Ballmer: The Whole Screen Is A Start Button

In all honesty, I'm just sort of shocked after the whole "windows 7 was my idea" concept and how well that worked for them, that they wouldn't just include both gui's in the OS. I don't see how that is a losing proposition to anyone involved, the tablet/touchscreen functionality is still fully built in, and can be utilized on the desktop if you so choose, then include an updated win7 style desktop for those who don't want it, and just have it detect touchscreen during install to see which will default as on.
 
shspvr said:
One screen ever thing in one place just a click away no switch from Metro to old screen UI.
Run, Notepod, Wordpad, Paint things Menu option like save file, open file option, sent to things like that.
Windows 8 Metro apps don't have much in way any option control and apps don't close when exit it you have go top rigth hand side to kill it.
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WOW seems like you need to use windows 8 more than 5 minutes there. You can close a metro app by going to the left side :eek: or click and drag it to the bottom of the screen. :rolleyes:

I'm embarrassed :eek: that some of you are admins or IT guys. Adaptability is suppose to be a hallmark of IT guys, but it's not something to be taught. The whining isn't [H] and it is even more pathetic than what was heard from 3.1 to 95.
Why don't stuff get done in the world today it's because people are stubborn, idiotic, lazy, and whine about any change that disrupts their so called universe. But what these people don't realize the world keeps moving and doesn't care about your complaints.

Without change and innovation where does the desktop go?Anyone? Without potholes in the road when do you repave, lay new culverts, put in better drainage, and chose to make new routes to get to where you want to go. Do you keep getting stuck in traffic or do you chose a new route. Do you keep doing the same thing until it's to late to make changes.

Its a reason why the military has a school called lessons learned and a reason Microsoft after so many years decided to stop going straight like most of you want and decided it's time to take the exit ramp and go someplace new.
 
marcusj3000 said:
WOW seems like you need to use windows 8 more than 5 minutes there. You can close a metro app by going to the left side :eek: or click and drag it to the bottom of the screen. :rolleyes:

I'm embarrassed :eek: that some of you are admins or IT guys. Adaptability is suppose to be a hallmark of IT guys, but it's not something to be taught. The whining isn't [H] and it is even more pathetic than what was heard from 3.1 to 95.
Why don't stuff get done in the world today it's because people are stubborn, idiotic, lazy, and whine about any change that disrupts their so called universe. But what these people don't realize the world keeps moving and doesn't care about your complaints.

Without change and innovation where does the desktop go?Anyone? Without potholes in the road when do you repave, lay new culverts, put in better drainage, and chose to make new routes to get to where you want to go. Do you keep getting stuck in traffic or do you chose a new route. Do you keep doing the same thing until it's to late to make changes.

Its a reason why the military has a school called lessons learned and a reason Microsoft after so many years decided to stop going straight like most of you want and decided it's time to take the exit ramp and go someplace new.
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WTF would you know about being an IT guy, before making asinine statements maybe you should walk a mile in my shoes. IT guys have a very stressful job, usually taking care of 100's or 1000's of users and then not to mention servers. Its not that we don't like to learn its just we don't want a bigger workload. Contrary to popular belief IT departments are seldomly used for training, its the users responsibility to train them selves on their own or company CBT's. Unfortunately most people are to lazy and they still depend IT department to wipe their ass.
 
ekuest said:
you mean red, yellow, blue, purple, orange, and green? those are the primary and secondary colors. i guess you could have a black, white, and brown interface if that suited you better but you'd have to be an idiot.
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Never claimed I didn't belong in a strait jacket. :D

I click start (after finding the windows "G-spot" in the upper corner), and I get alot of different shaped\colored buttons that launch my apps. Nothing is perfect, and I will learn this if it ends up being something I support. Perhaps it's not targetted at me, but I think it looks silly.
 
