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Bachelors Degree in Networking

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PantherX

Limp Gawd
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Certs are nice but, I want a bachelors degree. Basically I need to go somewhere local...

My only choices are Robert Morris and Westwood.

http://www.robertmorris.edu/cs/
http://it.westwood.edu/

I'm basically looking for people who went to these places... were they good, etc?

It feels kind of half assed, cuz I'd have liked to go to a more traditional college/university but nobody in the area (Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison) offers any networking degrees, which is kinda sad. (Well there is NIU, but I went there for a while and they dicked me around a bit, so fuck those !!!!!mokers)

TIA
 
No such thing as a networking degree.

Which would account for people using MS in sensitive enviroments, but I digress.

You can do Computer Science, which is sorta a catch-all for computer peeps. It's a fun degree, but if you want networking, you will need certs too.
 
Computer Science is programming, actually(99% of the time). There are computer networking degrees, just not anywhere near here... with the exception of NIU, but I already discussed that.
 
Originally posted by PantherX
Computer Science is programming, actually(99% of the time). There are computer networking degrees, just not anywhere near here... with the exception of NIU, but I already discussed that.
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This is the first I've heard about it. And to my knowledge, there is no such thing. You can get a Computer Science, Computer Information Systems, or Computer engineering degree, and CIS vary depending on the school and which dept they fall under.

Example: Computer Science is a branch of mathmatics ( which is silly anyway, but whatever ), so most colleges will load you up on the math here. CIS can either be in Bussiness or Math, so depending, you will get loads of bussiness courses or loads of mathmatics. Engineering is just nuts, you have to be downright crazy to take it.

You may be thinking about a CIS degree, but trust me, it's sorta a fluffy degree.

And you will still need the right certs to be taken seriously.
 
Certs are not necessary to be taken seriously. Skill and experience are.
 
Originally posted by skritch
Certs are not necessary to be taken seriously. Skill and experience are.
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True, let me revise:

Certs are sometimes necessary to get your foot in the door.

Now, I don't have any certs or degrees...but I hire those that do. :D
 
Originally posted by XOR != OR

Certs are sometimes necessary to get your foot in the door.

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Sad but true. Unfortunately, there are far too many people running around who think that, because they have a cert in something, they have no obligation to continue learning about that topic.

The only two certs I have are:

SAGE System Administration Cert (honorary; given to me because I helped develop the program, the business model, and wrote questions for the test, and was Vice President of the program)

Linux+ (taken and passed with a near-perfect score in 10 minutes and zero prep, because I had to evaluate the A+ certification program for a partnership with A+. In the end, it was far too junior for our needs.)

I've also worked on the development of the LPI certification, though they don't give honorary certs to their advisory board members.


When faced with two candidates, with equal experience, and one with certs, I'll hire the one who can demonstrate a willingness to learn and question what they learn, rather than the one who'll swallow whatever they're fed, and never question it. All too often, the latter is the person with the cert -- they tend to think regurgitation is equivalent to skill and experience.
 
Originally posted by XOR != OR
No such thing as a networking degree.
Click to expand...

I'm studying for one right now, only 2 more general ed classes after this semester. However, it is only an associate of science degree, which some people would argue is not even a degree.

When I talked to the counselor about transferring to a University, they suggested that the closest thing to Computer Network Engineering would be MIS (Management Information Science).

Somehow, the MIS required courses didnt look very interesting. :rolleyes:
 
I want a Computer Science degree myself. I'm still undecided on what I want to do as far as networking and programming.
 
The only real networking degree you are going to get is from a technical college.
A bachelors will be a CIS degree, which covers most of the IT area. But not one specific area.

Tech school's aren't a bad choice, since you are learning a much more specialized skill.

You can pick networking, system administration, helpdesk (pass on this one).

The one around me also takes you through the first 3 cisco courses and preps you for the CCNE test.
 
DePaul University is around the corner from Robert Morris College in the Loop (actually across the street). I am currently a junior in their Network Technology (aka Telecommunications) program.

Its a pretty good education for what you are paying. Great professors (most are 20-30 year industry vets), decent labs and lots of room for you to get into whatever aspect of Telecom/Comp Sci you are interested in.

Not to mention that DePaul has a horrendously massive alumni base in Chicago so finding a job becomes that much easier. I like DePaul quite a bit and would recommend it highly.

