ATI misrepresents nVidia AA in demo

[Rollo]

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=689&page=3#

We tried to duplicate the screen shots that ATI supplied to us, and found that ATI seems to have misrepresented the micro-geometry detail of NVIDIA's 8X anti-aliasing method. The screen shots we took on our own with a GeForce 6800 GT, clearly show more detail than the screen shots distributed by ATI in their CrossFire presentation.

Finally, we contacted ATi for comment on this issue that we discovered and they agreed they too could not reproduce the lack of detail that is represented in the NVIDIA screen shot they provided us above, although they assured there was no intention of misleading us with these competitive image quality comparisons. This isn't the first and probably won't be the last time we will be witness to over-zealous marketing efforts, whether accdidental or intentional.

It's nice when companies lie to you to get your business, isn't it?

 

[Terra]

Someone must have red ears now...

Terra - I hope...

 

[legcramp]

wow who cares..yet.....crossfire hasn't came out officially to the public yet..and it's probably just a driver issue/bug or something....and I am also annoyed @ nvidia's AF issue...where in cs:s in quality mode...there are jaggies on hte ground especially in dust maps on the shiny floor...only way to get rid of it is to use high quality mode..which kills fps..hehe well not kill...but decrease by quite a bit..

 

[PRIME1]

Quake - Quack.

It's not ATI's hardware that I hate, it's their f***ed in the head marketing.

 

[Terra]

wow who cares..yet.....crossfire hasn't came out officially to the public yet..and it's probably just a driver issue/bug or something....and I am also annoyed @ nvidia's AF issue...where in cs:s in quality mode...there are jaggies on hte ground especially in dust maps on the shiny floor...only way to get rid of it is to use high quality mode..which kills fps..hehe well not kill...but decrease by quite a bit..

1. I care, I don't like being lied to..do you?

2. How can it be a driver problem?
You do know that the bad screens where from ATI showing(now proved to be a lie) inferior IQ on NVIDIA hardware?
So don't try and sweep it under the rug as "ATI driver problems", please...

Terra - Sorry if I misunderstood you...

 

[pxc]

Someone must have red ears now...

caught again!

 

[legcramp]

So don't try and sweep it under the rug as "ATI driver problems", please...

I am not trying to sweep anything under teh rug, I own nvidia I am just giving my opinion...ok....so please..don't try and flame me b/c I am just saying what I am thinking...please...

 

[Mr Mean]

Wow bad marketing for the win?

 

[ZenOps]

I always though AA was a smoothing algorithm.

Less sharp detail is actually what you are trying to achieve most of the time.

Or am I wrong?

 

[{NG}Fidel]

None the less 14AA vs 8AA got my bussiness allready.
Still it was rather foolish of ATI.
Not as if both companies havent lied or used unfair comparisons anyway.

 

[valkyre]

Oopsies, did ATi cheat again?

Although it didn't win any brownie points with me, I'm so used to companies lying and twisting the facts nowadays that nothing like this surprises me anymore. Even my beloved nVidia has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar on more than one occasion.

 

[ZenOps]

IMO, anything much beyond 4xAA can be simulated by wearing 19/20 glasses or smearing grease over the monitor... But thats just IMO. I got knocked for saying it when Nvidia had high AA, I'm saying it again now that ATi seems to have a higher AA just to be fair.

Some people like smooth peanut butter, some like chunky. AA is the lowest thing on my list of things that need improving. I like my textures with high AF and low AA.

 

[Rollo]

wow who cares..yet.....crossfire hasn't came out officially to the public yet..and it's probably just a driver issue/bug or something....and I am also annoyed @ nvidia's AF issue...where in cs:s in quality mode...there are jaggies on hte ground especially in dust maps on the shiny floor...only way to get rid of it is to use high quality mode..which kills fps..hehe well not kill...but decrease by quite a bit..

The point is that ATI told people the nVidia IQ was at a mucher higher setting than it was in an effort to make their own look much better.

Shameful.

 

[Rollo]

None the less 14AA vs 8AA got my bussiness allready.
Still it was rather foolish of ATI.
Not as if both companies havent lied or used unfair comparisons anyway.

You do know that you can't use SuperAA in conjuction with Scissor/AFR/Tiling right? So really it's only useful on old games- you'll never run HL2/Doom3/FarCry engine games at high res, 14AA.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

And?

 

[Rollo]

And?

I guess to me "Who cares?" high AA on old games I'm never likely to play again. Woot. This is a reason to drop a bunch of money on a couple SM2 cards and a buggy motherboard? No thanks, I'll wait for the supposedly in production R520s/G70s before I consider any upgrades. Also, nV is working on SLI 2 reputedly, and may offer something similar.

