Best AGP card to upgrade an old system for gaming?

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Shaitan00

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
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An age old question, and I know I am going to get a lot of ^$@# for asking but, I am looking to buy an AGP video card to upgrade my old system (my 2nd system) for gaming. I find that most of the newer games, when looking to simply play (just playing at LOW everything) can't even do that much with the hardware I have (I assume mostly due to Directx & Sharder Model not allowing me to even try - as well as other things). So I am looking for a cost-effective upgrade to allow me to continue gaming just a little bit longer...

Current System Specs:
Pentium 4 3.0GHz (HT)
2.00 gigs of OCZ RAM
ATI 9800pro 256megs (is it really that bad?)
Native Resolution = 1440x900

Now I know of a bunch of options - but of course I am looking for the best hardware for the price, I don't want to buy a $200 AGP HD3850 if it is completly bottlenecked by my system and would perform as good as a $50 2400Pro (for example) - there would just be no point...

Some of the Options I've seen:
2400PRO ~ 61$ (VisionTek)
2600XT ~ 75-150$ (PowerColor or HIS 512MB)
3450 ~ 55$ (Asus AH3450/HTP/256MB)
3650 ~ 100-110$ (Asus, Saphire, HIS, PowerColor)
3850 ~ 150$ (Saphire or HIS

Now, so I can look like a total moron, my goal would be to be able to play things like Scared 2, Diablo III (when it comes out), and Unreal Tournement III (at lowest possible graphic settings) - and hopefully some of the new stuff to come out over the next 12-24 months before I upgrade the 2nd box to something better.

So - any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
 
A 3850 is the best you're going to find for AGP, but your CPU will be a major bottleneck. Anything less than a "high end" Athlon X2 or E6xxx is pretty much worthless for any serious gaming these days.

Your best bet would be to save for a whole new system and send that NetBust CPU packing pronto.
 
Give it up and go PCI-E. It's surprising how cheap you can go.

A good P43 LGA-775 DDR2 PCI-E 2.0 motherboard: $75-$100. Maybe less if you go with a G31 motherboard.
2GB DDR2-800 RAM: as low as $20 with rebates
Intel E5200: $83 (dual-core, will run rings around your current CPU even if you don't overclock it to 3.0Ghz which is really trivial)
nVidia 9800GT or ATi 4830: $90-$110, way better than an AGP 3850.

total: around $300. Add $50 for an Antec Earthwatts 430W PSU from newegg if your current PSU is old or weak. Will play the games you want to MUCH better.
 
evilsofa said:
Give it up and go PCI-E. It's surprising how cheap you can go.

A good P43 LGA-775 DDR2 PCI-E 2.0 motherboard: $75-$100. Maybe less if you go with a G31 motherboard.
2GB DDR2-800 RAM: as low as $20 with rebates
Intel E5200: $83 (dual-core, will run rings around your current CPU even if you don't overclock it to 3.0Ghz which is really trivial)
nVidia 9800GT or ATi 4830: $90-$110, way better than an AGP 3850.

total: around $300. Add $50 for an Antec Earthwatts 430W PSU from newegg if your current PSU is old or weak. Will play the games you want to MUCH better.
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Less than that too if he sells his components (I got $50 for a 9700 pro in 2007). Compare that to $150 for a new video card and it's a better investment.
 
A good AGP card is a X1950.. they are cheap and they really have a good speed in playing games below 1280x1024 resolution

Rob in Mesquite,Tx
 
evilsofa said:
total: around $300. Add $50 for an Antec Earthwatts 430W PSU from newegg if your current PSU is old or weak. Will play the games you want to MUCH better.
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It's an especially good deal for $300 if you consider him buying the AGP HD3850 instead for $150.

For the extra $150 you get the whole new C2D system, plus a better video card.
 
Thing is - I can get a 3650 512MB AGP for around $80 CDN, that is cheaper then getting a new system no matter what I sell - and I don't tend to sell my Hardware (gives me a 3rd / backup system) - so financially it still isn't a horrible idea to simply upgrade.
 
Shaitan00 said:
financially it still isn't a horrible idea to simply upgrade.
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Well, that's debatable. Obviously it's your money, but spending 1/3 the amount on an old dead-end card rather than investing in a system that will accept much better cards is, arguably, a very poor choice.