Wrench00 said:
WTF would you know about being an IT guy, before making asinine statements maybe you should walk a mile in my shoes. IT guys have a very stressful job, usually taking care of 100's or 1000's of users and then not to mention servers. Its not that we don't like to learn its just we don't want a bigger workload. Contrary to popular belief IT departments are seldomly used for training, its the users responsibility to train them selves on their own or company CBT's. Unfortunately most people are to lazy and they still depend IT department to wipe their ass.
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I took what he was saying that as IT folk, we're usually the ones on the bleeding edge. The ones people go to when they want to know about new and exciting things. We learn the newest stuff before other people do. Most of it is outside of work. Kind of like [H]. We're enthusiasts and out IT career doesn't end at 5PM. It's a hobby as well as a job. Unless you suffer from burnout, you've checked out Windows 8, new Linux kernels, new VMware software, etc.. That's the nature of the business. If you don't learn the new things coming down the pipe, you'll be left behind. But, with Windows 8 just hitting GA today, it's not too much to worry about. But, saying you're going to skip it, not learn it, etc., you're giving yourself a disadvantage. If your boss comes up and asks what you think about Windows 8 and how it will work with Server 2012 AD and new group policy options, would you be able to at least give a brief overview?
 
sethmo said:
I'm not sure how Windows 8 is going to work in a production/office environment, but half of my users don't know how to find a program in the start menu anyway lol.
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Actually in the office environment the biggest hurdle is forcing users to use tabs in IE, my users are completely confused by tabs, they have to have every single open page listed on task bar or they loose their shit. I'm not sure how well the whole "with windows 8 there is no need to shutdown" play will work with users. The majority of users I support also like to keep every inch of desktop covered with office documents and lack the ability to organize a document directory.

But if you put in your mind set the taskbar is on the left and the start menu is your desktop Windows 8 is easy to navigate. I'm just having a hard time letting go of using run commands:(
 
Ur_Mom said:
I took what he was saying that as IT folk, we're usually the ones on the bleeding edge. The ones people go to when they want to know about new and exciting things. We learn the newest stuff before other people do. Most of it is outside of work. Kind of like [H]. We're enthusiasts and out IT career doesn't end at 5PM. It's a hobby as well as a job. Unless you suffer from burnout, you've checked out Windows 8, new Linux kernels, new VMware software, etc.. That's the nature of the business. If you don't learn the new things coming down the pipe, you'll be left behind. But, with Windows 8 just hitting GA today, it's not too much to worry about. But, saying you're going to skip it, not learn it, etc., you're giving yourself a disadvantage. If your boss comes up and asks what you think about Windows 8 and how it will work with Server 2012 AD and new group policy options, would you be able to at least give a brief overview?
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I have no problems with learning, I just don't want to be teaching, because the average user will not be inclined to train themselves. All this fan-dangled bullshit from MS and they had no tutorial no nothing. Most IT admins are over worked and overstressed, and 70% of them still use 2003 techniques to get stuff done.

Also where the fuck did you get that I was going to skip it? I already have a 2012 servers in production.

MS has been fucking up shit lately and I will voice my opinions. First they killed SBS Standard and Premium, then they release the shitastic Essentials server, then they increased the prices for their certifications tests. Now they are pushing their fucking cloud into my corner of business and screwing tons of SBS customers as well as trying to take business away from me. You expect me to praise them for what I view a shitastic Metro UI and stupid shit that I will need to disable with GPO's that they only included in 2012 which is bs since 2008 has had a admx repository that should be agnostic of the server version. So yes I am unhappy and yes I don't like Windows 8. Only saving grace is that server you can disable metro.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
What is it about some people that they can't understand that these mewlings do nothing whatsoever to advance their case? It beggars belief how feeble the anti-Windows 8 arguments are; their proponents seeming to think that shrillness is a substitute for logic.

Is critical thinking and the ability to make a cogent argument really in such short supply these days?

Tell us, michael.pa2 how, exactly, does Windows 8 turn your "honest to god" computer into a "tiny, underpowered phone or tablet?" Windows 8 works perfectly well with a keyboard and mouse. Please explain to us how this means it was not developed for PCs?
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How long have you worked for Microsoft? That's the only thing that can account for your ignoring the valid reasons given here and other forums and sites why people don't like this OS. Logic was completely absent when they developed it,they discarded the things that made 7 such a success.
 
