Best colorimeter for S2433W monitor.

The UDACT is aimed at softproofing for the graphic industry. The ugra/ fogra media wedge values used in the UDACT represent important patches for offset printing (here's a comparison of the S2433 color space against ISO Coated v2; only minor undercoverages).

Ok, thanks.

Yes these are ususally remanufactured screens (if not a DOA case). Counter has been reset. I wouldn't worry about the difference in the moment.

Best regards

Denis

The things that makes me a little bit anhry is that they have teased me, I'm really annoyed that Eizos representative may have taken for a ride me.
I have spoken clearly with her, she repeated me that this monitor was used on an exhibition for only 20 hours and that it was new. she seemed me a good person.

Is there a way to see if this monitor has more than the hours displayed on my OSD and if the counter has been resetted?
 
Is there a way to see if this monitor has more than the hours displayed on my OSD and if the counter has been resetted?
Not to my knowledge. Anyway: As continuous recalibration is recommended you will automatically monitor the brightness development - although I see no real problems in your case.

Best regards

Denis
 
Not to my knowledge. Anyway: As continuous recalibration is recommended you will automatically monitor the brightness development - although I see no real problems in your case.

Best regards

Denis

you are right, as always.

Another curiosity.
In this reviews is written that they calibrated the monitor to 140cd/m2 before executing the udact test but the PDF says that the monitor is at 119.9cd/m2, is this only a missprint?
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2010/review-eizo-s2433wh-bk-part10.html

I noticed it when my monitor doesn't passed the UGRA test at 118cd/m2, raising the brightness to 140 made the result you seen in the pdf I posted previously.
I don't know if my monitor will pass the test at 120/125cd/m2, just to play with the new toy, I will try it in the next days.
 
Is there a software that I can download to compare my monitor dE with a specific gamut like the one you used in prad?
Do you know something like that?
 
I have opened an image with complex grey hades, and than started iColor display.

I have succesfully adjusted the white point using the rgb and brightness and the images in the background displayed ok.
Once I started the calibration after a few minutes the images lost a lot of grey tones, it lost it before that the calibration is finished.
Once calibration is finished and the icc profile has been saved, grey tonal are lost.

To see them again I need to reset the monitor with default settings.
How this is possible? Is this something related to contrast? Why there isn't something on iColor to calibrate the contrast?
 
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A good tool but not what he wanted to achieve.

How this is possible? Is this something related to contrast?
No. As I said: Corrections with the help of the 8bit videocard LUT are lossy. If you want to avoid any loss of tonal values in unmanaged applications: Don't calibrate the screen but only choose the "Profiling" option. The Eizo is quite neutral but I wouldn't generally recommend this approach.


Why there isn't something on iColor to calibrate the contrast?
You can lower the contrast through raising the desired blacklevel or lowering whitelevel. There's no way of raising the contrast over the native limit of the screen. But all this isn't connected to your observation.

Best regards

Denis
 
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A good tool but not what he wanted to achieve.

Do you mean that it isn't good enough to measure the sRGB gamut?

No. As I said: Corrections with the help of the 8bit videocard LUT are lossy. If you want to avoid any loss of tonal values in unmanaged applications: Don't calibrate the screen but only choose the "Profiling" option. The Eizo is quite neutral but I wouldn't generally recommend this approach.

The odd thing is that I've got the problem also in unmanaged applications with no ICC color profile loaded.
The problem appears as soon as I change the RGB from OSD also without icc.
When I change the RGB channel from the OSD monitors switch to manual adjustment of the white color and creates this problem.
If I reset the monitor with default settings monitor use the default 6500K temperature and I don't lose any grey tones.

You can lower the contrast through raising the desired blacklevel or lowering whitelevel. There's no way of raising the contrast over the native limit of the screen. But all this isn't connected to your observation.

Best regards

Denis

In my OSD there is an option to adjust the contrast ratio, the default value is 50 but the range goes from 0 to 100.
I noticed that if I increase the contrast in the OSD to 53 the lost grey tones reappears but the colors after this adjustment aren't natural anymore.
I don't have this problem on the other monitor #2.

I will try to increase the color from the OSD in order to try to mantain the grey tones and than re-adjust the RGB to makes the colors more natural.
What do you think about this?

