AW3821DW (Nov 2020) with GSync Ultimate

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Mine came in this past Saturday... set them up yesterday and today. Is there a calculator for FOV and how to properly measure these things to keep the curve between 2 displays? I feel like they are either too curved or too flat for my eye.

Still a WIP.

edit: before questions.. dual 3821's with a Asus PG348 on top. 3090FTW for video doody.
 

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Zepher

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Mine came in this past Saturday... set them up yesterday and today. Is there a calculator for FOV and how to properly measure these things to keep the curve between 2 displays? I feel like they are either too curved or too flat for my eye.

Still a WIP.

edit: before questions.. dual 3821's with a Asus PG348 on top. 3090FTW for video doody.
Maybe give this a read,
https://www.viewsonic.com/library/entertainment/monitor-curvature-explained/

Your 3821's are 2300R
 
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Just for fun.. maybe ya'll will know. I have the 3821's running at 144hz in windows for now (will probably set them at 120 for 10bit color in the future).. but my Asus PG348 is running at 50hz - don't really care, but is this a limit of the HDMI port on the card? I can't get it to run any higher.

I have 2 DP's for the 3821's, 1 DP for my PiMax and 1 HDMI for the Asus display.

I'm also interested in "the latest" on how to line up the bezels... I'm coming from 10, maybe even 12 year old U3011's that had huge ass bezels that lined up enough to not care enough - I'd love to get these as exact as possible for a cleaner look since I now have a bezel directly in front of me... with the U3011's, they were at least between the center and side screens....
 

Spartacus09

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mind telling me the price? PM if you don't want it public.
You better have if you are getting such a good deal :p. I want a better deal than MSRP but, well, I don't know anyone at Dell.
1605682395644.png


Final price with tax/ship ~ with the 5 year coverage
If it had been anymore I probably would have gone with the 27" but my budget was right around 1k pretax, so I splurged a little to future proof myself for a bit.
I'm hoping to have this last me the next 3-4 years in which ideally there will be a 35-40" OLED selection available.
 
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AP2

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Spartacus09 ... that’s a smoking deal! I just bought the 27” model today. Wish could’ve had your price lol - my budget was around 1k as well.
 
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Sycraft

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Final price with tax/ship ~ with the 5 year coverage
If it had been anymore I probably would have gone with the 27" but my budget was right around 1k pretax, so I splurged a little to future proof myself for a bit.
I'm hoping to have this last me the next 3-4 years in which ideally there will be a 35-40" OLED selection available.
Ya tell your friend I hate him for getting you such a good deal... Unless of course he wants to give ME that deal in which case he is my best friend for ever of all time! 😆
 

Spartacus09

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Spartacus09 ... that’s a smoking deal! I just bought the 27” model today. Wish could’ve had your price lol - my budget was around 1k as well.
The 27" was $400 less, I went back and forth on it, if it lasts me 6 years like my old monitor did I'll call it a solid investment.
On top of that I can likely get $300 out of my old monitor selling it, so while I won't have a backup anymore its even more justified.
I'm sure this one would resell decently in a few years when/if sufficient OLED options become available.

Ya tell your friend I hate him for getting you such a good deal... Unless of course he wants to give ME that deal in which case he is my best friend for ever of all time! 😆

Wasn't even a 'friend', it was our Dell representative through our work partnership. Though after this I think he's been upgraded to friend status.
I assume he ordered it for me through the employee/partner program not sure if thats a normal thing or if we just do enough business with them.
 

Sycraft

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So FedEx brought mine early today, which was nice but a little annoying since I didn't know to be home to accept it. However after an alert form the cameras I rushed home to bring it in.

Initial impressions are very good. Panel quality is great, no issues on a first inspection. It is bright and colorful as you'd expect. Controls are pretty easy to work. Didn't have any issues with my long DP cable. Gsync works correctly out of the box and looks good. I haven't tested it at extremely low FPS or anything but no issues.

It probably has a fan, but man is it quiet. If I put my ear to the top of the monitor I can hear what sounds like a quiet fan but not otherwise and I have a VERY silent room. Like my computer is not in the room, it is outside in a closet (hence the long DP cable) because I hate noise. So no problems there.

