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ATI's thoughts on Shader Model 3.0

^eMpTy^ said:
As to what ATi is doing wrong: Not providing a down-clocked 16 pipe part to compete with the GT...
Click to expand...

That will be out shortly I beleive....the apptly named X800 GT. Although all you have to do it seems is buy a VIVO x800pro and flash the bios to an XT PE.....apparantley works a treat and then becomes a fully fledged 6800 series killer ;)
 
tranCendenZ said:
When examining the charts, note that X800 cards fall under the "2.0B" category and 6800 cards fall under the "3.0" category.
Click to expand...

Why bring up something that wasn't questioned? More FUD?

Thanks for the link... doesn't answer the question completely, but thanks.
 
Tigerblade said:
That will be out shortly I beleive....the apptly named X800 GT. Although all you have to do it seems is buy a VIVO x800pro and flash the bios to an XT PE.....apparantley works a treat and then becomes a fully fledged 6800 series killer ;)
Click to expand...

have fun with that voided warranty...and if they can barely supply the Pros, can't even get the XTPE out the door...I'm sure the X800GT will be out in oh about a year or so...
 
R1ckCa1n said:
That is quite the change from all the hype you have produced over the 1.2 patch and how great SM3.0 will be for Far Cry as far as IQ and speed.
Click to expand...

Thats not a change at all. The 6800's DO benefit from SM 3.0 in Far Cry and they WILL have HDR in the 1.3 patch which wont be supported by the X800's.

Other then HDR, Crytek isn't doing anything in terms of IQ enhancements using SM 3.0 so i dont guess i would be hyping something that wasn't ever going to be there now would i.

The 1.2 patch is also not finished. The performance could be completely different on the 6800's and X800's after its re-released. Especially if nVidia got pissed off enough at Crytek.

Everyone on the ATI side is hyping 3Dc like its going to bring some huge performance increase and in reality it probably wont bring much of a performance increase in Far Cry at all. It will be more of an IQ enhancement then a performance enhancement i'd say. And DXT5 brings nearly the same IQ enhancement. In fact, you can't tell the difference unless you take pics and post them side by side and look for a minor difference. Definitely not something you can possibly notice in-game.

Tigerblade said:
That will be out shortly I beleive....the apptly named X800 GT. Although all you have to do it seems is buy a VIVO x800pro and flash the bios to an XT PE.....apparantley works a treat and then becomes a fully fledged 6800 series killer
Click to expand...

It will be out shortly? How short is shortly? One, two, three months? ATI can't even get out their top of the line X800XT PE.

By the time they get anything out everyone will already own a 6800 GT and playing DOOM3.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
See, this is exactly what this forum (acutally a few 50 plus a day posters) is creating. I had a 9800ProXT and went to the X800XT-PE and saw my performace DOUBLE. How do you say it is not worth the money? They offer a ton of new features over the 9700 core. Because you buy into all the hype of this forum (acutally a few 50 plus a day posters), you are blinded by the fact this old core is winning almost every benchmark?
Click to expand...

To me it isnt worth it in anyway shape or form...if I wanted a 9800 I would have bought one for $299 or whatever they go for now...I refuse to pay $500 for a 9800 pro with added texture compression and a AA method that only works at 60FPS. I have a problem with buying old tech no matter how fast it may be. But then agian thats just me.


Yes the NV40 was a HUGE product update for Nvidia, but there's more smoke and mirrors than fact to the product. You'd think people would have learned by the FX series....
Click to expand...


Is this supposed to be a hint that Nvidia is cheating again....gimme a break you can do better than man...if nayone is useing smoke and mirrors around here its ATi with their "true" trylinear BS that when disabled drops your performance by what 20% or more?
 
Tigerblade said:
That will be out shortly I beleive....the apptly named X800 GT. Although all you have to do it seems is buy a VIVO x800pro and flash the bios to an XT PE.....apparantley works a treat and then becomes a fully fledged 6800 series killer ;)
Click to expand...

I would honestly like you to show me where my 6800U is getting "killed" by an x800. I have read numerous reviews and found the 2 series to be evenly matched.


