Audio-noob looking for advice on mult-zone receivers

[DeathbyPutz]

I don't have much experience with audio. I had a set of 2.1 computer speakers in college, and then lived in a series of places that kept me from cutting loose with the audio (apartments, historic town home, having a baby).

About 2 years ago, we bought a home and the previous owners left nearly all of their built-in/wired speakers in place (no sub). I don't own a receiver, so the speaker wires were uselessly sitting in a coil behind the tv for a while before I pulled them all through the floor into the basement to get them out of the way. I've finally gotten the go-ahead from my wife to hook all of this stuff up to something, and I quickly realized that I'm out of my depth.

Here's what I'm working with:

• 5 Sony SS-MSP1 Speakers (1 mounted in each of the corners of my family room, and a 5th (center channel) not mounted)
• 2 Bose outdoor speakers (they look like Bose 151 SE, but the BOSE logo is horizontal... probably an older model) on my deck
  
• 4 Built-in flat wall speakers (haven't popped the grills off to see what they are) on various walls in the basement

Ideally, I'd like to hook up all of these speakers to a single receiver with 3 zones:

• Surround setup for the family room - This will need some setup/tweaking, since the 4 corners of the room are somewhat wonky angles for a surround setup due to the TV being in one of those corners.
  
• A stereo zone for outside
• A stereo zone for the basement - separate from the outside zone, since it is usually where the kids go during a party, and they don't enjoy Sinatra as much as the adults.

It looks like just about every 7.1/7.2 receiver seems to support 2 zones, and that I'll have to move up to 9.1+ to get 3 - which is a pretty steep price jump. Would it be cheaper/easier to set up to just get a 7.1 receiver for the family room/outside and a 2nd cheap stereo receiver for the basement?

It would also be nice to control everything from a simple-to-use phone app if possible (to turn on some Pandora from my phone while I'm out raking leaves or whatever). As much of a Luddite as I am about this audio stuff, my wife is much worse... so setting this all up and having it "just work" is very important.

I've seen mixed reviews on just about every brand, and I don't really have any personal experience with any of them.

A couple receivers that I've been looking at:

• Yamaha RX-V679 - older version of the RX-V681, but seems significantly cheaper if it's in stock.
  
• Denon AVR-4200 - one of the only 7-channel receivers that I've seen that supports 3 zones

I don't think that my wife would be too happy with me spending more than around $500, so I might just be writing off the basement as an option and come back to it later with a second, cheaper receiver.

As far as the inputs, I've got a chromebox flashed with OpenElec running my HTPC front-end currently, and the server in my signature hosting all my media. I have ethernet run to my entertainment center, so WiFi isn't required. I also currently use my TV's built-in tuner to get about 10 720p and 60 480p live channels via the unfiltered cable coming to my house for free, while I work on getting a whole-home PVR set up through my media server computer.

I'll take any advice that I can get, especially if I'm looking at this whole thing from the wrong perspective.

 

[sharknice]

It seems more like a 2 receiver setup. One for the family room and one for the basement. You could use Zone 2 on either of those for the outside speakers.

With the Yamaha RX-V679 you linked you can supposedly have multiple of them networked and play the same thing through both of them as well as use a phone app and stuff.

 

[DeathbyPutz]

I don't think that I'd get a full surround receiver for the basement, since those speakers are placed to provide coverage of the whole oddly-shaped space; however, the ability to network multiple receivers is intriguing. I didn't even know that was an option.

 

[Schro]

I believe the Denon lines also support "party mode" which lets you synch up multiple receivers to play the same content.

 

[DeathbyPutz]

I believe the Denon lines also support "party mode" which lets you synch up multiple receivers to play the same content.

I thought that "party mode" was just the receiver sending the same source to all zones (not sending coordinating multiple receivers), at least that's the way Yamaha's version of "party mode" is described.

Regardless, I don't really need my basement speakers to be synced up with my family room or exterior. I was just trying to save money, if a single receiver for all 3 zones would be cheaper than one for the family room/exterior and a separate one for the basement. It looks like it won't save me any money or headaches, so I'll look for a 7.1 and a simple/cheap stereo receiver.

I might try to get them both from the same brand, if they're both controllable via phone apps, that way I can simplify the controls for my wife.

 

[jevans64]

I don't know much about Yamaha receivers but have been buying the Denon flagships for 20 years. My current AVR is the Denon AVR X7200WA of which the X4200WA is a member of and two steps down. The X4300H and X6300H are now out and the X4200W and X5200W are heavily discounted now, which makes them excellent options. IMO, Audyssey room correction, specifically MultiEQ XT32, is better than YAPO. You'll get a full set of pre-outs on the Denon and Atmos/DTS:X up to 9 speakers with an additional 2-channel amp. A 2-channel amp will be required for the 3rd zone, so make sure there is an RCA run for that zone instead of speaker wire. Personally, I would just run RCA to both zones and either get powered monitors or small 2-channel amps to those zones. 16 gauge, or thinner, is usually standard in pre-wired homes and is inadequate for runs longer than 75 feet. I don't wire in-wall less than 12-guage because it will probably be in that wall for a LONG time, but contractors/builders take huge shortcuts in this area of construction.

