Best 24inch monitor (non heavy AG)?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by aquablue, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    I'm looking for a high quality 24 (or 23 if necessary) inch monitor. Preferably without heavy AG coating (i.e glossy or very light AG with no sparkly effect), good for clear non distorted text quality, web browsing, and financial work (charts). Also decent for multimedia. Preferably IPS or similar. I can't see to find any decent candidates. I'll look at TN if nothing is available in IPS. There doesn't seem to be many decent 24inch monitors around. I wanted a 27 but I find the text a little too small I find.
     
  2. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'd like the same, but not so many options out there that I have found.

    Samsung 24" 650D (semi-glossy, I assume. VA panel, 24", 16:9)
    Samsung 24" PLS (w/backlight bleed on seemingly every monitor for that size, 16:10)
    Eizo 23" PLS (perhaps with some backlight bleed, no height adjustable stand. Sort of expensive too, for the size.)
    AOC 23" IPS (reports of less coating, but not sure how much less. Super cheap, < $200, mediocre reviews, but probably okay for the price).

    Otherwise, look at older, VA models?

    I considered a VA Dell, 2408, etc, but they are more expensive than I thought they'd be, around $250-$300 on eBay.

    There is also an older Apple 24", glossy IPS, but that too is a lot for a used model, around $600 or so.
     
  3. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    Is it worth buying a used ACD 24inch?
     
  4. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    Good question, and not entirely sure of the answer. I've considered it for myself. I even looked on craigslist for folks selling them.

    But unfortunately people on craigslist tend to be insane, and want close to the original price for things... or if they sell it cheap-ish, they offhandedly mention something like how the backlight doesn't work anymore.

    Personally, I have a hard time paying $500+ for any used monitor. If I spend that much, I want something pristine.
     
  5. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    So, is that really all there is for ips in this size without ag?

    if so, whats the highest quality non-ips available today in this size with a glossy or light coat?
     
  6. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm not an expert, so perhaps I missed some models, but that's all I know of. The problem is that LG makes IPS panels. And they put the AG coat on. So almost everyone who sells IPS monitors also has the same AG coating.

    I'm hoping other manufacturers start selling more PLS panels or perhaps the updated LG panels won't be so bad.

    If you don't want TN, the only other non-IPS screen with a light coat is that 650D, VA panel from Samsung (that I know of). It got one decent review (in German), but not a ton of other reviews out there on it. They do make a 27"er of that same model, at 1980x1020, so perhaps that could interest you. I've also considered it, as unlike most people, I don't really like a super high dpi. As you mentioned, it makes text really tiny. Plus side, it's also relatively cheap, at < $400 for the 27" model.

    I'm not sure what a good TN panel would be, if you want to go that route.
     
  7. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    Thanks. What about the other flexiscan eizo models? Are they all heavy AG?
     
  8. NCX

    NCX [H]ardness Supreme

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    HP 2511x is the only 24" ish non 120hz glossy TN. The coating on the 2408 (medium AG) is still pretty strong compared to semi-glossy coatings. The 650D uses an a-mva panel and is faster than the BenQ VA panels which are also semi glossy.

    PRAD also just reviewed a Phillips VA panel which is the fastest VA to come out in a while but I don't think it is avaliable in north america and I don't know what type of coating it uses.

    Except for the AOC and a 23" fujitsu all matte IPS use the same aggressive ag coating (I'm 99% sure).
     
  9. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    @aquablue

    Not sure. I haven't look into them much, because their prices are way too much for me. Some of them make the ACD look cheap in comparison.

    I was considering picking up a cheap, used Eizo S2000 (20"er), but the dpi may be bothersome to me. I think most new Eizos (outside of their Foris line), go for $1000-$2000ish,and up.
     
  10. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    So, what is the solution to my problem? The HP? ACD 24? The Samsung PLS or the Eizo PLS or what?

    You mentioned 120hz tn. Would that be a good solution to my problem?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  11. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    The solution is going to be very subjective per person. It's basically a situation where you pick your poison.

    PLS = backlight bleed, but nice colors, semi-glossy.
    Samsung VA = nice blacks, poor color coverage
    AOC IPS = perhaps less AG coating, so-so panel
    Eizo PLS = potentially some issues such as minor bleed, lack of adjustable stand, and rather expensive
    ACD 24 = expensive and probably have to buy it used
    TN panel = ... it's a TN panel.

    For myself, I dislike all current options available to me, so I am simply going to wait for now. If I find a good deal on the ACD, I may pick one up. Or perhaps I'll find a cheapo VA display (meaning super cheap on ebay), just to tide me over for a while. The AOC is sort of tempting, but I'd want to know how much coating it has.

