ATi vs. Nvidia Article

[^eMpTy^]

So for the ATi slide show on the front page...and stop me if there's a thread about this already...does anyone else find it funny that all the websites ATi quoted for benchmark numbers came to the opposite conclusion that ATi did from the same numbers?

PR departments are completely useless...they don't even tackle tough issues...they just collect the evidence in their favor and pretend that all the other evidence doesn't exist.

Amazing how ATi has so much confidence in the x700xt when EVERY website worth a damn just declared the 6600GT the better card. Even ATi stronghold DriverHeaven.net conveniently exluded the 6600GT from their x700 review.

The whole situation gets a big from me...

 

[The Batman]

That's how the world works. The loosing brand of this generation will have the shittier PR, they got more to make up for.

 

[Uncle]

If you noticed on the card about Doom 3, their using Cat 4.10. How much better will the cat 4.10 be vs the beta fix 8.07. Guess I'll have to wait till next month to find out. I know for me the beta fix has improved my Farcry fps, with all the eye candy turned on, except water had to be down one notch from ultra high. With 4.09 I had to turn down 3 other items to keep my frames above 50 fps, my personal settings that I like.
By the way check this out.

Some hotfix which i downloaded 3 days ago : wxp-w2k-psychotoxic-hotfix-018185E.exe

Yesterday i downloaded this driver(same link?) : wxp-w2k-8-07-018211e.exe

Currently downloding this driver(same link?) : wxp-w2k-8-07-018380E.exe

Seems like they might be updating the beta on the fly.

 

[rancor]

If you noticed on the card about Doom 3, their using Cat 4.10. How much better will the cat 4.10 be vs the beta fix 8.07. Guess I'll have to wait till next month to find out. I know for me the beta fix has improved my Farcry fps, with all the eye candy turned on, except water had to be down one notch from ultra high. With 4.09 I had to turn down 3 other items to keep my frames above 50 fps, my personal settings that I like.
By the way check this out.

Some hotfix which i downloaded 3 days ago : wxp-w2k-psychotoxic-hotfix-018185E.exe

Yesterday i downloaded this driver(same link?) : wxp-w2k-8-07-018211e.exe

Currently downloding this driver(same link?) : wxp-w2k-8-07-018380E.exe

Seems like they might be updating the beta on the fly.

Well if you're turing down the water that will save a good deal of frames right there . In doom I noticed like 2 or 4 fps increase, not much.

 

[SnakEyez187]

Of course they are going to release something like this after Nvidia released basically the same thing, this is what PR is for

 

[rancor]

Of course they are going to release something like this after Nvidia released basically the same thing, this is what PR is for

Yeah but they aboslutely forgot to mention the x700 got trounced They should have waited for newer drivers and benchmarks at least to back up thier claims.

 

[gordon151]

So for the ATi slide show on the front page...and stop me if there's a thread about this already...does anyone else find it funny that all the websites ATi quoted for benchmark numbers came to the opposite conclusion that ATi did from the same numbers?

PR departments are completely useless...they don't even tackle tough issues...they just collect the evidence in their favor and pretend that all the other evidence doesn't exist.

Amazing how ATi has so much confidence in the x700xt when EVERY website worth a damn just declared the 6600GT the better card. Even ATi stronghold DriverHeaven.net conveniently exluded the 6600GT from their x700 review.

The whole situation gets a big from me...

6600s dont grow on trees, especially reviewers samples. Maybe they didnt have one?

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

i love all the FUD that ati is saying...what next? the x800pro beats the 6800Ultra?..talk about a crock of shit..

 

[pandora's box]

erm how long has doom 3 been out? who hasnt finished the game yet? yet again it takes ati 2-3 driver revisions to get performance up to accpetable levels.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

erm how long has doom 3 been out? who hasnt finished the game yet? yet again it takes ati 2-3 driver revisions to get performance up to accpetable levels.

talk about sad...thats what ya get with ati. bad driver support. and over all bad support for anything...

and there now making chipsets for mobo's? that will be a huge failure agaist VIA and nVidia...who wants somthing with that bad of driver support?

