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best in class

R

Regelos

n00b
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
59
I was just wondering what you thought was the best possible powersupply I want to goto a x2 SLI setup eventually and I will have 2 of the high capicity 10k RPM SATA WD drives and the orginal Athlon 64 >socket 754 if I remember< money isnt an object.
 
You don't need best-in-class for that system ;) And you'll need socket 939 to get SLI; I don't even think there's a pci-express board on 754. A PC Power and Cooling 510 variant will be plenty.

 
k I understand all that I will be changing my system completly in the future but I want to buy the best possible powersupply I can today... just looking for suggestions for a powersupply...
 
Well, how much change are we talking? You're pretty much going to need a dual-cpu box and/or a dozen disks before the 510 doesn't cut it anymore. SLI by itself is no problem. Check out the specs on the TC 510 SLI. 34A on 12V at 50C. The only thing you could possibly need is 8-pin power rather than 4; get the 510ASL for maximum future compatibility.

 
unhappy_mage said:
You don't need best-in-class for that system ;) And you'll need socket 939 to get SLI; I don't even think there's a pci-express board on 754. A PC Power and Cooling 510 variant will be plenty.

Click to expand...

Epox has an SLI 754 board out...
 
in the next month I will be getting the X2 processor and the best 2 video cards out at the time... plus 2 gb worth of memory 2-4 WD 10k RPM 150gb drives with this powersupply.. my goal is to just buy the best powersupply on the market now even if its way to much then I need...
 
madmat said:
Epox has an SLI 754 board out...
Click to expand...
Learn something new every day.

OP, I wasn't dissing the PCP&C; quite the opposite. It's quite possibly the best power supply for a non-server application. That's you - you've only got one processor, so that's like max a hundred watts; less than 4 hard drives => less than 50 watts; two video cards for 150 watts, and say a hundred watts of overhead for other junk. That adds up to 400 if I've done my math right (always a dubious proposition). A lot of that is on the 12V line; for the sake of argument, let's say all of it. 34A@12V = 408 watts. You're still covered. And that's assuming it only lives up to its rating. PCP&C is very conservative with the ratings - they rate at 50 degrees C, for example, compared to the competition which rates at 25C for the most part. I'm not trying to palm you off with cheap crap. This will handle anything you're likely to throw at it. If you think you might be doing something "unlikely" in the future, though, let us know what's in the books.

 
topdragon147 said:
PCP&C 1000 watt
Click to expand...
Why would you pay $500 for a system that will never exceed the needs of a $250 unit, when you end up with a monster that doesn't fit in lots of cases (even some server cases)? That's just ridiculous.

 
PC P&C 1kw is wayy overkill.

Get the 510W PC Power and Cooling PSU. It'll be much better, and save you some cash.

Besides, the 1KW Model is a bit longer.
 
the PC Power & Cooling 510 ran:
2x Opteron 254 (2.8ghz)
4x 1gb RAM
1 7800GTX
1 SB X-Fi Fatal1ty
1 RAID card
8x hdds (7x SATA 7200, 1x SATA 10k) (Up to 10 at one time)
2x DVDRWs.

Your system is WAAAAY less power demanding than that.

Spend that $250 you're saving on more RAM, a better CPU, more hdds, whatever. Don't waste it on a system that will likely never need a 1KW.

To need a 1KW, you better plan on filling this up. I'm talking about 2 CPUs, 8 DIMMs, 20 hdds, SLI, etc.

a single processor system with a couple hdds and SLI in it is not as power-demanding as you'd like to think. Hell, you can fit that into a Shuttle SN26P and get away with a 350W. The 510ASL would be my suggestion, with an 8 to 4 pin adapter for the ATX12V.
 
topdragon147 said:
he said he wanted the best even if it was overkill..
Click to expand...


True...and he's been given that answer.

That doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't give the best advice we can, which in this case would be to not waste money on a PSU that's twice as powerful when he's unlikely to need that extra power.

If the two fastest Opterons, 4 sticks of RAM, a 7800GTX, and 8 hdds can run on a 510W...a single processor with 2 videocards, 2 hdds, and a few sticks of RAM is a piece of cake.

But, unless he's planning on expanding well beyond what most people (even [H]'ers) consider high-end (that being a single processor (regardless of dual core), a couple gigs of RAM, 2 videocards or less, and 4 hdds or less)...he's better off investing the difference into something that will give the system a more noticable boost. 500W of power that will never be used by his system is not as appealing (to me, at least) as an extra 750GB worth of hdd space, or an extra 2GB of RAM.
 
topdragon147 said:
he said he wanted the best even if it was overkill..
Click to expand...
Yep, the 510 is overkill. An analogy: He's asked about moving an apartment worth of stuff, I suggested renting a semi, you suggested a 747. Sure, a 747 is overkill. But he doesn't need that much and never will.

 
The 510 is an awesome PSU, I know, I have one and it is for sale. It ran an FX-55, 4HDD's, my H2O cooling gear, 2 DVD, 2 7800GTX's and few other bells and whistles.
 
if you cant stand the noise of PC Power and Cooling PSU's, the next best silent solution would be a Seasonic S12 600w
 
Bbq said:
There is no such thing as overkill. PCP&C 1KW.
Click to expand...
There is such a thing as lower efficiency at lower load. What would you guys recommend if there was no 1kw power supply? Two power supplies? Jeez...

