Best speaker ever?

Nenu

[H]ardened
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
19,175
op isnt much use for those that cant watch video.
Care to elaborate?
 

MacLeod

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
7,661
Best speaker ever would have Scanspeak drivers. Those are the best sounding speakers to my ears. But as far as computer 2.1 audio goes, I really like my Klipsch Promedia set.
 

rezerekted

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
3,043
op isnt much use for those that cant watch video.
Care to elaborate?
Text from the youtube post:
Z Review - JBL Studio 530 (Best Speaker Ever)

These are better than whatever you are going to ask me to compare against. If anyone buys $650 headphones instead of these you are not doing it right.


NOTE: Where I say they don't work for movies/home theater that is an exaggeration. They just don't work as well as a $1,200 pair of PSA's.

My Reddit Recommendations Guides [Audio and Video Hardware Recomendations and Advice. • /r/Zeos]
Join The Patreon for Dedicated Give-a-ways [ZeosPantera is creating A/V Reviews, Setup Help Tutorials & Product Liquidations! | Patreon]
Yes, I have a twitter [ZeosPantera (@Zeospantera) | Twitter]
 

rezerekted

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
3,043
Best speaker ever would have Scanspeak drivers. Those are the best sounding speakers to my ears. But as far as computer 2.1 audio goes, I really like my Klipsch Promedia set.
I had Klipsch Promedia and they can't hold a candle to my Energy RC1+sub setup. I expect the JBL 530 are much much better too. I'll have to try and demo them sometime.
 

MongGrel

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
1,998
It doesn't look like a bad little Studio monitor type of speaker, but would be miles away from best speaker ever.
 

rezerekted

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
3,043
I also have a pair of Totem Staff speakers and a Totem Storm sub but they are in storage right now so not even in the market for new speakers anyway.
 

westrock2000

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
9,169
Not sure why he calls that area around the woofer a horn. It's not symmetrical at all (the bottom in particular) and not even remotely big enough to do anything at woofer frequencies. That depth would barely even classify as a waveguide for a tweeter.
 

B00nie

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,189
Not sure why he calls that area around the woofer a horn. It's not symmetrical at all (the bottom in particular) and not even remotely big enough to do anything at woofer frequencies. That depth would barely even classify as a waveguide for a tweeter.
I think he was referring to the small waveguide around the woofer itself. Or most likely he doesn't understand how horns work.
 

Commander Shepard

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
4,145
Canceled my pre-order after receiving an email this morning that stated shipping delayed until mid-June.
 

westrock2000

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
9,169
Here's an image of the crossover. It's fairly complex for this price range, though I would guess that some of that is used for taming certain issues and not just specifically for "crossover" duty (ie, it's not a 3rd or 4th order crossover). Possibly a zobel or baffle step correction circuit in there, or both.



But even so, at this price range you don't always get a company willing to put in the effort/resources to tame issues related to the design (and with speakers there are many). So that might be why these review so well for the price, because they are actually built RIGHT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this

Commander Shepard

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
4,145
Our friend is back and he's crowned a new best speaker ever.


I've heard them and they're nothing short of amazing... if you feel like dropping $1000 on a pair.
 

Sycraft

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
4,595
I kinda want to hear SVS Ultra speakers, given that I love my SVS MTS-01s. But I kinda don't in that I don't want to then feel like I need to have them and spend a ton more money :)
 

UnknownSouljer

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 24, 2001
Messages
6,271
The question is: are the SVS Ultra's worth the double price over the JVCs? I have no doubt the SVS's sound 'better'. But there is also a price to performance ratio. Near the end he states that the SVS are exactly like the JVC's, but they can get louder. If you don't care about loudness, wouldn't it just be a better investment to keep the $400 in your pocket?
 

Nenu

[H]ardened
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
19,175
Very hard question to answer.
It depends on the equipment you partner it with, how it is set up, your own sensitivity (probably the most major element) and the quality of the music played.
 