 

[rancor]

erm how long has doom 3 been out? who hasnt finished the game yet? yet again it takes ati 2-3 driver revisions to get performance up to accpetable levels.

Its already at acceptiable levels, just well behind nV thats all.

 

[ToyYoda03]

erm how long has doom 3 been out? who hasnt finished the game yet? yet again it takes ati 2-3 driver revisions to get performance up to accpetable levels.

Doom 3 was optimized for nvidia, im sure nvidia will do the same for HL2

 

[KayossZero]

i love all the FUD that ati is saying...what next? the x800pro beats the 6800Ultra?..talk about a crock of shit..

Yeah and I love how you come into all the HL2 threads and ATI threads "proclaiming you're a Nvidia and Doom3 fanb0y." and expect credibility . Reminds me of Badger_Sly coming in all the HL2 threads with the same mindless slogans each week, and also trying to preach to followers that the R3XX never crushed the FX series. Gotta love the crap people are willing to say to defend the companies they love.

Back to the topic, who seriously cares? Nvidia has done tons of this crap before, anyone remember the Kyro2 slides? The fact of the matter is all companies have and use PR some more then others expecially Nvidia, a great example is when they tried to pass off SM3.0 vs SM2.0 pictures to reviewers and consumers, when it turned out is was SM3.0 vs SM1.0.

But we're not hearing about that are we? I guess Nvidia trying to pass off 100% completely lies to the consumer and reviewer is the the lesser of two evils huh ? I guess the saddest part in all of this is the people that decide to cherry pick they're PR and quote it like its the word of "god" or something. Theres a saying: fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, and a lot of people on this forum have been fooled more then once a long time ago when they decided to believe PR from any company.

 

[gordon151]

talk about sad...thats what ya get with ati. bad driver support. and over all bad support for anything...

and there now making chipsets for mobo's? that will be a huge failure agaist VIA and nVidia...who wants somthing with that bad of driver support?

Do you intentially spurt bs or does it just come out naturally?

erm how long has doom 3 been out? who hasnt finished the game yet? yet again it takes ati 2-3 driver revisions to get performance up to accpetable levels.

Yeah because doom3 was just so unplayable before the 4.10s. Man the whole lot of you are a bunch of jokers.

 

[Major_A]

The new drivers are crap.

-----------------------------------------CAT 4.8-------------------------------Beta 8.07---------------
Halo-----------------------------------39.78----------------------------------36.86
Doom 3
-----trhaze----------------------------49.5-----------------------------------48.8
-----demo1---------------------------44.2-----------------------------------WNR
CoD-----------------------------------132.7----------------------------------117.9
Far Cry-------------------------------81.48----------------------------------80.74

I am guessing that these drivers are wonder drivers for the X series of cards. Also after I loaded the new drivers Doom 3 was artifacting like crazy. Guess I'll roll back to what works.

 

[SnakEyez187]

erm how long has doom 3 been out? who hasnt finished the game yet? yet again it takes ati 2-3 driver revisions to get performance up to accpetable levels.

Performance is fine, just behind Nvidia. It took Nvidia much longer to get FX performance near R350 performance, it happens to everybody

 

[truffle00]

The new drivers are crap.

-----------------------------------------CAT 4.8-------------------------------Beta 8.07---------------
Halo-----------------------------------39.78----------------------------------36.86
Doom 3
-----trhaze----------------------------49.5-----------------------------------48.8
-----demo1---------------------------44.2-----------------------------------WNR
CoD-----------------------------------132.7----------------------------------117.9
Far Cry-------------------------------81.48----------------------------------80.74

I am guessing that these drivers are wonder drivers for the X series of cards. Also after I loaded the new drivers Doom 3 was artifacting like crazy. Guess I'll roll back to what works.

Beta drivers, you took a gamble, you lost. Just get the WHQL ones when they come out.

 

[^eMpTy^]

Performance is fine, just behind Nvidia. It took Nvidia much longer to get FX performance near R350 performance, it happens to everybody

And everybody gets bitched at about it...

