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ATi R520 = 24 Pipelines...

P

PolarbearBigEd

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Messages
435
Now before you go crazy bashing, I'm not sure whether or not it's true, but EE times online said that the new GPU will have a 24-stage pipeline chip that operates at 700-MHz .

...as if anything else, it could be purely speculation, but who knows until the product is actually right? Anyway, here is the link:

R520 24 Pipelines @ 700MHz

Sorry if old.

-P
 
24 stages does not mean 24 pipes.
Not that it matters, it's what you do with the pipes, and how fast they can get information from one end to the other.
 
i will believe when i see it. ATI currently not on top of the world right now, Nvidia is. (Not for long if these ATI cards comes out sooner)
 
Well is it 16 or 24? I'm tempted to go 24 because that means it will have amazing performance and make up the rest fo the transistor count (somehing that seemed very low for a 16 pipe card)
 
I thought I read that it was the added Hyper Memory that was running at 700mhz, and the pipelines were 24, but ran at 1.1ghz?

Or I didn't read anything at all and I made that all up.....you decide.

:D

(kidding aside...I am waiting for the R520 to upgrade. So everything else will drop in price and I can move up from my 6600GT and not have it cost me an arm and a leg )
 
It said 24 stage pipeline. You can't translate that to NUMBER of pipelines.
 
I'm just hoping they have enough sense to offer a 512mb card sometime in the next couple of months.
 
ATi's CEO has directly said that R520 "might" be faster than G70 "if" they get the clocks they want...

You can bet the clock they want is about 700MHz...

If R520 @ 700Mhz "might" beat G70, you can bet your ass it's not 24 pipes...

Unless they are 24 retarded pipes...
 
We'll see. As rumors speculate the 24pipe R520 is not the limit to the R520's potential. ATI is waiting for nVidia to release their 7800U(if they ever will, or even if its possible as a successor to the 7800GTX) then ATI will deffenitely release a 32pipe version fo the R520. Also reumors say that these pipeslines and the architecture is new and special. I, for one, would like ATI to own nVidia in this battle of next gen chips, I don't know it's just a preference of mine, since I had bad luck with nVidia cards and prefer ATI. Since the FX series days right through the 6800 series. I would buy ATI's card even its somehow slower.

@ empty: You do realize that a faster clocked GPU with the same number of pipes would be faster than nVidia's offering? A higher clocked core with higher clocked mem and same pipes will be faster than the 7800(6800U vs X850XT???).
 
BloodRayne said:
We'll see. As rumors speculate the 24pipe R520 is not the limit to the R520's potential. ATI is waiting for nVidia to release their 7800U(if they ever will, or even if its possible as a successor to the 7800GTX) then ATI will deffenitely release a 32pipe version fo the R520. Also reumors say that these pipeslines and the architecture is new and special. I, for one, would like ATI to own nVidia in this battle of next gen chips, I don't know it's just a preference of mine.
Click to expand...

lol

the only thing ATi is waiting for is the chips to reach production quality so they can get something on store shelves...every day they wait is another day they lose money to nvidia...

the rumors right now, from all reliable sources...is 16 pipes at 700Mhz if they can get that clock reliably...

24 or 32 pipes will have to wait for R580...

ATi's CEO has directly stated that R520 will probably not beat an Ultra version of G70...

that's not a rumor...that's fact...
 
The R580 is a spinoff of the R520 which shares some charecterisitcs with the R500(although it was designed in a totally different design facility). Also with the same size die as the X850 and a smaller manufacturing process you have more than enough room to fit 32 pipes with alot of features.

Maybe we will have to wait for the R580 to arrive, but that doesn't mean that nVidia has something to counter that. We still don't know about this "so called" 7800U that might possibly have 32pipes. So nVidia might very well not have a counter-part to the R580 or R520 for that matter.
 
As much as I'd like to think that the R520 is 24 pipes, its unlikely..

Like empty said, ati's ceo said the r520 "might" beat the gtx. I'm thinking a 24 pipeline card at 700Mhz would give ati's ceo enough confidence to say it would solidly beat the gtx or even a planned ultra version from nvidia.
 
Asian Dub Foundation said:
ill wait till reviews comes out before i get any where excited
Click to expand...

You may want to wait till it's actually in the stores, because I saw reviews of crossfire a few months ago and still nothing
 
7800GTX operates at core clocks way less than 700Mhz. I find it pretty damn funny that ATI has to clock the R520 at 700Mhz just to beat the G70.
 
Isn't it worse to use more stages in a pipeline? They're probably completely unrelated, but Intel got burned when they just tried to cram more MHZ and longer pipelines into their Pentium 4's.

Perhaps this means that the R520 will run pretty hot? Or will they use less pipelines with more stages per. Again, I really don't know enough to make a case, but I'm just throwing this out there.
 
I'm not buying a new card until they get their sh&t together ATI and Nvidia. I want a 32 pipe 512mb card period.
 
YmkFX said:
Isn't it worse to use more stages in a pipeline? They're probably completely unrelated, but Intel got burned when they just tried to cram more MHZ and longer pipelines into their Pentium 4's.

