Best LCD manufacturers/technologies for Blu-Ray & gaming?

N

Nerva

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
92
Without getting into my size & price considerations, I'm trying to figure out what manufacturer and/or panel technology I should gravitate to.

My primary applications will be:

1) Blu-ray (1080p, 24p movies, HDTV, etc) -- outstanding colors, contrast, no ghosting, etc. Since this is for a desktop, viewing angle is NOT a consideration in this case (whereas for a living room it would be).

2) Moderate gaming (Fallout 3 or Warhammer Online) -- a responsive display with low input lag and response time, but I'm not trying to get headshots in CounterStrike.

So I need a balance between excellent display quality and good display speed. For reference, my current display is an old IBM P260 21" CRT (Sony Trinitron tube), which has served me well since 2001, and I plan to shift it to a secondary monitor role.

OK, as long as I'm posting this, I'm thinking I'd like something in the 26" to 28" size range, 1920x1200 resolution, up to $1000, but I'll go for a $500 monitor if it's a great bang/buck.
 
What type of panel you are looking for? IPS/VA/MVA/TN??
 
Outside of other CRTs, the display you indicate does not exist...

For a much bigger display and more money, you could look at LED backed LCD TV by Samsung and soon others or Pioneer Kuro (and maybe the latest Panasonic) plasma...

Why the focus on Blu-Ray for your desktop? Is this for production?
 
No, nothing professional. I'm just thinking ahead. Just about every LCD I've seen can show a nice looking Vista desktop... but I don't want to be in the position of being able to stream HD content from my home server or my HDTV antenna, only to catch myself thinking "jeez, this LCD makes video look pretty crappy". Nor do I want to be playing Fallout 3, go to whip my head to the right to see what's shooting at me, and think "jeez, I should have thought about input lag before I bought this POS".

I think you pretty much nailed it... CRT's are a hard act to follow in those areas... so I'm trying NOT to take a noticeable step down from my current CRT.

I would think it's obvious that I'm looking for a type of panel... that meets my requirements... I really don't care what technology it is. Yes, I've done some research, and the more I read, the less I can be sure of.

For example, I thought TN was bad... then I see that the Samsung P260 LCD apparently has TN with 8-bits per channel instead of the typical 6-bits. So does it still suck or not? TN is fast with response time, which makes for good video playback, but what about input lag for gaming -- past Samsungs are notorious for bad input lag. The TN viewing angle isn't an issue so long as it looks great head-on.

Am I right in guessing that 100% gamut = Sony CRT quality? I get the impression that less gamut will leave me unimpressed, while more gamut will have me pulling out my hair trying to figure out how to color-correct my desktop wallpaper (or other instances where the annoyance outweighs the benefits).
 
Second on the Pioneer Kuro or the Samsung A950 series (or the Sony XBR8, which caries a huge premium for similar quality to the A950). Now these are much larger (I think you can get a 46" A950 but that's about the smallest) and a huge premium over what you are looking to spent (like $4000 at the cheapest), but these sets are really the only ones out there that have near CRT blacks, true 24p support and amazing colors - not too sure about the input lag. You can move down in the Samsung and Sony LCD lines (or Sharp, Toshiba and Panasonic) and find displays that you might really like (the Samsung A550 or A650 is within your price range and is one of the best deals of the current LCD models - Toshiba, Sharp and Panasonic all also have 32" 1080p models that would be in line with what you are looking for. The only problem is that as far as I know no one currently makes a 32" (or even 37") that actually has a 120Hz panel (a lot will take a 24p signal and do the motion smoothing which can help, but they are still 60Hz panels). If you want a 120Hz panel (for 5:5 pull down) you need to move to 40"+.
 
Nerva said:
CRT's are a hard act to follow in those areas... so I'm trying NOT to take a noticeable step down from my current CRT.
Click to expand...

What step down do you mean?:)
Does you current CRT support 1080p at 24Hz and you are afraid of stepping down from ... that?
 
Nerva said:
For example, I thought TN was bad... then I see that the Samsung P260 LCD apparently has TN with 8-bits per channel instead of the typical 6-bits. So does it still suck or not? TN is fast with response time, which makes for good video playback, but what about input lag for gaming -- past Samsungs are notorious for bad input lag. The TN viewing angle isn't an issue so long as it looks great head-on.
Click to expand...

I believe you mean the Samsung T260 LCD monitor. The Samsung P260 is a cellphone.

Apparently, the T260 uses a 6-bit TN panel with Hi-FRC dithering. This method of dithering allows this monitor to display a range of 16.7m colors; not true 8-bit.

Hi-FRC = High Frame Rate Control - A 6-bit TN panel can only produce 262k actual colors. However this type of technology can reproduce up to 16.7m colors by causing the pixels to quickly flash between two different colors to create a color a TN panel cannot normally produce.

For example, suppose a TN panel cannot produce the colors purple. To get around this short coming, the pixels quickly flashes between blue and red which fools the brain into thinking that it is seeing solid purple.
 
The Samsung A950 looks awesome. I'm seriously looking to pick up the 46". The 55" is probably too big for my small apartment and I think carrying that up 3 flights of stairs (no elevator) would prove to be too much of a hassle. Plus it about $1,000 more than the $3,200 46" version.
 
The new plasma Pioneer Elite Kuro 9G are the one to beat on the market right now.