 

[^eMpTy^]

Yeah and I love how you come into all the HL2 threads and ATI threads "proclaiming you're a Nvidia and Doom3 fanb0y." and expect credibility . Reminds me of Badger_Sly coming in all the HL2 threads with the same mindless slogans each week, and also trying to preach to followers that the R3XX never crushed the FX series. Gotta love the crap people are willing to say to defend the companies they love.

Back to the topic, who seriously cares? Nvidia has done tons of this crap before, anyone remember the Kyro2 slides? The fact of the matter is all companies have and use PR some more then others expecially Nvidia, a great example is when they tried to pass off SM3.0 vs SM2.0 pictures to reviewers and consumers, when it turned out is was SM3.0 vs SM1.0.

But we're not hearing about that are we? I guess Nvidia trying to pass off 100% completely lies to the consumer and reviewer is the the lesser of two evils huh ? I guess the saddest part in all of this is the people that decide to cherry pick they're PR and quote it like its the word of "god" or something. Theres a saying: fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, and a lot of people on this forum have been fooled more then once a long time ago when they decided to believe PR from any company.

When nvidia does it, I bitch, when ati does it, I bitch...the only difference is you don't seem to have a problem with it...so if you wanna point the !!!!!! finger, realize there are 4 fingers pointed right back at you...

The purpose of this thread is that PR departments are worthless...they don't seem to know any more about thier own cards than the average gamer...and all they talk about is what their bosses want to hear, instead of what needs to be said...it's to the point now, that either company could help themselves tremendously by getting out of the shit-talking war and just start acting respectably...

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

Funny on how the only people who bitch at me are ati users. either way
ati is spewing out bs. and the doom3 engine is a BIG engine that will be used for upcoming games.

and also the pr deparment. no matter who it maybe ati or nVidia. they both suck. and know little to nothing about there own products.

 

[101998]

Personally I like the "Internal Document" tag on the bottom of every slide. Nice poke of fun at nv.

Ati users bitch? Everyone bitches, wtf do you think your doing?

 

[Wolf-R1]

Beta drivers, you took a gamble, you lost. Just get the WHQL ones when they come out.

Isn't that what he's trying to point out flameboy?

 

[truffle00]

Isn't that what he's trying to point out flameboy?

So by calling be flameboy, are you starting something or ending it? Seems like it wouldn't accomplish much either way.

It appears that he is a tad bitter about the drivers not working correctly on his system. What I was pointing out was that they are unofficial, unsupported drivers, and if they do not work correctly, he nor anybody else should read any more into it than that. They did not work on his system, but that does not mean that the drivers are "crap" because they do work for others. A more accurate statement on his part would have been "The new drivers are crap on my system." I was just playing yin to his yang (or is it the other way around?), and nowhere in my post did I notice a flame.

 

[subrandom]

ati = always bad driver support or even just support in general

id be willing to give up like 10 fps to get an nvidia card just because i know the next driver release isnt going to break the games that i play (which has happened quite a few times with ati, and if you dont believe it read the NWN update logs). ATI is always gonna complain about nvidia but id prefer to see a more solid increase in their buisiness practices over their pr stunts because that might get me their buisiness again.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

ati = always bad driver support or even just support in general

id be willing to give up like 10 fps to get an nvidia card just because i know the next driver release isnt going to break the games that i play (which has happened quite a few times with ati, and if you dont believe it read the NWN update logs). ATI is always gonna complain about nvidia but id prefer to see a more solid increase in their buisiness practices over their pr stunts because that might get me their buisiness again.

agreed...i have never gone ati for them reasons...bad support...and now there getting into motherboards...what a joke..your latest ati mobo will break windows instead of games this time around....great work ati

 

[valkyre]

I'm not into ATi at all, but I have to give them credit. I remember back when ATi cards were "those default cards" in pre-built systes. They really caught up to nVidia once 3dfx went under.

But I'm a nVidia fan. Always have been. I even own 200 stocks of the company, and I've made $10,000 off them already.