HDR works surprisingly well. In HDR mode you have to have the variable backlight on, you can't disable it (in SDR mode it is off by default but you can turn it on if you want) but it seems ok over all. It isn't the best I've seen or anything, my TV does a better job with localized HDR for sure, but it is pretty usable. They seem to have the zone change slowly enough and overlap enough that it isn't jarring. Not going to fool you in to thinking it is an OLED but not unusable, as I worried it might be.

Menus are decent. Biggest complaint I have is that some controls I'd like to see are lacking (like an sRGB emulation mode) and various kinds of controls only exist in certain modes. For example you can't access RGB gains in any mode except for "custom color" and you can't access RGBCMY balance in any mode except for the "game 1/2/3". Also there's no gamma curve adjustment. It's fine, but I'd like to see more controls. Heck I'd like to see 10-point white balance calibration like you get on a TV.

My GPU has a sad, it was able to run everything at 2560x1440 above 60fps no problem, now not so much. I will have to get a 3090 for sure in the distant future when you actually can find them :p.

I haven't done any tests on white point or gamut yet, I'll do them later though I only have an i1 Display Pro, not a Pro Plus so it isn't fully rated for an HDR monitor.

All in all a good display. I don't know if it is "worth" what it costs, but it does what it promises, including having usable HDR.

EDIT:

Initial calibration tests look pretty good. White point is pretty close in its default mode, 6900k or so. A touch blue but nothing most people would notice. Gamma looks to be approximately sRGB or so. Not right on but a gamma near 1 for dark tones, and then up around 2.2 for the rest. Contrast ratio measures around 900:1 so about what you'd expect. Backlight can easily be reduced to extremely low levels, as well as extremely high. In HDR mode you lose backlight control on the device, you have to control it through Windows doe SDR content (HDR content has no control, it is mastered for absolute levels). It's not good like a pro graphics monitor, but it is pretty good. I imagine most people will be happy with it by default.
 
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Murzilka

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So FedEx brought mine early today, which was nice but a little annoying since I didn't know to be home to accept it. However after an alert form the cameras I rushed home to bring it in.

Initial impressions are very good. Panel quality is great, no issues on a first inspection. It is bright and colorful as you'd expect. Controls are pretty easy to work. Didn't have any issues with my long DP cable. Gsync works correctly out of the box and looks good. I haven't tested it at extremely low FPS or anything but no issues.

It probably has a fan, but man is it quiet. If I put my ear to the top of the monitor I can hear what sounds like a quiet fan but not otherwise and I have a VERY silent room. Like my computer is not in the room, it is outside in a closet (hence the long DP cable) because I hate noise. So no problems there.

HDR works surprisingly well. In HDR mode you have to have the variable backlight on, you can't disable it (in SDR mode it is off by default but you can turn it on if you want) but it seems ok over all. It isn't the best I've seen or anything, my TV does a better job with localized HDR for sure, but it is pretty usable. They seem to have the zone change slowly enough and overlap enough that it isn't jarring. Not going to fool you in to thinking it is an OLED but not unusable, as I worried it might be.

Menus are decent. Biggest complaint I have is that some controls I'd like to see are lacking (like an sRGB emulation mode) and various kinds of controls only exist in certain modes. For example you can't access RGB gains in any mode except for "custom color" and you can't access RGBCMY balance in any mode except for the "game 1/2/3". Also there's no gamma curve adjustment. It's fine, but I'd like to see more controls. Heck I'd like to see 10-point white balance calibration like you get on a TV.

My GPU has a sad, it was able to run everything at 2560x1440 above 60fps no problem, now not so much. I will have to get a 3090 for sure in the distant future when you actually can find them :p.

I haven't done any tests on white point or gamut yet, I'll do them later though I only have an i1 Display Pro, not a Pro Plus so it isn't fully rated for an HDR monitor.

All in all a good display. I don't know if it is "worth" what it costs, but it does what it promises, including having usable HDR.

EDIT:

Initial calibration tests look pretty good. White point is pretty close in its default mode, 6900k or so. A touch blue but nothing most people would notice. Gamma looks to be approximately sRGB or so. Not right on but a gamma near 1 for dark tones, and then up around 2.2 for the rest. Contrast ratio measures around 900:1 so about what you'd expect. Backlight can easily be reduced to extremely low levels, as well as extremely high. In HDR mode you lose backlight control on the device, you have to control it through Windows doe SDR content (HDR content has no control, it is mastered for absolute levels). It's not good like a pro graphics monitor, but it is pretty good. I imagine most people will be happy with it by default.
It does have sRGB mode it's just named differently, right?
 

