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Baffling problem... please help

M

marlinman

n00b
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
21
Our 'network' consists of two PCs running win7. One PC ('A') is attached to a (router-less) cable modem, the other ('B') makes use of this modem via 'internet connexion sharing'. The problem I'm having is that the 'B' PC is unable to load certain websites that the 'A' PC loads immediately, with e.g. IE8 displaying "Waiting for http://www.website.com/ ..." interminably. This behaviour does not change when the (Windows) firewall on 'A' is disabled. Nor does it change when I replace the 'B' PC with a laptop running Maverick - the same sites are unreachable! The OS on the 'A' PC was only recently installed and no changes to default settings (that I'm aware of) have been made. I really have no idea how to get to the bottom of this, and would appreciate any advice this site's gurus can offer!
 
I've never managed a setup like mentioned pc, maybe you have to hard code tcp/ip settings on both machines. Sounds like a dns issue maybe. Try setting dns servers to 4.4.2.2 or 8.8.8.8.

What a poor setup.

real world suggestion would be go to best buy and purchase a router. <$50 thats half of what a consultant charges an hour.
 
"Poor" is the operative word f1y - US$50 is more than one third of what this student gets by on each week.

I've tried different DNS servers but the problem remains. As far as hard coded settings go, the only IP address that fails to be static is that of the 'B' machine, which obtains its address automatically from 'A'.
 
I had a customer with the same problem and as f1y noted changing the setup fixed the issue. Once my customer bought a router all was good.
 
Can you run "netstat -rn" command and post the results from both pcs.

Sounds like slow dns lookup
 
Right, I've got the netstat info - does it contain anything I'd be foolish to release onto the interweb (given our security consists of the win7 firewall)?
 
marlinman said:
Right, I've got the netstat info - does it contain anything I'd be foolish to release onto the interweb (given our security consists of the win7 firewall)?
Click to expand...

only if you share c: ) LOL !!

Why can't you just buy a router ? for the 40$ they cost ?
 
Netstat -rn should just show internal IPs. Nothing that can be malicious.

Should be something like this:

===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.2 25
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.1.2 281
192.168.1.2 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.2 281
192.168.1.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.2 281
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 192.168.1.2 281
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.1.2 281
===========================================================================
 
The redaction team have just finished with the netstat output. Here's what's left (see bottom for 'legend') :rolleyes: . Also, IPv6 tables removed (can post if useful).

'A' PC:

===========================================================================
Interface List
12...00 05 5d 27 e8 d0 ......Realtek RTL8139/810x Family Fast Ethernet NIC
11...00 01 29 d5 f9 68 ......NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller
1...........................Software Loopback Interface 1
14...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
13...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter #2
15...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft 6to4 Adapter
16...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
===========================================================================

IPv4 Route Table
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 ******2***** ******1******* 276
****3*****.0 255.255.255.0 On-link ******1******* 276
******1******* 255.255.255.255 On-link ******1******* 276
****3*****.255 255.255.255.255 On-link ******1******* 276
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
192.168.137.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.137.1 266
192.168.137.1 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.137.1 266
192.168.137.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.137.1 266
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link ******1******* 276
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 192.168.137.1 266
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link ******1******* 276
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.137.1 266
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
Network Address Netmask Gateway Address Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 ******2***** Default
===========================================================================


***************************************************************************
***************************************************************************
***************************************************************************

'B' PC:

===========================================================================
Interface List
10...00 1a 4d 42 4b 52 ......Marvell Yukon 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller
1...........................Software Loopback Interface 1
11...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
13...00 00 00 00 00 00 00 e0 Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
===========================================================================

IPv4 Route Table
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.137.1 192.168.137.114 10
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
192.168.137.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.137.114 266
192.168.137.114 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.137.114 266
192.168.137.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.137.114 266
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 192.168.137.114 266
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.137.114 266
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
None



******1******* = ISP-supplied IP address
******2***** = ISP-supplied Gateway
****3***** = first 3 triplets of ISP-supplied Gateway
 
Last edited:
Those routing tables confused me!

Wish I had more knowledge of Internet connection sharing. A little bit of google searching turned up that iCS just sucks.

Try running an elevated command prompt, and this command

netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disable

Edit: on both machines.
 
Thanks for your patience f1y. autotuninglevel currently equals normal on 'B', so I'll give this a go just as soon as I can get the missus to restart 'A' ;)
 
Welcome to Windows ICS...it's quite slow. So many variables, the horsepower of the host machine also plays into it, type of NIC, and if anyone is using it at the time the client is.

I realize you're on a budget, but...what if you look around ebay for a cheap router? Or even on NewEgg, they have some very basic ones for as low as 25 bucks, and many models in the 30-40 dollar price range.
 