 

[Wolf-R1]

So by calling be flameboy, are you starting something or ending it? Seems like it wouldn't accomplish much either way.

It appears that he is a tad bitter about the drivers not working correctly on his system. What I was pointing out was that they are unofficial, unsupported drivers, and if they do not work correctly, he nor anybody else should read any more into it than that. They did not work on his system, but that does not mean that the drivers are "crap" because they do work for others. A more accurate statement on his part would have been "The new drivers are crap on my system." I was just playing yin to his yang (or is it the other way around?), and nowhere in my post did I notice a flame.

Ack!

My bad...seems that I missed that part of his post and I thought you were flaming him. Sorry!

 

[Tower]

agreed...i have never gone ati for them reasons...bad support...and now there getting into motherboards...what a joke..your latest ati mobo will break windows instead of games this time around....great work ati

lol.

ATi has more then proven their credability. Your posts scream, "I'm an nVidia zealot and I hate ATi ONLY because they are nVidia's biggest threat!" Honestly, you should take pause when you read this, and consider what you're saying.

Let's take a walk down history lane, for a moment.

ATi was once the underdog, with the Rage 128 series. Upon the dawn of the Radeon chipset, ATi began a power struggle with nVidia for top performance honors. The Radeon 64 ViVO never beat the GeForce2 64 Mb. variety. (Well, at least not until recently -- the Catalyst 3.x and above series drivers compared to the latest ForceWare on said hardware leaves the Radeon with better performance).

Case closed, nVidia won.

Round 2, GeForce 3 vs. Radeon 8500. Neck-and-neck the entire time, both were exquisite pieces of hardware. However, with the maturing Catalyst drivers during the later-end of the 8500's life, it began pulling away, matching performance with the Ti500. Now, with the most recent Catalyst drivers, it's fair to say the Radeon 8500 nestles between the Ti500 and the Ti4200 in terms of performance.

Now, it's a great big fight over the 6800 and the X800. You can pick a company if you want, but don't spout lies about either. In the past, ATi has improved their drivers tenfold. The Catalyst program gave ATi the boost they needed to stay competitive, and they are. If you think that's bullshit, look at the Radeon 64 ViVO and the Radeon 8500 -- both are products that have increased performance dramatically since the inclusion of the Catalyst suite.

Now I'm not saying you can't have favorites, but don't claim that ATi drivers don't work, their hardware doesn't work, or anything else that blatently isn't true. The Catalyst drivers work tremendously, and their current line of cards is (arguably) no better, and no worse, then the current nVidia lineup. Pick a game, the numbers go back and forth, even worse when we add rendering changes like antialiasing and anisotropic filtering.

Please, consider what your saying and be more open-minded towards other products.

 

[subrandom]

...Now I'm not saying you can't have favorites, but don't claim that ATi drivers don't work, their hardware doesn't work, or anything else that blatently isn't true. The Catalyst drivers work tremendously, and their current line of cards is (arguably) no better, and no worse, then the current nVidia lineup. Pick a game, the numbers go back and forth, even worse when we add rendering changes like antialiasing and anisotropic filtering.

Please, consider what your saying and be more open-minded towards other products.

my person problem with ati has always been that they dont support hardware as it gets older very well (newest ati drivers and software for a tv tuner card i have make it so the turn wont work at all) and i have known tons of people with issues with their ati cards/drivers. I do have an nvidia preference but that has been because they have earned my trust. I do agree that ati is getting better and moving to a unified graphics driver is very helpful in that respect but that doesnt mean their overall support has improved drasticly at least enough to spend more on a card which isnt much better than a company with really good driver support. I was mostly just saying nvidia has a tighter package as a whole (despite some of their sleezy benchmarking practices)

 

[TheRapture]

I'm no fan-boyee of either side...I just get what I want AFTER researching the current lineups carefully...


And released Nvidia drivers DO indeed "break" games sometimes...just ask us Flight Simulator 2004 users a couple of releases back...

ATI drivers break games sometimes too...nobody is perfect....