Thanks!
 
great where is the source?
As already mentioned: A profile validation has quite limited expressiveness and a narrow application area. Regarding that the UDACT you can run gives a far better impression as it incorporates an extensive profile validation, grey axis analysis (including the important chroma difference) and measurement of the ugra/ fogra media wedge. Btw: You can run it with every calibration aim. You don't have to use the ugra recommendations which aim at ISO Coated softproofing (therefore the gamma 1.8 gradation).

In my OSD there is an option to adjust the contrast ratio, the default value is 50 but the range goes from 0 to 100.
That won't lead to a better contrast as whitelevel will be quite ideal in default setting. Higher settings will just show an increasing white crush.

I will try to increase the color from the OSD
I can't follow this step? Which setting do you mean? The RGB gains are default @100 and can (meaningfully) only be lowered.

Do you mean that it isn't good enough to measure the sRGB gamut?
There are many (freeware) tools for gamut comparisons in Lab. You could also send me your profile for a deeper look.

When I change the RGB channel from the OSD monitors switch to manual adjustment of the white color and creates this problem.
I'm quite confused because you wrote:

I have succesfully adjusted the white point using the rgb and brightness and the images in the background displayed ok.
Once I started the calibration after a few minutes the images lost a lot of grey tones, it lost it before that the calibration is finished.
Once calibration is finished and the icc profile has been saved, grey tonal are lost.
This would be typical for some videocard LUT corrections - as long as you mean slight banding in gradients. There can also occur some visual "shifting" when the desired gradation doesn't match the gradation of the display prior to calibration very well.

All corrections via OSD should be lossless (no banding in color gradients that exceed the default condition) as the 2433 has a 10bit LUT + FRC stage.

Best regards

Denis
 
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As already mentioned: A profile validation has quite limited expressiveness and a narrow application area. Regarding that the UDACT you can run gives a far better impression as it incorporates an extensive profile validation, grey axis analysis (including the important chroma difference) and measurement of the ugra/ fogra media wedge. Btw: You can run it with every calibration aim. You don't have to use the ugra recommendations which aim at ISO Coated softproofing (therefore the gamma 1.8 gradation).

I did not know that I can use the UDACT with every calibration aim, this is great. Thanks!
I done the test at 6500K, 2.2, 120cd/m2, my monitor passes the UGRA test also with that parameters.

That won't lead to a better contrast as whitelevel will be quite ideal in default setting. Higher settings will just show an increasing white crush.

Ok, thanks, I will not do that.

I can't follow this step? Which setting do you mean? The RGB gains are default @100 and can (meaningfully) only be lowered.

I have solved the problem of the big lack of grey tones.
A reboot after the calibration is needed I don't know why.
As soon as I start iColor software I loose some grey tones.

For example, see this image:
image.jpg


Before calibrating the monitor without any ICC profile I can read the entire words QUALITY CONTROL.

After calibrating I can read only: QUALITY CONTR
After calibrating and restarted the system I can read: QUALITY CONTRO
After calibrating and restarted the system if I ran iColor without doing anything I read QUALITY CONTR, I need to restart again to see QUALITY CONTRO again.

I don't understood why iColor makes my monitor loose some grey tones when started until the next reboot.

Now I can see QUALITY CONTRO, is it good enough for a calibrated monitor? I only lost the final L that is a mere #010101 color.

There are many (freeware) tools for gamut comparisons in Lab. You could also send me your profile for a deeper look.

What are the best freeware tool for this purpose?
Here my ICC profile (sRGB, 2.2, 6500K):
http://www.dpsoftware.org/host/EIZO_FlexScan_S2433W_08_05_2011.icc

This would be typical for some videocard LUT corrections - as long as you mean slight banding in gradients. There can also occur some visual "shifting" when the desired gradation doesn't match the gradation of the display prior to calibration very well.

All corrections via OSD should be lossless (no banding in color gradients that exceed the default condition) as the 2433 has a 10bit LUT + FRC stage.

I noticed that I can achieve 6500K in icolor when calibrating the white point with different RGB settings.
On monitor #1 for example I can achieve 6500K with R=94 G=89 B=96
I can achieve 6500K also with R=98 G=92 B=99
Both RGB settings produces 6500K and a good calibrated result on iColor (the points are all in the center)

What is the best RGB setting to achieve 6500K the one with lower RGB value or the higher one?
Is it true that when calibrating is it better to try to maintain the RGB value as high as possible? I noticed that in this way I generate less banding.

