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Best 24"+ IPS?
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Godmachine
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Well everyone has there own opinion and some are quite fierce about it as well. I own the Dell U2410 and love it , it does however suffer from a tinting issue (not all of them do however) but for inputs and features its fantastic. The other downside to this monitor is its not so amazing contrast , but I don't find it bothersome at all. Its got around 14.4ms input latency in game mode so its great to game on as well. Also its the more expensive of these two at around $450 (however if you wait for a coupon you can get it as low as 375) another way to get it cheaper is to call Dell and just ask questions about it but say its a bit above your price range and they can do a discount that way.
HP ZR24w is another well liked monitor , its cheaper than the U2410 but lacks the same amount of inputs and tweaking. The downsides of it are scaling issues with 1920x1080 (it doesn't do it properly at all) and has pretty bad contrast (this again is subjective as some will say its good and others will point to figures where its shown to be poor). Its got a nice price and HP overs coupons often (but to be fair so does Dell) its $425.
If you don't mind 16:9 ratio and tiny bit smaller I would go for the Dell U2311H its quite a bit cheaper (with a coupon around 260) and it has much better contrast than the first 2. But just a suggestion.
HP ZR24w is another well liked monitor , its cheaper than the U2410 but lacks the same amount of inputs and tweaking. The downsides of it are scaling issues with 1920x1080 (it doesn't do it properly at all) and has pretty bad contrast (this again is subjective as some will say its good and others will point to figures where its shown to be poor). Its got a nice price and HP overs coupons often (but to be fair so does Dell) its $425.
If you don't mind 16:9 ratio and tiny bit smaller I would go for the Dell U2311H its quite a bit cheaper (with a coupon around 260) and it has much better contrast than the first 2. But just a suggestion.
Peteman100
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HP ZR24w, Dell U2410, Dell U2711, Apple Cinema Display... depending on which features you're looking for
jonneymendoza
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the first two suffer huge tinting issues. avoid
Godmachine
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Incorrect. They don't suffer "huge" tinting issues , tinting issues have been reported but many users don't have any tinting problems to report.
Get the facts straight.
falconman515
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I'm looking to buy one of these this week Raid... its the white glow a real problem for you and what exactly does it look like and how does it affect the picture. I've got a deal lined up for 1 for $250 with shipping and am really looking forward to a new IPS panel since my Dell 2407 took a dump on me a couple of weeks ago.
Well the white glow is definitely noticable (especially on very dark images) but I have kinda forgotten about it by now, I don't think about it unless it's basically something pitchblack I am looking at. I don't find it as a problem though and even with the white glow the monitor is MILES better then my old TN monitor.
Basically the closer you sit to the screen the worse it gets, also the corners are usually worst (basically whatever is off-center of your point of view, for some reason the lower left corner seems to be the worst) but the further away you sit the less visible the white glow becomes. It looks like the screen has an "aura" on the outside of the picture where it's a little more white then in the center, you can see an extreme version of this on this image: http://img43.imageshack.us/i/img2832lz.jpg/ (got that image from the ZR24w thread here, that's where you should go for super detailed information on it)
Basically the closer you sit to the screen the worse it gets, also the corners are usually worst (basically whatever is off-center of your point of view, for some reason the lower left corner seems to be the worst) but the further away you sit the less visible the white glow becomes. It looks like the screen has an "aura" on the outside of the picture where it's a little more white then in the center, you can see an extreme version of this on this image: http://img43.imageshack.us/i/img2832lz.jpg/ (got that image from the ZR24w thread here, that's where you should go for super detailed information on it)
I have ZR24Ws and no tinting. White glow is there but not it is not horrible; both of my old TNs lit the room when with a black screen. White glow is worse in the corners like stated above and only gets noticeable when looking at the screen from an angle. Mine is not as bad as in the picture above. Also the AG on the ZR24Ws is not noticeable to me.
Yeah that picture is taking it to extreme, it is not That noticable in real life but you are obviously going to notice it if you are thinking about it, took me a few days then I had completely forgotten about it. Tbh I have seen Very few mention tinting issues on the zr24w so I don't really know where you got that from (the earlier versions of the u2410 had Very bad tinting issues, but that got fixed in a new revision I think?)