1st. Check to see of you can fish RCA cable to a suitable area to place a small 2-channel amp OR wall-mounted powered speaker. Shouldn't be hard to tap into the existing speaker wire and even easier if there is a media closet in which to place the amps in. If you have a media closet, then a distribution amp is the easiest way to go. Home Theater Direct has their bridgeable 12-channel DMA-1240 for $700, which will power up to 6 zones from a single AVR Zone pre-out. Emotiva, Crown, and Dayton have compact 2-channel amps if you want to go that route but will end up costing about the same as a single distribution amp.

You can check Accessories4Less to see if there are any deals to be had on a refurbished receiver but that comes with a certain risk and just about requires the purchase of an additional extended warranty since refurbs only get one year. A4L is currently $640 + $109 for a 5-year Leaf warranty, which is only a $50 savings over a new unit. A refurb X4200W is usually around $550 from them and their Leaf warranty has doubled in cost over the past few years.

 

[DeathbyPutz]

I don't know much about Yamaha receivers but have been buying the Denon flagships for 20 years. My current AVR is the Denon AVR X7200WA of which the X4200WA is a member of and two steps down. The X4300H and X6300H are now out and the X4200W and X5200W are heavily discounted now, which makes them excellent options. IMO, Audyssey room correction, specifically MultiEQ XT32, is better than YAPO. You'll get a full set of pre-outs on the Denon and Atmos/DTS:X up to 9 speakers with an additional 2-channel amp. A 2-channel amp will be required for the 3rd zone, so make sure there is an RCA run for that zone instead of speaker wire. Personally, I would just run RCA to both zones and either get powered monitors or small 2-channel amps to those zones. 16 gauge, or thinner, is usually standard in pre-wired homes and is inadequate for runs longer than 75 feet. I don't wire in-wall less than 12-guage because it will probably be in that wall for a LONG time, but contractors/builders take huge shortcuts in this area of construction.

1st. Check to see of you can fish RCA cable to a suitable area to place a small 2-channel amp OR wall-mounted powered speaker. Shouldn't be hard to tap into the existing speaker wire and even easier if there is a media closet in which to place the amps in. If you have a media closet, then a distribution amp is the easiest way to go. Home Theater Direct has their bridgeable 12-channel DMA-1240 for $700, which will power up to 6 zones from a single AVR Zone pre-out. Emotiva, Crown, and Dayton have compact 2-channel amps if you want to go that route but will end up costing about the same as a single distribution amp.

You can check Accessories4Less to see if there are any deals to be had on a refurbished receiver but that comes with a certain risk and just about requires the purchase of an additional extended warranty since refurbs only get one year. A4L is currently $640 + $109 for a 5-year Leaf warranty, which is only a $50 savings over a new unit. A refurb X4200W is usually around $550 from them and their Leaf warranty has doubled in cost over the past few years.

Thanks, that's some great information. I don't think that the speakers were wired by the builder (house was built in '86/'87 and the speakers/mounts are all newer than that). I'm not good at telling at a glance, but I think they're 12 guage wires. The best part of the whole set up is that the exterior speakers are literally on the outside wall of the family room, so those wires are exactly the same length as the ones running to the front-left and front-right speakers. Including the slack, I think the longest wire between the family room and exterior zone is probably 35 feet. The basement zone is a little more of a mystery, since I'm not sure exactly how those wires are run (around the exterior of the space, or accross the ceiling... and I haven't bothered trying to trace them). However, those speakers all run to an RCA panel in a built-in cabinet that happens to be about 5 feet away from (directly below) where all of the wires for the family room and exterior come together.

I've heard great things about the Denon line, so I'll have to see what I can find in my price-range. Good call on the 4200/5200 being cheaper now that the newer model is out. There might be some good black friday-esque sales on those older models this fall.

 

[Schro]

There might be some good black friday-esque sales on those older models this fall.

In my ~5 years watching the Denon prices, that's usually not the case. I've noticed the most price flexibility happens on the prior year models once the new year models are released, which typically happens in the spring/early summer time period. As the months go on, the old stock dries up leaving only the new stock available in the retail channel. The other thing that Denon does is that it has a minimum advertised/internet type of price restriction. When I got my 2112CI about 4 years ago, the internet price was running I don't remember, but something around ~650 shipped. The magic was that I called one of the retailers, and asked them to give me their "best price" on the unit, they sent me one for about $400 shipped. Basically - the only way to get the price not set by Denon from an authorized vendor (translation: one that you get a real warranty with) is to call them and ask for the best price on it. Of course, it's been about 5 years, so it's entirely possible that it doesn't work like that anymore....

Thus, if you like the 4200/5200 pricing today, buy today before they sell through them and you wait for the 4300/5300 to be last year's models....