    In about a month or so, newer LG IPS panels may be getting released, so it's also possible some of them may have less coating.
     
  12. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    So, which would be the best choice for reading text, web browsing, and financial information? Clear and easy to read text is important. Does the heavy AG coating cause problems with text clarity or not?

    Also, how would the Samsung mpva panel compare with the PLS?

    Also, how are the 120hz glossy TN panels for text, etc?
     
  13. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    The AG coating certainly caused a problem with text for me. I previously owned a U2412, and the main reason I returned it was because reading text on it bothered my eyes. White backgrounds appeared to have a sparkly or grainy look -- so basically any screen (such as many webpages) that was white or light colored, made text harder to read.

    For some people, the coating doesn't bother them at all. I just know it bothered me a lot. For the larger screens, such as the Dell 27", it tends to bother people even more, due to the dot pitch.

    You can check out Prad for reviews on the mpva (and I think PLS) panel.The VA review is in German, so if you don't speak it. you can have google translate for you.

    The PLS would probably be quite nice, if so many of them didn't have backlight bleed problems. I guess you could try it, if you get it from somewhere with a good return policy. Just be prepared to possibly go through a couple until you may find one decent enough. Unless bleed doesn't bother you... then you may be happy with it right away.

    A glossy or matte TN panel should be fine for text. It's everything else they have a problem with.
     
  14. neville12

    neville12 [H]Lite

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    The W2420R, maybe?
     
  15. alan_b

    alan_b n00bie

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    I have requirements similar to yours (text, web, multimedia, no games). I had the HP ZR24W for about a week and returned it because the AG coating really bothered me. I replaced it with the BenQ BL2400, and have been happy with it. It has semi-gloss coating, so the text is sharp. I do care about color accuracy for photography and multimedia, and find the color and contrast good enough (similar to the HP ZR24W). The weakness of this monitor is the slow response time, but I do not play games.
    I bought it directly from BenQ:
    http://shop.benq.us/ProductDetail.aspx?id=255
     
  16. Pylon

    Pylon [H]ard|Gawd

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  17. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    @Pylon

    That may be fine if the OP is okay with regular AG coating (not thick IPS coating). Review here:
    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_ex231wp.htm

    As for coating, they say:

    The coating of the screen is a normal Anti-glare option as opposed to any glossy solution. This shows some slight graininess but does not appear to be as noticeable as some modern IPS panels for instance. This is not something which has ever really bothered me, and on this screen I can't see it being a big issue.


    So I expect it has a standard coating. If wanting semi-glossy or glossy, I'm not so sure it'll be suitable.
     
  18. bigmac11

    bigmac11 Limp Gawd

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    I have the HP w2408h and it has a glossy screen with no ag coating. Out of all the TN monitors I've owned or used it has the best picture of any of them. Biggest issue is viewing angles are awful:(
     
  19. stefanp67

    stefanp67 [H]Lite

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    I tried a few Dell Ultrasharps but i couldn't stand the heavy AG so i bought a S24A850DW. In daylight the blb on my S24A850DW is not an issue and looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    However in a dark room the blb looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    I have gotten used to the blb and and it doesn't bother me anymore. When watching movies or gaming with a resolution of 1920x1080 the blb is in the black frame below the picture.

    At least one person in a Swedish forum (www.sweclockers.se) has reported he got a S24A850DW without blb, this S24A850Dw was bought in the last week so it is possible the latest batches has got better although the safest is to make sure you can return it if need be.

    Here's a calibration report when using Samsungs own icc-profile (R=51, G=53, B=46, BR=27, Gamma Mode 2):

    [​IMG]

    Here's a calibration report when using a calibrated icc-profile (R=51, G=53, B=46, BR=27, Gamma Mode 1):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  20. stefanp67

    stefanp67 [H]Lite

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    Here's a few camera shots of the calibrated S24A850DW:

    A few Interfacelift wallpaper shots:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    The only high resolution movies i have Resident Evil 2 och 3:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Skyrim:

    [​IMG]



    Crysis 2:

    [​IMG]



    View from the castle Alanya (Turkey) from last summer:

    [​IMG]


    Also the advantages of IPS screens are clearly shown since some of the shots were from an angle where i guess a TN-panel would look very washed out.
     
  21. Outbreaker

    Outbreaker Limp Gawd

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    I send my LG IPS235P back because of the heavy AG coating and the IPS glow, I'm coming form a CRT and the IPS glow is a NO GO for me that's in my option more annoying then the viewing angle on a TN-Panel
     
  22. stefanp67

    stefanp67 [H]Lite

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    I remember my old Sony Trinitron CPD-E250, perfect blackness, no input lag or response time lag. Very good colors out of the box with ntsc gamut (much larger gamut than sRGB) if i remember correctly. I remember dreaming of a Sony fw900 but never got around to get one. The old quality CRT's are still miles ahead of anything produced today.
     