On a side note, not everyone buying these cards will be upgrading by years end. I bought this card as the final piece to this rig. I will build another rig before i touch this one again. I bought this card for the performance and featureset.
 
Visable-assassin said:
Is this supposed to be a hint that Nvidia is cheating again....gimme a break you can do better than man...if nayone is useing smoke and mirrors around here its ATi with their "true" trylinear BS that when disabled drops your performance by what 20% or more?
Click to expand...

LOL! In no way am I'm implying that...... I'm just saying soon enough the facts will be reveild and we will see what exactly the value/implications/gains are for the current class cards.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
LOL! In no way am I'm implying that...... I'm just saying soon enough the facts will be reveild and we will see what exactly the value/implications/gains are for the current class cards.
Click to expand...

You keep alluding to some new information coming out...I think you need to shit or get off the pot here...if you think you know something we don't then say so...don't go play the I know something you don't know game...

And you were totally implying that...try to keep in mind that the FX and the 6800 are two completely different cards and the failures of one do not apply to the other...
 
Everyone's gotta calm down for a few minutes. There's nothing but "ooh, ATI can't even get their flagship card out the door..", "NVIDIA's smoking ATI in Doom3.." blah blah blah and bashing this and bashing that lately. For new videocards, go with what YOU want (provided you can find the card LOL) I'm not an ATI fanboy, nor am I an NVIDIA lover. I've owned plenty of both products, BUT you have to admit, it's getting sickening to hear all these people who don't know jack about anything and just jumping on the bandwagon of the side who's "latest" benches are better. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, cuz I know you all have your reasons, but seriously.. ugh :rolleyes:

I see tons of people who were all pro-ATI and anti-NVIDIA a few weeks ago and a few benches come out showing that NVIDIA does a better job in some areas. All those people who were on ATI's side before bashing NVIDIA are now reversing your opinions and saying "yeah, go with the 6800GT, it's the best". No doubt each card has its advantages.. so why are people so focused on one area that a card excels in? To each his/her own, hmm? By the way.. please don't flame me ;) I just had to get this out because it's daaamn annoying.. there's some people here (I think you know who you are) who are so bent on making everyone see why one card is better (even though they know each will perform "better" in different scenarios). Ah well..

I'm sure there's some of you out there who agree with me.. heh, *sigh* even I'm still confused about which to get. Initially I was gonna get an X800 XT-PE, then wanted to get the 6800 GT, now I'm back to wanting an XT-PE :p Anyone want to tell me that this is a dumb choice? :eek:
 
You people crack me up, quoting all these specs like your in the know and actually have a clue as to what it all means in IQ and preformance terms. If its a bigger number it HAS to be better, thats the way it works right?
 
101998 said:
You people crack me up, quoting all these specs like your in the know and actually have a clue as to what it all means in IQ and preformance terms. If its a bigger number it HAS to be better, thats the way it works right?
Click to expand...

thats why intel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AMD :rolleyes:
 
Tareon said:
I'm sure there's some of you out there who agree with me.. heh, *sigh* even I'm still confused about which to get. Initially I was gonna get an X800 XT-PE, then wanted to get the 6800 GT, now I'm back to wanting an XT-PE :p Anyone want to tell me that this is a dumb choice? :eek:
Click to expand...

No, but you might want to change your sig from X800XT PE (soon) to X800XT PE (someday). :)

Sorry, i couldn't resist. :p
 
burningrave101 said:
No, but you might want to change your sig from X800XT PE (soon) to X800XT PE (someday). :)

Sorry, i couldn't resist. :p
Click to expand...

Haha :D no no, I agree with you.. I'll eventually get it
 
Tigerblade said:
That will be out shortly I beleive....the apptly named X800 GT. Although all you have to do it seems is buy a VIVO x800pro and flash the bios to an XT PE.....apparantley works a treat and then becomes a fully fledged 6800 series killer ;)
Click to expand...

Lets not forget that the x800pro VIVO is $450msrp and not $400. It's hard to call it a 6800GT killer with a $50 price tag increase.

with that being said, an earlier post was typed out bitching about being annoyed with these discussions. Last time I checked this was a video cards forum. There are ATI and nVidia specific forums to address each individually, and this main forum to address them both. If you are annoyed, please don't bother reading, but above all, please don't bother posting.