Sycraft

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It does have sRGB mode it's just named differently, right?
Not that I can find. Maybe one of the game modes is sRGB emulation, I haven't tried them extensively. One way you can get sRGB is to run the monitor in HDR mode. It reports its gamut properly to Windows (as required by DsiplayHDR certification) and Windows then will have SDR apps display in the sRGB color space.

Personally I am finding games look pretty good with the extra gamut so what I'll probably do is run it wide gamut. Just installing the Dell ICM file (or in my case generating one with my calibrator) will make it so modern browsers will handle dealing with sRGB-WCG internally. So websites, videos, etc all look fine so long as the system has a proper color management file to let them know what to do.

I'll be testing it more as I have time and post more info for people.
 

Sycraft

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It has arrived ~

The box looks about the same size as my old U3415w, will find out when I get home, the wife took the pic for me and said 'this thing is ridiculous'

The box is stupidly large. Not only because it is a big display but they have a looot of foam around it. I think they've learned not to trust FedEx.
 

Zepher

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The box is stupidly large. Not only because it is a big display but they have a looot of foam around it. I think they've learned not to trust FedEx.
When I ordered my AW3420DW from Amazon, I had them box monitor, so that was a really large box.
 

Murzilka

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Not that I can find. Maybe one of the game modes is sRGB emulation, I haven't tried them extensively. One way you can get sRGB is to run the monitor in HDR mode. It reports its gamut properly to Windows (as required by DsiplayHDR certification) and Windows then will have SDR apps display in the sRGB color space.

Personally I am finding games look pretty good with the extra gamut so what I'll probably do is run it wide gamut. Just installing the Dell ICM file (or in my case generating one with my calibrator) will make it so modern browsers will handle dealing with sRGB-WCG internally. So websites, videos, etc all look fine so long as the system has a proper color management file to let them know what to do.

I'll be testing it more as I have time and post more info for people.
Yes, if you have time - test all modes for sRGB gamut support. I think one of the gaming presets should be sRGB. In that case it would be interesting to know if you can adjust the color temperature in that mode.
 

Sycraft

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Yes, if you have time - test all modes for sRGB gamut support. I think one of the gaming presets should be sRGB. In that case it would be interesting to know if you can adjust the color temperature in that mode.
You can only adjust color temperature in "custom color" mode. That I already tested. However as I noted, it is pretty close by default, I doubt you'd notice the difference. I only turned blue down by about 4 clicks, and green by one, to get it right on D65. In Game 1/2/3 you can adjust RGBCMY 6 color sliders, but they are not adjusting the peak white point, I'm not sure precisely what they adjust and I'm not sure how easily I'll be able to measure precisely what they do.
 

AP2

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I’m in IT for a very large corp and I’m seeking out who our dell contact is. Every time I see updates to this thread makes me regret getting the 27”. Lol damn you!
 

Murzilka

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You can only adjust color temperature in "custom color" mode. That I already tested. However as I noted, it is pretty close by default, I doubt you'd notice the difference. I only turned blue down by about 4 clicks, and green by one, to get it right on D65. In Game 1/2/3 you can adjust RGBCMY 6 color sliders, but they are not adjusting the peak white point, I'm not sure precisely what they adjust and I'm not sure how easily I'll be able to measure precisely what they do.
Is there only one "custom color" mode? The predator X38 had "custom color" available almost for every preset. And I could tie different gamuts to any input separately... And since there is only one "custom color" mode, do I understand it right, that it is definitely wide gamut and you measured it so?
 

Sycraft

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Is there only one "custom color" mode? The predator X38 had "custom color" available almost for every preset. And I could tie different gamuts to any input separately... And since there is only one "custom color" mode, do I understand it right, that it is definitely wide gamut and you measured it so?
There is only one mode called custom color, and it seems to be the only one with RGB adjustment for peak whitepoint. It measures as wide gamut with my i1. Now that's not a spectrophotometer so it can't completely accurately measure gamut, but I'd trust the results in general.
 

PC4CAB

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Got my monitor today! And yes, the box is crazy big!

So far, I am liking it. If anyone has any tweaks they can share for optimum picture, that would be awesome.

