Backup Suggestions

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WasntMe

[H]ard|Gawd
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Oct 7, 2007
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I bought a 1TB NAS device to backup my software, music, pictures, etc. I ended up using this device as my primary storage unit so that multiple PCs could access it.

What's a good recommendation for a backup device/drive?

Should I go with an internal drive (thinking 2TB) for my existing PC? Or would another NAS/external drive work best?

Just want to ensure my backups are done on a regular basis and that the data is duplicated (from my existing NAS).

If a NAS device, do you have any recommendations? My existing NAS is very slow (Buffalo).
 
How many PC's do you have?
Are they all Windows PC's?
Do you have an Xbox360?
Do you have an old/spare computer?
What is your budget?
Will you be streaming music/video from the device?
Do you want expandability beyond 2tb?
 
[LYL]Homer;1035818261 said:
  1. How many PC's do you have?
  2. Are they all Windows PC's?
  3. Do you have an Xbox360?
  4. Do you have an old/spare computer?
  5. What is your budget?
  6. Will you be streaming music/video from the device?
  7. Do you want expandability beyond 2tb?
Click to expand...

  1. I have 3 PCs.
  2. All Windows (1 Win7, 2 XP) boxes.
  3. I have an XBOX360. Runs my Netflix/gaming.
  4. No spare PC at the moment.
  5. Budget is as cheap as I can go (lol yeah, figures, eh?). That's why I was just simply debating on adding a single internal HDD.
  6. I'd LOVE to stream audio/video from the device! I currently stream audio from the NAS for iTunes.
  7. Right now I can't see needing anything above 2TB (and the same for the foreseeable future)

I bought the NAS that I did mainly because of price to size ratio and for the addition of the print server which is being utilized to network a cheapo inkjet.
 
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Is the NAS a one drive unit, or does it hold two drives? The drive(s) in it could probably be replaced with a 2tb one.
 
When thinking about backups, here are the first questions you need to ask yourself:
  1. What kind of failures are you trying to recover from?
  2. How much data need to recover from such failures?
  3. How much do you plan to spend?
The first question is the most important. Are you trying to prevent data loss due to disk failures? Due to filesystem corruption? Due to theft (of your computer)? Due to malicious software (that wipes all your data)? Due to a natural disaster that destroys your computer room?

You can make a good backup plan only after you have thought deep and hard about why you want to need the backup plan in the first place.
 
[LYL]Homer;1035818666 said:
Is the NAS a one drive unit, or does it hold two drives? The drive(s) in it could probably be replaced with a 2tb one.
Click to expand...

It's a single drive NAS.

chklin said:
When thinking about backups, here are the first questions you need to ask yourself:
  1. What kind of failures are you trying to recover from?
  2. How much data need to recover from such failures?
  3. How much do you plan to spend?
The first question is the most important. Are you trying to prevent data loss due to disk failures? Due to filesystem corruption? Due to theft (of your computer)? Due to malicious software (that wipes all your data)? Due to a natural disaster that destroys your computer room?

You can make a good backup plan only after you have thought deep and hard about why you want to need the backup plan in the first place.
Click to expand...

I am backing up to prevent data loss due to disk failures and due to filesystem corruption. Right now it's only about 500GB, but since we invested in a HD camcorder and new camera, I am sure it will increase.

The cost is undetermined for me. I'd like to stay around $100 but if I have to, I will spend more (hopefully not more than $250).
 
If you're talking about your home videos, as in irreplaceable at any price, you really need proper offline backup. Not only hard drives is mainly what I'm getting at, and certainly not ones that are connected full time to your PC. You have better options, depending on how much you want to spend. There are too many things to go wrong with a hard drive to trust anything you cannot easily replace to them. Good quality optical media is one option, archival quality DVDs are a little pricey but not a bad option. Also, SD cards are reasonably priced, more durable as far as handling and transport goes but I would still trust the optical media a little more. If it was me, and I had precious memories at stake, I would invest a few hundred bucks in an LTO2 or 3 drive and put them on tape. 2 or 3 copies on tape in different locations and I feel pretty sure it will always be there. I did this with an LTO2 drive (200GB per tape) initially to archive my music CD collection, but since have done photo collections for a couple of friends as well. The multiple copies in multiple locations thing applies to using any offline backup solution. It doesn't matter what media it's on, flash, DVD tape or hard drive if it's destroyed or stolen. I think of all the options though, a hard drive is the least likely to work for you when you need it to, assuming proper storage and handling. Tape is still king in my opinion, if you really value the data it's the only way to go, we've been using magnetic tape to store computer data for a very long time now.

