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Bitcoin what?

T

t9alejandro

n00b
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
38
I don't know if this is the right thread but can someone please explain the concept of Bitcoin mining and why it's making prices of gpu's go up.
And is it worth trying out?for a profit that is
 
Google is your friend. But put simply, AMD cards are more efficient at mining bitcoins, litecoins, and other cryptocurrencies. At their current exchange rates, buying an AMD card and beating the crap out of it by mining is profitable depending on which currency one chooses to mine.

Miners are paying far above MSRP for AMD cards because they can still make money doing it, e-tailers are taking advantage of the situation by charging the prices they are, and the results are what you see now.

As far as whether it would be profitable for you, always a gamble. Good luck.
 
Chihlidog said:
Google is your friend. But put simply, AMD cards are more efficient at mining bitcoins, litecoins, and other cryptocurrencies. At their current exchange rates, buying an AMD card and beating the crap out of it by mining is profitable depending on which currency one chooses to mine.

Miners are paying far above MSRP for AMD cards because they can still make money doing it, e-tailers are taking advantage of the situation by charging the prices they are, and the results are what you see now.

As far as whether it would be profitable for you, always a gamble. Good luck.
Click to expand...

/thread
 
t9alejandro said:
I don't know if this is the right thread but can someone please explain the concept of Bitcoin mining and why it's making prices of gpu's go up.
And is it worth trying out?for a profit that is
Click to expand...
You must not have a search button available to you... and youve been banned from every search engine on the internet?
 
BitCoin is a digital currency with a finite amount of coins that can ever be produced. You artificially "mine" these coins by donating GPU time to break through a huge block of hashes (hence the crypto currency reference). When you meet an X amount you get a bit coin. AMD GPU's are the fastest, hence the shortage. The prices skyrocket higher than they normally should sell retail for is a market reaction toward supply and demand.

In a nutshell.
 
Technikal said:
Scroogle is no ones friend.

Use any search engine but Google imo.

But I know what you mean. It always amazes me how many questions people could find out on their own but don't.
Click to expand...

I wonder what they would have done before the internet. I usually research as much as I can and then ask what I really didn't understand or didn't find, but most people aren't willing to spend any time doing anything by themselves anymore.
 
Russian authorities say Bitcoin illegal..

http://news.msn.com/science-technology/russian-authorities-say-bitcoin-illegal

They feel bitcoin is a treat to there plans to overthrow the dollar.

"What we're witnessing and experiencing is a war between the keepers of the fiat system . . . and foreigners who have lost confidence in the U.S. dollar and confidence, for the most part, in fiat money. This is why all the emerging countries, China, Russia and the Asian countries, are all buying gold.
 
Even if the "keepers of the fiat system" did want to get rid of it they could, since SHA-2 was created by the NSA in the first place.
 
We have forums because people do not wish to surf the internet for an answer, period. In how many threads here could the answer be found by searching the web with the engine of choice(90-95%)? I also find that the tone of a thread is set by the first person that usually answers it. We all have a choice to reply to a post or not, there is no obligation. Liger88, You are the man!!! You rose above the fray.
 
The preferred [H] forum for Bitcoin discussion is Distributed Computing forum. You will find lots of discussion there related to Bitcoin, Litecoin, other crypto currencies, and lots of other DC related topics.
 
Ultima99 said:
The preferred [H] forum for Bitcoin discussion is Distributed Computing forum. You will find lots of discussion there related to Bitcoin, Litecoin, other crypto currencies, and lots of other DC related topics.
Click to expand...

This is a good place to start, indeed. I'll give you a few quick answers though. First of all, you are not going to be able to mine BitCoin itself with a GPU. At one time you could, but between the fact that you're late to the party and the difficulty of mining is way up and SHA256-solving ASICs (ie chips designed to do nothing but solve SHA256 and do it MUCH faster than a GPU ever could), BitCoin is not worth mining now unless you have a few thousand dollars to spend on ASICs.

However, there are a lot of alternative cryptocurrencies that run on an algorithm called "scrypt" the most famous of them being LiteCoin. These have resisted ASICs being created to mine them, so GPUs are still viable. You can of course trade these scrypt-based currencies for BitCoin, and sometimes directly for $ . From a GPU standpoint, AMD made GPUs do a LOT better for a given price level at mining than Nvidia ones too. This, as others have said, have jacked prices through the roof on AMD 78xx, 79xx even when used, and especially the new R9 series due to a combination of a shortage and huge demand. R9 290x cards that should be around $500, are well over $700 in some cases! You can wait awhile for things to die down, or you can keep your eyes on various in-stock and price trackers to get a deal now. Depending on 1) how much you want to invest and 2) if you're interested in exclusively gaming, exclusively mining, or both on the same machine, will govern what you should buy.