Read up over here: http://www.cti.depaul.edu/programs/2004/BachelorNT2004.asp
 
Hi there!

I see you're in Antioch. First off, lemee say that you closest thing to "Networking" is Telecommunications. Most schools that offer this as a bachelor's degree focus on data communications and not so much voice communications.

Also, let me suggest NOT going to Robert Morris or Westwood (I live 4 blocks from Westwood) -- they're not considered good colleges. Although, price might be a factor in your college decision. Most employers seem to care quite a bit where you went to college.

DePaul is an excellent college (though the commute might be a bit tiresome, as is Roosevelt (There's a Schaumburg campus, as well as downtown). What's nice about Roosevelt's Computer Science/Telecommunications staff is that all the professors were once working in the field, at least 10-25 years, like DePaul. Most of them are VERY good. Just some suggestions.

Oh yeah, if you're more interested in a technical school (It's a good thing) I'd go or DeVry's Addison campus. They're VERY good at what they teach. Although, they operate on a trimester schedule and is too much for me to handle. (I'm a professional slacker.)
 
Originally posted by skritch
When faced with two candidates, with equal experience, and one with certs, I'll hire the one who can demonstrate a willingness to learn and question what they learn, rather than the one who'll swallow whatever they're fed, and never question it. All too often, the latter is the person with the cert -- they tend to think regurgitation is equivalent to skill and experience.
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Damn, that's well put, I wanna get Certified myself, simply because I wanna get a foot in the door, BUT, I wanna learn, and I wanna keep learning, I don't wanna stop, I wanna learn from Assembly on up, not to get certified, but to LEARN it, because that's what I have an interest in and love for...
 
Originally posted by DubOSv10
I wanna learn from Assembly on up, not to get certified, but to LEARN it, because that's what I have an interest in and love for...
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Not sure if you're talking about CS here, but I would advise you to consider the job market before deciding on majoring in CS. Right now it looks like US Firms will be moving jobs such as these overseas to India and other places. Not to say that you can't major in CS and find a job in the US, but if you want job security CS isn't the best choice.
 
Originally posted by Proneax
Not sure if you're talking about CS here, but I would advise you to consider the job market before deciding on majoring in CS. Right now it looks like US Firms will be moving jobs such as these overseas to India and other places. Not to say that you can't major in CS and find a job in the US, but if you want job security CS isn't the best choice.
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Not everyone who learns something is doing it to get a job. There are still people on the planet who learn for the sake of knowledge. It is, after all, its own reward.
 
I like this guy ^^^ A lot...

I'm not speaking of getting a CS degree, although EE is what I might go after, my eventual goal is to own a Special Effects studio, all of my knowledge on the subject has came from just going forth and learning, not for the money, because it's something I love to do...

I've always had a love for computers and everything technology, I've been interested in programming for some time, and I WILL take the time to learn it, on my own regard, for my own passion, not to get a quick job.

Simple...
 
Also, let me suggest NOT going to Robert Morris or Westwood (I live 4 blocks from Westwood) -- they're not considered good colleges. Although, price might be a factor in your college decision. Most employers seem to care quite a bit where you went to college.
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Blitz, you get an A+ for reading comprehension, thanks for the heads up. I was aware that they were kinda crappy, but I wasn't aware of anything else. Would you happen to know of any schools in Milwaukee? And actually price is quite a factor for me... for some stupid reason I can't get much financial aid, so I'm going to have to get loans and what not.

DePaul is an excellent college (though the commute might be a bit tiresome, as is Roosevelt (There's a Schaumburg campus, as well as downtown). What's nice about Roosevelt's Computer Science/Telecommunications staff is that all the professors were once working in the field, at least 10-25 years, like DePaul. Most of them are VERY good. Just some suggestions.
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Yeah, due to certain circumstances I'm probably going to get enough of a loan to get an apartment anyway, so it really doesn't matter much where I am.... although I'd rather either be in the sticks, or the city... Schamburg isn't my idea of a good time.

I guess I'll look into those schools and see what I come up with.

Thanks.
 
Hrm... DePaul and Roosevelt still seem to place a lot of emphasis on programming... which seems like a waste of my time. I find no joy in programming... :(
 
Where I am going to school, the University of Mary Hardin-Baylor, you have several specialization areas within the Computer Science degree. I am going through a Bachelors program with a major in Computer Science with a specialization in Network Security. Some others are (and these might not be the right names, but its what they offer) Programming, and Network Administration. So on my degree it will say Bachelors of Science in Computer Science specializing in Network Security.