Commander Shepard

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
4,145
I kinda want to hear SVS Ultra speakers, given that I love my SVS MTS-01s. But I kinda don't in that I don't want to then feel like I need to have them and spend a ton more money :)
I sold my MTS-01, two years ago before moving. Sold a lot of stuff rather than haul it across the country. I'm actually foolish enough to be strongly considering a pair of Ultras. Just waiting to see some reviews of the new Elac Uni-fi B5 before making a decision.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
339
Damn, I'm not even into speakers that much (I don't even own a standalone speaker right now) and this dudes enthusiasm for those SVS Ultras makes me want to buy a pair. Subscribed to him, had to.
 

MongGrel

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
1,998
I'd personally be looking into Elac's myself these days if I were buying, for price vs performance.

I've always liked Andrew Jones designed speakers, have one of his Pioneer centers in the 7.2

Debut – Elac
 
Last edited:

Stereodude

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 20, 2000
Messages
3,285
So in other words he's never heard a really good set of speakers properly setup so as he works his way up the price performance curve of speakers that suit his tastes each one is going to be the "best speaker ever"? Should you really trust someone reviewing speakers with no room treatments? Just listening to his bloviating reviews makes it clear he's not really familiar with good audio and has no idea about what makes a good speaker or not. I wonder what would happen if he heard really good high end speakers set up properly...

BTW, What's up with the rack full of glasses and sunglasses that we can see in the JBL video?
 

Oniigumo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
287
So in other words he's never heard a really good set of speakers properly setup so as he works his way up the price performance curve of speakers that suit his tastes each one is going to be the "best speaker ever"? Should you really trust someone reviewing speakers with no room treatments? Just listening to his bloviating reviews makes it clear he's not really familiar with good audio and has no idea about what makes a good speaker or not. I wonder what would happen if he heard really good high end speakers set up properly...

BTW, What's up with the rack full of glasses and sunglasses that we can see in the JBL video?
Pretty much.. I actually stumbled along his videos when I was researching monitors/speakers for my desk, thought I found a gold mine of reviews. Unfortunately he does no real measurements other than volume levels, everything else is completely subjective. Now that's not really inherently BAD, but you find very quickly watching his videos that whatever item his video covers, is now the next best thing, like he's either convincing himself of his purchase or trying to sell you something (not that that's the case, it's just the vibe I get).

So, honestly I don't really know how to say the next part of what I'm going to say, but here goes.. Nobody really knows what "sounds good" to anyone else, it's all very personal. Do you want a flat response, to hear what the producers intended without coloring the audio, or do you prefer to have that bass thumping? I'd wager most "average" people like the sound of boosted frequencies, take a look at Bose and Beats. I thoroughly enjoy the Bose setup in my living room, and they're well known for having boosted bass. I recommend looking at NoAudiophile and AverageJoeAudiophile if you're looking for measurements, and prefer a flat response, or Zeos for a less critical, more average person's take on things. When shopping I knew that I hadn't really heard a "real" pair of monitors, so I didn't know if I'd actually enjoy a flat response. I used a combination of their reviews to decide my purchase because of that fact. Pretty much everyone says that the JBL LSR305's are great for music, and that was what I ended up picking. Couldn't be more happy with my purchase. All said and done, I prefer the flat response over colored.
 

Sycraft

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
4,595
So in other words he's never heard a really good set of speakers properly setup so as he works his way up the price performance curve of speakers that suit his tastes each one is going to be the "best speaker ever"? Should you really trust someone reviewing speakers with no room treatments? Just listening to his bloviating reviews makes it clear he's not really familiar with good audio and has no idea about what makes a good speaker or not. I wonder what would happen if he heard really good high end speakers set up properly...
QFT. Not sure why people are so in to this guy. He sounds like a guy who doesn't have a whole lot of experience to go on and just fanboys over whatever the shiniest toy is he comes across. I'm not hating on the products, I'm sure the JBL speakers are good (JBL is always my go-to in a commercial setting if I don't have something else in mind since they make everything and they are all at least decent) and I am a huge SVS fanboy myself but man. This guy needs some perspective. He needs to go to a mastering studio and hear some REAL high end gear in a good room, so he gets an idea of just how good sound can be, and gets some perspective.

