Backup Appliances

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Jay_2

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We have outgrown out Quantum LTO-4 multiloader tape setup / BackupExec 12.5 (old I know!) and I think its a good time to switch to disk backup.

We have 2 Offices we would like to backup and then replicate that backup to eachother or possibly have a main backup appliance in the DataCenter and branch appliances then replicate both offices to the datacenter device.

Has anyone here done this or do any of you use any of the disk backup appliances?

Thanks
 
We are looking to get into Exagrid in the next year. Scales easily and looks simple to support. They also have proactive support (beyond break fix) like performance monitoring. Plus it's quite a bit cheaper than DataDomain.

Get ready for sticker shock though. Disk based appliances are freaking expensive.
 
Jay_oasis said:
We have outgrown out Quantum LTO-4 multiloader tape setup / BackupExec 12.5 (old I know!) and I think its a good time to switch to disk backup.

We have 2 Offices we would like to backup and then replicate that backup to eachother or possibly have a main backup appliance in the DataCenter and branch appliances then replicate both offices to the datacenter device.

Has anyone here done this or do any of you use any of the disk backup appliances?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Sonicwall makes one..
 
SpaceHonkey said:
We are looking to get into Exagrid in the next year. Scales easily and looks simple to support. They also have proactive support (beyond break fix) like performance monitoring. Plus it's quite a bit cheaper than DataDomain.

Get ready for sticker shock though. Disk based appliances are freaking expensive.
Click to expand...

I am expecting $20,000 per device to be honest.

dashpuppy said:
Sonicwall makes one..
Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust them with my internet connection, why the hell would I think it was a good idea to use them for backup? :D
 
Actually Sonicwall CDP is not to bad. I've used them so and they work very wel accross wan links.Problem is that last time I checked there is no seed loading.
 
DattoBackup Siris
Local appliance....backs up your servers in a VMWare file format.
If one of your servers blows up...you can "boot up" the image in the local Siris appliance..and have it avail on your network within about 15 minutes.
Each day it boots up the backup image of the prior night and takes a screenshot of the login screen and e-mails it to you, so you know the backups are working.
Synchs offsite too...so that if your building burns down or washes away in some flood...thus your local Siris appliance....you can "boot up" your servers backup images in the cloud and have them avail via RDP and/or VPN within about 2 hours.
Based in the US....Connecticut actually, so all local people...no language barrier/butchered english issues....wicked fast and good support.

Pretty slick product eh? yeah...i'm a reseller of it.
 
I use Microsoft DPM. All backups are sent to a 20TB Compellent SAN that is used solely for backups. Important stuff like accounting data is then also copied off to tape.

You could look into RDX backup medium. It is basically a hard drive in a ruggedized case. I might be getting some soon to speed my backup to media. My tape auto-loader is just too damn slow. Tandberg makes an interesting product that can make the drives appear to be LTO-3 tape drives to backup software: http://www.tandbergdata.com/us/index.cfm/products/removable-disk/rdx-quikstation/
 
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Datto Siris or Axcient. Both essentially do the same thing. I'm sure you could roll your own type of solution using Windows Storage Server + image backed backup software.

How much data do you have Jay?
 
We've had good luck with Arkeia recently. Looking into becoming a Unitrends partner as well. Heard LOTS of good things there.
 
Jay_oasis said:
I am expecting $20,000 per device to be honest.
Click to expand...

You should be able to get an EX5000 for around that. Will support up to 5TB per backup. After backup is complete it is deduplicated (and then replicated to another if you choose).

One of the cool things is that you can easily expand them by just getting more - they self assemble into a grid (hence the name) and are managed as a single entity. Makes upgrades easy.

My CDW rep stated that one of his customers that uses them got a call from Exagrid support about a month after implementation to let them know that their deduplication rates were low. They suggested a few changes and afterwards saw much better rates. That's some pretty good support there, though it doesn't come cheap.

We're looking to replace BE 2012 + LTO4 with Commvault Simpana + Exagrid. Can't wait to be off BE!
 
I installed a Datadomain 860 this week. 66TB of net capacity. The real capacity depends on the dedupe ratio of your data though. Neat stuff, easy to install and the CLI is p*ss easy. Didn't expect it to be that simple and straight forward.

There's also Avamar (DataStore or Virtual) if you like client based dedup.

It doesn't come cheap though ...
 
I didn't realise you still need backup exec etc to use DataDomain
 
To all the people using a backup appliance:

How much data are you backing up daily? What is your retention policy?

There is no way I could get the amount of storage I need in an appliance. I have a 20TB SAN just for backups.

I watched the video for Datto and I am not that impressed. The internal virtulazation recovery options of Datto seem really dumb and useless to me. Looks pretty much just like Microsoft System Center Data Protection Manager minus the offsite replication. If you are running any of the System Center Apps I highly recommend you look into DPM. It is a fantastic product and integrates into the System Center Suite very well.
 
schnell said:
How much data are you backing up daily? What is your retention policy?

There is no way I could get the amount of storage I need in an appliance. I have a 20TB SAN just for backups.
Click to expand...