Cheers,
 

Murzilka

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There is only one mode called custom color, and it seems to be the only one with RGB adjustment for peak whitepoint. It measures as wide gamut with my i1. Now that's not a spectrophotometer so it can't completely accurately measure gamut, but I'd trust the results in general.
The i1 display pro is plenty good for it, imo.
 

Sycraft

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So near as I can tell, none of the modes are sRGB. They are all the same wide gamut. In theory you might be able to adjust Game 1/2/3 to be sRGB with the 6 axis controls, as when you set them all to 0% the display is monochrome. However for that I'd need software that could let me do 6 axis adjustment to target a gamut and the only thing I know of like that is SpectraCAL which I do not have a license for and am not spending $2000 on. Not sure how good the result would be as sometimes 6-axis adjustments introduce non-linearities in the response but I'd try it if I could.

If you need a hardware sRGB mode though, this screen is not for you at least at this point. Maybe Dell could be convinced to add one later? Not sure how updatable their firmware is, nor if something like that could be added.
 

Spartacus09

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1605825180598.png


So first impressions:
  • oh my god EVERYTHING IS SO SMOOTH, I haven't even launched a game but the window transitions, browser popups, everything moves so nicely in 144hz vs 60hz.
  • Normal thoughts: this stupid thing lights up with rgb, why did I need this? ~ monkey brain: "Me like blinkey blinkey"
  • The base says its 11.5" deep, and it is front to back/edge to edge however the actual rubber divets for sitting measure right at 11", which is perfect for my monitor riser.
  • There is a fan and its noticeable....wait a minute that's my printer fan. j/k its dead silent, even with everything in my office off I can't hear it, as others have noted you can hear a faint whirr if you're ear is up against the vent but otherwise no noise.
  • I thought my 34" was big, but this thing somehow dwarfs it, I'm 6', but sit at a 6'5" chair height (thanks scoliosis) this is the first monitor I've had to lower to center it to my vision (be it may its on a riser, I'm impressed I can almost make due without it). However even though I'm about the optimal distance from the monitor 2.5', its seems almost too large still.
 

Zepher

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View attachment 300967

So first impressions:
  • oh my god EVERYTHING IS SO SMOOTH, I haven't even launched a game but the window transitions, browser popups, everything moves so nicely in 144hz vs 60hz.
  • Normal thoughts: this stupid thing lights up with rgb, why did I need this? ~ monkey brain: "Me like blinkey blinkey"
  • The base says its 11.5" deep, and it is front to back/edge to edge however the actual rubber divets for sitting measure right at 11", which is perfect for my monitor riser.
  • There is a fan and its noticeable....wait a minute that's my printer fan. j/k its dead silent, even with everything in my office off I can't hear it, as others have noted you can hear a faint whirr if you're ear is up against the vent but otherwise no noise.
  • I thought my 34" was big, but this thing somehow dwarfs it, I'm 6', but sit at a 6'5" chair height (thanks scoliosis) this is the first monitor I've had to lower to center it to my vision (be it may its on a riser, I'm impressed I can almost make due without it). However even though I'm about the optimal distance from the monitor 2.5', its seems almost too large still.
Well, if you don't want it, I'll take it off your hands.
 

wizzi01

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The 27" was $400 less, I went back and forth on it, if it lasts me 6 years like my old monitor did I'll call it a solid investment.
On top of that I can likely get $300 out of my old monitor selling it, so while I won't have a backup anymore its even more justified.
I'm sure this one would resell decently in a few years when/if sufficient OLED options become available.



Wasn't even a 'friend', it was our Dell representative through our work partnership. Though after this I think he's been upgraded to friend status.
I assume he ordered it for me through the employee/partner program not sure if thats a normal thing or if we just do enough business with them.
It should last. I have had good luck with Dell monitors. I just recently gave my U2410 to a friend to use and it was still going strong.
 

Spartacus09

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It should last. I have had good luck with Dell monitors. I just recently gave my U2410 to a friend to use and it was still going strong.
Same, I started with a U2412m that lasted me 4 years (then sold it), then upgraded to the U3415w, that lasted me 6 years (lending it to my boss currently as a try and buy :))
I buy the extended 5 year warranty on allofem, so provided my kids don't push it off my desk it'll last me at least that long <$250/year isnt too bad for this high of spec of monitor.
 