In any case during the calibration I need to sensibly lower the green to achieve a good calibration and this creates some banding on full screen green gradient.
Is this a problem?
 
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I have solved the problem of the big lack of grey tones.
A reboot after the calibration is needed I don't know why.
As soon as I start iColor software I loose some grey tones.

As I've never used iColor before, one of two things could be happening.

1) iColor is linearizing the video lut when launched and not restoring the calibrated lut on close.

OR

2) iColor is loading the calibrated lut when launched since it wasn't applied at boot-time.


You should attempt to figure out which is happening. Download Calibration Tester which will allow you to view your calibrated video lut.

1) is an annoyance, but it's rather trivial to reload your calibrated lut if iColor has a gamma loader. Running the "QuatoCalibrationLoader" on close should fix it.

2) would mean that iColor is crushing your blacks during calibration of the video lut. If this is the case, try raising the target black level to 0.2 cd/m2 in iColor before calibrating, and see if that fixes it. You would then need to figure out why the "QuatoCalibrationLoader" isn't loading your ICC profile video lut at start-up. It could be that your ICC profile hasn't been installed and activated for your monitor.
 
As I've never used iColor before, one of two things could be happening.
1) iColor is linearizing the video lut when launched and not restoring the calibrated lut on close.
OR
2) iColor is loading the calibrated lut when launched since it wasn't applied at boot-time.

I'm pretty sure that is the first one, at system boot I can clearly see that the ICC profile is perfectly loaded in the color managed application.
I downloaded the software you suggested but I don't understood how to use it.

2) would mean that iColor is crushing your blacks during calibration of the video lut. If this is the case, try raising the target black level to 0.2 cd/m2 in iColor before calibrating, and see if that fixes it. You would then need to figure out why the "QuatoCalibrationLoader" isn't loading your ICC profile video lut at start-up. It could be that your ICC profile hasn't been installed and activated for your monitor.

My monitors are capable of 0.11 when calibrated, why raise the black level to 0.2?
QuatoCalibrationLoader is loaded on startup because by default it goes in windows automatic execution.
 
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I'm pretty sure that is the first one, at system boot I can clearly see that the ICC profile is perfectly loaded in the color managed application.
I downloaded the software you suggested but I don't understood how to use it.
It shows you your video lut curve. Refresh reads the video lut again. Reset will linearize the video lut.

Do a few tests:

1)
Open Calibration Tester.
Click Reset.
Load QuatoCalibrationLoader.exe
Click Refresh.
Save.. to your Desktop as Loader.txt
Are the values for R, G, and B, equal? Is the line perfectly straight or curved?

2)
Open Calibration Tester.
Click Reset.
Open iColorDisplay
Click Refresh.
Save.. to your Desktop as iColor.txt
Are the values for R, G, and B, equal? Is the line perfectly straight or curved?

3)
Reboot your computer.
Open Calibration Tester.
Click Refresh.
Save.. to your Desktop as Boot.txt
Are the values for R, G, and B, equal? Is the line perfectly straight or curved?

Compare the three text files. Which are the same, and which are different?

My monitors are capable of 0.11 when calibrated, why raise the black level to 0.2?
If 2) in my previous post is your problem, iColor could be producing black crush with such a low black level. Raising the target black level may prevent that from happening.

QuatoCalibrationLoader is loaded on startup because by default it goes in windows automatic execution.
Even if it is loading properly, unless the ICC profile is installed properly for your monitor, it would do absolutely nothing. After doing the above tests with Calibration Tester, you should be able to determine what is happening.
 
It shows you your video lut curve. Refresh reads the video lut again. Reset will linearize the video lut.

Do a few tests:

1)
Open Calibration Tester.
Click Reset.
Load QuatoCalibrationLoader.exe
Click Refresh.
Save.. to your Desktop as Loader.txt
Are the values for R, G, and B, equal? Is the line perfectly straight or curved?

Slightly curved after loading manually QuatoCalibrationLoader, black crush reappear.

2)
Open Calibration Tester.
Click Reset.
Open iColorDisplay
Click Refresh.
Save.. to your Desktop as iColor.txt
Are the values for R, G, and B, equal? Is the line perfectly straight or curved?