One example....6 servers that total 1.3 TB.
Backing up to a 3TB Datto Siris
Plus 1/2 a dozen important workstations.
30 days worth stay on the local appliance.
365 days worth stay offsite in Dattos data centers
Yearly full snapshot of each server archived on external drives in VMWare format.

20 TB san...what is the total count of your servers...space wise?
 
SantaSCSI said:
I installed a Datadomain 860 this week. 66TB of net capacity. The real capacity depends on the dedupe ratio of your data though. Neat stuff, easy to install and the CLI is p*ss easy. Didn't expect it to be that simple and straight forward.

There's also Avamar (DataStore or Virtual) if you like client based dedup.

It doesn't come cheap though ...
Click to expand...

I've heard DataDomain thrown around as a recommended solution a few times, it still does dedup from what I understand... I'm not a fan of Avamar, (nor EMC for that matter), too many problems to even really detail. You can create some massive RAID solutions in two different sites for a fraction of what something like Avamar would cost you.

If you're OK with a bit of work, you could build your own backup jobs that move them to the server on whatever particular facility you are on. And then move the changed data to the other facility. It is alot of manual setup work, and you'll have to stay on top of backup logs. I'll admit I haven't done much looking because I'm stuck with Avamar, but doing it all again I wouldn't do the EMC route, my two cents. I would image, however, that you could purchase some pretty decent backup software client that could make that all a bit easier for you as well.
 
schnell said:
To all the people using a backup appliance:

How much data are you backing up daily? What is your retention policy?

There is no way I could get the amount of storage I need in an appliance. I have a 20TB SAN just for backups.
Click to expand...

You can get as much storage as you need in an appliance. Exagrid will allow you (with mucho dinero) to push 130TB of backups per pass with a logical capacity of around 2PB considering dedup. Hell DataDomain scales to 66PB logical storage. If you have a few mil lying around, you can backup to disk till your hearts content.

How much are you really backing up and how long do you need to keep it on disk?

Most folks are keeping data on disk for the near term and then aging it off to tape.
 
SpaceHonkey said:
You can get as much storage as you need in an appliance. Exagrid will allow you (with mucho dinero) to push 130TB of backups per pass with a logical capacity of around 2PB considering dedup. Hell DataDomain scales to 66PB logical storage. If you have a few mil lying around, you can backup to disk till your hearts content.

How much are you really backing up and how long do you need to keep it on disk?

Most folks are keeping data on disk for the near term and then aging it off to tape.
Click to expand...

The dd 990 is a monster too, just did the training today 4 hours later and %86 pass
 
SpaceHonkey said:
Most folks are keeping data on disk for the near term and then aging it off to tape.
Click to expand...
Only for what you're legally required to...

You don't want to keep data around longer than you have to. A couple major reasons why you don't want to do that: 1) Cost increases the longer you keep it 2) Legal reasons- something that could fuel a lawsuit against you that you've keep around longer than you had to was a bad idea.

Really depends what OP wants to do...
How much data do you have?
What's the link like between the two facilities? Are they far enough apart to be considered your offsite solution?
What kind of data is this? Just personal files, etc that have no legal ramifications?
What kind of restoration ability do you need? Every hour? Day?
Budget?
Are you OK with some manual work, or do you want to pay massive bucks for a highly automated system?
etc
etc
etc
 
The real limit is your budget. If you want to back up a high volume for extended duration, expect to throw money at the sales rep of whoever comes through that door. The kind of data will also decide whether dedup is a big cost saver or just an expensive feature.

I see a lot of customers moving from tape to disk->tape. Disk based backup for lets say 1 month of retention, anything else legally required to be saved for longer goes to tape. Some go exclusively to disk, but that's a minority. I'm playing around with the new Avamar Extended Retention node that gives you the opportunity to send deduped data from the avamar grid to whatever backup media for extended retention.
 
We have been a user of Avamar for over a year now and I would recommend it if it is in your budget. We have never had any problems with it. We use it to backup around 200 servers and 50 or so desktops.
 
now question is do you require an open file backup solution (excel, access, other)

how about a complex open file solution like backing up pst files (*shudder* .... please say no)

if so be very careful what you choose
 
I am still on this project, the baracuda boxes look pretty good, one in Head Office and one in DR and replication.

We do need an open file backup but thank god no .pst files!

I am also looking at intergrating two projects together for this with the SAN project and the backup project moving into one with EMC.
 
Try this

RHEL 6.2 (RAID 1) and BACKUPPC + Cygwin + Rsync

Works for windows, mac, and linux.

Best part is it costs you little to nothing. Price of hardware, food and snacks + drinks to setup.
 
lsikstrom said:
Try this

RHEL 6.2 (RAID 1) and BACKUPPC + Cygwin + Rsync

Works for windows, mac, and linux.

Best part is it costs you little to nothing. Price of hardware, food and snacks + drinks to setup.
Click to expand...

Sadly its probably best we get a system with support as I may not be here for ever and so that setup may not be best for the business in the long run.

Just got a quote on 2 Barracuda 890 + 12 months support. Just over $90,000 (I am in the UK so it was £60,000)

Ouch!
 
How much data? A 1tb datto is roughly 2g to buy and $under 300 month
 
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