Perhaps this means that the R520 will run pretty hot? Or will they use less pipelines with more stages per. Again, I really don't know enough to make a case, but I'm just throwing this out there.
Click to expand...
Not when it comes to SIMD instructions, which is why things that are heavily SSE reliant run faster on P4s. Much of what GPUs do is similar to SIMD instructions, so a faster clock could very well be a boon for GPUs, even with a longer pipeline.
 
spaceman said:
I'm not buying a new card until they get their sh&t together ATI and Nvidia. I want a 32 pipe 512mb card period.
Click to expand...

Err, get their shit together? They seem to be doing just fine. Well, nVIdia is, at least. They went from 8 to 16 in one generation. Then this generation they bumped another 8. Next generation we could 32 pipelines if they're worth the transistors.
 
spaceman said:
I'm not buying a new card until they get their sh&t together ATI and Nvidia. I want a 32 pipe 512mb card period.
Click to expand...

Let me guess...you have a 1.4Ghz pentium 4?
 
spaceman said:
I'm just hoping they have enough sense to offer a 512mb card sometime in the next couple of months.
Click to expand...
you really need 512? For what exactly?
 
^eMpTy^ said:
lol

the only thing ATi is waiting for is the chips to reach production quality so they can get something on store shelves...every day they wait is another day they lose money to nvidia...

the rumors right now, from all reliable sources...is 16 pipes at 700Mhz if they can get that clock reliably...

24 or 32 pipes will have to wait for R580...

ATi's CEO has directly stated that R520 will probably not beat an Ultra version of G70...

that's not a rumor...that's fact...
Click to expand...


^eMpTy^ said:
ATi's CEO has directly said that R520 "might" be faster than G70 "if" they get the clocks they want...

You can bet the clock they want is about 700MHz...

If R520 @ 700Mhz "might" beat G70, you can bet your ass it's not 24 pipes...

Unless they are 24 retarded pipes...
Click to expand...


!!!!!!ism and word twisting is exploding out your mouth like shit out of a sewer pipe (no pun intended har har har)

1. Late September Launch Date Set for Three R500 Desktop Discrete Chips (R520, RV530, and RV515): Addressing the rampant rumours surrounding the R520 launch date, ATI stated its plan of record is to launch all three 90nm R500 desktop discrete chips (the enthusiast R520, the performance RV530, and the value RV515) in late September. The shipment dates will likely be staggered for the three chips, based on the delivery cycles from TSMC, with one likely shipping at launch date and the other two within the first half of October. The R520 was originally planned for a June launch, while the RV530 and RV515 launch times are only a few weeks delayed from their original schedule. The R520 had been sampling since Dec/04, and although the architecture and 90nm process were not a problem, ATI was not able to run the clock fast enough due to a “soft ground” issue that was discovered in late July after debugging with several re-spins. Specifically, the R520 and RV530 had functional yields, but could not run at high speeds, while the RV515 and the C1 (the 90nm Xbox graphics chip) did not have any issues. ATI concedes it has lost the OEM designs (primarily Dell) to NVIDIA’s GeForce 7800 GTX for enthusiast desktop PCs for both the back-to-school and holiday season, but believes the retail and channel (add-in-board) markets for the R520 chip remain available (representing over 2/3rds of the enthusiast market). Both ATI and NVIDIA did not refresh their back-to-school product stack for the performance/mainstream/value segments, with ATI indicating it has kept a significant share of design wins awarded in the March to May timeframe, based on its ATI X700, X600, X550, and X300 (competing against NVIDIA’s GeForce 6200 and 6600). In terms of performance, ATI believes the R520 should exceed the GeForce 7800 GTX in benchmark tests if it can get the proper clock speed, but recognizes that NVIDIA has some headroom to overclock the GeForce 7800 clock speeds. We do not expect ATI to launch its R580 (speculated to have 32 pixel pipelines) in C2005 (ATI does not want to stall the channel for the R520), and expect a refresh of the R500 family beginning in spring 2006 with RV560, followed by RV540 and RV505. We expect the R600 (DirectX 10, targeting Microsoft Vista operating system and WGF 2.0, the next generation graphics library) in Q4/F06 or Q1/F07.
Click to expand...

Alrighty, first empty the almighty states "ATI's CEO has stated, blah blah blah, ultra, blah blah..."

nope he hasnt. He said that they recognize the potential of the G70 for higher clocks. No mention of ultra, or problably wont anything.

and then next empty the almighty states "ATI's CEO said the R520 "might" blah blah blah G70 blah"

nope again he hasnt. He said the R520 should exceed the G70 in all benchmarks assuming they hit clock goals. It would of been pretty bold and rather in bad taste to come out and say "yep its going to kill it." He simply couldnt gaurentie that, would of been a really cocky and somewhat out of line thing to say. And then later in an interview he said that the R520 is hitting clock speeds never before seen in the market, so i think they'll meet this goal.