I almost bought an X800 Pro this last purchase, but I went aganst it and got the 6800GT because it had the extra pipes...

 

[BoogerBomb]

Do ya'll really think these slides are "leaked?" Its funny how all these companies private presentations almost always make it out. I dont give a rats ass what any slide says. Nvidia lies on them and ATI lies on them.

I have a 9800Pro, my first ATI card, and love it. Its the first card I have ever owned that I could use ANY level of AA or AF. When I upgrade around XMAS or early next year I will choose which ever card is best at the time. I'm not going to stick with only one companies offerings or start trashing other people for choosing a competitors product.

Why would you want to limit yourself to only one brand of anything? Thats like saying I will only buy a FORD when everyone knows that Chevy's are better.

 

[Moloch]

I'm no fan-boyee of either side...I just get what I want AFTER researching the current lineups carefully...


And released Nvidia drivers DO indeed "break" games sometimes...just ask us Flight Simulator 2004 users a couple of releases back...

ATI drivers break games sometimes too...nobody is perfect....

I almost bought an X800 Pro this last purchase, but I went aganst it and got the 6800GT because it had the extra pipes...

No offence, but what's the point of extra pipelines if you have virtually the same fillrate?
I do think it's stupid to be buy the pro when you get the XT-PE for 100 more, that has 49% more fillrate, and stupid to get the 6800 ultra, cuz the GT is nearly as fast..

 

[TheRapture]

No offence, but what's the point of extra pipelines if you have virtually the same fillrate?
I do think it's stupid to be buy the pro when you get the XT-PE for 100 more, that has 49% more fillrate, and stupid to get the 6800 ultra, cuz the GT is nearly as fast..

The extra pipes will make more a of a difference in say, 6 months...of course I will probably be buying a new card anyways by then! I also based my GT purchase on the fact that at the time the X800 Pro was getting beat by the GT in Far Cry and Doom3...the only 2 games I play with regularity. Yes, the Ultra is overpriced (for me) as is the X800 XT/PE...

 

[eastvillager]

Doom 3 was optimized for nvidia, im sure nvidia will do the same for HL2

Actually, it was the other way around. The 6800 chip was built around what id was using for doom3. Ati could've done the same thing, but didn't.

 

[Mav451]

Reading this thread scares me. The lvl of idiocy, is well, frightening.

2 or 3 nVidiots are screaming about how ATi drivers are bad. Is that so? I've have my 8500LE since Aug '02, and I had less problems with that than with my Geforce TNT2 (which the 8500LE replaced).

The thing is, I hope I don't turn stupid when I get the 6600GT. Honestly.

 

[Moloch]

The extra pipes will make more a of a difference in say, 6 months...of course I will probably be buying a new card anyways by then! I also based my GT purchase on the fact that at the time the X800 Pro was getting beat by the GT in Far Cry and Doom3...the only 2 games I play with regularity. Yes, the Ultra is overpriced (for me) as is the X800 XT/PE...

I'm still confused here..
The pro can push 5700 pixels/s, the GT 5600.
More importantly, is the GT has 32GB/s throughput on the memory bus, where the pro "only" has 28.8
Far cry seems like a tossup for the X800 pro and GT, switching places, seems like either can play the game at the same settings.
Ati finally caught up in doom3, but obviously too late, with their application detection.
So what I'm saying here, is the pipelines don't mean jack, since they have virtually identicle fillrates, but the GT has higher bandwidth, but the X800 has better bandwidth saving tech.
I expect with more mature drivers(the X800/X700 has a very programable memory controllor) and with catalyst A.I, ati will lead the majority of benchmarks.
Sadly, it seems like the case with the 8500, but the X800 was faster at first, then nvidia got good drivers, and now ati has good drivers.
Ill prolly snag whatever card is cheaper around xmas..
I wish I could afford all the hardware somepeople can to do direct comparisons, The Baron claims the GT hands the X800 it's ass to it, but he seems like nv !!!!!!).
I will say the GT does have an edge, but no where near handing the pro it's ass.
But I can only go by what the benchmark sites tell me.