If you were going to buy a new GPU anyway for gaming, and want to make a few extra dollars, this IS possible by setting it up to mine when you're not at your PC or running 3D applications. However, you won't make a fortune. Its also important to consider your electric bill. If you want to invest and dive in to make $500+ a month on mined coins (not counting those you may hold to sell later as the price rises), you'll need to build a purpose built rig to mine 24/7!

You'll need to spend a little time learning how to configure the miners, and which coins you wish to mine, as well as getting wallet programs for each type of coin and learn to use them. For mining, you'll want to join a pool of other people working together and splitting the rewards most likely, so you'll need to learn and research which one is right for you with a given payout system etc... There are a ton of altcoins out there, but I suggest LiteCoin (the most stable "core" scrypt coin), Dogecoin (strangely popular and valuable at the moment), AnonCoin (one of the few coins that offers something technically beyond regular scrypt coins - it has built in support for darknets like i2p and Tor, though you can use it in the clear as well. Also, it is implementing the Zerocoin protocol, which is pretty damn amazing. Most other coins are basically copies of Litecoin, but Anoncoin is different), and perhaps finally WorldCoin ( could be promising too, positioning itself to be the currency of internet payments with cheapest fees).

There is an extensive thread in the distributed computing form that will help you further. Good luck
 
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Virtual mining is out of control. The logical end is that all electricity is devoted to creation of "money". One of the ethics tests they teach is "if everyone did it, would it continue to be viable?" (wrt the health of society, not financially.) If everyone burned 3 kwh 24/7 then it probably wouldn't work. Not enough electricity to go around.
 
the whole crypto currency subculture is absurd.


There exists a current (key in on that term, "current") finite mathematical probability of "x" amount of
values being derived in "y" amount of cycles...

thus, the measure of relative value, of the "coin", is derived from the relative difficulties in obtaining a valid value.


The issue is, that the moment a new technology (unpredictable, but certain) comes to bear, that reduces that time to achieve (TTA), then the relative value of the product diminishes something like 1,000-fold.

For those that don't understand, if you're in Ghana, and you're mining potatoes, by hand, with a wooden dowel as a shovel, then potatoes, would be worth x+ per bushel.
But If I fly to Ghana, with a backhoe and modern farming equipment, and commercialize the process, the value diminishes greatly. Sure it may remain profitable, but by no means is it a sustainable economic model.


in other words, it's a hedge. You hope you can discover, transfer, and convert into paper currency, something that in maybe what, 10-years, will probably be the technological equivalent of the Toaster oven...

No thanks.
 
Eminence_Front said:
the whole crypto currency subculture is absurd.


There exists a current (key in on that term, "current") finite mathematical probability of "x" amount of
values being derived in "y" amount of cycles...

thus, the measure of relative value, of the "coin", is derived from the relative difficulties in obtaining a valid value.


The issue is, that the moment a new technology (unpredictable, but certain) comes to bear, that reduces that time to achieve (TTA), then the relative value of the product diminishes something like 1,000-fold.

For those that don't understand, if you're in Ghana, and you're mining potatoes, by hand, with a wooden dowel as a shovel, then potatoes, would be worth x+ per bushel.
But If I fly to Ghana, with a backhoe and modern farming equipment, and commercialize the process, the value diminishes greatly. Sure it may remain profitable, but by no means is it a sustainable economic model.


in other words, it's a hedge. You hope you can discover, transfer, and convert into paper currency, something that in maybe what, 10-years, will probably be the technological equivalent of the Toaster oven...

No thanks.
Click to expand...

You clearly don't know anything about them then.

Difficultly scales to the network hashrate, so when it becomes easier to mine them the calculations get more complicated.
 
xorbe said:
Virtual mining is out of control. The logical end is that all electricity is devoted to creation of "money". One of the ethics tests they teach is "if everyone did it, would it continue to be viable?" (wrt the health of society, not financially.) If everyone burned 3 kwh 24/7 then it probably wouldn't work. Not enough electricity to go around.
Click to expand...
Sure it can be if you go wind or solar power.
 
I need this market to crash so i can build more affordable gaming machines for people
 
What I don't get is, what is the end result besides people making some money? Is there a benefit to the calculations? Like folding? Does it accomplish anything besides burning electricity?

I do predict a shit ton of used and abused gpu's flooding the market.
 
Cryptocurrency is a bubble thats going to burst. You cant pay your taxes with them, nor do they have any industrial or commercial value, unlike gold. When all the speculators turn into sellers, cryptocurrencies will end up inploding like any other pyramid scheme.
 