At the end of the day, you want good performance with the hardware you have. In the long run--assuming that you continue to want good performance--this ~$80 will be money that you could have used to offset a more forward-looking build. When you do upgrade--and this will be inevitable, given sufficient time--you will be buying new everything because everything you have now will be chronically outdated (incompatible) relative to current hardware. By upgrading at this point rather than moving to newer hardware, you will be pushing the point at which you will be able to buy new architecture farther into the future because you will be spending more money, now, on old parts rather than new ones.

Of course, that assumes that your financial situation will be constant. Obviously you know your personal situation better than we do--and, as stated previously, it's your money.

Just my take on it.
 
Phyltre: Ok - I see the math there - but no matter how hard I try I can't find a C2D system for $300 CDN (maybe in the US) - where I am from the cheapest ranges around the $400 + tax.

And - forget the $80 3650, how about a $20 2600Pro (256M)?
Still sound like a bad idea?
 
I agree with the other posters. Save and make the move to a PCI-E platform BUT if you are dead set on getting an AGP card for your system, 3850 hands down.
 
Just want to chime in here: I've noticed people complaining lately that the latest round of AGP cards from ATI have very poor support in their drivers. It's gotten to the point that you'll wait for three or four major releases to get one that supports AGP.

Now, this is totally understandable: AGP is out the door, down the block, and way over in the next county already - it's dead Jim! But the sad fact is uninformed people like you keep buying the damn things, and perpetuating the dead horse. Maybe you could stop the vicious cycle and upgrade?

It's not as expensive as you think!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-2-overclock,2113.html

WANT TO PAY EVEN LESS THAN THE ABOVE?

* Use the cooler that comes with the processor, and drop-down the configuration to a 4830 (saves you $50).

* Consider re-using your case (saves you $50), and if your current Pentium 4 is a Prescott core, then your power supply might just have enough juice (saves you $40).

This will still blow-away your current system, and play all current games!
 
defaultuser: but the price still doesn't compare ... I am looking at spending $30 CDN for a 2600pro or $70 CDN for a 3650 - as opposed to the $600 US + tax (save a little here-and-there) your post mentions.

This is not for my main box - my current PC is more then adequate - this is for my 2nd PC which isn't used all that mcuh and only for LAN gaming when I have friends over - I don't see the need to spend the extra $500 ... at least not when I can get away with under $100 to save me another year or so...

Or am I nutz?
 
Shaitan00 said:
defaultuser: but the price still doesn't compare ... I am looking at spending $30 CDN for a 2600pro or $70 CDN for a 3650 - as opposed to the $600 US + tax (save a little here-and-there) your post mentions.

This is not for my main box - my current PC is more then adequate - this is for my 2nd PC which isn't used all that mcuh and only for LAN gaming when I have friends over - I don't see the need to spend the extra $500 ... at least not when I can get away with under $100 to save me another year or so...

Or am I nutz?
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Okay. Don't come to bitch on the forums when you find that driver releases don't work (not really an issue for older games). You've been warned :)

Also, most newer games REQUIRE a dual-core processor. You're fine if you're playing older games, but several games released in the last year would be processor-limited on your system.
 
I am not sure that anything you listed is any faster then the 9800pro, other then the x19xx agp or the x3850 agp cards.

the 3650/2600 agp cards are not really fast cards reguardless. Your best bet for milage would be to sit tight until you can afford to upgrade the whole CPU
 
Relativist: Asus P4C800-E deluxe - pretty good old P4 AGP board.

kioras: Seriously, you are saying that the 2600pro 512megs isn't going to improve much when compared to my 9800pro 256megs?

defaultluser: seriously? Will the driver situation be that bad?
 
 
Ok, I'm going to dispense a little tough love here....


Dude, what is wrong with you? You post here asking for advice, but when the community arrives at a nearly unanimous consensus on what you should do, you argue as if to tell them that they're wrong. WTF is that? If you know what the best course of action is already, when why did you ask for help in the first place? Just because the advice may not be what you want to hear, but that doesn't change the fact that it is the best course of action.

