ATi Concedes Round 1

[BullseyeBob]

dumbest fucking thread ever.

i bet this guy voted for Bush and is SOOO proud of himself.

 

[Visable-assassin]

So to conclude:

6800... no ATI competitor
x800 Pro vs. 6800 GT... most people are calling this one for nVidia.
x800 XT vs. 6800 Ultra... inconclusive. The x800 XT has the advantage of being less physically bloated. Each is better at some things than the other.
x800 XT-PE vs. 6800 Ultra Extreme... both are vaporware, who cares?

Well there isnt a need to read on Castle pretty much says it all right here.

 

[Pharacon]

Hey just two cents!

I have a BFG OC 6800GT i run every damn game maxed out, i very satisfied, and on stock cooling! i run at 480/1100 and tears everything up! I think this is the best god damn video card i have ever purchased.

Way togo BFG!

Ohh yeah i voted for Bush and i'm DAMN proud of it! I dont support commie bastards that are traitors to their country

-Pharacon

 

[computerpro3]

um since when can these be flashed to unlock pipes? they laser burn this shit and completly disable thee things now id like to see a guide or somthing on this, and either way the 6800 series has better video quality so jam it up your ass

For a long time actually. This and your statements both show your true level of video card knowledge. Here, jam this up your ass buddy:

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38336

120 successes, 11 failures

http://www.3dgameman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27163&page=4

45 successes, 14 failures

http://www.vrforums.com/showthread.php?t=17910

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33766704&page=6

http://www.raptor-mods.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=608&st=0&#entry4427

What a loser fan-boy


And since I showed you proof of my statement, can you please show me proof of yours

the 6800 series has better video quality so jam it up your ass

???

I own several Nvidia cards and several ATI cards right now and beyond 3dmark I see NO differences EITHER WAY between image quality WHATSOEVER.

And BTW I don't prefer anal like you, asshole....

 

[computerpro3]

on stock cooling! i run at 480/1100

you either have by FAR the best gt ever produced or are a damn liar.

Proof?

 

[TheRapture]

What I do not understand is why the XT-PE is so hard to get in retail channels. There are ALOT of users out there that just bought the X800 Pro VIVO which has the IDENTICAL 1.6ns samsung ram as the XT-PE and is only BIOS locked to 12 pipes, and flashes them to 16 pipes and XT-PE speeds.


I bought two Sapphire X800 Pro VIVO's from newegg, 3 months apart, both of them are flashed to the giga XT-PE bios and run flawlessly at 520/560. They actually do quite a bit over those speeds as well. I mean, I tortured them every way imaginable, used ViperJohn's test methods, and both passed with flying colors.

Weird....

 

[TheRapture]

Some poor soul doesn't understand how video cards work.

See, with only 12 pipelines, you are operating at a severe handicap vs. the GT. Stock x800 Pros at 475/900 routinely lose to stock 6800 GTs at 350/1000. To match my 6800 GT @ 435/1.15, you would have to get your core up to about 580.

Oops.

I bought my VIVO for the same price I paid for my GT...flashed....tested. Now it is smacking the old GT around a bit...16 pipes and 540/580 clock speeds. Too bad ATI can't make a 16 pipe card stock, to compete with the 6800GT, at the same price point. IF the X800 Pro 12 piper were say, $50 LESS than the GT, it would be great. ATI just set too high a price point and did not count at NV busting out with a 16 pipe card at less than $400.

I liked my 6800GT....and between it and a STOCK X800 Pro, the GT wins, period. But once the 16 pipes are opened and overclocked, the ATI wins hands down.

 

[The Doomguy]

I'm too much of a tool to read...blah blah blah

Why don't you go back and re-read what he was saying IN CONTEXT. The person he was talking to has a X800Pro NON VIVO. All your links are to threads about the X800Pro VIVO. X800Pro != X800Pro VIVO.

Jesus Headhumping Christ, was that so hard? Just where the hell do you hail from? Doucheistan? Don't they teach you people how to read over there?

 

[darkpark]

dollar per FPS, which card gives one the best bang for the buck? is the price difference dramatic enough to warrant switching from one brand to another?