Dustin
 
WasntMe said:
I am backing up to prevent data loss due to disk failures and due to filesystem corruption. (snip)
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Thanks. Your answers to these questions help me understand what you really need.

Adding a new internal drive to your existing PC (to hold a copy of the data on your NAS) is cheap and sufficient to prevent data loss due to these two modes of failure. These days it should be easy to find a 1.5TB drive around $100.

Good luck!
 
A drive in a Windows box acting as a mirror of a low end NAS box is not in any way sufficient for archival of data that you cannot replace. Not even close, there are a number of ways that you could lose both copies of your valuable information. Fire and theft are the most obvious that come to mind but the possibilities are nearly endless in that scenario. Please consider carefully the true value of your data. Once again, this isn't movie rips that can just be reripped at will, these are your memories. Take care of them, it's really not that expensive.

Dustin
 
There really is no silver bullet for what you want to do. Every solution has advantages and disadvantages.

Backing up to optical media at first seems like the best solution because of how easy it is to make multiple copies and store them in multiple locations, but then you have to consider the caveats. First of all, it's very time consuming just to make the backups, then you have to verify that each and every disc burned properly with no errors. If something happened and you had to restore, you'd be at the machine for bloody ever copying the data from each and every disk. Also, if this data is very important, you'll need to test the integrity of each disc on a regular basis as the quality of optical media can degrade over time. There's nothing like having a drive die and then you go to restore the data and find out that half your DVD's have errors.

An internal drive isn't good for reasons already stated.

I wouldn't recommend tape at all considering your budget as tape is by far the most expensive option.

That being said, I'd suggest going for external hard drives. While they are still prone to mechanical failure, this factor is reduced by the fact that they won't be hooked up 24/7 like a normal drive, they're the cheapest option, and it's less time-consuming to backup, restore, and test using this method.
 
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Yeah I looked at tape after it was suggested and wow... kinda costly. I know money should be no option for memories but, well, it is. I'm not loaded. :)

Optical is totally out. Way too much behind doing all that.

Any suggestions for a good eternal (portable)?
 
Personally I use a 2 tiered backup system.

Tier 1 is stuff that gets backed up to Mozy - mostly personal photos, documents, financial stuff - about 100gb in total. (We have about 1.5tb of stuff I like to back up and all of it isn't practical for online backup like Mozy).

Tier 2 is larger directories of .NEF files (Nikon native DSLR format, we have thousands that are around 12mb each) from my wife's photography side business as well as all Tier 1 stuff. These get backed up on a series of 500gb 2.5" external USB drives. I like the 2.5" format because they require no power brick and feel 10x more portable than a 3.5" drive/power brick. I store them at my office in my locked cabinet as off-site back in case of fire/theft at home.

Also, all our photos are on my wife's system and then get copied to our WHS once she has processed them. And WHS makes regular backups of her entire system, so we even have multiple recovery options before I have to dig into Tier 1 or 2 stuff.

If it's important data/photos that you want to keep then I suggest treating that data with the value you place on it.
 
Forget LTO backup just for home.

Just get a 2TB external drive and copy everything over. I prefer Western Digital or Seagate. Try Synctoy or Robocopy to copy the files over.

And anything you really don't want to lose get a free Dropbox account or Mozy. I think both of those allow 2GB of free storage.
 
Yeah, if you're really worried, just get two external drives with sufficient capacity and store one in a fireproof safe in your house, and then another in a different location. This is the option with the lowest cost and least amount of hassle.
 
That's probably what I am going to do. I haven't found any portable drives with really good reviews. They all seem so mixed on reviews. Any recommendations?
 
Lord Nassirbannipal said:
Yeah, if you're really worried, just get two external drives with sufficient capacity and store one in a fireproof safe in your house, ...
Click to expand...
Warning: most fireproof safes are designed only to preserve paper documents. More specifically, they are designed only to keep the internal temperature below 451°F (so that paper in the safe will not catch on fire) and are insufficient to protect magnetic media (which include hard drives).

WasntMe said:
That's probably what I am going to do.
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I thought you are not concerned about natural disasters...
 