Something like 75% of my computer classes are networking and network security. Of course I have to take the required courses on Structured Programming and Operating Systems. This semester I am taking Operating Systems (teaching how OS's work, how they are built, how processes work, traps, interrupts, etc), a CCNP-level Network Administration class, and a class about cryptography. I love it. Other courses I'd have to take would be a security course on IDS's, firewalls, anti-virus, etc, a telecommunications course (CCNA-level networking course that I got credit for-for being a CCNA), a more simple programming course which includes VB, and I believe I have to take another operating systems course which focuses on administering servers (with a focus on Linux/Unix systems).

You can also choose to minor in things like Games Development, or General Computer Studies which *I think* just allows you to take other courses that might fall under another specialization - say theres a course under Network Administration specialization that isnt part of the Net Security cirriculum but you REALLY want to take it. I think that by minoring in Computer Studies you can take that course, you just have to have 16 hours of addition computer courses to satisfy the requirements for the minor.

The cirriculum does exist, but the degree might not be called a Bachelors in Networking. And you probably wont find anything other than programming at any state-funded school. Look at private schools. I looked at every school in Texas and this was the only school that I found which offered a bachelors in CS but didnt focus 98% on programming.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention since I went back and read another post describing quality of schools....UMHB is ranked around 35th in the Nation. Thats by whatever magazine it is that puts out The Best Colleges In the US or whatever, out of the schools in Texas its around number 4 I think. I think its US News or something that publishes the magazine. My Professors are absolutely brilliant. One is a CCIE and did a lot of computer and networking stuff for the Army and the other worked at Nasa - I believe as one of the guys who problem-solved for mission control. Hes a genius.
 
I went to westwood, got my Bachelors from there. While I can sit here and tell you how terrible a school it really is and how they will screw you over every chance they get I won't waste your time. If you want details feel free to message me or e-mail me if you would like further details.

However, while everybody here will tell you that a networking degree does or doesn't exist people don't really care about your degree for the most part anyway. What they care about is that you took your time and money to make yourself better. College shows employers that you are disiplined and are willing to work. When I started college it was right near the end of the dot bomb boom, 19 - 20 year old kids were getting 60+ thousand a year jobs with little to no experience. Once the dot com boom crapped out alot of them came back to school saying they couldn't get a job anywhere because they didn't have at least an associates. Job experience is really nice but unfortunately when you are young you won't have much experience or the job market won't take most of your job experience serious. They want the piece of paper....even if it is in underwater basket weaving, you still worked to get a degree.

just my 2 cents....and I would love to talk to you about Westwood and how much they suck if you want to hear about it!
 
Originally posted by XOR != OR
Engineering is just nuts, you have to be downright crazy to take it.
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Call me crazy. I thought that those 4yrs of my life would never end! :eek:
 
Originally posted by XOR != OR
No such thing as a networking degree.

Which would account for people using MS in sensitive enviroments, but I digress.

You can do Computer Science, which is sorta a catch-all for computer peeps. It's a fun degree, but if you want networking, you will need certs too.
Click to expand...

There are quite a few networking degrees out there. However, what you or I may term as networking may not be what some universities offer. UMUC offers CMIT (which is my degree plan), but it basically tracks to the MSCE while including GERs and some networking theory and programming basics. Supposedly they're going to offer a new BS in what I would define as networking--the instructor I have now for my Cisco course says it'll pretty much track to the CCNP with lots of telecom stuff thrown in [signaling, circuits (Promina/FCC100, IDNX, PBX) cabling, and so on].
 
I'm at Michigan State University right now <shameless plug> Go Green! </shamelessplug>

Anyway, I'm a Telcom Major, basicly a Networking course, with a few audio production courses on the side that interest me.

Best suggest is get a BS or preferably a Masters, get a couple certs, I'm working on a CCNA right now, and I have an MCP in Windows XP. Plus get a part time job, I do technical support for the university.

After all that and if you know your stuff, and can prove during an interview that you are competent, you are good to go. Doesn't really matter where you go, Telcom can be taught anywhere
 
THREADJACK:

MSU is trying to be Number 1 in the Big Ten, but all those loses have already been recorded overall, lol...You guys winning against three mediocre teams doesn't mean anything,...

