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*(~)* Ati Flagship *(~)*

L

Lee Enfield

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
347
What is the card that will takeover as ATI's "top dog" after the X850 XT PE series? I want to build a brand new rig using the new AMD core that will be released soon hopefully along with a DFI Lanparty nForce 4 Ultra-D and the new ATI PCI-E top of the line card. Do you think it will be out by June? Please post any links or comments that might be helpful.
 
Their flagship is going to be based on the R520 which is another spin on the R300 series, just add SM 3.0 and higher clock rate.

R500 is the tech going into the next XBOX. Basically, some of its components were moved onto the R520 core. ATI is not going to put out a better core on the PC before the XBOX 2 is launched. This is just common "business" knowledge. ATI will run with the R520 for the next year with basic speed bumps, then move to the R600 for PC's again. Should give them a year of the Xbox 2's graphics, then move ahead with the PC.

No links, just board discussions and past practices with graphics card companies.
 
man how long until they actually come up with some new technology.... i guess if it aint broke dont fix it is still there modo.... but it would be nice to see them actually trying to move forward as far as technology goes....
 
SM3.0 and HDR ARE moving forward. What else can they do? SM4.0 and DX10 make no sense until Longhorn comes out late next year.
 
Yeah it would be a waste of money to do that now. Plus it gives us all time to wait a while and save money for both of the Big Guys (ATI/Nvidia) GFX Cards. I hope their is a clear winner this time I hate it when its so Equal! :p
 
Well I don't want to get a X850 XT PE in June then have it be outdated by the new ATI core 6 months down the road. I was thinking of maybe getting an X800XL then upgrading to the new ATI Flagship whenever it comes out.
 
Their new flagship product is the X850XT PE, and it is just barely starting to show up. You won't have any new products by June.
 
What do you mean barely showing up? Ive seen them at almost every online retailer and a bunch of coming soons to stores like COMPUSA and Best Buy. Also they are pretty much at the price you would expect/want the card to be at. Ive seen the X850XT at New Egg for 539.00, The deal is gone (I think) but still that only how much more over MSRP.
 
So you think I should just go ahead and get the X850 XT PE instead of waiting? I mean jeesh look at my sig.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
What do you mean barely showing up? Ive seen them at almost every online retailer and a bunch of coming soons to stores like COMPUSA and Best Buy. Also they are pretty much at the price you would expect/want the card to be at. Ive seen the X850XT at New Egg for 539.00, The deal is gone (I think) but still that only how much more over MSRP.
Click to expand...

Most all of them are OEM versions and ATI hasn't started shipping out the BBA version yet cause i'm still on pre-order.
 
gotcha, personaly I wouldnt mind an OEM Version (I know its downsides).
I upgrade frequently so I never see a warrenty as a problem. Only for my more mobile computers (travel Desktops) do I want Retail for reassureance.
 
Lee Enfield said:
So you think I should just go ahead and get the X850 XT PE instead of waiting? I mean jeesh look at my sig.
Click to expand...
the x850 would be a waste on your computer... you'd be so CPU / Ram / Bus / anything else limited that there would be just no point. You'd want at least a P4 3.0 or AMD 3200 and a gig of ram to even start to make the upgrade worth it

PLUS your motherboard is AGP and the x850 is PCI-express so you couldn't use it anyway
 
Zinn said:
the x850 would be a waste on your computer... you'd be so CPU / Ram / Bus / anything else limited that there would be just no point. You'd want at least a P4 3.0 or AMD 3200 and a gig of ram to even start to make the upgrade worth it

PLUS your motherboard is AGP and the x850 is PCI-express so you couldn't use it anyway
Click to expand...
He said he was building a new system...

I would just get the X850 XT PE if the price is right. In fact that's what I did, I got one for $499 after waiting 2 months for the X800 XL which is still about 25% over MSRP. At the worst you can sell it if ATI comes out with something amazing soon which I don't see happening at volume. Maybe nVidia would since they've been sitting on the Ultra for a while. Hell the 9800 Pro is still selling for $250 and out of stock at the ATI store. But I guess it depends how much you want to play something versus wait around for a while longer.
 
Mr. Brownstone said:
He said he was building a new system...

I would just get the X850 XT PE if the price is right. In fact that's what I did, I got one for $499 after waiting 2 months for the X800 XL which is still about 25% over MSRP. At the worst you can sell it if ATI comes out with something amazing soon which I don't see happening at volume. Maybe nVidia would since they've been sitting on the Ultra for a while. Hell the 9800 Pro is still selling for $250 and out of stock at the ATI store. But I guess it depends how much you want to play something versus wait around for a while longer.
Click to expand...