Right now it seems the going rate for a Linksys WRT54G or WRT54G2 on ebay is $25 including shipping. I personally would recommend going that route. Also check your local craigslist, last few WRT54G or WNR614 routers I saw were going for less then $15
 
to the op ( marlinman ) , i have a free wireless router the 54g linksys's that every one raves about if you want you pay the 15$ shipping from me to you, and it's yours :)


Dash.
 
You're all correct of course; the easiest solution involves throwing money I don't have at the problem. I must be very old fashioned though as I see this as an admission of defeat given that our setup has worked perfectly well for many years! However, with 2 laptops recently acquired the need for some wireless capable hardware is growing here, so we'll probably go this route(r) eventually.

@f1y: tried modding the autotuninglevel but it didn't help :-(

@dashpuppy: very good of you - but I think shipping to New Zealand might be a _little_ bit more costly ;)
 
marlinman said:
You're all correct of course; the easiest solution involves throwing money I don't have at the problem. I must be very old fashioned though as I see this as an admission of defeat given that our setup has worked perfectly well for many years! However, with 2 laptops recently acquired the need for some wireless capable hardware is growing here, so we'll probably go this route(r) eventually.

@f1y: tried modding the autotuninglevel but it didn't help :-(

@dashpuppy: very good of you - but I think shipping to New Zealand might be a _little_ bit more costly ;)
Click to expand...

If you pay the postage I'll ship it :)
 
Heh. I haven't tried ICS since XP.........but it worked perfectly THEN - every time.

I've got it! Downgrade to XP! LOL :)
 
OK so with a birthday coming up [and this thread gone pretty quiet =) ] I'm thinking of asking missus for a wireless-capable router. Our current setup consists of 2 desktops with gigabit ethernet, a laptop with gigabit ethernet and 150 Mbps Wi-Fi, and a gigabit (non-wireless) switch (not in use but could be useful[?]). We have a 15Mbps/2Mbps connexion to the 'net. The desktops are at opposite ends of the house, and we don't transfer large files between them very often, so it may make sense to forego 1Gbps connectivity and go completely wireless (assuming 1Gbps isn't yet achievable using an affordable wireless adapter). Would any old wireless router serve us well, or is there a n00b-trap that we could land in if not careful? I'm thinking we'll need a couple of wireless adapters for the desktops too won't we...

Edit: Oh... just saw the stickie LOL
 
Last edited:
Newegg currently has the ASUS RT-N10+ (which supports DD-WRT) for $25 shipped. Not sure if that's too helpful in NZ, but thought I'd mention it.

I don't consider getting a router an admission of defeat. ICS is really a cheap kludge to get by without a real router. It's been a few years since I've used it, but previously it was completely unconfigurable. As YeOldeStonecat said, its performance depends on the power of the ICS PC, and ICS will affect that PC as well. And as you mentioned with your comment about the firewall, you're also exposing one of the Windows PCs directly to the internet.

Buying a router is a cheap upgrade to a real solution. It won't randomly screw up when something in Windows breaks. It adds defense in depth, as you'll have a Linux-based system between the internet and your Windows PCs. It could even save you some power if you're leaving one PC on all the time so the other can have internet access.

I used NAT32 back before Windows had usable ICS. Again, it's been years since I've used it, but it's a more full-featured ICS and isn't so tightly integrated with Windows. The free version might help you out until you can afford a hardware NAT router.


As for upgrading your current setup, I'd stay wired if you can. It's not so much about the speed, but the simplicity. Assuming you have good cables, you pretty much plug it in and you're good to go. You don't have to worry about interference from microwaves and cordless phones, or poor signals because one of your walls was built with some odd material, or random strangers piggybacking onto your network. I think all the [H] folks would have wired Ethernet as their first choice, falling back to WiFi if they couldn't run cables for some reason. Since you've already got it cabled, the hard part is done. If you wanted Gigabit, you could simply plug both PCs into the switch and then uplink the switch to the router (whether or not the router had GbE ports). Especially if you have to buy WiFi cards for the PCs, I think it makes more sense to stay wired.
 
Thanks Bill. The ASUS doesn't appear to be available in NZ, and Newegg doesn't ship here, but I've 'put my request in' for one of the following models: Linksys WRT160N, Linksys E1000, Netgear WNR2000.

I'll leave the desktop cables alone but don't think I'll be able to resist using the laptop's WiFi antenna!

InvisiBill said:
If you wanted Gigabit, you could simply plug both PCs into the switch and then uplink the switch to the router (whether or not the router had GbE ports).
Click to expand...

Bit confused by this - are you saying it's better to use the switch even if the router has GbE ports?

Power savings - hadn't thought of that! And your point about defeat is very well made :)
 
marlinman said:
Bit confused by this - are you saying it's better to use the switch even if the router has GbE ports?
Click to expand...

No, if the router has enough GbE ports, just use those. However, if you already have a GbE switch, then you don't need to spend twice as much on a router just to get GbE. You could get a cheaper 100Mb router and just use your existing switch.
 
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