Also there's the simple issue of comparing this of vastly disparate price ranges. Sure, the Ultras smack the JBLs. They ought to at twice the price. You need to compare things in a link-price category when determining the best. Otherwise, the award of "best" would invariably go to something like the B&W Nautilus or the ATC SCM300ASL Pros or the like that run 5-6 figures because of course they can get a better sound when they have a bigger budget.

I don't think untreated room listening is totally invalid, since many people will use speakers in an untreated room and different designs are better or worse in those situations (things like big waveguides can help) but you are right that if there isn't some kind of control in a good room then you really don't have a good comparison point.

Plus the head-cam thing is really annoying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this

Commander Shepard

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
4,145
I never heard of Z before that JBL review was posted here. After watching it and a few of his other reviews, I think he's fairly entertaining. He seems to have a better than average grasp of audio knowledge; certainly better than I ever will, or care to. I think it's absurd to claim one can't legitimately review speakers unless one does so from an acoustically treated room. How many people listen to their music, movies, etc. in acoustically treated rooms?
 

Sycraft

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
4,595
The problem with not having a good room as a control is that all untreated rooms have DIFFERENT problems. If they were consistent in how they screwed up sound, then sure. There would actually be a market in speakers to counter the issues. However different rooms cause different issues, particularly in the bass range you can calculate it, if you like. Eigenmode calculators will let you calculate the various bass issues in a room. So it can be important to have a good room as a control, to make sure if you hear an issue in a speaker that it is actually with the speaker, and not because your room is causing a problem. It is really, really shocking what a difference acoustic treatment (and having a well designed room) can make.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this

Stereodude

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 20, 2000
Messages
3,285
I think it's absurd to claim one can't legitimately review speakers unless one does so from an acoustically treated room.
Well, as Sycraft points out untreated rooms can have a variety of problems. No one reading his reviews can tell what problems his room has. He might find a pair of speakers that have minimal negative interaction in his room, but don't perform all that well in general. Yet, he'd conclude they're awesome and better than all the others. If he took measurement from his MLP or also listened to the speakers outside there'd be more value there.

Would you trust a video card review where the reviewer subjectively talked about their experience using it, but didn't tell you the graphics settings they used or their monitor resolution and didn't provide any framerates?

How many people listen to their music, movies, etc. in acoustically treated rooms?
I'd wager more people have treated rooms than there are people doing video reviews online and soliciting review samples.

Would you attempt to start a review channel reviewing sporty / performance cars for performance without a having a Racelogic VBOX or similar data logging device that you could use to record objective data with? I sure wouldn't.
 

Oniigumo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
287
Floyd Toole & Sean Olive absolutely disagree. Their research in this area is pretty convincing.
And they're free to do so, I have no opinion of them or their work as I have no idea who they are. I'm not really sure what research of theirs has to do with my opinion of people enjoying flat vs boosted response? If you don't mind pointing it out to me, from a quick googling I came across a blog, and a post about blind testing, but I'm not sure what that has to do with what you quoted. My point isn't about blind tests or anything like that, it's specifically about colored audio. I know people that mess with EQ settings to make the bass thump, I'm not a fan, but to each his own. That's what I'm talking about, what you prefer when it comes to what YOU listen to. I can take my monitors and adjust EQ without anyone else knowing, they won't know which setting is or isn't colored, but they will likely prefer one over the other either way. Which one they will prefer is their opinion, and it might not align with mine, but I'm no more correct than they are. That said, from what I understand, it's better to lop off misbehaving frequencies rather than boost when DSP correcting your monitors, so regardless I feel it's better to start out with something flat and adjust from there. It's exactly like TVs, plenty of people see contrast jacked up on a set and think it looks great, that it looks more "clear" than the one next to it. It doesn't make the color more accurate by any means, and can have the opposite effect, but that doesn't change the fact that they personally enjoy the altered picture more than the unaltered picture.