Murzilka

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So near as I can tell, none of the modes are sRGB. They are all the same wide gamut. In theory you might be able to adjust Game 1/2/3 to be sRGB with the 6 axis controls, as when you set them all to 0% the display is monochrome. However for that I'd need software that could let me do 6 axis adjustment to target a gamut and the only thing I know of like that is SpectraCAL which I do not have a license for and am not spending $2000 on. Not sure how good the result would be as sometimes 6-axis adjustments introduce non-linearities in the response but I'd try it if I could.

If you need a hardware sRGB mode though, this screen is not for you at least at this point. Maybe Dell could be convinced to add one later? Not sure how updatable their firmware is, nor if something like that could be added.
Well, I'm going to keep trying the Acer then. If I wanted a wide gamut monitor I would be running one already. Thanks for your efforts, btw.
 

thelead

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Just for fun.. maybe ya'll will know. I have the 3821's running at 144hz in windows for now (will probably set them at 120 for 10bit color in the future).. but my Asus PG348 is running at 50hz - don't really care, but is this a limit of the HDMI port on the card? I can't get it to run any higher.

I have 2 DP's for the 3821's, 1 DP for my PiMax and 1 HDMI for the Asus display.

I'm also interested in "the latest" on how to line up the bezels... I'm coming from 10, maybe even 12 year old U3011's that had huge ass bezels that lined up enough to not care enough - I'd love to get these as exact as possible for a cleaner look since I now have a bezel directly in front of me... with the U3011's, they were at least between the center and side screens....
50hz is a limitation of the HDMI port on the monitor.
 

Sycraft

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Testing the variable backlight, I would say there are approximately 30 zones on the panel which, to quote Chernobyl "Not great, not terrible." :D. It looks like there are 15 across the screen and it is lit from the top and bottom so 30 total. Not going to win any awards for pinpoint accuracy with that, and means that horizontal zones are must more separated than vertical. So equivalent to a lower end TV basically.

So with HDR content you'll get the color and brightness you need for it, but it isn't going to do the "bright stars on an inky background" thing or anything like that. At some point I'll have to test some games against my older Vizio P series which has somewhere in the range of 100-200 FALD zones, as well as a VA panel (though worse DCI-P3 coverage), and see how much better that looks for HDR than this to get a better feel for just how good, or not, this is at HDR. But it is usable for sure, where the HDR400 displays with no zones seem to be complete trash at HDR and you'd never want to actually use them for HDR content.
 

Sycraft

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LG has two monitors actually that are similar and confusingly named. the 38GL950G and the 38GL950. They both use the same basic panel as the Alienware (LG makes said panel). The G version has Gsync, but no local dimming and only HDR400. The non-G version is Freesync but has local dimming and HDR600. The Alienware is Gsync and HDR600.

Outside of that there are some other differences. The advantages the Alienware has is mostly quality and warranty. The LGs have a 1 year "you send it in" warranty and not the best customer service. Alienware has a 3 year (with options to purchase 4 and 5) advanced exchange warranty and fairly decent customer service. Also Dell is pretty fussy about the panel quality for their Alienware stuff and only buys the highest grade panels.

The advantages for the LGs, other than price, is that they have some features the Alienware doesn't. They can be overclocked (175Hz for the G, 160Hz for the normal) and the have more color controls, like the ability to do sRGB emulation.
 

Scottyl48

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LG has two monitors actually that are similar and confusingly named. the 38GL950G and the 38GL950. They both use the same basic panel as the Alienware (LG makes said panel). The G version has Gsync, but no local dimming and only HDR400. The non-G version is Freesync but has local dimming and HDR600. The Alienware is Gsync and HDR600.

Outside of that there are some other differences. The advantages the Alienware has is mostly quality and warranty. The LGs have a 1 year "you send it in" warranty and not the best customer service. Alienware has a 3 year (with options to purchase 4 and 5) advanced exchange warranty and fairly decent customer service. Also Dell is pretty fussy about the panel quality for their Alienware stuff and only buys the highest grade panels.

The advantages for the LGs, other than price, is that they have some features the Alienware doesn't. They can be overclocked (175Hz for the G, 160Hz for the normal) and the have more color controls, like the ability to do sRGB emulation.
Thanks for the response. So from a pic/color stand point they are both the same?
 