Chihlidog said:
At their current exchange rates, buying an AMD card and beating the crap out of it by mining is profitable depending on which currency one chooses to mine.
Click to expand...

This is relative...i use my card very efficiently. 70 core, 73 vrm - 20mV stock speeds. That's like - 24c drop from the official safe temp on core, and around 30/40 regarding vrm.
 
dragonageinquisition said:
Cryptocurrency is a bubble thats going to burst. You cant pay your taxes with them, nor do they have any industrial or commercial value, unlike gold. When all the speculators turn into sellers, cryptocurrencies will end up inploding like any other pyramid scheme.
Click to expand...

If anything is a bubble or pyramid scheme its fiat currencies like the US Dollar.
 
Spazturtle said:
If anything is a bubble or pyramid scheme its fiat currencies like the US Dollar.
Click to expand...

It's held up pretty well so far. Has the US dollar ever bubble ever popped in your lifetime? I can think of a few times crypto has in the past year. The only thing that's popped is amd video card gouging.
 
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lloose said:
It's held up pretty well so far. Has the US dollar ever bubble ever popped in your lifetime? I can think of a few times crypto has in the past year.
Click to expand...

Yes it has, as their are many more USD in circulation the BTC smaller changes make massive differences where as with BTC as a smaller number is in circulation by design small variations have little effect.

I've seen USD drop from 60mg to 18mg and stay down, now multiply that by the trillions of USD in existence

And thats just in my life, if we look at say my mothers 60 years on this planet, well then it gets much worse:

Je5iQ8H.png
 
Spazturtle said:
Yes it has, as their are many more USD in circulation the BTC smaller changes make massive differences where as with BTC as a smaller number is in circulation by design small variations have little effect.

I've seen USD drop from 60mg to 18mg and stay down, now multiply that by the trillions of USD in existence

And thats just in my life, if we look at say my mothers 60 years on this planet, well then it gets much worse:

Je5iQ8H.png
Click to expand...
You do realize that the US dollar has no relation to gold. That graph is useless, unless you want to by gold with USD or sell gold for USD and want to know its history. I could find a commodity that has a positive history with the USD to prove how completely pointless your graph was to this conversation but I am not going to waist my time. Oh and also commodity != currency. I am also sure that you have no idea how the federal reserve keeps control of the money supply.
 
[21CW]killerofall;1040615577 said:
You do realize that the US dollar has no relation to gold. That graph is useless, unless you want to by gold with USD or sell gold for USD and want to know its history. I could find a commodity that has a positive history with the USD to prove how completely pointless your graph was to this conversation but I am not going to waist my time. Oh and also commodity != currency. I am also sure that you have no idea how the federal reserve keeps control of the money supply.
Click to expand...


"You do realize that the US dollar has no relation to gold. That graph is useless,"
And BTC has no relation to USD

"I am also sure that you have no idea how the federal reserve keeps control of the money supply."

More money leaves the financial system then enters it, bankers are literally making up money. So so if the federal reserve are even trying to regulate the currency they are doing a shit job.
 
Spazturtle said:
If anything is a bubble or pyramid scheme its fiat currencies like the US Dollar.
Click to expand...

Goverment debt is a ponzi scheme but the us dollar is just another fiat currency. Bitcoins is a pyramid scheme because it requires new investers to cash out the old ones. Fiat currencies may have no inherent value like bitcoins but the differenece is bitcoin is voluntary, while government violence enforces the use of fiat currency among all citizens, so we are forced to participate at gunpoint. As long as government has a monopoly on force, we will continue to trade with fiat currency. However when there are more sellers than buyers, cryptocurrency will implode very quickly.
 
[21CW]killerofall;1040615577 said:
You do realize that the US dollar has no relation to gold. That graph is useless, unless you want to by gold with USD or sell gold for USD and want to know its history. I could find a commodity that has a positive history with the USD to prove how completely pointless your graph was to this conversation but I am not going to waist my time. Oh and also commodity != currency. I am also sure that you have no idea how the federal reserve keeps control of the money supply.
Click to expand...

Gold (and silver) are the only forms of legal tender according to the constitution. Just because we left the gold standard (and openly defied the constitution) in 1971 does not mean gold is a commodity. We will return to the gold standard eventually. No fiat currency stands the test of time, and since leaving the gold standard the dollar has lost 97%+ of its value in a mere 40 years. When government has the power to print money it will do so until the currency collapses. The continental dollar didnt last that long did it?
 
Bitcoin is more volatile than a lot of other currencies but mining paid for my last two years of video cards so I can't complain.
 
dragonageinquisition said:
Gold (and silver) are the only forms of legal tender according to the constitution. Just because we left the gold standard (and openly defied the constitution) in 1971 does not mean gold is a commodity. We will return to the gold standard eventually. No fiat currency stands the test of time, and since leaving the gold standard the dollar has lost 97%+ of its value in a mere 40 years. When government has the power to print money it will do so until the currency collapses. The continental dollar didnt last that long did it?
Click to expand...

