Why not just settle it? Why don't you give us some performance numbers with AA using Fraps.
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Bit-tech tests Bioshock
- Thread starter Matas
- Start date
Why not just settle it? Why don't you give us some performance numbers with AA using Fraps.
Hrmmm, were you one of the folks that suggested that for DX9 there would be no way that the 2900XT could match up with the 8800 GTX? Pooh-poohing and belittling by claiming to forsee such was to believe in "driver magic"?
Looks like someone at ATI hooked up with Tinkerbell, huh?Anyway yeah, I'm not concerned about future DX10 games with the 2900XT. Just like I wasn't all tha concerned that the 2900XT would match up well against the more expensive GTX in the long run. Your braying and belittling, if anything, convincing me further of that.
Eastcoasthandle
[H]ard|Gawd
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I am entitled to my opinion no different then anyone else. You argue so much that you lost focus.
This is a good example of what I stated earlier.
I didn't ask you to recall it, you are arguing in general. What I provided about TWIMTBP was not my opinion but a direct quote, deal with it.
It doesn't change my view.
Oh really? Yet you still put forth the effort to continue this argument.
There is nothing special about it. You are the one who is making it special by arguing.
The R600 can hold it's own in this game. It shouldn't mean anything to others who do not play the game or use the R600.
Eastcoasthandle
[H]ard|Gawd
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Hrmmm, were you one of the folks that suggested that for DX9 there would be no way that the 2900XT could match up with the 8800 GTX? Pooh-poohing and belittling by claiming to forsee such was to believe in "driver magic"?
Anyway yeah, I'm not concerned about future DX10 games with the 2900XT. Just like I wasn't all tha concerned that the 2900XT would match up well against the more expensive GTX in the long run. Your braying and belittling, if anything, convincing me further of that.
Good point
Their Manhood has been questioned and there can be no winner without one laying dead until his poor choice of a video card!What are you guys arguing about? It's like little girls playing patty cake.
EastCoast and Marvelous.
You both need to carpool to a counselor post haste.
I haven't seen fanboyism like this in quite a while. Why isn't this thread locked?
You are both thrown a crumb in a single bench under XP DX9 only, and it's the second coming to you guys.
Truth is, it seems the 2900XT will play the game fine. You guys are really forgetting that that is all that matters.
You both need to carpool to a counselor post haste.
I haven't seen fanboyism like this in quite a while. Why isn't this thread locked?
You are both thrown a crumb in a single bench under XP DX9 only, and it's the second coming to you guys.
Truth is, it seems the 2900XT will play the game fine. You guys are really forgetting that that is all that matters.
Looks like you need more help than anyone here. I haven't seen undercover fanboyism quite like you in a long time. So you attack on who stick up for ATI but not Nvidia in this thread?
I guess I like computer technology. I like both Nvidia's and ATI offering... I'm really a fanboy in desguise don't tell anyone okay.
Oops sorry, 1680 x 1050.
The secret is out!I like both Nvidia's and ATI offering... I'm really a fanboy in desguise don't tell anyone okay.
MrWizard6600
Supreme [H]ardness
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im sorry, I glanced over this thread and was somewhat nausiated by some of the childish arguements.
A word to the wise, if you start using words like "moron", "stupid", "pathetic," etc., your far too concerned about the issue, and should remove your subscription to the thread before the mod/admins start handing out vacation orders.
next up, zis game:
below rig coupled with 22" monitor @ 1620 X 1050 leads to perfectly playable framerates with, unfortunately, significant tearing, keeping in mind I'm running 64bit vista.
And why is everyone calling this direct X 10? its clear its use of the extra functions SM 4.0 are limited as even a 3.0 bound rig can do the really cool water effects, the only complaint being the dumb looking smoke. All recent games bearing Nvidia's logo have had super good looking smoke effects, so it would seem to me Nvidia has a library that includes some mighty fine smoke.
And last: the 360 uses a unified architecture (core code name "R500") similar to that of the R600, so i suspect you'll start to see them perform similarly.