Godmachine
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White glow is something to consider before you buy one. Some people are really bothered by it ( I'm not at all) to me its just part of it. If you can find one locally to go look at you may want to consider that before you drop some bones on it.
jonneymendoza
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no your incorrect. OP go and read the official threads here about those monitors. 9/10 people complained about tinting issues. some even on their 2/3rd monitor.
read the threads
falconman515
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I'm spending $300 on the HP ZR24W so I am not looking for earth shaterring Apple Kinda display here at that price! for 300 bucks I know I am getting a damn good panel that FAR exceeds a TN for about 100 more.
Most all panels have tinting issues unless you want a way high priced highly calibrated monitor. And the bit of glow... Man lets not get picky if you want a 24" IPS panel then really for brand new one at $408 on Amazon it will never be beat!
Most all panels have tinting issues unless you want a way high priced highly calibrated monitor. And the bit of glow... Man lets not get picky if you want a 24" IPS panel then really for brand new one at $408 on Amazon it will never be beat!
silent-circuit
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Earlier revisions of the ZR24w had serious and common tinting issues, but it seems to have been resolved in more recent revisions.
jonneymendoza
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fact is these ips monitors have more issues than normal TN panels and more double the price. im not saying ALL have issues but all im saying that DONT be surprised if you do get one with tinting issues.
falconman515
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TN panels are FAR from normal, an IPS panel could be the worst panel made (which its not) and it would still blow ANY TN panel out of the water. The fact that a TN panel is even in the same sentence as an IPS means you are a TN panel kinda guy and are trying to fight for the cheap route!
Anyone who knows monitors knows the differences in a TN panel vs. an IPS so I'm not gonna try and justify my comments.
Every panel has their issues ... yes.... but no matter what not a tn made touches and ips in Any realm whatsoever.
jonneymendoza
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You dont know fuck all about me. i have been using IPS panel monitors for over 5 years. maybe longer than you so get your facts straight before splirtting bullshing at me.
unlike you i am not a fanboy and i tell it how i see it and how i see it is that their is not a single 24inch ips panel monitor that is reliable enough to warrent the price tag,
my current 22inch ips panel made by dell was one of the FIRST ips 22inch panel monitors you can buy. infact it was the only 22inch monitor of any kind out their. thats how old school i been rocking 22inch IPS panel monitors mate.
i aint trying to fight for the cheap route, im trying to tell the OP to beware that their is a great possibility that he will be flushing away £400 down the toilet.
i was about to pull the trigger on that dell 24inch ips panel but nearly all forums and reviews i go to complain about tinting issues. i may get lucky and get one with no issues but i am not prepared to gamble on £400 of my hard earned cash. OP may have the balls to do it but not me
Ehrr... wouldn't anybody recommend either NEC or EIZO? Are they really that bad for movies/games/etc? I've been looking for a good image quality monitor for about seven hours today. Avoiding DELL and HP (I'm sorry, but after suffering the tinting on a DELL u2311 I'm not going to take these two in count) and all I've been able to find for less than $800 are EIZO EV2333 and EIZO Foris FS2331. These ain't either 24'' nor IPS, but 23'' S-PVA which I don't think is really worse.
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AsAnAtheist
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Tinting was resolved in later revisions of the panels, that includes the U2410 as well. Right now the only issues left behind is the IPS white glow found on my most IPS screens, even then reports claim it to be negligible.
Here's from a more reliable source: He acknowledges the problems with tinting, however notices it's not plaguing his monitor. Likely newer revisions.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2410.htm
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_zr24w.htm
All LCD's have their individual problems, you should know that by now. tsk tsk years of IPS use and none the wiser.
Sir I would like you to please calm down as I have important things to say.
For all those years you've spent with IPS panels, you are none the wiser. That is the only factual information I have been able to come up in regards to your posts in this thread.