Slightly curved as before.

3)
Reboot your computer.
Open Calibration Tester.
Click Refresh.
Save.. to your Desktop as Boot.txt
Are the values for R, G, and B, equal? Is the line perfectly straight or curved?

Compare the three text files. Which are the same, and which are different?

Straight. What does it means that ICC profile isn't loaded at boot but only after QuatoCalibrationLoader is manually started?
I setup photoshop/gimp to use my ICC profile and it seems that it loaded it correctly.

If 2) in my previous post is your problem, iColor could be producing black crush with such a low black level. Raising the target black level may prevent that from happening.

Does this raise my black level to 0.20?

Even if it is loading properly, unless the ICC profile is installed properly for your monitor, it would do absolutely nothing. After doing the above tests with Calibration Tester, you should be able to determine what is happening.

I have done the test but I haven't understood well what is happening.
I haven't heard that an external software like QuatoCalibrationLoader is needed to load an icc profile, what is the problem?

Thanks.
 
I haven't heard that an external software like QuatoCalibrationLoader is needed to load an icc profile, what is the problem?
It doesn't "load" the ICC profile but the corrections for the videocard LUT (that are saved within the profile). There are sometimes problems with those external loaders in Windows 7 at startup. Solution would be to use the Windows 7 LUT loader or to click at the iColor LUT loader manually after startup.

Does this raise my black level to 0.20?
Your blacklevel shouldn't create the problem. First it would be interesting to know how the gradation exactly is prior to calibration. You can use the UDACT for this task. Throw away any ICC profile, restart the computer and choose "Profilation" in iColor. After having saved this profile (that doesn't contain any LUT corrections) you can run the UDACT test (you can't run it without profilation because of license constraints). Post the result here.

Best regards

Denis
 
Hi Denis, I'm from mobile, I will post the UDACT results as you suggested this evening. Should I lower the black level in icolor before creating the profile for udact test?
 
sblantipodi, from your tests the following appears to be your current situation:

  • You ICC profile is installed correctly.
  • Your calibrated video lut from your ICC profile isn't being loaded on boot.
  • When you start iColor, it loads your calibrated video lut.
  • When you manually start QuatoCalibrationLoader, it loads your calibrated video lut.

  • PROBLEM: The calibrated video lut which iColor created is crushing your near-black tones.

If raising the target black level doesn't fix it, your monitor must have an lower (brighter) gamma near-black. If this is the case, you may get good results calibrating to an sRGB curve. You could also workaround the issue using iColor 'Finetuning' to manually adjust your video lut, and then re-profiling, but any change you make will skew your gamma target with potentially undesirable results. I think I'll just allow Denis work with you on this problem exclusively, since he is more familiar with Eizo monitors, iColor, and your DTP94.

There are sometimes problems with those external loaders in Windows 7 at startup. Solution would be to use the Windows 7 LUT loader or to click at the iColor LUT loader manually after startup.

I've seen this happen before when the LUT loader starts too early. The workaround is to remove the LUT loader from the startup folder, and creating a Scheduled Task for the LUT loader which starts at Log-on.
 
Your blacklevel shouldn't create the problem. First it would be interesting to know how the gradation exactly is prior to calibration. You can use the UDACT for this task. Throw away any ICC profile, restart the computer and choose "Profilation" in iColor. After having saved this profile (that doesn't contain any LUT corrections) you can run the UDACT test (you can't run it without profilation because of license constraints). Post the result here.

As per your request, this is the UDACT with monitor at default settings, no ICC profile loaded (I deleted all the ICC profile created previously and restarted the system),
started iColor, executed the profiling without calibration and than UDACT test.
Here the output:
http://www.dpsoftware.org/host/udact_at_default.pdf

In this way I have a good black level of 0.10cd/m2 but I don't have the big bluck crush seen previously, infact I can read on the image previously posted, QUALITY CONTRO without the final L, but I think that losing the final L is not a problem.

Keep in mind that without profiling and without calibration, with monitor at default settings (114cd/m2), no ICC profile, I can read the entire QUALITY CONTROL at 0.11cd/m2.