A word to the wise, if you start using words like "moron", "stupid", "pathetic," etc., your far too concerned about the issue, and should remove your subscription to the thread before the mod/admins start handing out vacation orders.
next up, zis game:
below rig coupled with 22" monitor @ 1620 X 1050 leads to perfectly playable framerates with, unfortunately, significant tearing
, keeping in mind I'm running 64bit vista.And why is everyone calling this direct X 10? its clear its use of the extra functions SM 4.0 are limited as even a 3.0 bound rig can do the really cool water effects, the only complaint being the dumb looking smoke. All recent games bearing Nvidia's logo have had super good looking smoke effects, so it would seem to me Nvidia has a library that includes some mighty fine smoke.
And last: the 360 uses a unified architecture (core code name "R500") similar to that of the R600, so i suspect you'll start to see them perform similarly.
Looks like you need more help than anyone here. I haven't seen undercover fanboyism quite like you in a long time. So you attack on who stick up for ATI but not Nvidia in this thread?
I guess I like computer technology. I like both Nvidia's and ATI offering... I'm really a fanboy in desguise don't tell anyone okay.
I'm saying, be civil. Conduct a conversation. Stop telling people to re-read your posts, because once is enough. One really good benchmark in bioshock under DX9 on a 2900XT and it's like someone threw fertilizer on a dormant weed. All sprung up and tries to consume any opposition. Keep it real why don't you. My second 2900XT is on it's way.
I don't see anything that is not civil about my post perhaps if people can accept that a $400 2900xt can pull higher frames than a $600 8800ultra in windows xp people wouldn't even be arguing about this. Is it not possible for ATI to get their shit together with Vista performance as well if they can pull 50% faster speeds in windows xp?
Bioshock is an important game because it reinforces what unreal 3 engine does for 2900xt. Many more games are based on this particular engine. Vegas, Bioshock, Gears of War, Unreal 3 and the list goes on. Something you'll actually play.
Ah, I see what the problem is. It's your wording. Look at what I bolded above. Whats wrong with that sentence? You tell me.
Of course its possible that AMD (not ATI) has their shit together already. I see where you're coming from though. You believe that if AMD can do better than a 8800Ultra in Bioshock in DX9 under XP, then they can do anything. That is a total wait and see thing, and shouldn't be said as if it's a done deal. There is only so much that can be done with drivers, until the architecture gets in the way. 2900XT architecture is kind of goofy (inefficient in spite of it's incredible specs). A good card however. Else I wouldn't be buying my second one.
Looks like you need more help than anyone here. I haven't seen undercover fanboyism quite like you in a long time. So you attack on who stick up for ATI but not Nvidia in this thread?
I guess I like computer technology. I like both Nvidia's and ATI offering... I'm really a fanboy in desguise don't tell anyone okay.
Thats because hes a NV fan. Tries to play the impartial card, but its pretty clear to see thats not the case.
Funny to see I was right, way back in the beginning of this thread. I said NV fans wouldnt like it, and wouldnt want to believe it.
Just to show how big of a performance difference a video card can have with a driver update:
On the 8600GT:
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=637&p=4
First it was under Forceware 158.19 drivers:
Company of Heroes
1600x1200 = 11.6fps
Negitive 17.7% slower than a 7600 GT (So Sad!!)
Then Forceware drivers were upgraded to Forceware 158.22 drivers:
Company of Heroes
1600x1200 = 24.9fps
76.5% faster than 7600 GT (Much Better!!)
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=637&p=6
That is about a 94% increase of speed over the 7600 GT on Company of Heros, just by a driver update alone.
Not too shabby of a performance gain, and makes me think that one of Nvidia's later driver revisions should have been available for some of the initial reviews on this card. They might have been a bit less harsh. Now I am on Forceware driver version 163.86 so it might even be faster over 158.22?
This is a good case number to quote to the ATI R600 boys, looking for a performance increase from their next driver update.