Shaitan00 said:
I don't see the need to spend the extra $500 ... at least not when I can get away with under $100 to save me another year or so...
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Look; I completely understand being broke; I've been there. Actually, I AM there. And if you're anything like me, when you're broke as fuck, you try to figure out the absolute cheapest way to get what you need. If that were the case, I'd never even consider giving you a hard time. HOWEVER...

This is not for my main box - my current PC is more then adequate - this is for my 2nd PC...
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You can afford two computers? Then you're not poor. Ergo, you're not being "thrifty;" you're being cheap, and stubborn. And a pain in the ass.

...which isn't used all that much and only for LAN gaming when I have friends over...
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Then why bother having it? Obviously I don't know the details of your situation, but for MOST folks, there's absolutely no reason why they can't work AND play on the same system. And really, if money is a concern for you, you'd probably be even better off with having one system; you could sell off all the parts from your "[not] used all that much" system(s), and use the proceeds to beef up your main system.

Or am I nutz?
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You're not nuts. You are looking for somebody to tell you what you want to hear; that AGP motherboards are, in this day and age, somehow worth saving. But in this day and age, AGP motherboards are NOT worth saving, and anybody who has even the faintest idea about what the hell they're talking about would be remiss if they said they were. Lastly, you really should bear in mind that 1) everybody who has given you advice- myself included- is just looking to help you out (if we didn't give a shit, we'd have skipped your thread completely and let you waste your money on a shiny polished turd that is a new AGP card), and 2) on the whole, the people here actually know what they're talking about.

But in the end, it's your money. Do whatever makes you happy, my friend. Good luck. :)










PS:
...my goal would be to be able to play....some of the new stuff to come out over the next 12-24 months
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You don't actually think that the dinosaur you currently have on life support will be able to handle something that's released two years from now, do you? Really? Really?! Come on; you know better than that.
 
The thing is you probably cant go even high end AGP with the PSU in that. Your better off either just dealing with what you got or buildin a new AMD AM2 gaming rig for about 500 or so and using the os key and peripherals from that other system.
 
hossdaddy said:
Shaitan00 i live in the GTA and have priced out a couple upgrades for you;

Intel build;
Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 Socket LGA775, 2.5 GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 2MB L2 Cache, 45nm $103.99
Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L Socket 775 $63.99
OCZ Reaper Hpc Edition PC2-6400 DDR2 2GB 2X1GB DDR2-800 $29.99 (-$10mir)
Sapphire ATI RADEON HD 4670 512MB GDDR3 HD Audio 320 Stream Processor $100.99
Total: $299 + tax and no shipping if you live near one of their stores which they have 20 in Ontario.

AMD build;

AMD Athlon X2 6000+ / 3.1 GHz - Socket AM2 $97.99
ASUS SKT.AM2+AMD780V+ $85.50
OCZ OCZ2V8002GK 2GB PC2-6400 (DDR2-800) $25.50
ASUS EN8800GS/HTDP/384M PCI-E 2.0, GEFORCE 8800GS 384MB DDR3 $89.99
Total: $298.98

Either way it is do-able.
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you forgot a case and PSU. and if you mean using current case then still will most likely need new PSU still.
 
He can go even cheaper if he buys used parts from other forum members; they get some of their original investment back, he gets cheap parts and a computer that can run more than just Scorch. Everybody wins.
 
maybe Beta but he hasnt given enough info for us to truly help. Also the 4670 does NOT require a pci-x 6 pin hook up. When it comes to the 8800gs maybe he will. But thats an outstanding value for a gpu right there, but if it requires a new psu(assuming the one he has is no that old and decent to begin with) its not the best way to go and i would recomend the 4670.
 
Funny how this turns into a "Upgrade your whole rig" thread :)

All points are dead on, but lets face it, the OP simply came on here, asking what video card would give him the best upgrade for his config.

He didnt come in here asking to spend 4x as much :)

AGP are out the door, but if thats what the OP wants, give it to him. Let him be unhappy when he gets it haha
 
if it's just a crap computer, why not still go a cheap route and go AMD? It will perform a lot better than your P4 and you can probably get the ram, cpu, and mobo for less than $100 USD:

athlon x2 4200+: $35.99
ecs gf7050m-m: $44.99
2GB crucial ram: $14.99
Galaxy 9800GT: $90 after $30 MIR

That's less than $200. for the US, its all free shipping too.
 