Please help. I would like to succesfully calibrate my monitor, create a profile, don't go over 0.12cd/m2 and don't loose too many grey tones, I would like to read at least QUALITY CONTRO. Is this possible? What do you think?

I really appreciate your help Denis, thanks!

If raising the target black level doesn't fix it, your monitor must have an lower (brighter) gamma near-black. If this is the case, you may get good results calibrating to an sRGB curve. You could also workaround the issue using iColor 'Finetuning' to manually adjust your video lut, and then re-profiling, but any change you make will skew your gamma target with potentially undesirable results. I think I'll just allow Denis work with you on this problem exclusively, since he is more familiar with Eizo monitors, iColor, and your DTP94.

I have tryed raising the minimum black level to 0.20 in iColor, doing that let me see the complete words QUALITY CONTROL (keep in mind that the final L is a mere #010101), so no grey tones were lost but the image is visibly worse. I'm used to work at about 0.12cd/m2, 0.20cd/m2 creates horrible images on my monitor, black isn't black enough for this monitor. When you seen 0.12cd/m2, higher black level is really a punch in the eye :)
 
I have tryed raising the minimum black level to 0.20 in iColor, doing that let me see the complete words QUALITY CONTROL (keep in mind that the final L is a mere #010101), so no grey tones were lost but the image is visibly worse. I'm used to work at about 0.12cd/m2, 0.20cd/m2 creates horrible images on my monitor, black isn't black enough for this monitor. When you seen 0.12cd/m2, higher black level is really a punch in the eye :)

The black level target of 0.2 cd/m2 was just a random high number to see if it solved the black crush, no need to keep it that way. In any case, it confirmed what I suspected. You are either hitting a limitation of your PVA monitor or iColor which is resulting in loss of near-black tones with a 2.2 gamma target and such a low black point. If a black level target of 0.12 cd/m2 exhibits black crush, try raising it in +0.01 cd/m2 increments until it goes away.

If you want to find out if this is a monitor limitation or an iColor limitation, download DispcalGUI and Argyll CMS. Set DispcalGUI as follows:
dispcallcdnative.png


Run 'Calibration Only', leave things as-is hitting '7' to start, and see what the results are (this takes awhile to complete). If it eliminates the loss of tones in the 'Quality Control' image in a non-color managed environment, then what you're seeing is an iColor issue. Unfortunately you need a correction matrix for your wide-gamut monitor, so unless you have access to a Eye-One Pro or Color Munki to create a correction matrix for the DTP94, you shouldn't use DispcalGUI normally.
 
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The black level target of 0.2 cd/m2 was just a random high number to see if it solved the black crush, no need to keep it that way. In any case, it confirmed what I suspected. You are either hitting a limitation of your PVA monitor or iColor which is resulting in loss of near-black tones with a 2.2 gamma target and such a low black point. If a black level target of 0.12 cd/m2 exhibits black crush, try raising it in +0.01 cd/m2 increments until it goes away.

I have tryed with 0.11cd/m2 and with 0.12cd/m2, both settings removes the black crush but the last two letters of the QUALITY CONTROL image now seems reddish.

The strange things is that without calibration, without profilation, without ICC, I can display the QUALITY CONTROL without any issues with 0.11cd/m2.

If you want to find out if this is a monitor limitation or an iColor limitation, download DispcalGUI and Argyll CMS. Set DispcalGUI as follows:
dispcallcdnative.png


Run 'Calibration Only', leave things as-is hitting '7' to start, and see what the results are (this takes awhile to complete). If it eliminates the loss of tones in the 'Quality Control' image in a non-color managed environment, then what you're seeing is an iColor issue. Unfortunately you need a correction matrix for your wide-gamut monitor, so unless you have access to a Eye-One Pro or Color Munki to create a correction matrix for the DTP94, you shouldn't use DispcalGUI normally.

I have runned calibration, profiling, udact test hundred of times, I'm hating the calibration :p
If it's a monitor limitation, why without profiling I can't see this issue?
 
If it's a monitor limitation, why without profiling I can't see this issue?
As your UDACT test shows, near black your gamma is ~1.8. iColor needs to darken your near-black tones from 1.8 gamma to your target of 2.2 gamma, and this is resulting in loss of shadow detail. Either your monitor does a poor job reproducing shadow detail with a low black point and 2.2 gamma (while perfectly fine at it's native near-black gamma of 1.8 gamma), or iColor isn't doing a very good job maintaining tone separation at low black levels.
 