I'm a reviewer for an AV magazine since 10 years, and I've seen all the best CRTs well calibrated (Sony G90, stack of G90, Barco Cine 9...), and almost every LCDs made in the last 5 years, and after seeing some prototypes, I can tell you that the next gen (10G) Pio Elite Kuro will be unbelievable.

I bought a Kuro Pro-111FD 3 months ago after reviewing it, since I was so impressed. I still own a ''gigantic'' Sony 40XBR800 (40'' CRT!) to compare them side-by-side, and I really prefer the plasma for Blu-rays. For gaming, I confess that I still often use the ''old'' CRT 40''. :)
 
I'm sorry, I should clarify: this is for a DESKTOP replacement for a 21" monitor. After working with LCD's and their dot pitches, knowing I want 1080p capability, viewing distance, etc, etc, etc, I want a new display in the ~27" range (26"-28"), not a 30+" display.

I also understand that LCD's have advantages... I'm just looking for a LCD that's balanced for video vs. gaming and isn't a big step down from a CRT in either area.
 
I was THIS CLOSE to buying an A+ used FW900 from "Unkle Vito", but finally decided against it because I don't want to run 1920x1200 on a screen with only 22" viewable area.

Is there at least a ~27" LCD that doesn't suffer from significant input lag?

I get the impression that S-IPS is the best balance of color quality and gaming speed -- is there a good S-IPS display on the market that's in the ~27" size range?

The Samsung 305T+ apparently has horrible lag.
The Dell 2709W also has bad lag.

Is there anything out there that's worth a damn?

I really don't want to sit THAT close to a FW900 screen -- given that it's a CRT.
 
UPDATE: I ended up picking up a 28" HANNS-G from Costco because they have a 30-day no hassle return policy -- I hoped that I'd get used to it and forget about the imperfections of LCD technology. After using it a couple weeks, the verdict:

1) It's big. That's about the only good thing I can say about it. Even then, it was almost too big -- I found myself fighting the urge to turn my head when using it.

2) The contrast and color are horrible and made my ancient 21" CRT seem glorious by comparison. The colors are strong, but not accurate.

3) It's bright, but made me think of aluminum foil with millions of little holes in it -- a sort of shimmer rather than a glowing screen like a CRT. LCD's are supposed to have less eyestrain vs. CRT's, but not in this case. Reading for any length of time became unpleasant.


I decided to risk buying the "slightly used" FW900 from "Unkle Vito", and returned the LCD. About a week later it arrived in a huge, heavy, 30"x30"x30" box and took at least half an hour to unpack and set up.

Wow.

WOW.

WOW!!!!!

All I can say is high-def never looked so good. I keep the monitor close so that the screen doesn't seem too small -- doesn't bother my eyes one bit. Turn the room lights out and watch high-def movies... the contrast and color are AMAZING -- I mean PERFECT! I compared my old 21" next to it... I was thinking I'd keep both on my desktop, just to have the option of dual monitors... but the difference was so extreme, I couldn't tolerate having the old monitor on under any circumstances -- the 21" was burned-in so bad it distracted from watching the FW900. So it's sitting on the floor in a corner... I may use it for my server or something "utilitarian" like that.

I highly recommend the FW900 if you can get your hands on a low-mileage one. Unkle Vito was expensive (~$1000 after shipping) but when I compare the beauty and zero-lag of this FW900 to what I could get for the same price with LCD technology, I'm very happy with my decision.
 
I used to have a 21” CRT about 4 years back, but that thing was huge (physical dimensions, not the actual screen size) and heavy. Now I use a Samsung T260, which I think is pretty good for a TN panel; before that I used an iiyama 22” LCD, which was ok, but color dithering and backlight bleeding was not as good as the Samsung. I do miss the good old CRTs, but I can’t imagine having a 26” CRT on my table right now :eek: ..

You paid $1000 for that 22.5" ?? Well, you could've bought a 24" S-IPS LCD monitor for less , which has much better viewing angles and color reproduction compared to your first HANNS-G, maybe not as good as the CRT, but it would be pretty close. In addition it is slim & light monitor with warranty.. BTW did you get any warranty on that ?
 
The guy gave me a limited 30 day warranty (I was concerned about damage in transit causing it to die after a few weeks of use). Like I said, it's a risk.

I did a bunch of research on the various LCD techs and the manufacturers. In the end they all seemed to have their issues and I was frustrated that there was no single panel that excelled for both HDTV and gaming. TN's are garbage, PVA's have input lag, and many of the S-IPS's, while having excellent picture, suffer from quality control problems and/or input lag. I saw so many pictures of backlight bleed, color banding, etc.

My old IBM P260 21" monitor gave me many years of good service (DVD's looked sooooo good!), and at its heart is a Sony Trinitron tube. Back when I bought it, if you were willing to spend the money, a Trinitron was the undisputed king of monitor technology. The FW900 was the last and BEST Trinitron ever made. I'm attracted to such technological greatness, and I decided to go with it, rather than spending $1000 on LCD technology that's still a work in progress.

The FW900 isn't much larger than my P260 -- no deeper and the bezel is thinner. Sure, it weighs about 100lbs... but it doesn't need to move. Lightness is a nice-to-have -- what I really care about is what a HDTV rip of The Empire Strikes Back looks like on it -- and it looks AMAZING.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top