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ATi What happened?

M

Molingrad

Gawd
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Messages
706
About 6 months before the 9700 came out I got big into computer gaming and bought my first video card. It was a PCI Geforce 4 MX something - nothing great but it worked well.

When I finally got the money to upgrade my computer and get a AGP card I went with the 9800. I was very happy performance wise at that time ATi was still #1 but occasionally I would get the "ATi specific problems" some games would always have issues with ATi cards but shortly after the games were released a new ATi driver was released for a quick fix.

Now Im on my third card a X800 PRO and am seeing the crown snatched from ATi by Nvidia. Still im getting problems that are only affecting ATi cards (Civ 4). It also seems that ATi has released alot of vapor ware and paper launches.

I havent been paying a whole lot of attention to whats going on in the Video Card wars but from my current take on things ATi has fallen off. Next card I get will be Nvidia.

**Im not an ATi hater, I loved ATi for the majority of the time I was in PC gaming. If im wrong please let me know - what does ATi have coming to reclaim the crown?
 
You are wrong, ATI delayed the R520 chip but they have released it as promised, chip is a lot better but cost a bit much now. i was in the simualr boat as you switching from mx420 to 9800pro to x800xl right now. I don't know what you mean "problems" civilisation 4 ran amaizing on my card, the game sucked though. The only real problem in gamesI have had was when Bf2 was released, but they quickly patched it.
 
R520 chip but they have released it as promised
Click to expand...

getting a few cards to newegg etc is NOT a launch..it will take till December till for isntance Europe can get them...last thing I checked Canadians can't even get them :)
 
Molingrad said:
**Im not an ATi hater
Click to expand...
Looks like you're a fan of ATI. Screw them. Get what's best on the market, regardless of how their logo looks.

ATI was on top with the Rage 128
Nvidia had the best with the Geforce 4 Ti
ATI reclaimed first place with the 9800
Nvidia stomped them again with the 6000 and 7000 series

Honestly, who gives a rat's ass which company has the best cards? Just buy one that suits your needs and be done with it.
 
pr0pensity said:
Looks like you're a fan of ATI. Screw them. Get what's best on the market, regardless of how their logo looks.

ATI was on top with the Rage 128
Nvidia had the best with the Geforce 4 Ti
ATI reclaimed first place with the 9800
Nvidia stomped them again with the 6000 and 7000 series

Honestly, who gives a rat's ass which company has the best cards? Just buy one that suits your needs and be done with it.
Click to expand...

thats the point im trying to find which will be best for my next card and it seems the nvidia 7000 series is king right now.
 
[EOCF] Tim said:
getting a few cards to newegg etc is NOT a launch..it will take till December till for isntance Europe can get them...last thing I checked Canadians can't even get them :)
Click to expand...

You can get them from Overclockers.co.uk in the UK.
 
ATI and Nvidia have flip flopped. I expect AMD, and intel to start flip flopping before too long, thats just the way the business plays itself out, and ultimately, it benefits us - the consumers.
 
Nothing "happend"...
ATI had the lead with the 9700/9800's but before that, NVIDA was leading ever since the Geforce 256...
Most "fans" don't remember this as they are either to young to remember or have very bad memory...

Terra - If anything, we are back to normal ;)
 
Terra said:
Nothing "happend"...
ATI had the lead with the 9700/9800's but before that, NVIDA was leading ever since the Geforce 256...
Most "fans" don't remember this as they are either to young to remember or have very bad memory...

Terra - If anything, we are back to normal ;)
Click to expand...

I remember, and I was young ! :D I used my geforce 2 mx 400 for years. I even bought another one when I made the jump to AGP.
 
I would say if your a pure gamer Nvidia is the best buy . But if you want to use the full feature set. ATI X1800's is the way to go . Since I do Video editting and the like. ATI has a large lead in this department.
 
Terra said:
Nothing "happend"...
ATI had the lead with the 9700/9800's but before that, NVIDA was leading ever since the Geforce 256...
Most "fans" don't remember this as they are either to young to remember or have very bad memory...

Terra - If anything, we are back to normal ;)
Click to expand...