As your UDACT test shows, near black your gamma is ~1.8. iColor needs to darken your near-black tones from 1.8 gamma to your target of 2.2 gamma, and this is resulting in loss of shadow detail. Either your monitor does a poor job reproducing shadow detail with a low black point and 2.2 gamma (while perfectly fine at it's native near-black gamma of 1.8 gamma), or iColor isn't doing a very good job maintaining tone separation at low black levels.

Now I set the iColor to a minimum black level of 0.12cd/m2, calibrated the monitor, profiled it and this is the new dact.
http://www.dpsoftware.org/host/udact_012.pdf

As I saied this way I lose no grey tones, I can display also #010101 (complete QUALITY COLOR) but the grey tones from #010101 to #040404 are reddish.

Is there anything that I can do to solve this issue?

If I don't set the minimum black level on iColor, I loose some grey tones only the #010101 and #020202 but I have no reddish tint on grey #030303 and #040404

mmmm...
 
Oh, so that's what you meant.

No target black level set = 0.12 cd/m2 & loss of tones?
&
Target black level set to 0.12 cd/m2 = 0.12 cd/m2 without loss of tones, but a reddish color cast?

Looking at the manual it appears that iColor doesn't correct the blackpoint color temperature to be neutral unless a custom black point is set. Your DTP94 must be reading what you describe as reddish as 6500K, which is to be expected since it's being corrected from your native blackpoint of ~8200K. How significant is the color cast?

The link to the UDACT report is broken. I assume it shows something near 6500K for 0% (Black)?
Edit: I found it. Yep, it shows your blackpoint was corrected from ~8200K to ~6900K.
 
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Oh, so that's what you meant.

No target black level set = 0.12 cd/m2 & loss of tones?
&
Target black level set to 0.12 cd/m2 = 0.12 cd/m2 without loss of tones, but a reddish color cast?

Correct, when I set the black level to 0.12cd/m2 the reddish color cast is visible only in the near black gray tones from #010101 to #040404

Looking at the manual it appears that iColor doesn't correct the blackpoint color temperature to be neutral unless a custom black point is set. Your DTP94 must be reading what you describe as reddish as 6500K, which is to be expected since it's being corrected from your native blackpoint of ~8200K. How significant is the color cast?

The link to the UDACT report is broken. I assume it shows something near 6500K for 0% (Black)?
Edit: I found it. Yep, it shows your blackpoint was corrected from ~8200K to ~6900K.

I fixed the broken link with the latest udact test with black level manually set to 0.12cd/m2.
Color cast is significant the the near black grey tones from #010101 to #040404, grey is red.
 
As per your request, this is the UDACT with monitor at default settings, no ICC profile loaded (I deleted all the ICC profile created previously and restarted the system),
started iColor, executed the profiling without calibration and than UDACT test.
Here the output:
http://www.dpsoftware.org/host/udact_at_default.pdf
Don't have time to read through all posts but in short: The UDACT shows a native gradation (@ 2.2 setting via OSD) that goes in the direction of sRGB. Therefore the LUT corrections to accomplished to achieve a gradation with a fixed gamma of 2.2 will lead to darker tonal values in the lowest region in comparison. In color managed applications you will get the gradation of the source material (you can see this when opening the test picture in Photoshop and assigning the sRGB working color space profile if not already assigned). What you can do (this will decrease a loss of tonal values during calibration too in your case) is to calibrate with the sRGB gradation.

Now I set the iColor to a minimum black level of 0.12cd/m2, calibrated the monitor, profiled it and this is the new dact.
http://www.dpsoftware.org/host/udact_012.pdf
That also shows ~ a sRGB gradation instead of a fixed gamma of 2.2. That's why you can see the dark values well.

Best regards

Denis
 
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That shows ~ a sRGB gradation instead of a fixed gamma of 2.2. That's why you can see the dark values well.

Best regards

Denis

Thanks for the help.
Yes in this way I can see all grey tones without any loss but darker grey tones became reddish. Is there a way to maintain darker grey tones without the reddish problem?
 
