Automatic License Plate Readers: A Threat To Privacy

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While the technology itself is actually kinda cool, it is what officials are doing with the data that has privacy advocates up in arms.

ALPRs are cameras mounted on stationary objects (telephone poles, the underside of bridges, etc.) or on patrol cars. The cameras snap a photograph of every license plate that passes them by – capturing information on up to thousands of cars per minute. The devices convert each license plate number into machine-readable text and check them against agency-selected databases or manually-entered license plate numbers, providing an alert to a patrol officer whenever a match or “hit” appears.
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I don't see how this is privacy invasive. If the car you're driving is tagged for something, nothing wrong with the cops verifying what is going on. On the other hand, it could be taken a whole lot further & utilized for BS profiling. That would definitely be invasive & offensive.
 
CrimsonKnight13 said:
I don't see how this is privacy invasive. If the car you're driving is tagged for something, nothing wrong with the cops verifying what is going on. On the other hand, it could be taken a whole lot further & utilized for BS profiling. That would definitely be invasive & offensive.
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That's what they are talking about. Data is being retained, in many cases, from every license plate it recognizes, not just ones that generate a hit in their software.

It's not a huge deal now since these devices aren't everywhere, and so its usefulness as a warrantless tracking system is pretty sad. But it's better to tackle this issue now before the police start putting the damn things at every intersection.
 
NKDietrich said:
That's what they are talking about. Data is being retained, in many cases, from every license plate it recognizes, not just ones that generate a hit in their software.

It's not a huge deal now since these devices aren't everywhere, and so its usefulness as a warrantless tracking system is pretty sad. But it's better to tackle this issue now before the police start putting the damn things at every intersection.
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There never fails to be the light, the grey, & the dark side to technology. This one sits in the grey until someone starts going bashit insane with its utilization.
 
CrimsonKnight13 said:
I don't see how this is privacy invasive. If the car you're driving is tagged for something, nothing wrong with the cops verifying what is going on.
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The ACLU is claiming that many of these systems are recording data for plates that match as well as plates that don't. Having specific records of vehicular travel without a warrant for an unlimited amount of time is a privacy issue.
 
Here's the real issue:

“mobile LPR cameras may collect the license plate numbers of vehicles parked at locations that, even though public, might be considered sensitive, such as doctor’ offices, clinics, churches, and addiction counseling meetings, among others.”
 
toast0 said:
The ACLU is claiming that many of these systems are recording data for plates that match as well as plates that don't. Having specific records of vehicular travel without a warrant for an unlimited amount of time is a privacy issue.
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I definitely retract the first sentence since I can see where the issue is going. My initial thought was regarding actual warrants & catching sneaky asshats from running free.
 
Was on the / page of the [H] forums and saw:

Automatic License Plate Readers: A

My mind filled the rest of the title in:

55 RGY

:D

Bottom line is, we're moving towards a society that tracks our every move, and staying off the grid is going to get harder and harder with each bit of data added. Think retinal recognition and targeted advertising a la Minority Report.

It's a godsend for tracking criminals, but the price to the rest of us is going to be liberty. I don't think we're going to reach a hard stop any time soon.
 
Next up, automatic speeding tickets and insurance premium increases! Woohoo! :rolleyes:
 
VRMan said:
Next up, automatic speeding tickets and insurance premium increases! Woohoo! :rolleyes:
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You know, you could actually automate some speeding tickets with a system like this using a relative few number of cameras. If they get from point A to point B quicker than would be possible going the speed limit, you could ticket them.

This wouldn't work in every scenario, and obviously people can speed and still take forever to get between two points for various reasons like stopping or whatever, but it would be extra revenue courtesy of Big Brother!
 
If they do this it's our fault. God damn bastards! Why are so many people dead set on destroying the world?
 
NKDietrich said:
You know, you could actually automate some speeding tickets with a system like this using a relative few number of cameras. If they get from point A to point B quicker than would be possible going the speed limit, you could ticket them.

This wouldn't work in every scenario, and obviously people can speed and still take forever to get between two points for various reasons like stopping or whatever, but it would be extra revenue courtesy of Big Brother!
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Speeding isn't illegal or worth a citation in all situations.
 
don't they use these already? i think i saw this system being used on parking wars. Whenever they get a hit for outstanding tickets, they boot the car.
 