 

[DropTech]

I bought my VIVO for the same price I paid for my GT...flashed....tested. Now it is smacking the old GT around a bit...16 pipes and 540/580 clock speeds. Too bad ATI can't make a 16 pipe card stock, to compete with the 6800GT, at the same price point. IF the X800 Pro 12 piper were say, $50 LESS than the GT, it would be great. ATI just set too high a price point and did not count at NV busting out with a 16 pipe card at less than $400.

I liked my 6800GT....and between it and a STOCK X800 Pro, the GT wins, period. But once the 16 pipes are opened and overclocked, the ATI wins hands down.

And you didn't bother to overclock the GT? Just outta curiosity.. Based on your percentage overclock you'd have to do the GT at 435/1130 (someone check my math.. I hated that subject) to get comparaitive scores. If you did, then great. Nice it worked for you; either way you'd be happy. But if you didn't, I'd call it a little one sided (even though they're mild overclocks). But you're right on everything you said above. I was just curious if you had tested both overclocked.

Oh and to the person asking why they don't just sell the VIVO's as PE's, it's because of one issue or another. Sure, the ones that are running at XTE's bios' and speeds are PE's, but they probably didn't meet the thermal requirements of the OEM spec..

 

[The Doomguy]

And you didn't bother to overclock the GT? Just outta curiosity.. Based on your percentage overclock you'd have to do the GT at 435/1130 (someone check my math.. I hated that subject) to get comparaitive scores.

Your math is a little off. For starters you're not counting in the pipeline difference. Secondly, the NV40s yeild more performence per clock [that's why the 400mhz Ultra hangs with the 500mhz XT]. In other words if you oced 50 on the core of an NV40 and on a R420 expect the NV40 to yeild a higher performence delta from stock.

Or to simplify all that, a GT at 400/1100 would smash in his Pro's balls.

 

[computerpro3]

but they probably didn't meet the thermal requirements of the OEM spec..

Yup. I heard they bake test these things at like 80C. While the card may hit pe speeds @ 40C with an nvsilencer or in a well ventilated case, it can't do it for a long time under xtreme conditions. So for all intents and purposes they are fine for the [H]ardforums user but I wouldn't flash it and give it to your grandmother....

 

[DropTech]

Yup. I heard they bake test these things at like 80C. While the card may hit pe speeds @ 40C with an nvsilencer or in a well ventilated case, it can't do it for a long time under xtreme conditions. So for all intents and purposes they are fine for the [H]ardforums user but I wouldn't flash it and give it to your grandmother....

That's one of the reasons I bet that they had to use a dual slot cooler.. To get those temps down so they can get more out instead of having to toss alot of them for thermal issues; basically covering up for a mistake that shouldn't have been made. They knew the cards were gonna run hot.. They run hotter then 6800U's in most cases (OEM that is.., not nessicarly like you said, a well ventilated case).

I think someone said they turn all case fans off and PSU fans, leaving only the CPU and GPU running, and if the GPU or CPU doesn't pass the tests, they don't use 'em. It's actually pretty strict. This is also the reason most CPU's can run fairly warm in OEM's, it's because they're theoretically designed to take really high temps. Don't quote me on that though.

 

[skritch]

x800 XT-PE has been a joke, much hyped by ATI but impossible to get and comically overpriced for the minor performance gain over the x800 XT. The Big Lie you see repeated over and over, or just implied in benches posted by review sites, is that the x800 XT-PE is meant to compete with the 6800 Ultra, when it is the slower x800 XT that is priced like the Ultra and available like the Ultra. The x800 XT-PE might win the battle of the vaporware with the 6800 Ultra Extreme Edition, but with its inflated price and general non-availability, comparing it to the Ultra is just stupid.

So, you're saying that comparing the XT-PE to the Ultra is "stupid" because the XT-PE is a better card and therefore not a direct competitior with the Ultra (i.e., is in a higher performance class than the Ultra)?

Or are you saying that comparing the XT-PE to the Ultra is "stupid" because XT-PE's are more difficult to find, and more expensive when found?

Or are you saying both?