Sycraft

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Thanks for the response. So from a pic/color stand point they are both the same?
Should be, ya. I mean I haven't had them side by side or anything but it is the same LG panel and the panel is the biggest influence on the picture of a display.
 

Scottyl48

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Should be, ya. I mean I haven't had them side by side or anything but it is the same LG panel and the panel is the biggest influence on the picture of a display.
Last question...would u prefer one of these OVER the LG cx 48? I want better than my asus..
 

Sycraft

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Last question...would u prefer one of these OVER the LG cx 48? I want better than my asus..
Well ya... I bought one :D. The biggest problem I have with the LG is that it is too large to operate as a desktop monitor. I would need to mount it further away than I have space for. Placed at a normal monitor distance, it would be too large, the top of the screen too high which is unergonomic and can lead to neck and back problems form craning your neck to see it. Also I'm not comfortable with OLEDs for desktop use. While they've gone a long way to dealing with burn in, desktop use is a worst case scenario where you have a highly static image ever time you turn it on. Doesn't mean burn in will be a problem for sure, but I worry particularly since I do a lot of desktop non-gaming work. I am also really enjoying the ultrawide aspect ratio since it fills a field of view better.

Don't get me wrong, I like OLEDs, but I wouldn't want a 48" TV as a computer monitor.
 

Spartacus09

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Well ya... I bought one :D. The biggest problem I have with the LG is that it is too large to operate as a desktop monitor. I would need to mount it further away than I have space for. Placed at a normal monitor distance, it would be too large, the top of the screen too high which is unergonomic and can lead to neck and back problems form craning your neck to see it. Also I'm not comfortable with OLEDs for desktop use. While they've gone a long way to dealing with burn in, desktop use is a worst case scenario where you have a highly static image ever time you turn it on. Doesn't mean burn in will be a problem for sure, but I worry particularly since I do a lot of desktop non-gaming work. I am also really enjoying the ultrawide aspect ratio since it fills a field of view better.

Don't get me wrong, I like OLEDs, but I wouldn't want a 48" TV as a computer monitor.
This is exactly what I'm waiting on a 35-40" OLED option in several years, that would be my next upgrade from this 38" provided they are 120hz+.
The hope/assumption would be there would be next gen GPUs that will be able to handle 4k better at that point.
 

Sycraft

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This is exactly what I'm waiting on a 35-40" OLED option in several years, that would be my next upgrade from this 38" provided they are 120hz+.
The hope/assumption would be there would be next gen GPUs that will be able to handle 4k better at that point.
That or maybe just a really good FALD system. While that still doesn't get the viewing angles of OLED, IPS particularly curved is pretty good. So if you had something with like 2000 dimming zones it might give you performance that was much like an OLED in actual games, but no risk of burn in and also brighter. We'll see. I decided that just waiting for a "perfect" display was silly as that'll probably never happen, and so I'd get a new toy now.
 

AP2

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,509
Sadly i just received the 27” version and there’s tons of bleeding 😭. Gonna return it for the 38. Any issues with yours bleeding?
 

Sycraft

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
4,790
Sadly i just received the 27” version and there’s tons of bleeding 😭. Gonna return it for the 38. Any issues with yours bleeding?
No doesn't seem to have any issues. I mean you see faint white glow around the sides when you are in the middle because it is so huge you get IPS glow on the sides but when you move it goes away. The only place mine seems to have any BLB is just a faint hint in the lower left corner. It is pretty hard to notice, even on a black screen when you look for it and not at all a bother, I never notice anything in actual content.

I do wonder if the 27" models may end up having more trouble though... The reason is that they are probably using AUO panels rather than LG panels, and AUO seems to not have their shit together with QC on their high speed panels. I remember back in the day when the first IPS 1440 144Hz monitors came out. It was an AUO panel, LG didn't have a corresponding panel. ASUS, Acer, and Viewsonic all made them but Viewsonic stopped because they had so many QC issues (I actually have a Viewsonic monitor that uses one). The ASUS and Acer ones had tons of reviews blasting the issues.

Well near as I know, LG doesn't have a 27" 240Hz IPS panel. We know they are making the 38" panel though. So it is probably an AUO panel and I wonder if that is going to mean more issues. Good news is Dell should deal with it for you.
 
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