I would referance docket number 158.22: On the matter of the Nvidia GeForce 8600 GT vs GeForce 7600 GT, with driver update alone, realized a 94% performance gain on Company of Heros at a 1600x1200 resolution, when compared to the GeForce 7600 GT at the same resolution.
The court recognizes this to be a fact, so it is possible on diver update alone to see a kick a$$ game performance increase....
I have seen some comments posted where people did not think a new driver can improve hardware performance much...
I believe that to be an incorrect assumption.
The driver is always the key to unlock the hardware's potential.
On the 8600GT:
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=637&p=4
First it was under Forceware 158.19 drivers:
Company of Heroes
1600x1200 = 11.6fps
Negitive 17.7% slower than a 7600 GT (So Sad!!)
Then Forceware drivers were upgraded to Forceware 158.22 drivers:
Company of Heroes
1600x1200 = 24.9fps
76.5% faster than 7600 GT (Much Better!!)
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=637&p=6
That is about a 94% increase of speed over the 7600 GT on Company of Heros, just by a driver update alone.
Not too shabby of a performance gain, and makes me think that one of Nvidia's later driver revisions should have been available for some of the initial reviews on this card. They might have been a bit less harsh. Now I am on Forceware driver version 163.86 so it might even be faster over 158.22?
This is a good case number to quote to the ATI R600 boys, looking for a performance increase from their next driver update.
I would referance docket number 158.22: On the matter of the Nvidia GeForce 8600 GT vs GeForce 7600 GT, with driver update alone, realized a 94% performance gain on Company of Heros at a 1600x1200 resolution, when compared to the GeForce 7600 GT at the same resolution.
The court recognizes this to be a fact, so it is possible on diver update alone to see a kick a$$ game performance increase....
I have seen some comments posted where people did not think a new driver can improve hardware performance much...
I believe that to be an incorrect assumption.
The driver is always the key to unlock the hardware's potential.
Yeah don't use bad words to offend people. Because it's bad. You can annoy people though.
I've got to give you that, dude, you certainly are the Duracell Bunny of churning out content that rubs people up the wrong way
Have a wank, mate; I think it'd do you wonders I've got to give you that, dude, you certainly are the Duracell Bunny of churning out content that rubs people up the wrong way
I just learned this recently from some people I've had to deal with. Sometimes in the heat of arguments or discussions you kind of get carried away and start name calling and it does happen and you would be the one in trouble. Instead keep your cool and say stupid things that doesn't make sense or repeat same thing over and over again.
Mods don't care long as you follow the rules it seems. They aren't logical. They just ban people who break rules repeatedly.Ackmed, just close your hypersensitive yap please. I own both ATI and NV currently and buying a second XT. How much more impartial do you want me to be?
Your favorite words are:
Funny
Ignorant
The fact is
And we don't get much more out of you. You're a waste of posting space. Always. At least marvelous has points. You seldom ever do.
I am impressed however, at your improvement over at AT forums. But I guess that's because there is pressure on you there to do so.
Over here, your just the same as you always were. "Grumble grumble NVfans grumble funny grumble the fact is grumble nitpick grumble ignorant grumble".
Ackmed vs Rollo. Now those were some fun times!
Anybody notice that Nvidia's numbers are actually higher in DX10 vs DX9? That's a first isn't it?
And I thought DX10 provided support for AA in deferred shading engines like UT3. Where is that support in Bioshock?
Anybody notice that Nvidia's numbers are actually higher in DX10 vs DX9? That's a first isn't it?
And I thought DX10 provided support for AA in deferred shading engines like UT3. Where is that support in Bioshock?
Ackmed vs Rollo. Now those were some fun times!
Anybody notice that Nvidia's numbers are actually higher in DX10 vs DX9? That's a first isn't it?
And I thought DX10 provided support for AA in deferred shading engines like UT3. Where is that support in Bioshock?
Yes, I think its a first.
I don't know about DX10 yet, but I was able to override AA for Bioshock in NV control panel under XP.. Chose 4x and it looks like it worked. Framerates dropped a touch, but well above playable.
I might try this under Vista later today.