It goes even deeper than that in the audiophile world (which I honestly try to avoid as much as possible), because there tend to be 2 major camps. Those who strive for "mathematically" flat audio (which tends to be digital, solid state), and those who prefer "natural" or "warm" sounding audio (which tends to be analogue, tube based). I say take opinions from both camps, listen on your own, decide what YOU like, and ignore the nay sayers. That's what I mean when I say it's a personal decision when it comes to "best". What does it matter who likes what? If you're referring to brands, I agree. There are plenty of people that say "Oh, AKG is best. My H/K is the most amazing setup, you have no idea. You haven't heard what real music is until you've heard it through my JBLs." I couldn't care less about brands, it's all about how they make the air move to me :) Just like audio, feel free to disagree with me, it's your opinion after all.
 
Last edited:

N4CR

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
4,466
Lol.

Bowers and Wilkins Nautilus is the Mclaren F1 of speakers. Produced over 20 years now from memory, still a reference speaker, my dream pair will be black with faint blue pearl. No paint to scratch - they're made from Marlar Resin. 60kusd a pair new.
They are a near-perfect golden ratio design. One of the most 'natural' engineering designs I have ever laid my eyes upon. They are a perfect symbiosis of engineering, form and function. This shows in the results they prove. I doubt with conventional tech that anything will majority surpass them in any hugely noticeable way. The only way forward is really quantum sound systems, either directly transmitted to the brain (which removes the colouration of environment/room) or using a weightless 'virtual' speaker induced in mid air.

The weight/rigidity of the materials used, plus room environment treatment, is really the limitation we are at now. Plasma tweeters are interesting and along the line of what I mentioned with quantum systems, just an infant stage in comparion.



Bow to your Nautilus overlord!

Then there is the B&W 800D revision 2 which supposedly edges the nautilus out, which perhaps needs a diamond tweeter upgrade.
Then the designer of the nautilus went and made his own speaker which is reputed to be superior (by a fraction at this level..)
There are a few other even more esoteric and exclusive speakers that can be added to this list - martin logans perhaps, some of the electrostatics.. etc.

Then there's the amps and the rest of the shit.

TLDR: some 600 dollar pair of computer speakers != best evar
 
Last edited:

Stereodude

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 20, 2000
Messages
3,285
And they're free to do so, I have no opinion of them or their work as I have no idea who they are. I'm not really sure what research of theirs has to do with my opinion of people enjoying flat vs boosted response?
Welcome to [H]ardform... Where everyone with a keyboard and an Internet connection is an expert. :rolleyes:

By what exact justification can you discount research you haven't read, from people you aren't familiar with?

I don't know who this Einstein guy is, or what he thinks about general relativity, but let me tell you why he's wrong about general relativity... :censored:
 

Stereodude

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 20, 2000
Messages
3,285
Bowers and Wilkins Nautilus is the Mclaren F1 of speakers. Produced over 20 years now from memory, still a reference speaker...

Bow to your Nautilus overlord!

Then there is the B&W 800D revision 2 which supposedly edges the nautilus out, which perhaps needs a diamond tweeter upgrade.
Then the designer of the nautilus went and made his own speaker which is reputed to be superior (by a fraction at this level..)
Have you actually heard them? I haven't so I won't make any pronouncements about them.

The best speakers I've ever heard are the TAD Reference One. Jawdropping and amazing... They've ruined audio reproduction for me now that I know what's possible. I don't have crazy stacks of cash to plunk down for a pair though. They were $60k when I heard them years many years ago. I think they're about $80k now.
 

MongGrel

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
1,998
I started looking around for grins and giggles, and these were pretty amazing looking :)


Speaker Pr0n

 
Last edited:

westrock2000

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
9,169
Would you attempt to start a review channel reviewing sporty / performance cars for performance without a having a Racelogic VBOX or similar data logging device that you could use to record objective data with? I sure wouldn't.
You should check out Chris Harris on Youtube, his videos are numerous and review/commentary is golden. It is purely subjective reviews. His style is that of a Top Gear in a one man show.
 
Top