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Bitcoin Discussion Thread

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I'm confused on how to buy/sell BTC. Do I have to put money into Dwolla first and then transfer to Mt Gox or can I go right to Mt Gox?
 
computerpro3 said:
Honestly, I'm hoping a massive selloff will occur. Think about it. Bitcoins are bitcoins, no matter where it happens. If people start selling and the price tanks, you can purchase at mtgox for dirt cheap and then sit low.

The question is, how do I get funds in position to take advantage of it? mtgox is down so I can't initiate a transfer. I have $150 in dwolla, but that's not much plus it will take a day or so to show up in mtgox I think.

To those of you saying "it hasn't crashed the market," it probably HAS and you just don't know about it because the exchanges are shut down. I'll bet my life we see single digits when trading resumes.
Click to expand...

I don't use mtgox, but wouldn't you just simply move the bitcoins you have there to somewhere else instead of selling them? :confused:

If the rollback is before the flood, prices are back high and if a selloff does occur, I would think the big account holders will be waiting with baited breath and then bring the prices back up higher so they can unload them and make a quick & HUGE profit.

I think the rewards would outweigh the risk.
 
eh, IMO I would not be doing any buying, period. Or even purchasing hardware to mine. Now mining with existing hardware is fine, otherwise there is too much risk.
 
Yakk said:
I don't use mtgox, but wouldn't you just simply move the bitcoins you have there to somewhere else instead of selling them? :confused:

If the rollback is before the flood, prices are back high and if a selloff does occur, I would think the big account holders will be waiting with baited breath and then bring the prices back up higher so they can unload them and make a quick & HUGE profit.

I think the rewards would outweigh the risk.
Click to expand...

You don't understand how small the market is and how stupid people are that use bitcoin. We learned that the TOTAL market size is 60k accounts. Many of those are duplicates or accounts like testaccount1 testaccount2.

You're going to have a significant amount of people who got freaked out that have relatively small holdings that are "done" with mtgox and bitcoin. They'll just sell and forget about it.

To illustrate the stupidity, check out this thread:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19700.0

They actually think google downloaded the .CSV, checked the account names, and forced them to change their password as premtive security.

In actuality, what happened was thousands of people tried to login to their gmail account with the password from the .csv and it auto shutdown the account.

People are idiots, and their idiocy will make me a lot of money - again.

EDIT: Didn't realize they had a regular on the forums who is a Google employee. Still skeptical but at least it makes more sense now.
 
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computerpro3 said:
You don't understand how small the market is and how stupid people are that use bitcoin. We learned that the TOTAL market size is 60k accounts. Many of those are duplicates or accounts like testaccount1 testaccount2.

You're going to have a significant amount of people who got freaked out that have relatively small holdings that are "done" with mtgox and bitcoin. They'll just sell and forget about it.

To illustrate the stupidity, check out this thread:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19700.0

They actually think google downloaded the .CSV, checked the account names, and forced them to change their password as premtive security.

In actuality, what happened was thousands of people tried to login to their gmail account with the password from the .csv and it auto shutdown the account.

People are idiots, and their idiocy will make me a lot of money - again.
Click to expand...

I believe Google did in fact verify this list :

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19641.msg245983#msg245983

Mike has been very active with bitcoin from what I'm reading.
 
Yakk said:
I believe Google did in fact verify this list :

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19641.msg245983#msg245983

Mike has been very active with bitcoin from what I'm reading.
Click to expand...

So 'computerpro3' insults anybody involved with Bitcoins by saying 'how stupid people are that use bitcoin', then says a thread he linked illustrates that stupidity because people said Google had gotten the CSV and preemptively asked people in it to change their password. Then it turns out HE is the one that just insulted everybody, and proved himself to be the one completely in the wrong since Google DID download the CSV file and preemptively ask everybody listed in it to change their passwords.
 
besides

spendcoint
mt gox
eggbit

what are some other places that accept bitcoin?
 
Ualdayan said:
So 'computerpro3' insults anybody involved with Bitcoins by saying 'how stupid people are that use bitcoin', then says a thread he linked illustrates that stupidity because people said Google had gotten the CSV and preemptively asked people in it to change their password. Then it turns out HE is the one that just insulted everybody, and proved himself to be the one completely in the wrong since Google DID download the CSV file and preemptively ask everybody listed in it to change their passwords.
Click to expand...


I never said that everyone who uses bitcoin is stupid, just many. This is an objective fact. The bitcoin forums are filled with people who just signed up and have no idea how to:

A. Build a computer
B. Understand what bitcoin even is
C: Understand any sort of economic theory.

Yet, they go dropping thousands on hardware (many on credit), making ludicrous trades, and spouting off "fundamental economic analysis" threads that don't have a sliver of real economics in them. 99% of people in the Economics forum there probably don't even know what Keynesian means.