Ah, I see what the problem is. It's your wording. Look at what I bolded above. Whats wrong with that sentence? You tell me.
Of course its possible that AMD (not ATI) has their shit together already. I see where you're coming from though. You believe that if AMD can do better than a 8800Ultra in Bioshock in DX9 under XP, then they can do anything. That is a total wait and see thing, and shouldn't be said as if it's a done deal. There is only so much that can be done with drivers, until the architecture gets in the way. 2900XT architecture is kind of goofy (inefficient in spite of it's incredible specs). A good card however. Else I wouldn't be buying my second one.
I thought you read my post but you just wanted to be undercover fanboi and attack with people who stand up for ATI.
They can't do everything but they can actually improve vista drivers for bioshock. It's more of a possibility because in windows xp 2900xt gets 50% more frame rates.
I thought you read my post but you just wanted to be undercover fanboi and attack with people who stand up for ATI.
They can't do everything but they can actually improve vista drivers for bioshock. It's more of a possibility because in windows xp 2900xt gets 50% more frame rates.
I suppose you're going to tell me to re-read your post? I read your posts. That's why I'm talking with you. Sheesh. Anyway, I have a thick skin. Call me what you like, but I know better. When somebody dwindles down to saying "fanboi" in every post, they have lost my attention, and respect if there was any. I'm aware that you do not care about such things. Hence you're personality. Makes sense.
Maybe you should re-read. Why is that you only attack 2 people who here defend on ATI's opposition? People should be happy with the results when $400 card beats out a $600 card in windows xp. But do we? no we've got people bashing ATI and AMD for not beating and 8800gtx in vista but in reality it's neck and neck with 8800gts its real competitor.
I just learned this recently from some people I've had to deal with. Sometimes in the heat of arguments or discussions you kind of get carried away and start name calling and it does happen and you would be the one in trouble. Instead keep your cool and say stupid things that doesn't make sense or repeat same thing over and over again.
I guess the Mods would struggle to justify a ban, simply on the basis of someone being deemed stupid and/or annoying. Interesting tactic
Maybe you should re-read. Why is that you only attack 2 people who here defend on ATI's opposition? People should be happy with the results when $400 card beats out a $600 card in windows xp. But do we? no we've got people bashing ATI and AMD for not beating and 8800gtx in vista but in reality it's neck and neck with 8800gts its real competitor.
You more than merely defend, but get preachy and a bit precognitive in your thoughts.. I know the 2900XT is a great card. Just as good as my 8800GTS in most cases. I conducted my own set of benchmarks in June to verify this.
So telling me a 2900XT is neck and neck with a 8800GTS is right on the money. And something I already knew.
As for attacking? No, you merely stood out as two people who can't keep it real. Who insult others that do not agree with your opinion. Having an opinion is fine, but don't resort to attacking someone's presence of "wit" if they don't agree with yours.
And as for this statement "People should be happy with the results when $400 card beats out a $600 card in windows xp.", is why people need to take your posts with minimal weight. You should have kept your statement "real". Like this:
"People should be happy with the results when a $400 card beats out a $600 card in one game, in one mode, under a certain OS, at max framerate."
You would have been correct if you had said that.
Uberbob102000
2[H]4U
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I think the HD2900XT is a good card as well as the 8800 series.
Personally I think that the 8800 series is better though.
I like my AA
Personally I think that the 8800 series is better though.
I like my AA
I guess the Mods would struggle to justify a ban, simply on the basis of someone being deemed stupid and/or annoying. Interesting tactic
I've had this happen to me and I described that he was being stupid when he wanted to volt mod his pupils. LOL Mods came in and said I'm not suppose to use the word but the mod doesn't care who did what long as you don't break the rules.
That is B.S. cause Phide and Sillus was doing the same thing.
I merely stood out because you don't like people standing up for ATI. You however come to a thread with insults first ask questions later.
Exactly but at times 2900xt can perform like bioshock in windows xp. Even in vista if ATI gets it right.