Yes in this way I can see all grey tones without any loss but darker grey tones became reddish. Is there a way to maintain darker grey tones without the reddish problem?
Don't raise the blacklevel and calibrate with the sRGB gradation out of iColor Display.

Best regards

Denis
 
I mentioned calibrating to sRGB previously. The only problem is that the sRGB curve is a poor match for anything except working in sRGB itself (i.e. targeting the Web). It's strange that Eizo factory calibrated their wide-gamut monitor with a sRGB-like curve, especially if not using a sRGB emulation mode or anything. For best results in a color managed environment, you really want your gamma curve to match your working space gamma curve. For a wide-gamut space like AdobeRGB1998, that means a gamma of 2.2. Not the end of the world, it just means slightly increased banding and/or color-shifts when not working in sRGB while color-managed.

sblantipodi, did you ever compare a color-managed and non-color-managed environment when you were noticing loss of tones? Was it the same with both? I'm curious if say, non-color-managed had loss of tones, while color-manged didn't lose any tones.

Color cast is significant the the near black grey tones from #010101 to #040404, grey is red.
Hmm, do you still get a color cast in those tones if you disable the DTP94 wide-gamut correction matrix in iColor? It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of a wide-gamut correction matrix loosing accuracy near-black. It's very possible that the DTP94 may not need a correction matrix at very low black levels/tones, and the correction matrix is just making things worse (creating your strong red color cast).
 
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. For best results in a color managed environment, you really want your gamma curve to match your working space gamma curve. For a wide-gamut space like AdobeRGB1998, that means a gamma of 2.2. Not the end of the world, it just means slightly increased banding and/or color-shifts when not working in sRGB while color-managed.
As he can't achieve the gamma 2.2 gradation via OSD controls I would call this a "zero sum game" regarding a loss of tonal values when working in color managed applications. If ensuring the gradation via videocard LUT (theoretical exception: higher accuracy and dithering) the loss will occur on OS level otherwise through transformations of the CMM (which can be coupled with dithering too). Anyway: The loss of tonal values is not very big in this case - and because his screen is quite neutral out of the box all corrections together will still be small.

Saying that it is of course recommendable to achieve the desired gradation on display level (if it has an extensive electronic with LUT >8bit). A good example would be ECI-RGB 2.0 as working color space. Corrections on software level (regardless if via CMM or video card LUT) from a gamma 2.2 to L* gradation would lead to a quite huge loss of tonal values (visible banding).

Best regards

Denis
 
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Don't raise the blacklevel and calibrate with the sRGB gradation out of iColor Display.

Best regards

Denis

Grey tones increased in this way,
http://www.dpsoftware.org/host/udact_rgb.pdf
now the udact marks 95.2% (the highest score I have seen in UDACT) but I still no see the complete QUALITY CONTROL,
I see QUALITY CONTR, this means that I lose #020202 and #010101.

The only way I have founded to see the complete QUALITY CONTROL image is to not calibrate and not profile the monitor using default settings,
another way is to raise the black level to 0.11, in this way udact scores less grey tones but I can see the entire QUALITY CONTROL, anyway I don't like this solution because darker grey tones became reddish.

Am I out of luck?
 
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a sensational news :)

Probably I'm not able to use iColor but now it seems that all is ok, correct me if I'm wrong.

Usually to calibrate for 6500K, 2.2, 120cd/m2, I used the AdobeRGB preset or the sRGB preset.

Now I have manually setup the iColor without using presets, I selected custom instead of a preset and manually selected 6500K, 2.2 gamma, 120cd/m2 and than selected the black level to "deepest black level" instead of the automatic choose "Personalized: 0.0"

Now the image is really better than before, I have got deep black with absolutely no loosing in grey tones, at least my eye don't see any loss in grey tones, also #010101 is visible without any color shift, QUALITY CONTROL is fully displayed as I would like to.

I think that this is the best setting I can find for my monitor, this is the latest UDACT.
http://www.dpsoftware.org/host/udact_manual_2.2_deepest_black_level.pdf

I think that I can't do better on my monitor. Now I'm totally satisfied.
Can I do better?

Why the S2433W reviewed by prad achieve 97.8% of grey tones in the udact and I achieved only 95.2% as max when using sRGB gamma?
 
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With the latest calibration (explained in the post above) I can see no loss in grey tones also in unmanaged color applications, great.