Just look at the forums! There are plenty of knowledgeable users there, but it's also filled with conspiracy theorists, complete noobs, hippies that heard about bitcoin on the radio, and people who post stuff like "My analysis of why bitcoin is fundamentally worth $2000 per coin."

There is a huge, huge, huge amount of ignorance on that board. Hell, there are at least ten threads alone saying things like "Thank God we survived, price is still $17.50!"

Also, "Google" did not preemptively apply security measures. "Google" didn't download the file. An active bitcoin member as a HOBBYIST just so happened to be a Google employee and intervened. My situation is far more plausible - it's just a statistical anomaly that Google happened to have an employee who was involved as a HOBBYIST.

Google did not ask everyone to change their passwords. I am on the list, have a gmail address, that address is clearly exposed, and got no mail.

You're a perfect example of the hysteria and naivety that I've been profiting hugely off of in the last couple weeks. The price will drop when trading resumes, I'll buy more coins, and make even more money.

I love this bitcoin thing.
 
Yeah I think I'm gonna go ahead and try to sell my 5830s and my 5770 tomorrow. I was starting to get into get rid of hardware mode anyways before I jumped on this bitcoin bandwagon, and I spent a little more than I should have, lol. I had that problem on occasion back when I folded.
 
Wow, so this whole thing was caused by one of their auditor's computer being compromised?

Might be a good idea to verify your auditors aren't full retard before you give them access to the database.
 
Ualdayan said:
So 'computerpro3' insults anybody involved with Bitcoins by saying 'how stupid people are that use bitcoin', then says a thread he linked illustrates that stupidity because people said Google had gotten the CSV and preemptively asked people in it to change their password. Then it turns out HE is the one that just insulted everybody, and proved himself to be the one completely in the wrong since Google DID download the CSV file and preemptively ask everybody listed in it to change their passwords.
Click to expand...

He's pretty much right. Pro Bitcoin people aren't too smart.
 
computerpro3 said:
I never said that everyone who uses bitcoin is stupid, just many. This is an objective fact. The bitcoin forums are filled with people who just signed up and have no idea how to:

A. Build a computer
B. Understand what bitcoin even is
C: Understand any sort of economic theory.

Yet, they go dropping thousands on hardware (many on credit), making ludicrous trades, and spouting off "fundamental economic analysis" threads that don't have a sliver of real economics in them. 99% of people in the Economics forum there probably don't even know what Keynesian means.

Just look at the forums! There are plenty of knowledgeable users there, but it's also filled with conspiracy theorists, complete noobs, hippies that heard about bitcoin on the radio, and people who post stuff like "My analysis of why bitcoin is fundamentally worth $2000 per coin."

There is a huge, huge, huge amount of ignorance on that board. Hell, there are at least ten threads alone saying things like "Thank God we survived, price is still $17.50!"

Also, "Google" did not preemptively apply security measures. "Google" didn't download the file. An active bitcoin member as a HOBBYIST just so happened to be a Google employee and intervened. My situation is far more plausible - it's just a statistical anomaly that Google happened to have an employee who was involved as a HOBBYIST.

Google did not ask everyone to change their passwords. I am on the list, have a gmail address, that address is clearly exposed, and got no mail.

You're a perfect example of the hysteria and naivety that I've been profiting hugely off of in the last couple weeks. The price will drop when trading resumes, I'll buy more coins, and make even more money.

I love this bitcoin thing.
Click to expand...


What you just described has been going on for hundreds of years. Its called markets. And markets attract participants from all degrees of the spectrum. No different than packing or shit into a wagon and oregon trailing it 2000 miles to shovel dirt, in the hopes you find a yellow shiny rock. Some make out, the majority don't. Bitcoins is no different.
I admit I've been involved in Bitcoins for a few months, but have no more than 500 bucks involved. Main reason why I mined and traded the coins is because it is fun. It's alot more fun than trading established markets like NYSE and Nasdaq. It almost reminds me of Jesse Livermore days.

That said, I was well aware that there is basically no security, the people who run the exchanges are shady, and bitcoins might end up worthless. That is a risk every investor/speculator agrees to. There are no gaurantees.

As to your prediction the price will crash, it is a possibility, but it might not happen the way you think. The main reason is people have lost confidence in MTGox. The only thing they will do is try to withdraw their funds. And what is the quickest way to withdraw funds??? It is not a transfer of dollars, that can take days if not weeks. It is a transfer of bitcoins, which happens pretty much instantly. If people withdraw their bitcoins, they will not sell it on the exchange. And bids will not get hit. Thats my prediction, people will initially withdraw their bitcoins. The price might actually go up a little because of less sellers, as crazy as that sounds. And some time later the price will drift down, because the long term damage has been done(meltdown). If you wanted to sell I think you can sell at a decent price.
 