  23. Outbreaker

    Outbreaker Limp Gawd

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    CRT and LCD is a good example of mainstream advertising brain washing.
     
  24. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    @stefanp67

    Thanks for those pics. The Samsung is tempting if they have in fact fixed the bleed problem somewhat in the newer ones. A couple of quick questions...

    How are the black levels when compared to other IPS panels, say the U2412? And it has a 6-bit panel, right? I may be wrong, but I think the 24"er is 6-bit, while the 27"er is 8-bit?

    And I agree that a good quality CRT monitor has many advantages. I am currently using a NEC FE2111. The problem is, they age... brightness dims, and the one I have is somewhat blurry. Colors and images still look quite nice on mine, but text is blurrier than I'd like. If I can find the right screwdriver I'm going to try to adjust the pots on this thing, and hopefully not electrocute myself. But I don't think I'll ever get it as sharp as I'd like.

    For general images, how do you feel the Samsung is compared to a CRT? I realize blacks won't be as black, but for colors and sharpness, are they at least comparable?

    When I had a U2412, I found the image was... eh, okay. The grainy coating sort of dulled most colors, and of course light colors. I found black generally terrible, as they are with all IPS screens. I guess I'm wondering how the Samsung PLS compares to the U2412 overall -- I know there is no thick coating in the Samsung, but does that result in much nicer images too?
     
  25. stefanp67

    stefanp67 [H]Lite

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    Yes the S24A850DW is a 6-bit panel, if you want 8-bit you have to get the 27" S27A850T (which so far has been reported to be blb free). My S24S850DW has a blacklevel of 0.22 and contrast of 550 when measured with my Spyder 4 but i suspect that if i measure the black level and contrast with a professional colorimeter the values could be better. Reviews for the S24 and S27 mention a contrast of 700-800.

    I haven't used a CRT since late 2004 when my Sony CPD-E250 stopped working so i can't really compare them with any higher confidence anymore. One thing i do remember is that i had a really hard time adjusting my eyes to my first LCD display (Samsung 730BF). In the beginning i got tired, got headaches and text looked blurry but slowly during the first week it got better and better suddenly almost without realizing it the LCD looked good. So when you do change to a LCD be ready for few days to up to a week before your eyes and brain have adjusted to the new type of display.

    I did have a U2312HM before and if i compare the U2312HM to the S24A850DW i would say the Dell looked ok from a distance but close up i just could not stand the grainy AG and flickering backlight. The Samsung is like a summer breeze to my eyes, images and text look clear and crisp even when sitting close to it.
     
  26. Outbreaker

    Outbreaker Limp Gawd

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    Sure Monitors without coating look a lot better that's way all TV Displays have no coating.
    They should remove this crap coating for the Monitors office people that want this should buy a anti-glare to put over there display like it was done with the CRT's
     
  27. stefanp67

    stefanp67 [H]Lite

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    When Samsung get the blb issues permanently solved i see no reason to even consider a grainy LG IPS panel anymore unless you work with wide gamut images.
    Samsung PLS ftw :D.
     
  28. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    @ stefanp67

    Thanks for the info.

    I have noticed it takes a while for one's eyes to get used to the switch to an LCD. At first I assumed it was completely due to simply the change from CRT to LCD. And then I realized it was also due to the AG coating. One oddity I have noticed, at least for my eyeballs, is that I can adjust to LCD text quite well, if the LCD has no coating at all.

    I have a HP Touchpad (IPS glossy), and an Acer Netbook (junky TN, but glossy)... I can read text on them perfectly fine. Well, for the tablet it can be a pain, due to small text sometimes (increasing the size may blur it a bit). But oddly for the netbook, text is really easy to read (I have altered the dpi/browser options for larger text). Images stink on it, but I have no issues with text at all on it.

    My eyes never got used to text on a standard TN panel with regular AG coating though. I guess that's another reason why I found the IPS AG coating so bothersome. It was like standard AG, magnified several times.

    So I wonder if some of the issues with changing from CRT to LCD has little to do with panel types, and simply the AG coating used.

    @Outbreaker

    I agree entirely. When I started looking into getting an LCD recently, I was amazed how few (or none, besides Apple) of the higher end monitors were glossy. You'd think there would be some variety available. My Sony TV I guess would be considered semi-glossy, as you can see your reflection in it somewhat, but it's not all super shiny like glass. I think that is a good compromise.