Sorry, Basketball fanatic...

GIVES THREAD BACK...

Carry on...
 
The only milwaukee school I know of that may be of use is MATC. (Milwaukee Area Technical College).
 
Originally posted by PantherX
Blitz, you get an A+ for reading comprehension, thanks for the heads up. I was aware that they were kinda crappy, but I wasn't aware of anything else.
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Another ping for DePaul from me. As for the money problem, fill out you FAFSA and when you get it back go in to the Financial Aid office and ask to speak with them about what you can do to increase the amount. Most colleges have a budget that allows them to make grants and loans to students that need help. Friend of mine is currently going thru the same problem - got as much money as he could and a job on campus. He's not living the high life - but he has an apartment to himself and is getting the degree and in the long run, that is what matters.

Would you happen to know of any schools in Milwaukee?
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No personal experience with these but it's a starting point:
http://milwaukee.areaconnect.com/city-colleges.htm
 
Originally posted by PantherX
Hrm... DePaul and Roosevelt still seem to place a lot of emphasis on programming... which seems like a waste of my time. I find no joy in programming... :(
Click to expand...


I'm not sure what you consider an "emphasis", but at DePaul I have only had to take 2 Java courses, a VB.net and an ASP.net class. 4 classes total, out of about 48 isn't bad.

Word on the street is that they will be dumping Java soon and going back to C/C++ (thankgod).
 
Originally posted by PantherX

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
°F = (5/9)(x-32) °C
°C = (9/5)x+32 °F
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Click to expand...

On a sidenote... try using F and C as the variables instead of 'x', not to mention the formulas are a little confusing (or a little wrong)... how can F = C or C= F in there?

°C = (5/9)(F-32)
°F = (9/5)C + 32

Or

°C = (5/9)(F-32) °C
°F = (9/5)C + 32 °F

Not

°C = (5/9)(F-32) °F, which therefore °C = °F, which is not true
°F = (9/5)C + 32 °C, which therefore °F = °C, which is not true

Blah... can you tell I have nothing better to do :D
 
My advice:

Take all the money your planning on spending on school and go to your local community college. Use the rest of the money you saved to buy a bunch of Cisco lab equipment and study your ass off. 4 years from now when you graduate from blah blah community college with a CCIE I GUARANTEE you you'll have no problems finding work. Contrast that to graduating from some shitty technical college with a "networking degree" where you'll be lucky to be making 40k.
 
Originally posted by pointdexterish
I'm not sure what you consider an "emphasis", but at DePaul I have only had to take 2 Java courses, a VB.net and an ASP.net class. 4 classes total, out of about 48 isn't bad.

Word on the street is that they will be dumping Java soon and going back to C/C++ (thankgod).
Click to expand...
Same here -- at Roosevelt, all I've had to take so far was an introductory C++ Class, I might have to take one more to graduate.
 
Originally posted by Madnes5
My advice:

Take all the money your planning on spending on school and go to your local community college. Use the rest of the money you saved to buy a bunch of Cisco lab equipment and study your ass off. 4 years from now when you graduate from blah blah community college with a CCIE I GUARANTEE you you'll have no problems finding work. Contrast that to graduating from some shitty technical college with a "networking degree" where you'll be lucky to be making 40k.
Click to expand...

Some Joe Schmoe with a CCIE and no experience is still a Joe Schmoe with NO EXPERIENCE. That's what employers are really looking for these days. A CCIE and a BS is good, but without experience you'll still be dead in the water. Besides, unless you've got upwards of 10 years experience to show for that level of a cert any employer with half a brain will be able to pick these folks out as paper tigers. Believe me, they're out there right now wondering why they can't get jobs even though their boot camp instructors said they would be making $100K a year and beating head-hunters away with a stick.
 
Originally posted by BobSutan
Some Joe Schmoe with a CCIE and no experience is still a Joe Schmoe with NO EXPERIENCE. That's what employers are really looking for these days. A CCIE and a BS is good, but without experience you'll still be dead in the water. Besides, unless you've got upwards of 10 years experience to show for that level of a cert any employer with half a brain will be able to pick these folks out as paper tigers. Believe me, they're out there right now wondering why they can't get jobs even though their boot camp instructors said they would be making $100K a year and beating head-hunters away with a stick.
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CCIE and experience are mutually inclusive. It's not possible to get a CCIE without having a lot of hands on experience.