I for one am pretty dissatistied with the product availablility on both ends (nvidia and ati) and seriously wish I had either one so I could intelligently take part in some of these conversations. Unfortunately, GDDR3 is some "blue diamond" like substance that is hard to manufacture, so we are all left standing in the dust with a "pre-order" slip in our hands, a dream of beautiful graphics in our hearts and on our minds, and a promise of a better tomorrow.
 
Tareon said:
I'm sure there's some of you out there who agree with me.. heh, *sigh* even I'm still confused about which to get. Initially I was gonna get an X800 XT-PE, then wanted to get the 6800 GT, now I'm back to wanting an XT-PE :p Anyone want to tell me that this is a dumb choice? :eek:
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. Anyone who is biased with one side is only cheating yourself and you know who you are. :D
 
DigitalEmperor said:
Lets not forget that the x800pro VIVO is $450msrp and not $400. It's hard to call it a 6800GT killer with a $50 price tag increase.

with that being said, an earlier post was typed out bitching about being annoyed with these discussions. Last time I checked this was a video cards forum. There are ATI and nVidia specific forums to address each individually, and this main forum to address them both. If you are annoyed, please don't bother reading, but above all, please don't bother posting.

I for one am pretty dissatistied with the product availablility on both ends (nvidia and ati) and seriously wish I had either one so I could intelligently take part in some of these conversations. Unfortunately, GDDR3 is some "blue diamond" like substance that is hard to manufacture, so we are all left standing in the dust with a "pre-order" slip in our hands, a dream of beautiful graphics in our hearts and on our minds, and a promise of a better tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I concur. Call me crazy but I thought the whole point of this forum was to discuss video cards...so if you're tired of reading it, then don't...no one is forcing you to...or atleast I hope not...if you are being forced to read this by some unknown assailant post your address and I'll call the police and tell them to go to your house and help you out...
 
People please you must understand that there is nothing new with new ati cards but with more pipes and more mghz. You ati fans will never understand what the diference is with my new nvidia card. Everything is different with it, games look, feel, and play alot different then the ati. You must see the games in motion with nvidia, everything feels more rendered and more real, and screen shots will never prove that. Why buy a $500 product that offers nothing new in realism. Like I said in my previous posts I had ati 9800 before I got the nvidia 6800 ultra and I am not bias at all. I am just saying which new product is better right now. Right now im playing my favorite game BF.V. and it looks and feels like another game with nvidia, and again screen shots cant show this, it must be felt.
 
Tigerblade said:
That will be out shortly I beleive....the apptly named X800 GT. Although all you have to do it seems is buy a VIVO x800pro and flash the bios to an XT PE.....apparantley works a treat and then becomes a fully fledged 6800 series killer ;)
Click to expand...

Yeh pretty sweet, you pay $50 extra for the 12-pipe x800pro vivo and have to flash it, voiding your warranty, and if the flash doesn't work and has artifacting the card gets stuck at 16 pipes and you can't flash it back to 12, making your $450 purchase worth nil. Then you have to overclock it on top of that.

No thanks, get the 6800GT, 16 pipes out of the box, a simple overclock with no mods at all and you have a 6800 Ultra, for $50 less. Plus you get way more features than the x800pro, too. ATI still doesn't have anything that can match the 6800GT.
 
As far as ATi to follow NVs 16/32fp when they put out a sm3.0 card, I doubt it. I'll bet it'll be 24/32fp since their cards are fast enough with 24fp they'd have no use for 16fp. Here in Canuckia land, x800pro are about all you can get, with a handful of GTs showing up but so far with prices I've seen the pro is on avg 50 cheaper. 6800U is just as rare here as the XTPE. Consider they both use the same ram supplier I can't see either company is going to have more than a handful of cards to dribble down the pipe at any time. And what about the nv rumour of very low yeilds on ultra gpu's? I did read it once someplace but havent heard much since so I can't say its much more than rumour.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
LOL! In no way am I'm implying that...... I'm just saying soon enough the facts will be reveild and we will see what exactly the value/implications/gains are for the current class cards.
Click to expand...