Actually to get the whole story it goes like this:

S3 Virge 3d decellerator (Mechwarrior only game to ever support this)
Rendition Verite 3d Accelerator (no significant game support)
3dFX Voodoo 1 (not as technically capable as the Rendition, but faster, and a huge change in 3d gaming with GLQuake)
Matrox M3D - the main vendor of the PowerVR chip - with later driver updates it even competed with the Voodoo2
nVidia Riva 128 - for a short time before the Voodoo2 came out it was king
3dFX Voodoo 2 vs nVida TNT - the Voodoo2 was faster (esp in SLI) the TNT did 32bit color
ATI Rage 3d - in the form of the rare dual GPU Rage Fury Maxx it was the fastest for about a week otherwise it basically was a 2d only card
3dFX Voodoo 3 vs nVidia TNT2 - the TNT2 was faster, and realy the first time nVidia was the better choise.
nVidia GeForce 256 - esp the DDR version really had no competition
ATI Radeon - better color than the GeForce, but slower
3dFX Voodoo 4/5 - all dissapointments

Then from here we start getting into the GeForce 2/3/4 and the Radeon 8500 then finally ATI comes out with the 9700 and stands out for a time, nVidia falls on it's face with the FX series, but comes back strong with the 6000 series, etc. But that is the old school stuff.

==>Lazn
 
$BangforThe$ said:
I would say if your a pure gamer Nvidia is the best buy . But if you want to use the full feature set. ATI X1800's is the way to go . Since I do Video editting and the like. ATI has a large lead in this department.
Click to expand...
You mean their GPU assisted encoding? I thought all that stuff was still beta and didn't even include the audio stream yet.

For HTPC work NV is really popular right now for all of their spiffy video features.
 
Very nice little history lesson, couldn't have put it together better myself.

I'd like to add in that the Geforce2 did have a bit of competition before the Radeon started to really pick up steam (when they changed their naming and had the 7500 higher clocked version) and that was the Kyro2. Limited success due to lack of hardware T&L. The Kyro2 was every bit as fast as a Geforce2 in T&L games so long as you had a 600mhz+ cpu. The lack of hardware T&L only affected one game to my knowledge, BF1942.

I had one running with a Duron 850, and it made for a very competant gaming rig at the time, not shabby at all considering I preordered it (so paid more than I really should have) and it still cost less than a Geforce2 MX 400.

The history of video cards is alot like the history of consoles, two big competators, and a few smaller ones on the fringe, but people only ever think of or remember the current heavy weights.
Atari vs Intellivision (with colecovision and others on the side)
Nintendo vs Sega (with Turbo Graphix, Atari Jaguar, and others)
Sony vs Microsoft (with Nintendo)

Pay attention to the fringes, there are often some cool things hiding in there... that said, I went with a 7800GT this round :cool:
 
Molingrad said:
thats the point im trying to find which will be best for my next card and it seems the nvidia 7000 series is king right now.
Click to expand...
The x1800xt is availiable on newegg, and other online stores. If you have the money then go get , it is more futureproof then 7800gtx (read the [H] review before flaming this). As far as I know ATi plans deliver their cards to more stores n smaller quantities. if you are in US why worry that Europe does not have them? I can care less, I do not live there. For all it matters to me my local Best Buy and Comp USA has it, at $625 and $610 i can get it if i desire to.
 
Molingrad said:
When I finally got the money to upgrade my computer and get a AGP card I went with the 9800. I was very happy performance wise at that time ATi was still #1 but...
Click to expand...



You must have been dreaming .. ATI has never been #1

/flame on
 
I would claim the 9700 is one of the best video card releases in history. It reigned undisputed for nearly a year, nVidia couldn't even come close to touching it.
 
sitheris said:
You must have been dreaming .. ATI has never been #1

/flame on
Click to expand...
the 9700 release??? Plus I was reading that ATI holds a bigger portion of market than nvidia, Iam not sure if it is trur though.
 
Lazn_Work where does a ATI All in wonder stand in that any idea?

I was almost always a fan of ATI like how I like intel CPUs. Must have been due to my first real computer with an ATI All in Wonder card and a P200.

The card gave me expectations that I never found on cards I bought after that. (Yeah im cheap that was the last custom built pc I got)

I classify ati in the same category as intel though... nice stuff but cant afford it. Nvidia stuff usually drops to reasonable prices and typically offer most for the money so I end up going to nvidia and never being satisfied with the outcome.
 
Molingrad said:
what does ATi have coming to reclaim the crown?
Click to expand...

Hopefully the R580 will bring about a nice performance boost for ATi. The interesting thing with this is that by the time the R580 comes out ATi will have had a good bit of time to tweak and optimise their very versatile memory controller. It seems a lot like the sort of advantages AMD gets from having the integrated memory controller.