OP, I can't stop you from buying too much power supply. You might consider buying a large scsi raid array, three more processors, and two more video cards, so that the load on the power supply will be sufficient to get it to its efficient zone.

 
I would go with the PCPOWER&COOLING 850SSI it has everything you'll need
like 24-pin, 8-pin, 4-pin, dual 6-pin video and it is very quite than the 510.
The only problem is the length it is 9.5 inches
 
clubsport said:
I would go with the PCPOWER&COOLING 850SSI it has everything you'll need
like 24-pin, 8-pin, 4-pin, dual 6-pin video and it is very quite than the 510.
The only problem is the length it is 9.5 inches
Click to expand...


the 1KW is just $50 more than the 850...so, really, no one should be buying the 850 any more.

And there's still a $200 difference between the 850 and the 510. The argument is that he's not going to exceed the 510 with his system. He's got a LONG way to go (look at the system I mentioned that was powered by a 510) before he exceeds its capabilities.
 
unhappy_mage said:
There is such a thing as lower efficiency at lower load. What would you guys recommend if there was no 1kw power supply? Two power supplies? Jeez...

OP, I can't stop you from buying too much power supply. You might consider buying a large scsi raid array, three more processors, and two more video cards, so that the load on the power supply will be sufficient to get it to its efficient zone.

Click to expand...


The PC Power and cooling 1kw is probably one of the most efficient supplies on the market. Not only that, like all other powersupplies it's a switching power supply so it only draws the power it needs. If he did go with it, he would have less power draw than a decent 510 watt power supply.

Some math for you:

The 510 is 70 percent efficient
the 1kw is 83 percent efficient

say 300 watt load.

510 draws 428 watts
1kw draws 361 watts

That really isn't a significant difference, however, the 1kw will run cooler and last much long at a reduced load and, maybe the OP is planning on adding a 12 drive array later.

I agree PCP&C they are the best, they under rate and are phenomenal for reliability.
 
defakto said:
Not only that, like all other powersupplies it's a switching power supply so it only draws the power it needs.
Click to expand...
Huh! I could swear I've seen a review of a power supply showing markedly lower efficiency at lower power draw rates. I would link something, but none of the reviews I can find test large enough units with small enough draws to show the point. Anyone?

 
unhappy_mage said:
Huh! I could swear I've seen a review of a power supply showing markedly lower efficiency at lower power draw rates. I would link something, but none of the reviews I can find test large enough units with small enough draws to show the point. Anyone?

Click to expand...


I'd like to know If I'm wrong on this too. However, the quote you used was a touch of context. Here is what I meant when I said," Not only that, like all other powersupplies it's a switching power supply so it only draws the power it needs."

Some people believe in the misconception that a 500 watt power supply draws 500 watts all the time. This is not true. A switching power supply/switched mode power supply. Only draws the current it needs to maintain it's output on the dc side. If you have a 550 watt power supply and a draw of 200 watts the power supply is only going to draw enough power from the wall to maintain that 200 watts. Rough figure with a 70 percent efficient power supply would be 285 watts. Which is still significantly less than 550 watts.
 
I'm certainly in agreement with the idea that less draw on PSU = less draw from the wall. All I'm saying is it's less efficient when you use very little juice.

From silentpcreview: this page, this one, and this one seem to agree with me about this efficiency difference. I'm not sure about that, though, so I'll gladly take corrections. I picked the highest-wattage PSUs on the theory that they'd behave similarly to the uber-high-wattage PCP&C. It's not a huge difference, but it'll still add up over time, especially with higher energy costs these days. If you upgrade your system in the future, you can always sell the 510. I don't see any reason to pay more now and over time for capacity you'll never use.

 
From reading Jonnys reviews it seems the inverse is true, that the lower the load on the PSU the higher the efficiency is and it goes down as the load increases.
 
Link, please? I'd expect, if nothing else, that the vampiric power (spinning the fans, that kind of thing) would make the efficiency look worse at lower levels.

 
What the SPCR reviews show is that there is a curve of efficency in most cases. Too low a load....lower efficency....higher load less efficency with a sweet spot in the middle.
 
From his Strider review you'll notice that at a real low load of 261W the eff is 69% but it goes up at 338W to 77% then starts going back down as the load increases.

Most of the quality PSUs he's reviewed tend to show lower eff at zero load and at 2XX watts where he starts they're considerably higher. The silverstone seems to be a bit off. From 2XX watts the other slope off at varying rates.
 
madmat said:
From his Strider review you'll notice that at a real low load of 261W the eff is 69% but it goes up at 338W to 77% then starts going back down as the load increases.

Most of the quality PSUs he's reviewed tend to show lower eff at zero load and at 2XX watts where he starts they're considerably higher. The silverstone seems to be a bit off. From 2XX watts the other slope off at varying rates.
Click to expand...

Like I said one post up ;)

Also as shown here and here most PC's live in the suboptimal range.
 
Spectre said:
Like I said one post up ;)

Also as shown here and here most PC's live in the suboptimal range.
Click to expand...

I saw your post but I just wanted to show Mage since he had asked for a link. Mom always told me it's not polite to ignore someone.

I do agree though that it's a balancing act. You want to choose a PSU that will be pushed hard enough to be in as optimal a range as possible when the PC is doing nominal tasks as far as efficiency goes but still have plenty of power in reserve so that it won't crap out when you do push it balls to the wall.
 
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