Parja said:
Wow, so this whole thing was caused by one of their auditor's computer being compromised?

Might be a good idea to verify your auditors aren't full retard before you give them access to the database.
Click to expand...

Might also be a good idea not to place tons of real money into a market whose value is based solely on the speculation of teen and 20-something year old computer nerds ;)
 
Going back to my earlier karma issues with having problems when contemplating hardware expansion, The attack occurred while I was asking an uncle about his electronics and if he had any suppliers with stocks of late 2009 computer equipment.
 
Uncle Humjaba said:
Might also be a good idea not to place tons of real money into a market whose value is based solely on the speculation of teen and 20-something year old computer nerds ;)
Click to expand...

Gotta love trolls.

Uncle Humjaba
"Posting in this thread so I can come back when all the people who spent $xxx building farms this week come crying about how something went wrong xD "

Uncle Humjaba
"So... What happens when you pay for something physical (say a used computer or something) in bitcoin and the person you paid never sends what you paid them for? "

Uncle Humjaba
"Yay for cheap radeon hardware showing up on ebay and FS threads soon! "
 
Teenyman45 said:
Going back to my earlier karma issues with having problems when contemplating hardware expansion, The attack occurred while I was asking an uncle about his electronics and if he had any suppliers with stocks of late 2009 computer equipment.
Click to expand...

Did you happen to sign up for a couple of Sony accounts in the past few weeks? :p
 
This karma has only applied to bitcoin expansion efforts. I've never even bought a PS3 or a 360. There were never really any games on either system that I wanted
 
infect0 said:
Gotta love trolls.

Uncle Humjaba
"Posting in this thread so I can come back when all the people who spent $xxx building farms this week come crying about how something went wrong xD "

Uncle Humjaba
"So... What happens when you pay for something physical (say a used computer or something) in bitcoin and the person you paid never sends what you paid them for? "

Uncle Humjaba
"Yay for cheap radeon hardware showing up on ebay and FS threads soon! "
Click to expand...

Not trolling at all. I predicted it would take about a week before something massive happened, and it took less. Middle post was an honest question, because I failed (and still fail) to see the use of bitcoins for anything of tangible value. With an anonymous system you're relying on strangers to make good on their word, which seems dumb to me. Accountability is good when finances are involved, in my opinion.
 
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Ualdayan said:
So 'computerpro3' insults anybody involved with Bitcoins by saying 'how stupid people are that use bitcoin', then says a thread he linked illustrates that stupidity because people said Google had gotten the CSV and preemptively asked people in it to change their password. Then it turns out HE is the one that just insulted everybody, and proved himself to be the one completely in the wrong since Google DID download the CSV file and preemptively ask everybody listed in it to change their passwords.
Click to expand...

Yeah it was pretty funny... I laughed... :D

More seriously, fact of the matter is an exchange, such as bitcoin, needs this type of thinking (leaving out the attitude...). Naive yes, but needed nonetheless, else there would be NO rebound in the market. It's that type of thinking that creates BUY opportunities and would slow down a market tumble should a sell-off happen. Not enough of them, the tumble just keeps steamrolling downhill and the exchange disintegrates.

A market always needs someone to think themselves smarter than others and therefore want to capitalize on a given opportunity (legally) to create profit. If it works, profit will attract others... the enemy to a market is when nobody thinks they can make profit. Hence my earlier post when I wrote about someone with a HUGE account can cash in, and the market would rebound. Small accounts can ride that wave and possibly make a little money in the process.

mtgox only has 60k accounts, very little, maybe, what 30-40k individuals? Other exchanges may have a few 1000's each also. Yet it has already attracted the attention of some government officials around the world, so there is some curiosity. In a lot of countries you just exchange bitcoins directly for cash, nevermind amazon or newegg coupons.

That all this was able to be created in a few years is what I find interesting.

Philanthropy this is not unfortunately, most unfortunately... as we can notice, this is why bitcoin may not attract the same kind of people as with boinc or folding projects... this is a business project.
 
bitcoins like all other mediums of exchange including dollars, yen, euro, and yuan, there is no tangible value beyond what the money is physically made out of. There is only the faith that is placed in the money. The more people that accept the money the more real it becomes. The recent DDoS attacks on the exchanges and especially this attack are heavily blows against the trustworthiness and therefore reality of bitcoin as a currency.
 
computerpro3 said:
The price will drop when trading resumes, I'll buy more coins, and make even more money.