So tweaked memory controller + hopefully more pipes = more competitive card. The question is when and how many will be available. If ATi can get the R580 out by march in numbers that would be really nice. Dont assume that nVidia will sit around idle though, I am curious to see what they have up their sleeve.
 
air2k5 said:
the 9700 release??? Plus I was reading that ATI holds a bigger portion of market than nvidia, Iam not sure if it is trur though.
Click to expand...


Ok one good release...compared to what...pretty much *every* series nVidia has released? (sans gf 3 series ) :p
 
Erasmus354 said:
Hopefully the R580 will bring about a nice performance boost for ATi. The interesting thing with this is that by the time the R580 comes out ATi will have had a good bit of time to tweak and optimise their very versatile memory controller. It seems a lot like the sort of advantages AMD gets from having the integrated memory controller.

So tweaked memory controller + hopefully more pipes = more competitive card. The question is when and how many will be available. If ATi can get the R580 out by march in numbers that would be really nice. Dont assume that nVidia will sit around idle though, I am curious to see what they have up their sleeve.
Click to expand...


With the R580 for ati...it's going to come down to availability...and ati is having MAJOR problem supplying the demand...so if ati can get outa the hole they keep digging...well maybe the R580 will become competitive...right now if the x1800xl/xt was available ..it would be a MUCH more competitive card than what it is now...
 
sitheris said:
Ok one good release...compared to what...pretty much *every* series nVidia has released? (sans gf 3 series ) :p
Click to expand...
Ok, maybe ATI is not the best company to release stuff, it as delayed lots of crap, but face it most of the time the wait was worth it ;)
Even the r520 is better than 7800 series. I just do not see the Nvidia products being "innovative" at this point. What new features did 7800gtx bring over the 6800series? As for r520 AVIVO is already worht it, not to mention mem controller, and HDR AA
 
The problem is that the only time ATI had the best card was when they bought the design from Artx. ATI did not start out a 3D company like NVIDIA did. They were more in line with S3 or Cirrus Logic producing OEM 2d cards and embedded chips.

Right now their major problem is price and availability. Their cards cost way too much compared to a similar NVIDIA card and that's if you can find one.

NVIDIA had a problem with their FX run and ATI was able to bring a better card to market. Since then NVIDIA has released better cards and a better price and they have been available at launch.

Right now I would say that Crossfire and the X1800 line are a failure. However, the R580 sounds like it could be the card that the R520 should have been and this may turn things around for ATI. Of course they would have to be able to sell the cards in quanity at launch and at a price that matches NVIDIA.
 
air2k5 said:
Ok, maybe ATI is not the best company to release stuff, it as delayed lots of crap, but face it most of the time the wait was worth it ;)
Even the r520 is better than 7800 series. I just do not see the Nvidia products being "innovative" at this point. What new features did 7800gtx bring over the 6800series? As for r520 AVIVO is already worht it, not to mention mem controller, and HDR AA
Click to expand...


7800GTX has new AA modes...and nVidia already had purevideo...
Also it was [H]ard Launch ON TIME...
the GTX has all the newer shit the 6x00's had...

the x1x00 line has NEW shit that nVidia has already had besides HDR+AA...

So how can you go off and say nVidia hasn't been innovated?? If anything it's ati who is lacking and falling flat on there ass...
 
Defconfunk said:
I'd like to add in that the Geforce2 did have a bit of competition before the Radeon started to really pick up steam (when they changed their naming and had the 7500 higher clocked version) and that was the Kyro2.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, 2nd generation PowerVR chip. I forgot about that one. It was an evolution of the chip used in the Matrox M3D. And like the M3D was very capable, but never got any major success.

==>Lazn
 
$0;$@4eus']7800GTX has new AA modes...and nVidia already had purevideo...
Also it was [H]ard Launch ON TIME...
the GTX has all the newer shit the 6x00's had...

the x1x00 line has NEW shit that nVidia has already had besides HDR+AA...

So how can you go off and say nVidia hasn't been innovated?? If anything it's ati who is lacking and falling flat on there ass...[/QUOTE]
I forgot all about purevideo, but is it as good as avivo? (an actal question)
 
awdark said:
Lazn_Work where does a ATI All in wonder stand in that any idea?

I was almost always a fan of ATI like how I like intel CPUs. Must have been due to my first real computer with an ATI All in Wonder card and a P200.

The card gave me expectations that I never found on cards I bought after that. (Yeah im cheap that was the last custom built pc I got)

I classify ati in the same category as intel though... nice stuff but cant afford it. Nvidia stuff usually drops to reasonable prices and typically offer most for the money so I end up going to nvidia and never being satisfied with the outcome.
Click to expand...