Public roads are just that. Public.

You are allowed to drive on them because the government says you can. The plates you put on your vehicle is what is required to drive on public roads.

I don't see what the problem is here.
 
Mchart said:
Public roads are just that. Public.

You are allowed to drive on them because the government says you can. The plates you put on your vehicle is what is required to drive on public roads.

I don't see what the problem is here.
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I'm allow to drive on them BECAUSE I PAY TAXES TO HAVE THEM BUILT AND MAINTAINED, thank you. :)
 
NKDietrich said:
You know, you could actually automate some speeding tickets with a system like this using a relative few number of cameras. If they get from point A to point B quicker than would be possible going the speed limit, you could ticket them.

This wouldn't work in every scenario, and obviously people can speed and still take forever to get between two points for various reasons like stopping or whatever, but it would be extra revenue courtesy of Big Brother!
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Already done on some toll roads between booths.
 
I'm with McHart. Public roads are public. There is no privacy there. If you want to not be tracked by the government, then don't use things that the government made.
 
evilsofa said:
I'm with McHart. Public roads are public. There is no privacy there. If you want to not be tracked by the government, then don't use things that the government made.
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People don't want to be tracked and profiled, that's all.
 
reminds me old school spring licensing plate that looks like normal license plate while stopped, but when you drive the spring throws it back and it points downward so in such case few will actually get out without getting ticket if it was based on scanner, not sure if they'll be charged since they've license plate just loose.
 
Mchart said:
Public roads are just that. Public.

You are allowed to drive on them because the government says you can. The plates you put on your vehicle is what is required to drive on public roads.

I don't see what the problem is here.
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...trololo? With that logic any excuse could be used while walking down any street to frisk you. Ah hell, you're walking on the sidewalk? Well, since you're walking on public sidewalk, might as well give you a cavity search since you might be smuggling narcotics... :rolleyes:
 
evilsofa said:
I'm with McHart. Public roads are public. There is no privacy there. If you want to not be tracked by the government, then don't use things that the government made.
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Please read this document...then read it again, when you think you understand it, read it at least two more times, and let some of those fancy words sink in...
 
This could actually be a very useful tool for infrastructure planning. Too bad the people who could really use it will never see it.
 
TheWeazmeister said:
Please read this document...then read it again, when you think you understand it, read it at least two more times, and let some of those fancy words sink in...
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And I'll turn this right back onto you: quote me the part of the Constitution that covers privacy rights.
 
evilsofa said:
I'm with McHart. Public roads are public. There is no privacy there. If you want to not be tracked by the government, then don't use things that the government made.
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By this logic the government should be allowed to track you via gps or w/e just about anywhere as long as they turn it off when you are somewhere or on something the government did not make. It should also be mentioned that the government is elected by and represents us. Those roads were paid for and maintained by you and I.
 
Mchart said:
Public roads are just that. Public.

You are allowed to drive on them because the government says you can. The plates you put on your vehicle is what is required to drive on public roads.

I don't see what the problem is here.
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The problem is a non-insignificant part of the public WILL see this as a problem. You do realize WE are the government right? All power stems from us, ultimately. If we as a people decide that we do not want ubiquitous monitoring everywhere, it wil be banned. it is really that simple. The governent is US, citizen, you do yourself a disservice thinking otherwise.
 
So, when did they thaw out old Hitler?

Wait til Big-Bro wants to know what you are doing inside your house/ backyard and we'll see how many of you "public equals no rights" or "what do you have to hide" people bitch and moan on why you have no more rights.

All_seeing_eye_USD_bigger.jpg


You can only chip away at freedom so much until it is all gone.
 
evilsofa said:
I'm with McHart. Public roads are public. There is no privacy there. If you want to not be tracked by the government, then don't use things that the government made.
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Public means owned by everyone, not owned by the government.

Once you start thinking "oh, its government made I can't do anything about it" is when you lose your say.

If the people who pay the government, ie. us, put up a stand, then they won't be able to do this.
 
ninjaturtle said:
Wasn't there some homemade tricks to defeat automated cams that worked.
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No. Thus far the only way to beat cameras is to be able to block-out your plate (almost) completely and that would be quite enough to get you pulled over. Even traveling at 350+ MPH wont save you from these kinds of cameras.
 
ninjaturtle said:
So, when did they thaw out old Hitler?