 

[trinibwoy]

I guess to me "Who cares?" high AA on old games I'm never likely to play again. Woot. This is a reason to drop a bunch of money on a couple SM2 cards and a buggy motherboard? No thanks, I'll wait for the supposedly in production R520s/G70s before I consider any upgrades. Also, nV is working on SLI 2 reputedly, and may offer something similar.

Rollo, you know you do make good points sometimes. But maybe if you leave out the unnecessary jabs at ATi (I know it's hard for you ), people will respect your opinion a bit more. Just some friendly advice

 

[bboynitrous]

I guess to me "Who cares?" high AA on old games I'm never likely to play again. Woot. This is a reason to drop a bunch of money on a couple SM2 cards and a buggy motherboard? No thanks, I'll wait for the supposedly in production R520s/G70s before I consider any upgrades. Also, nV is working on SLI 2 reputedly, and may offer something similar.

No you won't. You'll wait for the fucking G70 and then automatically buy it. I'm sorry man, I don't care if I get banned, but you are a fucking idiot. I just can't take anymore of your ridiculous threads ridiculing and and talking shit about a certain company. I don't know why you don't have anything important or constructive to post, only when ATI slips up. I've said my peace.

 

[eno-on]

They might want to check the old trick of drivers recognizing a screenshto being taken and applying propper quality settings to that screenshot.
Then again, it's more likely that an overzealous ATI marketing 'guru' is looking for a new job.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Admiting they made a mistake......I have the tar all we need now is the feathers.

 

[fallguy]

Admiting they made a mistake......I have the tar all we need now is the feathers.

^ Key word, mistake.

Nobody here knows if it was on purpose or not.

Calling the ATi Crossfire board buggy is pretty ignorant too. Its not even shipped yet. Drivers will greatly improve before retail. And its not as if the SLI boards were bug free upon release? A8N anyone?

 

[Hate_Bot]

"Company Uses Untruthfull tacticts for marketing, more at 11"

seriously though, you think Nvidia never lied?

"SLI Will offer more then 2x the performance over a single card"

ya that happened

 

[thecoldanddarkone]

you are seriously going to have to find that qoute. Because if I remember correctly it was more like up to 95 percent better

 

[tranCendenZ]

you are seriously going to have to find that qoute. Because if I remember correctly it was more like up to 95 percent better

Yep and it meets that promise in games the most stressful on the GPU like Doom3

 

[legcramp]

No you won't. You'll wait for the fucking G70 and then automatically buy it. I'm sorry man, I don't care if I get banned, but you are a fucking idiot. I just can't take anymore of your ridiculous threads ridiculing and and talking shit about a certain company. I don't know why you don't have anything important or constructive to post, only when ATI slips up. I've said my peace.

hehehehehe!!!! I mean


HAHAAHAHAHAHAhAH!~!!!!!

 

[Tengis]

IMO, anything much beyond 4xAA can be simulated by wearing 19/20 glasses or smearing grease over the monitor... But thats just IMO. I got knocked for saying it when Nvidia had high AA, I'm saying it again now that ATi seems to have a higher AA just to be fair.

Some people like smooth peanut butter, some like chunky. AA is the lowest thing on my list of things that need improving. I like my textures with high AF and low AA.

I read this entire thread up to that, which wasnt much, but thats all that needs to be said. I personally never use AA, I think its useless. It does nothing for me.

 

[legcramp]

I read this entire thread up to that, which wasnt much, but thats all that needs to be said. I personally never use AA, I think its useless. It does nothing for me.

well either you play @ very very very...very high resolutions..., games that doesn't require much AA, or you just have very bad eyes hehe.

 

[trinibwoy]

This is hilarious. I'm contrasting the comments here with the types of comments made when Nvidia is caught doing something dirty. I can't believe so many people blindly accept that Nvidia is evil and ATi only makes "honest mistakes"...

If I had the time I would go lookup some of the posts during the whole 1.1 vs 3.0 Splinter Cell screenshot debacle by the same people who are defending ATi now....but I can probably safely guess what their comments were....

 

[{NG}Fidel]

I guess to me "Who cares?" high AA on old games I'm never likely to play again. Woot. This is a reason to drop a bunch of money on a couple SM2 cards and a buggy motherboard? No thanks, I'll wait for the supposedly in production R520s/G70s before I consider any upgrades. Also, nV is working on SLI 2 reputedly, and may offer something similar.

When did I cite that I would buy Cross Fire solely to play my Old Games (Which I still play old does not = bad). Also Rollo I see that you are trying to scare people from every ATI mobo even though the ULI south bridge will be available.
Dont compare Nvidias soon to be with what we have in the now. You insulted those who talked about R520 back in the day yet you talk about G70 and SLI 2 all the time.
I consider what ATI did as bad, but I do like the fact that they fessed up. At least they were honest about it is all I am saying. Lots of companies will dodge the question or just ignore the subject in general.

 

[Rollo]

No you won't. You'll wait for the fucking G70 and then automatically buy it.