Well my only concern is that in my opinion the technology in the X850 Series is basicly one year old since the X800's came out around last year in Q2 I believe and I keep hearing things about ATI's new core, but I think I'll go ahead and get it since I don't feel like waiting till Thanksgiving or Christmas to upgrade from this POS PIII and 8500.
 
Don't get a new card yet.ATI just invited the top overclockers to compete for the next world record in 3dmark05.

There next card is coming second q 05.

Heres whats been said so far about it.

ATI R520...Due out in May 05
24 "Pipelines"
32 Texture Units
96 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALU)
192 Shader Operations per Cycle
700MHz Core
134.4 Billion Shader Operations per Second (at 700MHz)
256-bit 512MB 1.8GHz GDDR3 Memory
57.6 GB/sec Bandwidth (at 1.8GHz)
300-350 Million Transistors
90nm Manufacturing
Shader Model 3.0
ATI HyperMemory
ATI Multi Rendering Technology (SLI)
Launch: Q2 2005
Performance: Over 3x Radeon X800 XT !!! (for single R520)

This was taken from extremesystems forum
 
Peach said:
Press release from ATI please. Anybody can throw down specs in a forum
Click to expand...

These are just speculation.Even if this card is half of these specs nvidia should be very scared.We will soon find out after the nda is over.

extreme is not a playground they don't make up bs claims.
 
Does anyone know if the next flagship ATI card is going to have SLI or something comparable? Ive heard rumors that you will be only able to link two cards only if your using a ATI chipset, and the ATI chipsets can't hold a candle to Nvidias chipsets. If those specs are on par with what they have, running them in SLI would be insane.
 
We will have to see, so far I know that you dont need to connect the cards physicly. that the board will be able to connect the cards itself. Also the ATI chipsets so far have been prety good for a first shot at mobo making but yeah I do hope that AMR will work on Nforce boards as well.
 
skratch said:
Don't get a new card yet.ATI just invited the top overclockers to compete for the next world record in 3dmark05.

There next card is coming second q 05.

Heres whats been said so far about it.

ATI R520...Due out in May 05
24 "Pipelines"
32 Texture Units
96 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALU)
192 Shader Operations per Cycle
700MHz Core
134.4 Billion Shader Operations per Second (at 700MHz)
256-bit 512MB 1.8GHz GDDR3 Memory
57.6 GB/sec Bandwidth (at 1.8GHz)
300-350 Million Transistors
90nm Manufacturing
Shader Model 3.0
ATI HyperMemory
ATI Multi Rendering Technology (SLI)
Launch: Q2 2005
Performance: Over 3x Radeon X800 XT !!! (for single R520)

This was taken from extremesystems forum
Click to expand...


Those don't make any sense. How can a card that only has 50% more pipelines and less than 50% more core clock be three times faster? In that thread someone stated a more realistic goal for the R520: 16 pipe, 700 Mhz core.
 
Jonsey said:
Those don't make any sense. How can a card that only has 50% more pipelines and less than 50% more core clock be three times faster? In that thread someone stated a more realistic goal for the R520: 16 pipe, 700 Mhz core.
Click to expand...


Why would ati put this new core out with 16 pipes when the x850 has 16 pipes.

3 times faster is overhyping it but it will be about 1.5 times faster in real life than the 850 if these specs are true.

Or it could be a new core from ground up and be 3x faster .Who knows im just saying that the x850 prices will drope in 3 months when this hits.
 
skratch said:
Why would ati put this new core out with 16 pipes when the x850 has 16 pipes.

3 times faster is overhyping it but it will be about 1.5 times faster in real life than the 850 if these specs are true.

Or it could be a new core from ground up and be 3x faster .Who knows im just saying that the x850 prices will drope in 3 months when this hits.
Click to expand...

Since when does the number of pipelines increase every year? ATI and nvidia made a huge leap by doubling the pipelines in their new cards last year. I think the numerous delays, phantom launches and high prices are a testiment to just how hard these complex chips are to make. With the X800XL and X850XT it be argued that ATI has only just managed to create a 16 pipe core that has good yields, and we're not even sure of that yet. We've been spoiled by the performance increase of the last year. What makes you think ATI and Nvidia can do it again?
 