 

[DeathbyPutz]

In my ~5 years watching the Denon prices, that's usually not the case. I've noticed the most price flexibility happens on the prior year models once the new year models are released, which typically happens in the spring/early summer time period. As the months go on, the old stock dries up leaving only the new stock available in the retail channel. The other thing that Denon does is that it has a minimum advertised/internet type of price restriction. When I got my 2112CI about 4 years ago, the internet price was running I don't remember, but something around ~650 shipped. The magic was that I called one of the retailers, and asked them to give me their "best price" on the unit, they sent me one for about $400 shipped. Basically - the only way to get the price not set by Denon from an authorized vendor (translation: one that you get a real warranty with) is to call them and ask for the best price on it. Of course, it's been about 5 years, so it's entirely possible that it doesn't work like that anymore....

Thus, if you like the 4200/5200 pricing today, buy today before they sell through them and you wait for the 4300/5300 to be last year's models....

Thanks. This is definitely not a sector in the market or brand that I have any experience with, so I appreciate your insight.

 

[DeathbyPutz]

I have been buying the Denon flagships for 20 years.

What are your thoughts on the S line? It seems like the AVR-S910W has just about everything that I need. I don't foresee myself needing the power of the X4200W.

 

[Schro]

What are your thoughts on the S line? It seems like the AVR-S910W has just about everything that I need. I don't foresee myself needing the power of the X4200W.

I haven't looked at the current comparisons, but there's usually a thread over at the AVS forums for each Denon model year that explicitly states the differences between the models (i.e. Go from the 710W to the 910W and you get <things>).

The two things that I would suggest looking at (since you've probably looked at the basics) on the differences is the type of Audyssey room correction that's included in both (looks like Bronze on the 910W and Platinum on the 4200), and whether an extra year of warranty is worth it to you or not (I believe the S series runs 2 years and the X series runs 3 years).

 

[DeathbyPutz]

I haven't looked at the current comparisons, but there's usually a thread over at the AVS forums for each Denon model year that explicitly states the differences between the models (i.e. Go from the 710W to the 910W and you get <things>).

The two things that I would suggest looking at (since you've probably looked at the basics) on the differences is the type of Audyssey room correction that's included in both (looks like Bronze on the 910W and Platinum on the 4200), and whether an extra year of warranty is worth it to you or not (I believe the S series runs 2 years and the X series runs 3 years).

Yeah, I found that thread, and it's a great comparison of the different models. You're right about the warranty difference (2 and 3 years).

The 910 has Audyssey MultEQ, and the 4200 comes with Audyssey MultEQ XT32. I honestly don't have the greatest quality speakers, so I don't know if it's going to make much of a difference to not have the top-end room correction. Is there a huge difference?

 

[jevans64]

Yeah, I found that thread, and it's a great comparison of the different models. You're right about the warranty difference (2 and 3 years).

The 910 has Audyssey MultEQ, and the 4200 comes with Audyssey MultEQ XT32. I honestly don't have the greatest quality speakers, so I don't know if it's going to make much of a difference to not have the top-end room correction. Is there a huge difference?

Yep. You get an additional year of warranty with the X series but nothing a SquareTrade extended can't take care of. Audyssey is a different matter. The main difference between the different versions of Audyssey is the number of mic sampling positions and the filter resolution. Being able to independently EQ my two subs is worth the additional cost alone. One sub to EQ, not so much. You get 6 sampling positions with MultEQ, which is good enough for all possible seating positions. Filter resolution is only 2x for MultEQ but 512x for XT32. MultEQ XT32 allow the use of the Pro kit ( $500 to $750 ), which is computer-based hardware/software. At that point, I'd consider better alternatives, like Dirac room correction.

The X4200W is going to have better build quality but only the X7200W/X6300H are built in Japan, if that makes a difference.

 

[DeathbyPutz]

Yep. You get an additional year of warranty with the X series but nothing a SquareTrade extended can't take care of. Audyssey is a different matter. The main difference between the different versions of Audyssey is the number of mic sampling positions and the filter resolution. Being able to independently EQ my two subs is worth the additional cost alone. One sub to EQ, not so much. You get 6 sampling positions with MultEQ, which is good enough for all possible seating positions. Filter resolution is only 2x for MultEQ but 512x for XT32. MultEQ XT32 allow the use of the Pro kit ( $500 to $750 ), which is computer-based hardware/software. At that point, I'd consider better alternatives, like Dirac room correction.

The X4200W is going to have better build quality but only the X7200W/X6300H are built in Japan, if that makes a difference.

That helps, thanks. Since I currently have no sub and only plan to get 1, I'll probably be fine with the regular MultiEQ room correction. Honestly, the 910 is probably more than I need still, since I will most likely only scratch the surface of the features. The computer enthusiast in me is screaming to buy something like the 4200 to get high-end features for a good price, but the realist in me is telling me that it would all go to waste and that I should save the $250 and put it toward the sub and something to power the basement.

 

[DeathbyPutz]

I decided that I can't ignore my [H] nature, and I'm pulling the trigger on a x4200w. Thanks for the help everyone.