Which All in Wonder card? ATI has built All in Wonders based on almost all of their GPU lines. So the speed of the AIW card would depend both on the GPU and the memory speed of that particular card. EG: a AIW card that is based on the Radeon 8500 would be close in performance to a Radeon 8500, while a AIW card that uses a x800xl GPU would be many times faster.

==>Lazn
 
air2k5 said:
$0;$@4eus']7800GTX has new AA modes...and nVidia already had purevideo...
Also it was [H]ard Launch ON TIME...
the GTX has all the newer shit the 6x00's had...

the x1x00 line has NEW shit that nVidia has already had besides HDR+AA...

So how can you go off and say nVidia hasn't been innovated?? If anything it's ati who is lacking and falling flat on there ass...
I forgot all about purevideo, but is it as good as avivo? (an actal question)
Click to expand...


They are about the same....no real differnence...just purevideo has been out for a while now..

I don't know much about pure video....i guess you can goto www.nVidia.com and look at it.
 
pr0pensity said:
Looks like you're a fan of ATI. Screw them. Get what's best on the market, regardless of how their logo looks.

ATI was on top with the Rage 128
Nvidia had the best with the Geforce 4 Ti
ATI reclaimed first place with the 9800
Nvidia stomped them again with the 6000 and 7000 series

Honestly, who gives a rat's ass which company has the best cards? Just buy one that suits your needs and be done with it.
Click to expand...

Finaly somebody that can be objective I agree get the one you want and who cares about brand loyalty and what everybody elsethinks
 
Pure Video is better but Avivio is free. I dont care how anyone spins it Pure Video costs money to use. The new AA modes Nvidia has can be done on ATi Hardware back to the 9000 series. None the less ATi dissapointed me with this {S}oft Launch.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Pure Video is better but Avivio is free. I dont care how anyone spins it Pure Video costs money to use. The new AA modes Nvidia has can be done on ATi Hardware back to the 9000 series. None the less ATi dissapointed me with this {S}oft Launch.
Click to expand...
How is AVIVO free? Someone is paying for that MPEG2 codec, you either have to buy a player (not sure if there is an AVIVO supported player) or it's part of the cost of your video card. That's just FUD, saying one is free and the other is not. Purevideo is a hardware programmable video accelerator that is included on all NVIDIA cards since the 6xxx series. The only cost is for the "Purevideo Enchanced" DVD software from NVIDIA.

Generally software to play DVD's is not free.
 
dagon11985 said:
ATI and Nvidia have flip flopped. I expect AMD, and intel to start flip flopping before too long, thats just the way the business plays itself out, and ultimately, it benefits us - the consumers.
Click to expand...

i agree... the gaming future will be very green indeed
 
pr0pensity said:
Looks like you're a fan of ATI. Screw them. Get what's best on the market, regardless of how their logo looks.

ATI was on top with the Rage 128
Nvidia had the best with the Geforce 4 Ti
ATI reclaimed first place with the 9800
Nvidia stomped them again with the 6000 and 7000 series

Honestly, who gives a rat's ass which company has the best cards? Just buy one that suits your needs and be done with it.
Click to expand...

nVidia didn't stomp anything with the G60. the X800XTPE and the X850XTPE were FPS ahead of the 6800 and OC ability was quite great on those. Also the IQ again was better on the ATi cards, although this is somewhat more noticeable right now on the X1800 series.
 
PRIME1 said:
How is AVIVO free? Someone is paying for that MPEG2 codec, you either have to buy a player (not sure if there is an AVIVO supported player) or it's part of the cost of your video card. That's just FUD, saying one is free and the other is not. Purevideo is a hardware programmable video accelerator that is included on all NVIDIA cards since the 6xxx series. The only cost is for the "Purevideo Enchanced" DVD software from NVIDIA.

Generally software to play DVD's is not free.
Click to expand...

Hmm...use AVIVO and WMP = free, use Purevideo and WMP = free to an extent...
 
Endurancevm said:
nVidia didn't stomp anything with the G60. the X800XTPE and the X850XTPE were FPS ahead of the 6800 and OC ability was quite great on those. Also the IQ again was better on the ATi cards, although this is somewhat more noticeable right now on the X1800 series.
Click to expand...

The only thing ATi was being stomped on was availability. Otherwise performance was pretty much even between the x800s and the 6800s.
 
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