One could phrase this the other way: The XT-PE has no nVidia competition at all.

The XT-PE in my signature is a real, factory-sealed, out-of-the-box XT-PE. And yes, I paid quite a bit for it, from a respected vendor. I double-checked the product numbers, serial numbers, etc. with the manufacturers' reference information for that product line. They're hard to find, but they do exist.

I was actually waffling between the XT-PE and the Asus V9999 Ultra Deluxe (not the Gamer's Edition) when I was putting the system together. The XT-PE became available at the small set of vendors I was watching, and the V9999 never did. The Gigabyte version wasn't my first choice, but by the time I was putting the system together, it seemed like my only choice. I don't regret it at all, having spent the last week playing HL2 at 1600x1200, 8xAA, 4xAF.

 

[Chris_B]

What a great thread

 

[archevilangel]

Heh, atleast tfc wise(and older games) the 6800 gt owns all. 16xS aa , of course if you're still playing the older games you probably are playing competively. I did have an x800 pro at one point, it was nice, but I love my gt more.

 

[DropTech]

So, you're saying that comparing the XT-PE to the Ultra is "stupid" because the XT-PE is a better card and therefore not a direct competitior with the Ultra (i.e., is in a higher performance class than the Ultra)?

Accusations are one thing, but as Brent says "Proof?"
I dun blame you for not taking the ASUS thing though.. Overpriced -_-... inflamation on those cards is horrid.

Also, your comment about HL2 is great and all. But um.. So did I? and alot of other people that made similar purchases. o-O I dun regret my purchase.

 

[skritch]

Accusations are one thing, but as Brent says "Proof?"

Proof for what? I was asking a question, not making an assertion.

 

[DropTech]

Sounded opinionated to me. More of arrogent -- but now that I reread it thinking of it as a question, makes sense.. Whateva', sorry.

 

[ATW]

Funny because I have had my x800XT-PE for 3.5 months now, I paid less for it than they are charging for ANY of the 6800U's at newegg.com today.

I guess I am just an anomaly.

(BTW, vanilla XT's are selling for less than 6800U's by an average of about $50).

Ditto. The Nvidia brown nosers are obviously making up prices.

 

[The Doomguy]

Ditto. The Nvidia brown nosers are obviously making up prices.

Kinda easy to do when none of your kind provide links to in-stock and sanely priced etail.

 

[TheRapture]

And you didn't bother to overclock the GT? Just outta curiosity.. Based on your percentage overclock you'd have to do the GT at 435/1130 (someone check my math.. I hated that subject) to get comparaitive scores. If you did, then great. Nice it worked for you; either way you'd be happy. But if you didn't, I'd call it a little one sided (even though they're mild overclocks). But you're right on everything you said above. I was just curious if you had tested both overclocked.

Oh and to the person asking why they don't just sell the VIVO's as PE's, it's because of one issue or another. Sure, the ones that are running at XTE's bios' and speeds are PE's, but they probably didn't meet the thermal requirements of the OEM spec..

Yes, the GT ran at Ultra speeds (400/1100) but I never ran it higher than that...and my VIVO unlocked would hit 79c under load....after setting the fan to run at full speed at any temp over 60c it keeps to a max of 74c under extreme load. Well within spec.

 

[LoneWolf]

Round 1 of the new graphics generation, i.e. 6800 vs X800

nice try on the intelligent response though.

His response was intelligent. You said "Round 1". We haven't been at "Round 1" for years in 3D graphics, and since each new graphics card is a "new generation"...well you get the idea. Every time a new generation of cards come out, do we have a new "Round 1" so that every round is Round 1? That makes no sense whatsoever.

I have owned NVidia cards and ATI cards (just replaced my Radeon 9700 with a Geforce 6800). I disagree; ATI has not conceded anything, which is why the X850 is being released. To concede is to agree you have been beaten. ATI has not done this. Your post is nothing we really don't know.

 

[DropTech]

Yes, the GT ran at Ultra speeds (400/1100) but I never ran it higher than that...and my VIVO unlocked would hit 79c under load....after setting the fan to run at full speed at any temp over 60c it keeps to a max of 74c under extreme load. Well within spec.