Anymore words to stuff in the mouth of the CEO of ATI today? Or are you ready to take some remedial reading program?
 
24 pipes and 700 core would be more then 50% faster then the 7800gtx

16 pipes and 700 core would be maybe 1/10th faster then the 7800gtx or about even

its probably 16 pipes
 
Nidhogg said:
24 pipes and 700 core would be more then 50% faster then the 7800gtx

16 pipes and 700 core would be maybe 1/10th faster then the 7800gtx or about even

its probably 16 pipes
Click to expand...
Thats assuming their pipelines do the same amount of work in one cycle.
Which isn't a very good assumption, when you look at the difference between other devices work per cycle ratios.
 
So far we basically have is:

16 pipeline Unified Architecture
24 Stage
700Mhz

16 uni-piped/24 stage/700mhz+, 16 uni-piped/24 stage/700mhz+, 16 uni-piped/24 stage/700mhz+, THATS POWER!! ATI bluffing on its card vs. nVidia? Could be. I am waiting for 1 of the rocket scientist on this board to do the numbers on this calculation.

Oh, and its name is Xaveon.

(I kid, I kid, don't hang me.) :p
 
eno-on said:
Not that it matters, it's what you do with the pipes, and how fast they can get information from one end to the other.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY, i really don't see any point in drooling over the # of pipes on a card. It's kind of like drooling over the mhz, it all depends on the FULL architecture of the card. You can't take any little bits of info (esp since it's just rumors) and try to figure out how fast it'll be. Graphics cards are far too complicated to just 'predict' how fast they will be. There are just too many variables.

No point drooling over it until we KNOW how fast it is (benchmarks) AND it's actually available, which will hopefully be at the same time as the benchies, but don't hold your breath
 
^eMpTy^ said:
ATi's CEO has directly said that R520 "might" be faster than G70 "if" they get the clocks they want...

You can bet the clock they want is about 700MHz...

If R520 @ 700Mhz "might" beat G70, you can bet your ass it's not 24 pipes...

Unless they are 24 retarded pipes...
Click to expand...
Or maybe they will over optimize the sheet out of the card and decrease IQ just to look faster?

Not that any company would stup to that level...........

My suggestion is we wait until we have a retail product before blasting it.
 
Shifra said:
!!!!!!ism and word twisting is exploding out your mouth like shit out of a sewer pipe (no pun intended har har har)



Alrighty, first empty the almighty states "ATI's CEO has stated, blah blah blah, ultra, blah blah..."

nope he hasnt. He said that they recognize the potential of the G70 for higher clocks. No mention of ultra, or problably wont anything.

and then next empty the almighty states "ATI's CEO said the R520 "might" blah blah blah G70 blah"

nope again he hasnt. He said the R520 should exceed the G70 in all benchmarks assuming they hit clock goals. It would of been pretty bold and rather in bad taste to come out and say "yep its going to kill it." He simply couldnt gaurentie that, would of been a really cocky and somewhat out of line thing to say. And then later in an interview he said that the R520 is hitting clock speeds never before seen in the market, so i think they'll meet this goal.

Anymore words to stuff in the mouth of the CEO of ATI today? Or are you ready to take some remedial reading program?
Click to expand...

you sir need to get more sensitive to the type of events ATIs CEO is making its comments.
First when he said that R520 is hitting clock speeds never seen before - that was during an interview by general media. So in such conversations you always talk about the best things.
Guess what NV30 had clock speeds never reached before in that industry too. We know how that turned out - don't we. So as a CEO of a company or as part of the marketing team you always need to talk bullish to general media about your products and business.

But now when it comes to investor relations you need to get cautios otherwise it could cost you your head and could bring up some nice lawsuits.
And his comment about R520 beating G70GTX if they hit target clock speeds and also saying that they know that G70GTX has some clock speed headroom is a statement which is anything but not positive.
You need to put that in the right context. That was a truely cautios statement towards investors. He would never say "well folks our product won't beat the competition" but he wanted to look as less optimistic as he could without beeing more precise.
I have listened so many conference calls from ATI and Nvidia in the past 4 years including those during the NV3x timeframe. So i got kinda sensetive to such kind of statements from companies.
My guess is that they might beat G70GTX but will have pretty damn low yields and it looks like that they know that once Nvidia does a small clock speed refresh let's say to about 500MHZ - which is easy for them considering the headroom they have as far as the cooling sollution goes - they won't be able to beat that in 2005.

The whole conference call was very cautions, with a bad outlook through 2005 and 1 day later they isued a revenue and profits warning to now 480 mio in revenues which is 140 mio revenue less than 6 months before. What a huge dive.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
ATi's CEO has directly said that R520 "might" be faster than G70 "if" they get the clocks they want...

You can bet the clock they want is about 700MHz...

If R520 @ 700Mhz "might" beat G70, you can bet your ass it's not 24 pipes...

Unless they are 24 retarded pipes...
Click to expand...


If the R520 isn't faster than the GTX its a failed product!

I am waiting till I see a hard launch to give a shit any more, my R480 is fast enough
 
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