Because when ATI was talking about the card after the 9800 they said it would have 8 Extreme pipelines. We all know this to mean 16 pipelines. Now they are saying the new cards will have 16 Extreme Pipelines so most people are guessing 24 pipes.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Because when ATI was talking about the card after the 9800 they said it would have 8 Extreme pipelines. We all know this to mean 16 pipelines. Now they are saying the new cards will have 16 Extreme Pipelines so most people are guessing 24 pipes.
Click to expand...

So, by your logic, 1 extreme pipeline = 2 regular pipelines on the X800. So why would 16 extreme pipelines = 24 regular pipelines? By that logic 16 pipelines should equal 32 pipelines. It just doesn't make sense.
 
Im just saying they increse. You cant doubt that also with the 24 extreme could be on a pro version of their next card and teh 32 on the XTs.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Im just saying they increse. You cant doubt that also with the 24 extreme could be on a pro version of their next card and teh 32 on the XTs.
Click to expand...

That would double the number of transistors. How would they do that in such a short time? I could be wrong (I wouldn't mind being wrong, a 32 pipe card this year sounds nice) but I think people are just falling into that same old trap: hyping a product they really know nothing about. All they are doing is setting themselves up for disappointment when the product finally arrives and can't meet their impossibly high expectations.
 
Im not hyping it Im just saying what Ive heard about it. I too am slightly doubtful that this will happen for either Nvidia or Ati but hopefully it does.
 
It's great having a job, can finally afford to buy these wallet busters.

Back in the day, I had to use lunch money to buy my Voodoo3. :mad:
 
i hope people learn soon that UNLESS UR BILL GATES, YOU'LL NEVER CATCH UP WITH TECHNOLOGY LIKE THIS.

my 2c.
 
Juding by your specs any upgrade would be a major benefit to you. I would pre-order the X850XT PE if I were you and build a PCI Express system only. Do not go back to AGP :p Also letting you know there is a PCI Express revision 1.1 in the upcoming future :( How this will impact PCI Express 1.0 hardware is unknown.
 
Lee Enfield said:
So you think I should just go ahead and get the X850 XT PE instead of waiting? I mean jeesh look at my sig.
Click to expand...
Getting into a usable system now would seem to be a lot more important than what might happen nine months down the line. There is always something faster coming along. The thing to bear in mind is that this upgrade will be huge from your current system, and the X850 will play every game out there, or on the way, at the highest quality settings on most monitors.

oc
 
skratch said:
Even if this card is half of these specs nvidia should be very scared.
Click to expand...

Yes, because Nvidia just recently shut down R&D and decided that the 6800 series is the last card they will ever make, right?
 
Dr. X said:
Yes, because Nvidia just recently shut down R&D and decided that the 6800 series is the last card they will ever make, right?
Click to expand...

No smart ass because if the card specs are right ONE OF THESE will be faster than 2 6800's running in sli and forget about what 2 will do.
 
skratch said:
No smart ass because if the card specs are right ONE OF THESE will be faster than 2 6800's running in sli and forget about what 2 will do.
Click to expand...

And I'll say it again, this time a different way, you think Nvidia isn't also working on a new card, faster than the 6800s?
 
Dr. X said:
And I'll say it again, this time a different way, you think Nvidia isn't also working on a new card, faster than the 6800s?
Click to expand...

ATI made nvidia cancle 3 cards already.

When nvidia makes a new card to scare ATI ill be happy.ATI has been using the same tech from the r300 for the last 3 years and has said there next gen core will be 3x faster(r520 ?).

If you were nvidia wouldnt you be scared lol
 
Un4given said:
Their new flagship product is the X850XT PE, and it is just barely starting to show up. You won't have any new products by June.
Click to expand...

The true flagship would be an AIW version of that product.

For Built By ATI, as opposed to Powered By ATI, the All-In-Wonder variants have been the most capable, and have often been defined by ATI itself as *flagship* cards.

Also, a Built By ATI AIW x8xx is overdue.

I *would* like to see a 256 MB AIW X850XT (*not* a PE); and if they have licked the chip supply problem. it's actually doable (as even with 256 MB of RAM, the PCB of the X850XT is no larger than that of the 9800 Pro, which has half the RAM). Also, no AIW has shipped with 256 MB and AGP8X (the X850 in both XT and XT PE trim is AGP-only, amazingly enough).
 
I wouldn't worry too much about what ATI's flagship is. Especially because unless they change their history from the last several launches, it will take them MONTHS to get into your hands. If ever.

My advice - Don't buy the top of the line. Spend 50% and get 90% of the performance.

-dB
 
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