He can flush £400 but thats why there's RMA's. Even then if he went the cheaper route he'd be wasting however much the TN panel is worth.
jonneymendoza
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well thats good to see that tinting has been resolved but sorry RMA is not the answer to everything. its a hassle RMA'ing certain things and 9/10 when they cant fix your product, they send you a fucking refurb that will break within weeks again instead of replacing it with a brand new one and then the cycle continues. Look and read many threads on people on their4th YES 4th monitor due to dell sending them refurb after refurb after refurb. yup RMA is the savior. £400 of sending a product back and forth sounds fun
If you can find a refurb or good used NEC 2490Uxi.. That would be the best IMO.
I bought mine new about 2 years ago and there isn't a monitor on the market today that I would take in trade for it.
falconman515
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Enjoy your [H]ardForums Break after that reply buddy!
Halloween
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I like this post
, fair play to you fella. IPS panels are great but the man is right there have been issues so no harm letting the OP know.No doubt there have been issues but not even close to 9/10 (well maybe for the early u2410 monitors?) that he is saying, Just because some people have gotten unlucky (or is EXTREMELY PICKY) and is on their 4:th monitor doesn't mean he has a 9/10 chance of getting a bad monitor (you realize that there is ALWAYS a chance of getting a bad product, regardless of what you are buying?)
You gotta remember that this forum is for the extreme people, people that are super picky.. so for every post you have here you probably have hundreds of people that don't use this forum and are happy with thieir monitor... And there have been plenty of people here as well that are happy with their ZR24w (and the new revision of u2410 as well) so your 9/10 is just pulled out of thin air..
You gotta remember that this forum is for the extreme people, people that are super picky.. so for every post you have here you probably have hundreds of people that don't use this forum and are happy with thieir monitor... And there have been plenty of people here as well that are happy with their ZR24w (and the new revision of u2410 as well) so your 9/10 is just pulled out of thin air..
Godmachine
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Right , 9/10
in a thread with a ton of posts about all kinds of varying issues. This isn't a dental statistic dude. People have problems with monitors and make official threads , every thread for nearly any kind of monitor has users with problems. Do you even own either monitor? Didn't think so. Just because some users have issues doesn't mean anyone who posts in that thread do.
Godmachine
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Sony (who was the prime OLED developer currently) just sold its entire OLED factory off to Toshiba to make LCD-LED panels.
OLED is all but completely dead now for anything larger than cell phone displays.
We'll be lucky to see large panel OLEDs in the next 5-10 years maybe more.
AsAnAtheist
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Yup I predict at least a decade before implementation. Perhaps decades before OLED's replace LCD's.
jonneymendoza
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Right , 9/10
Do you even own either monitor? Didn't think so. Just because some users have issues doesn't mean anyone who posts in that thread do.
kind of reminds me of the same shit people like u say about the failure rate of the xbox 360. Look how reliable that crap is. I know every product can fail but go dig out loads of different 480gtx and count the amount of people whos cards have failed or go to the ATI boards and do the same.
point is. they dont fail as MUCH as these ips panels.
AsAnAtheist
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Once again most of the problems have been fixed, resolved ,corrected, done right by the customer, revised, how many ways do I need to put it.
You say RMA'ing is a hassle, too bad for you that you can't handle a phone call or an email. If you can't want a few weeks for a new revision your just plain sad.
Even with all of the IPS's problems any Tn panel will have it much worse, at least with IPS panels the issues are fixed within a revision or two. Backlight bleeding=present on every single TN panel of the dozens I've had. Uniformity issues? All. Tinting? Most. Viewing angles? All. Saturation/undersaturation? All. Ergonomics? Fail on at least 80% of them. Build quality? Passable to horrible for most.
Also stop bringing in individual conditions as arguements. RMA'ing has been a hassle for me but not enough to impact a sale.
LG's 15EL9500 is available right now though. Okay, it's 15" and 720p, but it shows OLED isn't exactly dead in the water.
They seem to be promoting that model as a "toilet TV" from the brochures, with larger models to come for elsewhere in the home.
Yeah, $2000 novelty OLEDs exist. But while we might have an OLED monitor by 2015, that has little bearing on providing the best IPS screen for the original poster today.