Wrench00 said:
I have no problems with learning, I just don't want to be teaching, because the average user will not be inclined to train themselves. All this fan-dangled bullshit from MS and they had no tutorial no nothing. Most IT admins are over worked and overstressed, and 70% of them still use 2003 techniques to get stuff done.

Also where the fuck did you get that I was going to skip it? I already have a 2012 servers in production.
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You're an angry elf. :D

I didn't say you were going to skip it. It was a generalization of "someone" skipping, not learning, forgetting about, not using, not gaining any knowledge of, etc.. the product.

I don't think most IT folk are in the job of teaching people how to use it. That's up to the end user. If they need to take a class, so be it. But, IT is there to support the software, not educate the end user. A user should have the capability to learn and/or have the necessary skills. They are hired because they know the basics of the job and the tools of the job (i.e. basic computer/Windows skills).
 
Joshua said:
Actually in the office environment the biggest hurdle is forcing users to use tabs in IE, my users are completely confused by tabs, they have to have every single open page listed on task bar or they loose their shit. I'm not sure how well the whole "with windows 8 there is no need to shutdown" play will work with users. The majority of users I support also like to keep every inch of desktop covered with office documents and lack the ability to organize a document directory.

But if you put in your mind set the taskbar is on the left and the start menu is your desktop Windows 8 is easy to navigate. I'm just having a hard time letting go of using run commands:(
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Whats wrong with run commands?

win key + r still works just fine.

Source: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/zxue/archive/2012/03/07/win8-howto-12-show-and-use-run-command.aspx
 
This thread is pretty amazing. Im a windows sys admin myself and I did helpdesk work in my younger years. Lots of people hate change and fear everything. Id just like for half of the people that are writing this shit to actually try the os for a few days. Most people just saw some end of the world article and just are repeating the same things over and over.
 
GaryJohnson said:
They discarded DirectX and volume licensing?
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Yup. Linux is getting Steam, but Microsoft is giving up all gaming and ditching DirectX. Moving all their gaming resources to the Xbox.

Volume licensing is going away, too. Microsoft figured it was too easy. Single licensing is the way to go. Better make sure you have a good secure place to store all your COA's and which PC's they belong to.
 
I just dont see many business adopting Win 8 and I do see MS putting in boot to desktop and start button for business settings.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Yup. Linux is getting Steam, but Microsoft is giving up all gaming and ditching DirectX. Moving all their gaming resources to the Xbox.

Volume licensing is going away, too. Microsoft figured it was too easy. Single licensing is the way to go. Better make sure you have a good secure place to store all your COA's and which PC's they belong to.
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ughh what? Please continue to just make stuff up.
 
Ur_Mom said:
You overestimate the majority of customers. They want simple, easy to use devices. Idiocricy style. Yes, that is the direction things are going. Us power users are less than 5% (probably a lot less) of the total. They aren't making these things for us. They are making them for the audience of Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore.
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Honey Boo Boo, you want some sketty?:D
 
I'm all for a learning or change as some put it when the change brings about an improvement in user experience and/or productivity. Now someone please explain to me how Windows 8 does that over Windows 7?
 
To me, the start screen is just a big start menu. Ohh, it eats up more screen space. Because you're busy simulatneously navigating the start menu while doing something else with your screen space?

How much different, really, is the new start screen from this:

start_menu_tweak-42499-1230280529.jpeg


or this

vistastartmenu.jpg


The location of shutdown/restart? Now that's ridiculous. The cludging together of the standard windows desktop onto Windows RT, and having desktop win7 start on it? That's questionable too.

But the start screen itself? No problems here.
 
Wrench00 said:
WTF would you know about being an IT guy, before making asinine statements maybe you should walk a mile in my shoes. IT guys have a very stressful job, usually taking care of 100's or 1000's of users and then not to mention servers. Its not that we don't like to learn its just we don't want a bigger workload. Contrary to popular belief IT departments are seldomly used for training, its the users responsibility to train them selves on their own or company CBT's. Unfortunately most people are to lazy and they still depend IT department to wipe their ass.
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And this is why IT department personnel have such a bad name in some places. I'm a IT guy as well and seen many like you that have the IT god complex and have no social skills outside of the IT department. IT is not stressful when you know how to handle it. If users coming to you asking question being hand held is a problem you are in the wrong line of work. The IT department I help ran did hold classes and training which in turn lighten our load. What a smart ideal we came up with on that. :eek: Not everyday did crap break on the servers and computers that we didn't have time to test somethings, and walk around, do some preventive maintenance, and just chat with users.