I would like to understand what caused the black crush for better understandings.
 
Can I do better?

Not on this monitor.
"Quality Control" is not a tool to calibrate your monitor. This is an illustration of color shift on your monitor (better visible fron an angle than head on - a typical PVA flaw).
The turtle picture would probably be more informative.
 
Not on this monitor.
"Quality Control" is not a tool to calibrate your monitor. This is an illustration of color shift on your monitor (better visible fron an angle than head on - a typical PVA flaw).
The turtle picture would probably be more informative.

Hi dear Albo, not to diminish you but I would like to have a more "informative" answer than this :)
 
a sensational news :)

Probably I'm not able to use iColor but now it seems that all is ok, correct me if I'm wrong.

Usually to calibrate for 6500K, 2.2, 120cd/m2, I used the AdobeRGB preset or the sRGB preset.

Now I have manually setup the iColor without using presets, I selected custom instead of a preset and manually selected 6500K, 2.2 gamma, 120cd/m2 and than selected the black level to "deepest black level" instead of the automatic choose "Personalized: 0.0"

Now the image is really better than before, I have got deep black with absolutely no loosing in grey tones, at least my eye don't see any loss in grey tones, also #010101 is visible without any color shift, QUALITY CONTROL is fully displayed as I would like to.

I think that this is the best setting I can find for my monitor, this is the latest UDACT.
http://www.dpsoftware.org/host/udact_manual_2.2_deepest_black_level.pdf

I think that I can't do better on my monitor. Now I'm totally satisfied.
Can I do better?

another question.
what is the difference in iColor between a custom settings using 6500K, 2.2 gamma, 120cd/m2 and an Adobe RGB preset?
Is there some difference?

Another question.
In the next two weeks an LG W2363D Monitor will arrive here, obviously the monitor will be used only for 3D programming, no color critical work needed anyway a colorimeter is here.
Is it better a calibrated LG W2363D or an uncalibrated LG W2363D?
I heard that a monitor with a <8bit LUT may create some problem when calibrating, should I avoid to calibrate or profilie this monitor?
 
sblantipodi, did you ever compare a color-managed and non-color-managed environment when you were noticing loss of tones? Was it the same with both? I'm curious if say, non-color-managed had loss of tones, while color-manged didn't lose any tones.

I have just compared the color-managed and non-color-managed environment,
if I leave the black level to 0.0 I can see the loss in grey tones in both managed and unmanaged environment.

Setting the black level to deepest instead of personalized: 0.0
improved the situation a lot, anyway I can see no improvement in the grey tone test in the udact.
You can see it in previous posts.

Probably setting iColor to personalized black: 0.0cd/m2 creates some black crush because it try to lower my black level too much. I think.
If I set deepest black instead and than I run QuatoCalibrationLoader image became less darker than the previous calibrations.

Setting iColor to Custom, gamma 2.2, black level: deepest, white point 6500K,
created the best profile I have seen, no visible loss in grey tones but I can see a small reddish in some grey tones. I can't see the reddish grey if use the srgb preset of my monitor.

sRGB preset red=98, g=96, b=99

Calibrated white point with icolor:
r=98, g=92, b=99

I don't think that the small reddish tint I see in the grey tones depends on profiling since I can see it with both profile loaded and not loaded.

As I repeat using presets the little reddish tint on grey tones vanish.

Some idea on how to reduce reddish tint? Using gamma srgb doesn't helped.
 
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Did you ever try calibrating without the wide-gamut correction matrix? Was there still a red tint?

This may just be something you'll have to live with, if you are determined to keep such a low black level. Unfortunately your DTP94 is reading the native blackpoint of your monitor nowhere near 6500K, and large color temperature corrections are very lossy. Setting iColor to 'Deepest Black Level' doesn't correct your blackpoint, but it still likely blends near-black colors from 6500K slowly down to your native blackpoint for a smooth transition.

If this really bothers you and are willing to toss out full-automation, just manually edit your video lut post-calibration (average near-black values and make R=G=B where you see a color cast) and then profile with iColor. Your only other option would be buying a different monitor which has a native black-point closer to 6500K or paying extra for a monitor with a hardware lut which can be calibrated. You can't really expect perfection from a PVA monitor in regards to black-crush and shadows, even if it is an Eizo.
 
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