Godmachine
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Exactly. There are always novelty items for new technology. OLED for all intents and purposes of the computer user is dead. You won't see anything for awhile and if you do it'll cost far far more than a regular monitor with weak specs to boot.
I believe I've seen you write that before...
What do you know that the rest of us don't?
Burn in?
Seriously, the risk can be minimized by certain measures like having the screensaver go off in just a minute or two, move the OS' taskbar to another side, auto-hide it etc etc.
Blue aging faster?
Well, I don't really know how it works, but many monitors start out with 50/50/50 values for RGB. Just increase the intensity of blue a bit after a couple of months.
Why are you discussing steps to protect a screen you can't buy?
That is entirely untrue. Please stop spreading misinformation.
The tint issue relates to imperfect colour uniformity on IPS panels produced at LG's factory. During production / assembly certain areas of the screen may produce too much red, green, or blue. This pattern often runs diagonally, but can also run top to bottom or left to right, and may be present on one or both sides of the screen.
ALL IPS panels suffer these uniformity issues to some degree. However most IPS panels are used on TV's were backgrounds are constantly moving and changing. By contrast PC users regularly view uniform background colours (such as with web pages or word processors etc). This makes any uniformity issues much more of a distraction to some users. The reason it's reported more often on screens like the U2410 is probably down to the back light on the U2410 which produces a very wide colour gamut. Whilst the back light boosts the RGB gamut, it will also boosts the gamut of any flaws which were present on the panel, making them more visible. Likewise viewing angle and screen coating may play some small part in emphasizing the issue.
There are only 3 fixes for this problem:
1) LG could perfect their panel making process to prevent the issue. Unlikely, but not impossible. However this would probably come in a new generation of panels even if it were the case.
2) Companies can pay LG to perform stricter QC on the panels, and reject panels above a certain percentage of colour gradation. Since this would significantly increase the production costs of screens most companies are unwilling to do this.
3) Companies can introduce their own corrective controls to compensate for the flaws in the panel production process. This is what Eizo and NEC do with some of their screens. Given a large enough volume of screens this wouldn't be too hard for a company like Dell to do if they really wanted to.
Neither Revision A01 nor A02 screens contain anything like any of the above. Thus the problem will still be present.
Users concerned about this issue, and who are not prepared to pay the large premium for a screen with corrective controls, can stick to a non-wide gamut screen. Whilst this won't solve the issues it should make problems less noticeable. If Dell aren't prepared to introduce corrective controls on their screens then I would urge them to stick to a standard gamut on their next IPS screens in order to minimize this issue. It really is quite nasty on some screens.
As for how many screens have this problem - It's a significant enough percentage that Dell refuse to swap for the issue. Many users won't notice it. But most users don't notice the difference between an IPS and TN panel either, unless you point out the differences. Does that mean everyone should use TN panels? No. Likewise that means users shouldn't have to accept issues like tint either, particularly if they're paying a price premium for the screen over cheaper alternatives like TN.
The review was done on an A00 screen when they first appeared. Btw the same review also completely failed to notice the grainy black problems with Adobe/sRGB mode on A00 too, which A01 fixed. Not all U2410's have tint issues, and they make an excellent screen when they are free of the problem. It's the only major caveat about buying the U2410. There are some minor ones, the main one being the current Custom mode is also kinda broken, as it has a gamma curve close to 1.8 and cannot be properly calibrated due to limitations in this mode. Other modes (outside Adobe/sRGB which use the onboard LUT) are also affected to varying degrees too. It would be a nice move on Dell's part if they were to make some sort of deal with a 3rd party to give someones calibration utility access to the LUT data so users can manipulate it to calibrate their screen as nicely as the included Adobe/sRGB modes.
That's true. But new technologies also introduce new challenges. Very wide gamut devices, like the U2410, have introduced a new challenge, which is they must produce better colour uniformity than non-wide gamut devices, because the gamut will make any flaws more visible.
Once again, unless you have some sort of evidence for some sort of real fix (which I outlined above, and which I would personally be very happy about) please stop spreading more misinformation on this topic.
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