Truth.
Throughout history. fiat has always ended up failing. Real money like gold and silver have been around forever and people still use it for trading now.
 
dragonageinquisition said:
Gold (and silver) are the only forms of legal tender according to the constitution. Just because we left the gold standard (and openly defied the constitution) in 1971 does not mean gold is a commodity.
Click to expand...
Gold *is* a commodity and the Constitution does not state that only gold and silver can be used as legal tender. When you actually read the relevant article in an attempt to prove me wrong you'll realize that someone explained something to you incorrectly or you misunderstood what they were telling you.
 
mope54 said:
Gold *is* a commodity and the Constitution does not state that only gold and silver can be used as legal tender. When you actually read the relevant article in an attempt to prove me wrong you'll realize that someone explained something to you incorrectly or you misunderstood what they were telling you.
Click to expand...

Then explain why we were on the gold standard until 1971. Why would government have remained with a sound money system for so long unless it felt it was the law of the land. No government would find reason to be fiscally constrained if it could print money. Thats a long list of presidents that seem to have felt compelled by some force to use gold as money.

Unless you are saying the neoliberal interpretation of the constitution invalidates hundreds of years of precedent.
 
dragonageinquisition said:
Then explain why we were on the gold standard until 1971. Why would government have remained with a sound money system for so long unless it felt it was the law of the land. No government would find reason to be fiscally constrained if it could print money. Thats a long list of presidents that seem to have felt compelled by some force to use gold as money.

Unless you are saying the neoliberal interpretation of the constitution invalidates hundreds of years of precedent.
Click to expand...
OK, a *quick* primer in Con-Law...but that's all I'm going to spoon feed you. You should look this stuff up for yourself so you can make an informed opinion and subsequently engage in discussions with the correct information.

Legal "precedent," or stare decisis rather, is a principle whereby courts adhere to past judicial decisions. It's a feature of common law. It's not relevant to this discussion unless we are talking about a long history of cases binding the court to rule that gold and silver are the only forms of legal tender in the US.

The relevant law on this is in the US Constitution, Article 1, Sections 8 and 10.
Please look them up and then correct whoever told you otherwise.
 
I'm so glad this was posted in the video card toilet..... Urmm..... subforum.
 
I hate these conversations about gold, commodity, and fiat currencies since bitcoin showed up. They sometimes start off as a conversation that feels like something you can participate in but in short order they're so full of half-truth, misconception, and straight made up bullshit it makes my eyes bleed.
 
Mister E said:
What I don't get is, what is the end result besides people making some money? Is there a benefit to the calculations? Like folding? Does it accomplish anything besides burning electricity?
Click to expand...

The computational work that is being done is verification of bitcoin transactions - all of them, both current and past - largely to prevent double-spending.

Double-spending is a form of fraud particular to digital money, in which you spend a coin and then cover up the evidence that you spent it, so you can spend it again.

So, it's quite understandable that the very recent discovery that Bitcoin is vulnerable to double-spending is upsetting.
 
dragonageinquisition said:
Bitcoins is a pyramid scheme because it requires new investers to cash out the old ones.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. No more than gold, anyway. These things are traded on an exchange. The value fluctuates (it can go up, down, sideways) according to supply and demand. It may be a bubble, but it cannot be a pyramid scheme because that would require an entity with central control over bitcoin and its price.

Gold is essentially not worth very much as a substance. It has some industrial value, but the only thing that makes it worth over 1000$ an ounce is that it is rare and sought after, guaranteed low inflation. So it is an interesting vessel to store value in unlike fiat currency which gets worth less every second it's in your wallet. The bitcoin price is very similar to the gold price in that regard. Except that it's so new and unconventional that it doesn't have the history of trust which gold has. If tomorrow everybody tries to sell their gold they'll get peanuts for it.

About the "flaw" - it's a long known issue which is not new and which is not actually an issue because everybody knows you wait for X confirmations before you trust a transaction. If Mt.Gox lost BTC via this non-exploit it is the result of their boneheaded programming. Pretty much everyone now feels Gox should just die, we'll get over it.
 
Yeah this is really annoying. I was putting off my big rig upgrade until 2014 and of course now, not only have prices not dropped, they have actually increased quite a bit since I last looked. All I want to do is play some video games on high quality for once lol. I don't care about mining cat coins or whatever the hell the newest rage is.

Hopefully this all collapses soon and I can pick up a solid card or two for CHEAP :D
 
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