I haven't decided what my next upgrade is. My 6800GTs are serving my needs very well at the moment. I would note that I have bought/used every one of ATIs "best" cards for the last 10 years, so it's not like I'm ignoring them? I even had a X800XT PE in my box as recently as January?

I'm sorry man, I don't care if I get banned, but you are a fucking idiot.

I hope you can handle your emotions better in your real life interactions?

I just can't take anymore of your ridiculous threads ridiculing and and talking shit about a certain company.

So ATI lies to their potential customers, admits they were "mistaken" and you yell at me for telling people about it? How is that "ridiculous"? What if someone believed their lies, and didn't buy SLI due to them, and it may well be a superior solution? I know this for sure- SLI has more mature drivers and motherboards.

I don't know why you don't have anything important or constructive to post, only when ATI slips up. I've said my peace.

You mean like when I bought three SLI sets, spent hours benching them, and post the results here so people could get a better idea about this tech? AFAIK, my benches are still one of TWO accurate sets of benches of 6800NU SLI on the web? What have you done that's more constructive? Last year I posted 6800NU benches before they were available, Far Cry SM3 benches before the patch was released, and Doom3 benches before the game was released?
I'm not trying to pimp myself here, but when you say I never post anything constructive, I hope you personally are doing some pretty interesting stuff by comparison?
I can post links to all of the above, can you post links to what you've done that puts you in a position to say my posts are trivial?

 

[Apple740]

and I am also annoyed @ nvidia's AF issue...where in cs:s in quality mode...there are jaggies on hte ground especially in dust maps on the shiny floor...only way to get rid of it is to use high quality mode..which kills fps..hehe well not kill...but decrease by quite a bit..

Good point, it's offtopic but this is EXACTLY the reason why I prefer my X800XTPE over my former 6800GT@U (owned both cards simultaniously, sold the 6800GT). This is not only in CSS, but happens in most games.
With Nvidia's default 'quality' mode, there is simply more texture aliasing than with Ati's default rendering mode. You can get Nvidia's IQ (almost) on par with Ati's, but you'll have to switch to 'high quality'. But in that case, Ati simply whipes the floor with Nv performancewise. Strange enough this issue is hardly mentioned in reviews.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=689&page=3#





It's nice when companies lie to you to get your business, isn't it?

OMG... ATI doing to NV what NV has done to everyone for years. Boo fucking who.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

You mean like when I bought three SLI sets, spent hours benching them, and post the results here so people could get a better idea about this tech? AFAIK, my benches are still one of TWO accurate sets of benches of 6800NU SLI on the web? What have you done that's more constructive? Last year I posted 6800NU benches before they were available, Far Cry SM3 benches before the patch was released, and Doom3 benches before the game was released?

Yeah but inbetween those great topics and threads you post crap.
Which is what gets so many people pissed.

 

[Tengis]

well either you play @ very very very...very high resolutions..., games that doesn't require much AA, or you just have very bad eyes hehe.

I play at 1280x1024 and I have perfect vision. Any performance hit at all isnt worth having me lose any performance. Ide rather get smooth as jesus frame rates than get decent frame rates with slightly smoother edges. AA is useless in my eyes, its overrated.

 

[JL_Audio_User]

No you won't. You'll wait for the fucking G70 and then automatically buy it. I'm sorry man, I don't care if I get banned, but you are a fucking idiot. I just can't take anymore of your ridiculous threads ridiculing and and talking shit about a certain company. I don't know why you don't have anything important or constructive to post, only when ATI slips up. I've said my peace.

Your freakin' out over a video card?....on a web forum?...with a stranger?.....and HE's the fuckin idiot?

Go do a bong hit and relax.

 

[Dillusion]

Your freakin' out over a video card?....on a web forum?...with a stranger?.....and HE's the fuckin idiot?

Go do a bong hit and relax.

Reminds me, i have a roach in my drawer. Nice.

As for the Topic:

Care: 0
Dont Care: 1

Dont care for teh win!

 

[Erasmus354]

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=689&page=3#





It's nice when companies lie to you to get your business, isn't it?

Personally I'm a fan of the :

Exec A : Hey I think it would be just swell if we would rig our drivers to reduce image quality in benchmark program B so that we get higher scores.

Exec B : Brilliant! We can make our hardware look better in all of these pesky online reviews that are showing our cards as poor performers, and nobody will be the wiser. *tents fingers mr. burns-esque* exceelllllent.



But seriously, this is nothing new in the graphics industry, both ATi and Nvidia are guilty of these types of deceptions, and frankly, nothing has been proven that this was intentional. In my mind it probably was, but I still put it a notch lower than intentionally rigging drivers (which unless my memory is wrong both ATi and Nvidia have done in the past with Nvidia the most recent)

 

[Lethal]

This has gotten off-topic.