Wait til Big-Bro wants to know what you are doing inside your house/ backyard and we'll see how many of you "public equals no rights" or "what do you have to hide" people bitch and moan on why you have no more rights.

All_seeing_eye_USD_bigger.jpg


You can only chip away at freedom so much until it is all gone.
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This.

They want to spy on us online, and now they're also wanting to spy on us (more) in real life. Soon we'll have to stay in our basements for privacy and they just have to pass a law to have cameras in every house and if they stop getting signal they send the police. I could totally see this happen. Basically a law stating that every citizen has to be on camera at all times, or some BS like that.

People will just have to find clever ways to screw with this technology. Maybe there will be ways to completely crash the system, like fake license plate with special characters. :D Though they'll probably make it very illegal to try to tamper with it.
 
I originally meant "public roads" when I talked about using things the government made, but now, seeing people wanting to hide their license plate numbers, I'm wondering if the responses would change if I meant "license plates".

Thinking about that led me to the Driver's Privacy Protection Act, which was passed in 1994 in response to people being harassed or even killed when state DMVs released personal info attached to license plates.
 
evilsofa said:
And I'll turn this right back onto you: quote me the part of the Constitution that covers privacy rights.
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Okie dokie. I guess you missed the point. Your privacy rights are addressed specifically in the Bill of Rights, which is found on that same page, you're welcome to go to the . The Constitution sets the ideals of our "more perfect union."

Hence, the idea that because it's a road provided for by tax dollars does NOT in any way shape for form allow for Habeas Corpus to be set aside.

The most frequently quoted statement by a Supreme Court justice on the subject of privacy from Justice Brandeis in Olmstead v. U. S. (1928):

"The makers of our Constitution understood the need to secure conditions favorable to the pursuit of happiness, and the protections guaranteed by this are much broader in scope, and include the right to life and an inviolate personality -- the right to be left alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men. The principle underlying the Fourth and Fifth Amendments is protection against invasions of the sanctities of a man's home and privacies of life. This is a recognition of the significance of man's spiritual nature, his feelings, and his intellect."
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It's really depressing to see people actually trying to justify increasing warrantless government surveillance just because it happens to occur in a public space.

If we don't crack down on that kind of crap with laws and court decisions, then the only limitation is what technology allows. And technology allows more every day. Eventually it won't just be license plate recognition, it'll be facial recognition. Then it will be the ability to parse everything you say looking for key words. These aren't science fiction concepts. That stuff can almost be done today. But hey, as long as it only happens when you leave your house or go on the Internet, it's okay right? So then government apologists like evilsofa pop out and say "If you have nothing to hide, then why worry?"

Just knowing you are being constantly observed, tagged, and recorded in some database for all eternity is oppressive as hell even if you never get in any legal trouble because of it. There is value in privacy for its own sake.
 
My biggest problem with this, is that the possible abuses far outweigh the potential benefits. Like others have said, it's crazy how much information is already generated as we go through life. We really don't need any more data collection on citizens.

But, the absolute biggest problem with this i have already seen in this thread. People simply not thinking hard enough about this to see the downside. The old "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear."
 
VRMan said:
Next up, automatic speeding tickets and insurance premium increases! Woohoo! :rolleyes:
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Being installed in Chicago already.

I lived and got my drivers license in Michigan and drove in that state for 10 years, and in those ten years I received 1 ticket for speeding, 45 in a 35.

I've had a vehicle in the state of Illinois for just over a year and a half now, and have had over 12 parking tickets ranging from $25 to $100, 5 automated red light camera tickets, each $100, and 1 failure to yield at a railroad crossing by an officer "stinging" the spot trying to make his quota for the month.

the burning ones are the automated red light camera tickets, because Chicago has the shortest yellow lights in the COUNTRY at 2 seconds, so its literally almost unsafe in certain situations the slam the brakes just so you dont get a ticket, yet they dont care about circumstances, you crossed the line while it was yellow, $100 ticket.

That combined with the new automated speeding ticketing systems they are now currently installing, and taxes 2nd only to California, really makes me want to root up from my first home purchase, quit my job, and move back to michigan.
 
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