I love this bitcoin thing.
Click to expand...

the price was pretty steady at TradeHill until they suspended trading as well, no...? if anything a boatload of people will try to switch their Mt Gox accounts to TradeHill, I don't think it'll fall that far...
 
wol-va-rine said:
the price was pretty steady at TradeHill until they suspended trading as well, no...? if anything a boatload of people will try to switch their Mt Gox accounts to TradeHill, I don't think it'll fall that far...
Click to expand...

It went down to 13 when they stopped trading. That's what made it appear "steady." Also keep in mind, people had no way to get funds or BTC in or out of tradehill or mtgox. Hard to selloff when you have nothing to sell.
 
Uncle Humjaba said:
Not trolling at all. I predicted it would take about a week before something massive happened, and it took less. Middle post was an honest question, because I failed (and still fail) to see the use of bitcoins for anything of tangible value. With an anonymous system you're relying on strangers to make good on their word, which seems dumb to me. Accountability is good when finances are involved, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

my $25 6850 isn't of "tangible value"...? there are numerous instances of people in this very thread that have tangible things (good ol' USD or hardware) to show for their bitcoins, so I guess I don't understand why it's so hard for you to "see" that...
 
Uncle Humjaba said:
Not trolling at all. I predicted it would take about a week before something massive happened, and it took less. Middle post was an honest question, because I failed (and still fail) to see the use of bitcoins for anything of tangible value. With an anonymous system you're relying on strangers to make good on their word, which seems dumb to me. Accountability is good when finances are involved, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I have half a dozen 1oz silver eagles I've bought for spot price from BTC. They seem pretty tangible.
 
There is huge potential tangible value for bitcoin, and in my opinion it's as an all-encompassing internet payment system - not as a competitive currency to the USD, which I never believe it will be.

Honestly, it may find its niche in wiping out paypal. If user friendly clients get invented, it's superior in nearly every way. All it will take is:

1. Reliable exchange to be created
2. A major retailer to accept it first party

I would LOVE to see paypal go down.
 
computerpro3 said:
There is huge potential tangible value for bitcoin, and in my opinion it's as an all-encompassing internet payment system - not as a competitive currency to the USD, which I never believe it will be.

Honestly, it may find its niche in wiping out paypal. If user friendly clients get invented, it's superior in nearly every way. All it will take is:

1. Reliable exchange to be created
2. A major retailer to accept it first party

I would LOVE to see paypal go down.
Click to expand...

As soon as you get widespread adoption though, you find out there aren't enough bitcoins to go around. 21mil total? 6.5m currently...to be able to do a decent volume of business you'll be looking at the $50,000 bitcoin.
 
Kueller said:
As soon as you get widespread adoption though, you find out there aren't enough bitcoins to go around. 21mil total? 6.5m currently...to be able to do a decent volume of business you'll be looking at the $50,000 bitcoin.
Click to expand...

Major issue holding it back I think as well. I think there is a mental block against doing business in very small fractions from a marketing sense.

Ie, a new TV for 0.0005643 BTC.
 
That's an easily fixable issue. Move the decimal point over in the clients, or have different official units of currency like bitdime, bitnickel, etc, etc.

I cannot stress enough the importance of creating a more friendly user interface. They accomplish that, and they have a real shot at some sort of success.

Not USD fighting success, but more as a complement.
 
SilverSliver said:
I have half a dozen 1oz silver eagles I've bought for spot price from BTC. They seem pretty tangible.
Click to expand...

But as a US citizen living in the united states, why should I use btc instead of usd? I have no guarantee that the guy Im sending bitcoins to will give me what I'm paying for, unless I use a mediator. And at that point, it just becomes the same thing as paypal, or google checkout.
 
Uncle Humjaba said:
But as a US citizen living in the united states, why should I use btc instead of usd? I have no guarantee that the guy Im sending bitcoins to will give me what I'm paying for, unless I use a mediator. And at that point, it just becomes the same thing as paypal, or google checkout.
Click to expand...

This is my point.

You shouldn't use it instead of USD for local purchases.

But you SHOULD use it instead of paypal for internet purchases. It's much cheaper in fees, and more secure.
 
Uncle Humjaba said:
But as a US citizen living in the united states, why should I use btc instead of usd? I have no guarantee that the guy Im sending bitcoins to will give me what I'm paying for, unless I use a mediator. And at that point, it just becomes the same thing as paypal, or google checkout.
Click to expand...

If I could print USD on my computer I would. I don't give two shits about them long term viability of BTC. I just know I am making easy, extra cash for the time being. That's tangible.
 
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