Look at the way you describe your users as lazy and that you have to wipe there asses which is a typical IT guy thinking in some companies but not ours. Our users didn't stress me out so much that I became a bitter IT guy like you. I did it with grace and so much less stress than you guys do that I read on here. I have now passed on to the corporate management side which I came to find out is hard for most IT guys to do first hand and because of said attitudes which make it impossible for most.

If you can't find joy in your job, it just that a job. If you love you job then it is an adventure daily and a good career. If I had an IT guy say our users were lazy and you have to wipe their asses I will snap them back to reality real quick and make there life miserable. They will go take sometime off, come back with a better attitude or don't come back at all.
 
Of course someone in an IT job needs to be able to adapt. If they want to keep their job then they need to be able to deal with it. That does not however mean all things they need to adapt to are automatically better or an improvement. But if there is no choice in the matter there is no choice.

I'm not excited about 8 at all. I may end up with it eventually anyway. TBH the only thing I know I'll miss is Aero Glass. Aesthetics aren't that important to me but they do count for something. And Glass is actually pretty neat looking IMHO. Metro OTOH not so much.
 
xX326Xx said:
Steve Ballmer should wake up and realize there is no "start button" the whole damn screen he talks about is a start menu. The button that is missing in my honest opinion is where they failed. When you hit the invisible start menu thingy that is hidden on the bottom left, there is no option to shut down, which instead is magically hidden behind a menu you have to force out by stroking the right side of the screen. It is completely counter-intuitive from what people are familiar with.
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The shortcut turns out to be windows+i
 
havent used windows 8 yet, and already posted but i want to say another thing.

i hate the start menu. i have every program i use regularly either autolaunch with windows or in the quicklaunch for easy access. a few i use sparingly i keep pinned to the start menu so i dont have to go through 3 or 4 different submenus to get to them. if win8 means i never have to use the start menu again then HELL FUCKING YEAH. that sounds like an improvement in usability and productivity to me.

and for those of you who love mousing through submenu after submenu because you "have dozens of programs you have to get to all the time" then either use the start menu programs available, dont upgrade to win8, or stfu. you are a VERY small portion of users and are disproportionately obnoxious.
 
marcusj3000 said:
And this is why IT department personnel have such a bad name in some places. I'm a IT guy as well and seen many like you that have the IT god complex and have no social skills outside of the IT department. IT is not stressful when you know how to handle it. If users coming to you asking question being hand held is a problem you are in the wrong line of work. The IT department I help ran did hold classes and training which in turn lighten our load. What a smart ideal we came up with on that. :eek: Not everyday did crap break on the servers and computers that we didn't have time to test somethings, and walk around, do some preventive maintenance, and just chat with users.

Look at the way you describe your users as lazy and that you have to wipe there asses which is a typical IT guy thinking in some companies but not ours. Our users didn't stress me out so much that I became a bitter IT guy like you. I did it with grace and so much less stress than you guys do that I read on here. I have now passed on to the corporate management side which I came to find out is hard for most IT guys to do first hand and because of said attitudes which make it impossible for most.

If you can't find joy in your job, it just that a job. If you love you job then it is an adventure daily and a good career. If I had an IT guy say our users were lazy and you have to wipe their asses I will snap them back to reality real quick and make there life miserable. They will go take sometime off, come back with a better attitude or don't come back at all.
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Whoopde fucking do for you. Its a bit different when you manage 35+ networks. Even I were to teach them most of them just to damn lazy or they will never remember. Its also easy if the company is a white color based business. You try to teach a oil field worker how to use a computer, yet they still need to have email on their phone or a netbook.
 