Wayfarer: Just for fun I'm going to try and anwser some of your comments (love the though-love eheh - much appreciated), but before do bear in mind that I am in no way ignorning the advice given to me, the reason I ask is knowing that people here probably know better then me ... thus the post itself - but I must always play devil's advocate a little ...

So (not expecting any answers but want to clarify some things so you do not consider me a complete moron), from the start...

1 - my intent was not argue anything, I am simply asking if it is really as bad as it sounds, is the driver support for AGP really that bad? would the HD2600 really not make any difference with my 9800pro? Never disagreed but was trying to gage the level of effect. When an HD2600 is offered for $20 and everyone is recommending spending $100 USD+tax on a system instead, well one has to reconfirm... at least I did ...

2- Bought a P4 5-6 years ago, saved up since then to buy my main box, so yes right now I have 2 computers, my new Quad and my old P4 ... how does that not make me broke after spending all my $ on my new system?

3- The 2nd PC isn't for ME to game, it is for me to play with my friends when they come over, meaning I game on my new PC but they use my old P4 ... (LAN)

4- won't comment on me being nutz or not ... depends on the days I guess :)
Thanks for all the feedback - much appreciated everyone.

As for the 12-24 months comment, I bow my head and admit that might have been a little stupid ... had to try...

I like the idea of an AMD for ~ $200 USD, looking into that now... but still a lot more then I was looking to spend... might be worth just leaving things as-is I guess.

Again - thanks for all the advice everyone, and the "though-love" was much appreciated and respected :)
 
I was in the same dilemma a couple of times over the years and the last time I ended up going with an eVGA 9800GT. Cost me a tad over $400.
 
Actually, I just thought about it;

you may be able to buy a newer LGA775 mobo for your P4 and just get some new ram and a PCI-E video card for less than the AMD solution even.

Foxconn 945 based mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186139 - $39.99

Crucial 2x1024 PC5300 memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146526 - $14.99

After that, you can pick pretty much any "high" end card taht came out after the 9800 (2900, 3870, 8800GT, 9800GT, etc.)
 
zaxour: my P4 is S478 (not LGA 775) so I would need a new CPU. At this point I am just buying an entire new system ;)
 
Asrock MB: $60
cheap C2D: $70

Keep all your old parts and upgrade to a PCIe video card later. In fact you might use the card you have in your main rig now if you upgrade it. The point is, you need a motherboard that's flexible. This is a second PC. Otherwise, wait till the next get AGP card or just get the 3850. Do some work optimizing, max out the RAM if you haven't.
 
Got my Sapphire 4830, LOVE IT! All games I have run all max everything incl AA and AF at 1280x1024 (not surprising).
When my 24" widescreen gets here we will rly put it to the test.

Oh and it oc's like a beast, the fan is super quiet even at 100% (my 8600gt at half speed for desktop work was louder), and when not gaming the sapphire clocks down to like 20% speed and the fan turns all the way off most of the time haha.
At full load overclocked @690 core, 1120 memory with fan on full, it hasn't passed 55c yet and is cool to the touch. The cooler on this thing is beastly, 80mm fan, copper core hs. I was going to remove it and apply AS5, definitely not even neccessary with these temps.

I think this will go over 700 core and 1150 memory stock cooling and voltages, craziness. Easily as fast as a fresh 4850 at these speeds.
 
so whats your budget Shaitan00? Im in the GTA and know a few good shops to avoid having anything shipped. For value right now AMD is still the way to go, ultimately Intel is faster but not enough to justify the higher dollar(and this only matters with cpu biased games anyway) I just priced out some solid builds for friends for $500 or under assuming no os is needed. If you can re-use the dvd burner case monitor etc we can do even better.
 
IMO try to get something like an old Geforce 6800 AGP from ebay, just don't spend too much money.
 
There are also the Nvidia 7600 and 7800 agp cards. Those can be found second hand for a decent price.
 
Shaitan00 zaxour: my P4 is S478 (not LGA 775) so I would need a new CPU. At this point I am just buying an entire new system
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thats why we are asking.:)
 
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