Well that is what it looks like your saying.
Laugh all you want everytime I see you post you sure seem like your hinting at some new data that is gonna come out and show ATi smokin NV or some shit...then with your reference to the FX and the the 6800 honestly it looks like you full heartedly believe they are once again cheating :rolleyes:
So as stated before if you know something that is gonna make ATi look like gods...spit it out

Tigerblade said:
That will be out shortly I beleive....the apptly named X800 GT. Although all you have to do it seems is buy a VIVO x800pro and flash the bios to an XT PE.....apparantley works a treat and then becomes a fully fledged 6800 series killer ;)
Click to expand...


Congrats you can flasht he BIOS on a card, that may work...if it doesnt Im sure your one of those people that would just RMA it for being defective and get another one.....no tahnx modding my card to something that isnt 100% 100% of the time...I wont gamble with that...Ill take the GT thank you
 
tranCendenZ said:
Do you find it good that ATI is discouraging developers from using more advanced graphical features because the X800 is behind in technology?
Click to expand...

just got in on this thread but damn you are right.
could not have said it better myself.
ATI should encourage developers like matches to an arsonist.
Otherwise they end up being burnt themselves... :eek:
 
Myrdhinn said:
As far as ATi to follow NVs 16/32fp when they put out a sm3.0 card, I doubt it. I'll bet it'll be 24/32fp since their cards are fast enough with 24fp they'd have no use for 16fp. Here in Canuckia land, x800pro are about all you can get, with a handful of GTs showing up but so far with prices I've seen the pro is on avg 50 cheaper. 6800U is just as rare here as the XTPE. Consider they both use the same ram supplier I can't see either company is going to have more than a handful of cards to dribble down the pipe at any time. And what about the nv rumour of very low yeilds on ultra gpu's? I did read it once someplace but havent heard much since so I can't say its much more than rumour.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to see how ATi handles the FP16/FP32 question...

I doubt there are core yield problems with the Ultra since most GTs will go past Ultra levels even with the smaller GT hsf...
 
Here it is.... any new news on this?

Analysts: NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ramp Constrained by IBM

IBM Possibly Struggling to Fulfill the Orders
by Anton Shilov
05/30/2004 | 12:01 PM

Credit Suisse First Boston Corporation said Friday NVIDIA has some issues with the ramp of NVIDIA GeForce 6800-series graphics processors because of IBM’s inability to allocate a lot of manufacturing company for the graphics giant.

IBM Cannot Produce Enough GeForce 6800?

Foundry constraints continue to limit NVIDIA’s flexibility. NVIDIA is ramping two GeForce 6800 high-end parts on 300mm at IBM’s East Fishkill, New York, foundry, which continues to have limited ability to increase its wafer allocation, CSFB is reported to have said by Forbes.
 
I do not understand why someone would pay 500 dollars for a 3 year old core with no new tech on it....makes no sence..
oh well there are 2 types of people. the ones that follow.. and the ones that lead the followers....
 
Myrdhinn said:
Consider they both use the same ram supplier I can't see either company is going to have more than a handful of cards to dribble down the pipe at any time. And what about the nv rumour of very low yeilds on ultra gpu's? I did read it once someplace but havent heard much since so I can't say its much more than rumour.
Click to expand...

6800 Ultra's have been shipping from several different vendors. X800XT PE's have not. The XFX 6800u's are some of the best right now because their BIOS sets the card to 425/1200 by default.

And what you heard about low ultra GPU's is a rumor and nothing else. Hardly anyone has gotten a GT that wont overclock past Ultra core speeds. I can't see how they would have a hard time getting Ultra GPU's when most of the Ultra's are shipping past 400Mhz core.

The problem is the 1.6ns Samsung RAM modules.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I'm curious to see how ATi handles the FP16/FP32 question...

I doubt there are core yield problems with the Ultra since most GTs will go past Ultra levels even with the smaller GT hsf...
Click to expand...