Ur_Mom said:
You overestimate the majority of customers. They want simple, easy to use devices. Idiocricy style. Yes, that is the direction things are going. Us power users are less than 5% (probably a lot less) of the total. They aren't making these things for us. They are making them for the audience of Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore.
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I wouldn't refer to yourself as a power user. In my line of work we call power users people who THINK they know their way around a PC but are completely clueless. The ones that ask for help but try to tell you what they believe needs to be done to fix an issue are are way off base. Maybe its used differently in other environments.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Really? You can't use Windows 8, so you go with a whole new OS because it's easier than to change the Start menu? Ok, that can't be the only reason. Yes, there are some things wrong with Windows 8. But, enlighten me: what is so bad about Windows 8 that makes you want to go to a completely different OS that you have to learn?
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OS X doesn't have a "start menu", at least not natively.
 
masterosok said:
I wouldn't refer to yourself as a power user. In my line of work we call power users people who THINK they know their way around a PC but are completely clueless. The ones that ask for help but try to tell you what they believe needs to be done to fix an issue are are way off base. Maybe its used differently in other environments.
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Ok, I'm a fuckin' awesome kick ass expert user. Just trying to be humble a bit, too!

To be honest, though: I feel like an idiot when I wander into some of the subforums here. I used to know a lot about video cards, but then you stop paying attention and go back and there is so much new stuff and different things that it kills you. So, kind of shows my point: you have to stay with it and keep up with the new stuff to stay an expert.
 
Windows 8 looks like a fantastic OS for touch devices.

It doesn't look like a great OS for a standard computer. It would work nicely on a desktop if you have multiple monitors, although you're eating up what was once a secondary desktop screen. I could see it being downright infuriating on a laptop.

One of Windows biggest strengths was freedom of choice. I should be able to boot into the desktop immediately if I wish, and I should have a start menu *in* desktop mode
 
Change has to happen. It sucks complete ass, I still get a hard on over Windows XP sometimes, but the past is the past, and Microsoft is a company and needs to compete. Do you know how silly they would look with Android for example, gaining on them in every area if they stuck with the old tried and true method of say, XP?

Give Windows 8 a chance.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Change has to happen. It sucks complete ass, I still get a hard on over Windows XP sometimes, but the past is the past, and Microsoft is a company and needs to compete. Do you know how silly they would look with Android for example, gaining on them in every area if they stuck with the old tried and true method of say, XP?
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What I think many Windows 8 opponents think is that there's this just all powerful desktop computing paradigm that will always be the end all of computing and that tablets can't touch it. But the reality from just about everyone that's looking at this from the consumer and enterprise space perspective tablets ARE displacing and disrupting the Windows desktop.

Tablets are the biggest threat EVER to Windows without question. People are constantly saying that Microsoft isn't listening, well yeah they do, but they also look at competition and for too many years I think Microsoft wasn't looking at the competition keenly enough. If some customers are screaming for one thing when the market is clearly moving in another direction, I see little benefit in pleasing customers that will lead to your demise if you do what they are asking. It's something that business big and small have to deal with all the time. The customer isn't always right.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
I don't get all the complaints that "a desktop is not a tablet." What does that have to do with anything? Who ever said it was? Sure, iOS or Android would probably suck on a desktop, but that's not the case with Windows 8 which works very well on a desktop. Microsoft's advertising may tout Windows 8 as being "touch first," but Microsoft also was very careful to make sure it's fully accessible with just a keyboard and mouse. Anyone who says otherwise is simply incorrect.
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Right, just because nobody at MS ever said "We're porting our cell phone OS to the desktop" that somehow means that isn't EXACTLY waht they're doing ?!!?

I don't have a touch screen for my desktop PC and, frankly, I don't WANT to be touching my monitor. If I want a tablet, I'll BUY a tablet.

There is nothing as simultaneously pathetic and arrogant as a company deciding they'll just tell you how the future is going to go.

Cellphone on desktop (aka Win8) is going to be an EPIC failure.
 
deadrody said:
Cellphone on desktop (aka Win8) is going to be an EPIC failure.
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Um, even I'm not for Windows 8, but that comment makes zero sense.
"Cellphone on a desktop", wtf...

It's an OS designed to run on both x86/ARM touch devices like tablets and standard desktops and laptops.
It has nothing to do with cellphone OSes... wtf are you smoking? :confused:
 
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