[LYL]Homer;1035825205 said:
I always just buy a WD or Seagate bare drive and a cheap enclosure.
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+1


Stay away from the already made externals, as its usually better to just get a regular HD and an enclosure. Reason being is if the logic board/controller on the enclosure dies you can still remove the disk to access it. Be forewarned, I have some Thermaltake brand ( they all look very similiar) and they are passively cooled. While thats not an issue if I just wanna flip it on, make a backup then turn it off, it may be if you leave it on all th time. Just make sure you dont fry your disks.



Something else you can do thats free ( as long as you dont believe time = money) is to archive them in rar format or some other method and email them to yourself. I have about 50 pictures that are absolutely irreplaceable and I archived them, and then sent them to myself from my Gmail account to my Yahoo account on top of backing them up other ways.
 
That is what I wanted to do, minus the fireproof safe. I can leave one locked up in my cubical at work.
 
jay2472000 said:
Something else you can do thats free ( as long as you dont believe time = money) is to archive them in rar format or some other method and email them to yourself. I have about 50 pictures that are absolutely irreplaceable and I archived them, and then sent them to myself from my Gmail account to my Yahoo account on top of backing them up other ways.
Click to expand...

I have done that as well with some of my more valuable items. Some of my pictures (newborn, wedding, etc) are stored in email. Very good option for a few MBs.
 
chklin said:
Warning: most fireproof safes are designed only to preserve paper documents. More specifically, they are designed only to keep the internal temperature below 451°F (so that paper in the safe will not catch on fire) and are insufficient to protect magnetic media (which include hard drives).
Click to expand...

This is not really true. A fireproof safe cannot be "designed only to preserve paper". A fireproof safe is made of materials that can withstand high temperatures, and it has good thermal insulation in its walls, and usually a high thermal mass inside the thermal insulation (also, they are often waterproof as well). That way, the heat from outside takes longer to flow into the safe, and the high thermal mass inside takes longer to heat up. But given enough time, the interior of the safe will eventually reach the same temperature as the exterior.

The important question is how long a fireproof safe can keep the interior below a certain temperature given that the exterior temperature is held at a certain high temperature typical of a fire. That is the spec that you need to look at. However, depending on the safe, the spec may be difficult to apply to magnetic media, since as you say, paper can withstand higher temperatures than magnetic media.

You might see a spec that says that the interior will stay below 300F for 2 hours given a 1200F exterior temperature. But for magetic media, you would prefer to know how long the temperature would stay below, say, 100F. It would be less than 2 hours obviously, but it may not be in the spec. Still, the safe would provide some protection from a fire, as long as the fire is either not too long, or not too hot around the safe.
 
john4200 said:
This is not really true. A fireproof safe cannot be "designed only to preserve paper".
Click to expand...
Of course it can. The phrase "designed only to" is a remark on the intention of the designers, not the capabilities of the design. If I design a fireproof safe with preserving paper documents as the only design goal, then the safe is designed only to preserve paper. It may also happen to preserve other things, but that is not what the safe is designed to do.

Other than those two sentences, I think we are pretty much in agreement. In a fire, a common fireproof safe designed only to preserve paper (like the ones you see in Costco) may offer more protection to a hard drive than a brown paper bag does, but it is not the way to go if you are serious about ensuring that your data survives a fire because, as you said, there is no way to judge how much protection it offers to a hard drive.
 
chklin said:
Of course it can. The phrase "designed only to" is a remark on the intention of the designers, not the capabilities of the design. If I design a fireproof safe with preserving paper documents as the only design goal, then the safe is designed only to preserve paper.
Click to expand...

No, as Scottie says, you cannot change the laws of physics. It does not matter what your intentions are, ultimately all that matters is the physics of the materials and dimensions of the safe. I already explained the physics of a fireproof safe. The basic idea is to slow down how fast the interior of the safe heats up when the exterior is exposed to temperatures typical of a fire. That will provide protection for paper and for magnetic media.

Perhaps your confusion is stemming from the name. A fireproof safe is not really fireproof, in other words, it is not true that fire cannot damage anything in the safe, paper or otherwise. A "fireproof" safe actually just provides a window of time where the interior of the safe stays cooler than the exterior. If the fire goes on long enough, the interior will heat up enough to damage anything that would have been damaged in the fire anyway. You just have to hope that the fire is out before the contents of the safe are damaged.

By the way, you can nest them! If you want the best protection for your magnetic media, get a large fireproof safe, and then put your data in a small fireproof safe inside the larger safe. That will extend the cool time significantly.
 
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