Yes thats what he is saying because currently there are only a few games that actually take advantage of more than two cores. TBH if I was building/buying a new pc to last more than couple of years then quad core would be the way to go.
 
cannondale06 said:
Yes thats what he is saying because currently there are only a few games that actually take advantage of more than two cores. TBH if I was building/buying a new pc to last more than couple of years then quad core would be the way to go.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty unrealistic to build a pc to last more than a couple of years, or even a couple of years these days. The best you can do is pick a socket that will likely still be around in 18-24 months, then pick a CPU that is the best bang for the buck today (read: NOT a quad core), and then perhaps a year down the road upgrade to the best bang for the buck then.

At less than $200 per CPU upgrading it every 12-18 months shouldn't be an issue, and if it is, then the user has bigger problems than which CPU to pick.
 
Thuleman said:
I think it's pretty unrealistic to build a pc to last more than a couple of years, or even a couple of years these days. The best you can do is pick a socket that will likely still be around in 18-24 months, then pick a CPU that is the best bang for the buck today (read: NOT a quad core), and then perhaps a year down the road upgrade to the best bang for the buck then.

At less than $200 per CPU upgrading it every 12-18 months shouldn't be an issue, and if it is, then the user has bigger problems than which CPU to pick.
Click to expand...
well I hate to break it to you but most people keep their pc for many many years. also plenty of those people never upgrade anything. hell we are in an enthusiasts forum and there are shitloads of people with P4 systems. all I am saying is if you are the type of person that wants to keep the comp for more than a couple years then it would probably be better to quad core. theres no need to read too much into that. ;)
 
Alright I will most likely get the q6600 since I wont be upgrading my computer anymore for a long time after i get my video card

I have had my old one since 2003
 
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