Cool. My Ultra at 450/1200 never went above 78c. My brothers GT at 400/1000 gets up to that same thing... Hmm.. Congrats on your VIVO though.

 

[Tigerblade]

x800 XT-PE vs. 6800 Ultra Extreme... both are vaporware, who cares?

Yeah on the UE, but I must be imagining my card, like thousands of others.... wierd....

 

[DropTech]

Yeah on the UE, but I must be imagining my card, like thousands of others.... wierd....

Same can be said for the people that have the UE. Both are almost impossible to come by retail... OEM's even have them on backorder. The thing that's being said is that they're only pumping out a small number at a time...

 

[gordon151]

Same can be said for the people that have the UE. Both are almost impossible to come by retail... OEM's even have them on backorder. The thing that's being said is that they're only pumping out a small number at a time...

No it can't since the Ultra Extreme was never really an actual card specification in the first place. There were a number of cards which were classified as UE (that varied in speeds) and very few of them even made it to retail at all. The X800 XT PE situation may be limited, but its nothing in comparison to the 6800UE. I've seen two people to date with them, all evgas and one of them the person won. I however see more than a few people on these forums alone with real PE's.

 

[yossarian]

I love the day after Thanksgiving. Picked up a PNY 6800 for $200 (after the $70 instant and $30 mail-in rebate) at CompUSA. Not that I'm in the market for $400 video cards any more, but I'd be particularly hesitant with PCI-E systems coming out. I'm hoping this will last until THAT new technology gets more affordable so I can get a new MB, new processor, new memory, new....

This will replace my ATI 9700 Pro, I hope it lives OK with my ATI TV Wonder.

 

[UltimateMan]

First, if you want to classify “round one was years and years ago” as an intelligent response, fine. It appears we have different standards. Second, what round it is does not even matter. And apparently the only counter argument for my post that you can muster is that my post is “PR.” Why? Because it is well written?

If you break down my post (which I apparently have to do for you), it makes two simple points:

1) The 6800 series has outsold the X800 series.
2) Because of this, ATI is now creating new cards (the X850 series) that will more
directly compete with and fall in line with Nvidia’s video card offerings.

I also point out that (in my opinion) since ATI is following Nvidia’s lead by reworking its X800 series, ATI has essentially admitted defeat in some sense. Obviously since ATI is choosing to rework their new graphics card line so soon after its release, it is lacking in some way, whether it be sales, availability, demand, whatever.

 

[Xxplosiv]

i will take my x800 pro clocked at 550 core 570 memory against any of your 6800 gt's.

so you would take it above MY 6800 GT? 461/600??

 

[glynn]

ATI doesnt need to concede anything I own both an nvidia 6800GT and an X800XTPE both play and do games as promised on the box and reviews nothing more nothing less?It aint a football match.

 

[Xxplosiv]

ATI doesnt need to concede anything I own both an nvidia 6800GT and an X800XTPE both play and do games as promised on the box and reviews nothing more nothing less?It aint a football match.

or an election

 

[Deadly sk1llz]

Yes, I especially loved the allusion to 'voting for Bush' meaning you are dumb and got an Nvidia card. I applaud you for not only considering 'voting for Bush' is dumb, but also bringing in politics that have absolutely no baring upon this issue.

I see no concession for either ATi or Nvidia in sight. No one is 'losing'. Aren't both companies making money?

X800Pro vs. 6800GT
X800XT-PE vs. 6800Ultra

We've heard those arguements hundreds of times. One card doesn't DOMINATE another, because there are so many exceptions. If you pit one against another in specific cards, some beat others. (IE, x800pro VIVO flashed to XT against a GT)

By continuing on to develop another line that is similar to x800's, how is this conceding? This shows ATi wants to keep pumping out new cards while the higher level lines are being developed. Who says Nvidia isn't thinking about doing the same thing in the future? Is developing a faster card really that bad? I'd personally be happy with any sort of new card, I mean Jesus, most people don't even buy videocards, or, for that matter, 400 or 500 dollar videocards. [H]ard members, do, hardcore computer nerds do. (IE me.), but not everyone is conforming to you. As said before, x300 and x600 sales have done well for normal consumers buying at a higher market in systems. (Dell machines with PCIe)

 

[UltimateMan]

LoneWolf

Yes, I especially loved the allusion to 'voting for Bush' meaning you are dumb and got an Nvidia card. ...buying at a higher market in systems. (Dell machines with PCIe)

See this post for an intelligent response...