The 2900xt is a good card, and the frames it was giving in the review are correct as I tryed mine on both xp and vista. But I really do think it will catch up.
The architecture derives from teh r580 core which did well, unfortunately they made this core be able to do alot more mathematical operations as well as graphical ones so it will take time for them to properly utelise its power, though that will be kinda to late in the performance crown area.
ATI said the 2900xt was supposed to be going against the 8800 GTX, I think thats a lie and they just said that after realising it wont be a match for the GTX at the time of release.
And this forum is full of people who get rude first, explain after, then get rude again, it seems to be getting worst.
The architecture derives from teh r580 core which did well, unfortunately they made this core be able to do alot more mathematical operations as well as graphical ones so it will take time for them to properly utelise its power, though that will be kinda to late in the performance crown area.
ATI said the 2900xt was supposed to be going against the 8800 GTX, I think thats a lie and they just said that after realising it wont be a match for the GTX at the time of release.
And this forum is full of people who get rude first, explain after, then get rude again, it seems to be getting worst.
SEALTeamSix
2[H]4U
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I've had this happen to me and I described that he was being stupid when he wanted to volt mod his pupils. LOL Mods came in and said I'm not suppose to use the word but the mod doesn't care who did what long as you don't break the rules.
Well, since apparently you can't let it go, here's the thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1217443
Clearly, irony is wasted on you. Here, this might help:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A700958 said:
And for the record, you were warned because you called SentToSchool a moron.
Of course it'll catch up on DX10, like it did on DX9. Bioshock was written to the 8800. For various reasons including availability during development. Remember that Bioshock was "finished" a while back as distribution adds time and there is a settling of software at the end of development too, giving a sizable lag there. Even the lack of AA in Bioshock [right now] is because the developer couldn't get it looking good on the 8800 (at least that's what 2K guy said, and I can think of any reason offhand why he'd bullshit that....sorry, don't have the link to the quote at the moment and I'm not at the computer I browsed that on so I can't sift the History for it). *shrug* Software lags hardware, always has. Or I guess you could look at it as figuring out the best way to get the two together lags hardware and software is the one that's easiest to 'fix' and redistribute.
So as games come out with developers exposed to the 2900XT it'll settle more. Although for certain titles the NVidia is going to have a bit of an edge in the timeline because they've got some of their employees sitting right in the developers offices. (Confirmed for Crysis, NVidia has 2 engineers on loan onsite at Crytech). Likewise I'm guessing for the few titles that ATI are "sponsoring" (they are in tight with Valve AFAIK). But typically it'll find a more natural leveling in a matter of days, sometimes weeks, after release. Publishers really can't issolate themselves that much that it never comes up to snuff a significant portion of hardware and it would be very much counter to the forces that are driving them these days to release any given game on a wide spread of platforms.
Red Falcon
[H]ard DCOTM December 2023
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Yeah, drivers are a big deal, but that doesn't mean that your card is future proof for these games.
[JOKE]My 6600GT pwns your card.[/JOKE]
BTW, I wanted to ask you, is this your card? If it is, then I was going to buy the same thing about two months ago, I just didn't have the money. I'll trade you with mine.
lillimon04
2[H]4U
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idk if you were joking or not, but dont get that card just save up for a 8800gts or the new g92 when they come out, or even the x2950prosYeah, drivers are a big deal, but that doesn't mean that your card is future proof for these games.
[JOKE]My 6600GT pwns your card.[/JOKE]
BTW, I wanted to ask you, is this your card? If it is, then I was going to buy the same thing about two months ago, I just didn't have the money. I'll trade you with mine.
Red Falcon
[H]ard DCOTM December 2023
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I'm not using the card to game. It would stricktly be for hardware encoding (H.264, VC-1, and HD-WMV). I do some occational gaming with DX9 titles, but nothing in DX10. If I wanted to play DX10 titles, I would wait for the Series 9 cards. DX10.1, here I come!
But yeah, I mostly do (or did) work in Premiere and After Effects, so encoding with H.264 was a must for my projects.