And I disagree with the 10 years. I work with a CCIE who doesn't have 10 years experience but he is definately qualified.
 
I am going to give another shot for DeVry. I just left there Tcom program last June. They are now a full Univ. so you will get a real Bachelors Degree from them. It's not just a Tech school any more. Also for the IT field people from DeVry are looked upon very highly.

I just got done interviewing people and the ones from DeVry were so much better then the other schools. We even had a kid from DePaul with a bachelors in CS that knew nothing. If you can afford the cost and what to work in the IT field go to DeVry. You will get a better job when you're done.
 
Originally posted by Madnes5
CCIE and experience are mutually inclusive. It's not possible to get a CCIE without having a lot of hands on experience.

And I disagree with the 10 years. I work with a CCIE who doesn't have 10 years experience but he is definately qualified.
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Believe me, there are CCIE paper certs out there. Given they're few and far between, but the do exist. That's not to say they don't have some knowledge, but the one's I've encountered were extrodinarilly good at taking tests. However, when it came time to apply their knowledge to the real world they usually crumble. This just happened to us during OIF. And the one I'm speaking of in particular was pretty much just good for making instructional documents and cutsheets (probably due to all the books he had nearby). We came to find out that he braindumped/boot camped his way through tht whole process (and all on the taxpayer's dime I might add).

The 10 year thing is what I've been told by headhunters that employers look for when someone mentions high-level certs like the CCIE. Is it a hard and fast rule? Of course not. If you had a demanding job for 6 years that opened you up to all sorts of technologies and issues you had to resolve, I'm completely sure you could pull it off in a shorter timeframe than what one would typically expect. I'm hearing similar things for CCNP and CCSP people: 4 to 6 years experience or they pass you right up (apparently presuming you're a paper tiger if you have mid-level certs in less time).
 
Originally posted by XOR != OR
Engineering is just nuts, you have to be downright crazy to take it.
Click to expand...

Hey whats wrong with an EE degree? That is what I got and I am a software developer. To a person hiring that has half a brain will know that any type of Engineering degree will show that you are somewhat smart in some areas, hardworking, and has really good problem solving skills. Cause the most important thing any engineering program teaches you is how to systematically solve problems. Learning about math, science and some tech related stuff is just a requirement to solve problems.

As for Networking degree, stay away from CIS and MIS degrees unless it is from a very well respected school. These are usually just a step up from basket weaving. Focus on a degree that is well known from a well known school, and get good grades. That will land you the first job, from then on it is how well you do in that job. Not what degree you got.
 
Originally posted by BobSutan
Believe me, there are CCIE paper certs out there. Given they're few and far between, but the do exist. That's not to say they don't have some knowledge, but the one's I've encountered were extrodinarilly good at taking tests. However, when it came time to apply their knowledge to the real world they usually crumble. This just happened to us during OIF. And the one I'm speaking of in particular was pretty much just good for making instructional documents and cutsheets (probably due to all the books he had nearby). We came to find out that he braindumped/boot camped his way through tht whole process (and all on the taxpayer's dime I might add).
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong (which of course, I'm not), but how exactly can you be a paper cert, yet need to pass a test which requires an 8 hour lab session, you have to have quite a bit of experience in a hands-on environment and know your stuff to pass a Lab test...LOL, or so I would think...

LOL, you seem to be making a bunch of general statements trying to speak for the whole industry, everytime I see a post, you are downing the idea of certification, you seem hostile, have a bad experience or...

I'm curious to know, where exactly do YOU work...
 
Originally posted by Doc Holiday
I am going to give another shot for DeVry. I just left there Tcom program last June. They are now a full Univ. so you will get a real Bachelors Degree from them. It's not just a Tech school any more. Also for the IT field people from DeVry are looked upon very highly.

I just got done interviewing people and the ones from DeVry were so much better then the other schools. We even had a kid from DePaul with a bachelors in CS that knew nothing. If you can afford the cost and what to work in the IT field go to DeVry. You will get a better job when you're done.
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And if I remember correctly, 92% of those who graduate in Telecommunications at DeVry get a job within 6 months of graduating. And that was the lowest percentile out of all of the degrees DeVry offered!
 
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