In response to Deadly Skillz...

I hear your point about both cards being competitive(which they ARE), but that is irrelevant! This has to do more with which cards are SELLING better.

To your point about the x300 and x600 cards selling well, you're right. ATI's market share definitely gets a boost there. Just keep in mind that I am not saying that ATI has officially lost the battle with Nvidia.

I am simply saying that the fact that ATI is changing their X800 series so soon after releasing indicates that it was inadequate in some manner. Not performance wise to be sure. But availability and sales? Certainly that is a possiblility.

 

[provoko]

Wow you guys are too serious. The topic starter just made a nice observation on the current state of the current series by ati and nvidia. No one had to get nasty, bring other analogies into it, or even bring up POLITICS! Hahaha, the hell is with that.

In general, a company thats leading in the market doesn't come out with a new product at the same price level because they would be competing with themselves. So I have to agree with UltimateMan since ATI is coming out with a new sub-series to compete with nvidia at same price level. Not only that, but you can see ATI is following nvidia's lead with SLI by coming out with their own version of SLI.

Leaders don't follow. Remember back then when 3dfx came out with a similar version of SLI, what did nvidia do, nothing, why, cause they were on top.

Nvidia has won the video card market with it's 6800 on every price level and you know it's true since on every forum all you hear is people talking about their 6800 or buying a 6800/6600 etc. It's the same amount of talk that the 9800 pro got, it's sooo obvious.

 

[skritch]

LoneWolf



See this post for an intelligent response...

In response to Deadly Skillz...

I hear your point about both cards being competitive(which they ARE), but that is irrelevant! This has to do more with which cards are SELLING better.

...which cannot be judged when neither can be kept in stock. All indications are that both cards sell out as soon as cards are supplied. The X800XT (the nomenclature from ATi for what everyone else calls the XT-PE) has buyers who have had the card on backorder since July, and still have not had the order filled.

That is not an indication of a poorly-selling product.

I am simply saying that the fact that ATI is changing their X800 series so soon after releasing indicates that it was inadequate in some manner. Not performance wise to be sure. But availability and sales? Certainly that is a possiblility.

Not necessarily. They are not changing their X800 series; they are introducing a new model into it. That says nothing about sales and availability. That simply says that the company had a product schedule, and we've reached the point where the X850 was scheduled to go forward. Companies don't pull products from their nether regions -- they are carefully researched, planned, and scheduled. The X850 didn't come from left field, as you suggest, to cover for some problem with X800 sales.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

i will take my x800 pro clocked at 550 core 570 memory against any of your 6800 gt's.

Having a X800Pro that will do 590 / 565 and a 6800GT that will do 430 / 1200, I'd take the X800..... Much better 2D and 3D seemed smoother on the ATI. Too bad the X800 is in my HTPC instead of the gaming rig.

Even a GT clocked at 450/625?.. I know a few guys around here that have a GT at 480/1300 or so...

The GT's start to loose performance over 430 core due to only one power plug....... Good luck with that 450-480 core score!

 

[Xxplosiv]

what makes you say that? my GT clocked at 430 core only gets around 5225(in 3dm05) while running at 450 i get 5300-5330, i can run all games at 461 core, but i havent tested it out yet in 05

 

[DropTech]

Having a X800Pro that will do 590 / 565 and a 6800GT that will do 430 / 1200, I'd take the X800..... Much better 2D and 3D seemed smoother on the ATI. Too bad the X800 is in my HTPC instead of the gaming rig.


The GT's start to loose performance over 430 core due to only one power plug....... Good luck with that 450-480 core score!

Yeah, if you keep the voltage at 1.3 with crappy cooling.. That would be throtteling..