True gt easily overclocks past the base ultra marks
 
Tareon said:
Everyone's gotta calm down for a few minutes. There's nothing but "ooh, ATI can't even get their flagship card out the door..", "NVIDIA's smoking ATI in Doom3.." blah blah blah and bashing this and bashing that lately. For new videocards, go with what YOU want (provided you can find the card LOL) I'm not an ATI fanboy, nor am I an NVIDIA lover. I've owned plenty of both products, BUT you have to admit, it's getting sickening to hear all these people who don't know jack about anything and just jumping on the bandwagon of the side who's "latest" benches are better. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, cuz I know you all have your reasons, but seriously.. ugh :rolleyes:

I see tons of people who were all pro-ATI and anti-NVIDIA a few weeks ago and a few benches come out showing that NVIDIA does a better job in some areas. All those people who were on ATI's side before bashing NVIDIA are now reversing your opinions and saying "yeah, go with the 6800GT, it's the best". No doubt each card has its advantages.. so why are people so focused on one area that a card excels in? To each his/her own, hmm? By the way.. please don't flame me ;) I just had to get this out because it's daaamn annoying.. there's some people here (I think you know who you are) who are so bent on making everyone see why one card is better (even though they know each will perform "better" in different scenarios). Ah well..
Click to expand...

i agree completely. BOTH Ati and Nvidia have done wrong, last time it was nvidia, nows its ATi. thats why the card matters 100%. I dont like nvidia, but i respect because of their support for LANs and the GT is a great product. heck i dont like ati either, but their AIW line was what i needed for a big project last year and ati has a bigger support for guys like omega. now im going to a GT mostly because of BFGtech. simply do you research, see what you need, and get a video card.
 
burningrave101 said:
6800 Ultra's have been shipping from several different vendors. X800XT PE's have not. The XFX 6800u's are some of the best right now because their BIOS sets the card to 425/1200 by default.

And what you heard about low ultra GPU's is a rumor and nothing else. Hardly anyone has gotten a GT that wont overclock past Ultra core speeds. I can't see how they would have a hard time getting Ultra GPU's when most of the Ultra's are shipping past 400Mhz core.

The problem is the 1.6ns Samsung RAM modules.
Click to expand...

also outside of visiontek (which hasnt still answered me!) where are the x800pros. most sites have them running in the high 400s or/and out of stock. i have a friend who wants one (does not want a 6800 GT) and he is limited to 400 dollars.
 
avatar_of_might said:
also outside of visiontek (which hasnt still answered me!) where are the x800pros. most sites have them running in the high 400s or/and out of stock. i have a friend who wants one (does not want a 6800 GT) and he is limited to 400 dollars.
Click to expand...

Do your friend a favor and talk him out of that decision...I can't think of one single reason to buy the Pro over the GT.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Do your friend a favor and talk him out of that decision...I can't think of one single reason to buy the Pro over the GT.
Click to expand...

Maybe because he likes ATI over Nvidia....not everyone has to buy what you think they should man

DASHlT
P.S. Im getting a 6800GT so dont start with your fanboy BS
 
DASHlT said:
Maybe because he likes ATI over Nvidia....not everyone has to buy what you think they should man

DASHlT
P.S. Im getting a 6800GT so dont start with your fanboy BS
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right...if he wants to buy a slower card due to brand loyalty...that's his call...I still think it would be nice of you to talk some sense into him...that's what friends are for...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
You're absolutely right...if he wants to buy a slower card due to brand loyalty...that's his call...I still think it would be nice of you to talk some sense into him...that's what friends are for...
Click to expand...


Slower on doom3?.....please man...no more fanboyism gets old.....and please dont try to prove me wrong with nvnews links no one will click on them.

DASHlT
P.S. MAN those doom3 benchmarks brought out all the fanboys..
 
Can you show me a set of benchmarks that the x800pro out performs the 6800gt consistently w/o AF?
 
DASHlT said:
Slower on doom3?.....please man...no more fanboyism gets old.....and please dont try to prove me wrong with nvnews links no one will click on them.

DASHlT
P.S. MAN those doom3 benchmarks brought out all the fanboys..
Click to expand...

Man...I'm not going to push anything on you...but the GT is faster than the Pro in every game...at every resolution...at every setting...almost without exception...and that's not me being a fanboy (which I'm not, thanks for asking), that's just the cold hard facts...look at the [H] review of the BFG GT on the front page...
 
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