    So I guess for my LCD 'potential purchase list'... I'll include the samsung PLS and ACD, for now. I do wonder how the PLS compares to the ACD 24, but I expect very few out there have used both. eBay prices for the ACD sort of range between $400-$600ish, while the PLS is around $450 (I think), so they are sort of in the same ballpark price-wise. I've also been considering looking for a used 21" VA, mostly because I like the 4:3 ratio, but they can be risky due to age, and the fact I have no idea what sort of coating they use.
     
  29. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    So the PLS blb problem is only fixed on the 27 not the 24? Is there a new 24 inch improved version without blb?
     
  30. stefanp67

    stefanp67 [H]Lite

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    I know that one person in a Swedish forum has reported that his S24A850DW bought last week has no blb. This could be a lucky exception or maybe Samsung did get their act together, if anyone want to give the S24A850DW a shot make sure you can return it if need be. Also make sure the brightness is set to around 27-28 (around 120-140 lux) before evaluating the blb.
     
  31. Outbreaker

    Outbreaker Limp Gawd

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    @Namelessme
    If you have $400-$600ish for a monitor then i would say put $200 on it and buy nice NeoPlasma 2500Hz (200Hz output) TV and you can watch all your Porn in all their glory.
     
  32. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    I have a plasma tv from panasonic (GT50) and it appears to flicker when using a web browser which makes it awful for text.
     
  33. aquablue

    aquablue n00bie

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    So, the 27inch PLS has no BLB?

    Also, how does the Samsung 650D pva compare, would that be a better buy?
     
  34. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    @Outbreaker

    I'm not aware of plasmas being used as regular monitors very often. Clear text is one problem, and based on that TV thread here, it can be tricky finding one that can display text properly.

    @aquablue

    The odds on the 27"er having BLB seems to be less than the 24" one. It's very rare to find people with the 24" version not having some level of BLB.

    Samsung is updating their 27" version. It's expensive, but it sure looks nice (tempered glass too) --
    http://www.samsung.com/us/article/the-samsung-series-9-sb970-monitor-premium-style-brilliant-display

    I hope they come out with a little brother to it, but I haven't read any plans of such. As for the 650D, the review on Prad was decent, but it didn't exactly wow me. The color coverage is a little low if I remember right, at about 85% sRGB.
     
  35. Cerulean

    Cerulean [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I have a Samsung SyncMaster 2443BW 24". It is wonderful, and has wonderful color. Non-glossy, 1920x1200. Also wonderful for Counter-Strike: Source.
     
  36. NCX

    NCX [H]ardness Supreme

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    The S24A850D is a rip off @ 450$ considering that the U2412 is 330$, has better QC and a better warranty.

    Go for the S24A650D, it uses the same semi-glossy coating, costs around 220$ and has CRT like black levels. Sure the viewing angles will not be as wide as the 850D, nor will be it as fast but it will be glow free and look much better, except from wide angles.

    Glossy 120hz TN's only come in 23 and 27" sizes and should only be purchased for heavy gaming.

    Samsung TN panels uses medium AG which is still pretty strong like the coating found on IPS

    If you an deal with the viewing angles the HP 2511x would be better for gaming than the S24A650D and is glossy.
     
  37. Outbreaker

    Outbreaker Limp Gawd

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    I didn't test one yet but i don't see why it should not display clear text. The only problem is see if you have a small room because the smales plasma you can get is 42" so you would then need at least sit 1 meter a from the plasma.

    Yes the S24A650D is a good Monitor i love the 3000:1 contrast ratio but the response time is 20ms a little bit to high i think, but i don't know if this 20ms has a big impact in games the 14ms IPS i had was oky for me in games.
    http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2012/test-samsung-s24a650d-led.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  38. Namelessme

    Namelessme [H]ard|Gawd

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    @NCX

    Where have you seen the S24A650D for $220? Cheapest I've seen is about $270 (+ possibly tax) from a somewhat unknown retailer. Or around $285+ from other companies.

    I agree that the 850D is overpriced, but it may be worth keeping an eye on for deals. If someone wants an IPS without coating, it's one of the few options out there, even if expensive. The U2412 may be better in QC, but if it's unusable due to coating, it doesn't matter.

    The concern I'd have over the 650 is the color coverage. It got an okay review, but it didn't strike me as that great a review -- sort of a decent monitor, but nothing special. At $200 or so, it could be worth it. At around $300, it seems overpriced.
     
  39. NCX

    NCX [H]ardness Supreme

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    The 650D is 220$ in Canada, I assumed it would be the same price in the states.

    I see the 86% colour space coverage is lacking on the 650D, like other LED back-lit displays it falls short but I doubt it will be an issue for the 99%.
     
  40. Outbreaker

    Outbreaker Limp Gawd

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