Blackforge
Gawd
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DirectX 10.1 support required Vista SP1 in order to be enabled. That was only just recently pushed out to the public.
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ATI Comeback?
- Thread starter Nahu1337
- Start date
DirectX 10.1 support required Vista SP1 in order to be enabled. That was only just recently pushed out to the public.
Blackforge
Gawd
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And you still don't have anything doing 10.1 besides maybe a demo or something (haven't seen or looked for one), so its a wash.
Not at all unusual. I had no issues with my ATi cards. Here I am now dealing with crashing HL2: E2, flashing textures in R6V, and new drivers crashing during install!!! If there is one mistake I've made recently, it was switching to nVidia. There drivers are the most god awful crap that I have had the displeasure of dealing with for some time. They used to be tops in that category.
FUCK NVIDIA and their crappy ass drivers. The first opportunity I get to purchase an ATi card with similar performance....I'm fucking out of here!!!!
And make no mistake about folks, I've been an IT support person for 15 years now. I've built many personal, performance/gaming, and server level boxes. I've troubleshot, upgraded, and overhauled more computers than many of the members on this site. I've owned nVidia in the past, I've owned ATi, and at this point I am regretting making the switch.
I've been doing this a long time myself and I've never had a driver experience that bad out of ATI or NVIDIA.
NKDietrich
Supreme [H]ardness
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- 5,442
Me neither... I've had occasional glitches here and there but no widespread problems. I think that guy is misattributing problems caused by something else.
Quite possibly. Neither NVIDIA or ATI are ever that bad.
Hah! I wish it were that simple. I've not had any issues with many of my games, but I've had far more issues with these damn NV drivers than I've had with ATi drivers. At this point if If I had a choice of equal performance value in terms of cost, I would take ATi drivers any day of the week. It's not that the NV hardware is bad, because it isn't. It is the best performing hardware, for the money, that you can buy, but the driver support from NV has just nose dived to no end.
Right now I feel like I can trust the NV drivers about as much as I did when the 7xxx cards hit the market.
Right now I feel like I can trust the NV drivers about as much as I did when the 7xxx cards hit the market.
Funny. The NVIDIA drivers are better than they were when Vista came out. FAR better actually.
McCartney
Gawd
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Dan I have to ask, how do some of these posters get away with such vile attacks on Drivers that are great?
I mean... He blames the better drives on his issues.. Irresponsible imo.
I mean... He blames the better drives on his issues.. Irresponsible imo.
NKDietrich
Supreme [H]ardness
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Well we've heard nothing of these problems from anyone else, so what are we to believe? That NVIDIA's drivers are bad or that you've fucked up somewhere, or some other software is causing problems?
Quite simple...I call it like it is. I have no brand loyalty. My previous several processors were AMD, because they were the best. Intel released the C2D line of processors, so I bought a Q6600.
My previous video cards were ATi because they were the superior product. My current card is an 8800GT because it was the best hardware for the performance. Unforunately, NV has forgotten what it means to have good drivers. When NV had better hardware the 3dfx crowd was talking about better drivers. People were bitching about ATi drivers, so ATi went on a 30 day release schedule for drivers. NV has gone to about quarterly drivers, which haven't done squat, and beta drivers so bad you may as well be playing Russian Roulette. People wanted better drivers from ATi, and they delivered them. People don't want to admit that and still try to pull off the bad drivers as a reason not to buy ATi products...not that much different than how GWB sold the Iraq war to the American public, and the Nazis convinced the Germans that the Jews were bad.
Tell a lie long enough and often enough, and eventually people assume that it is the truth.
NKDietrich
Supreme [H]ardness
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You did NOT just make that comparison. Thats just fucking ridiculous. Log off, you need a reality check.
Well, as a matter of fact, I did just make that comparison. If you have a problem with that, stay the fuck out of this thread.
I'm hand out the shovels now... the shits getting deep in here.
As for my own opinion on drivers... I think nVidia has the better driver and has had the better driver since the start of it.
ATi has worked hard to get a stable driver and it took them along time, and even now they're still running into major bugs and having problems with their drivers.
I see ATi still has piss poor openGL and now is having more problems with d3d than they had in a while.
PS: this is why nVidia has better drivers people.... TWIMTBP
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_twimtbp_gameslist.html
ATi dont got this.
As for my own opinion on drivers... I think nVidia has the better driver and has had the better driver since the start of it.
ATi has worked hard to get a stable driver and it took them along time, and even now they're still running into major bugs and having problems with their drivers.
I see ATi still has piss poor openGL and now is having more problems with d3d than they had in a while.
PS: this is why nVidia has better drivers people.... TWIMTBP
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_twimtbp_gameslist.html
ATi dont got this.
What major bugs?
Cause none have affected me.
I dont think either company has horrid drivers.
Except in the case of Nvidia's Vista Drivers which caused more crashes in Vista than any other drivers.
Dan those comparisons in terms of those product lines from the past are opinions.
As were yours.
In my opinion the X800 was the better card. It was faster when it needed to be (Its lifetime) and had far better IQ.
The X1800 and X1900 had much better IQ and still do. The AF and texture shimmering BS from Nvidia with the 7800 and 7900 was there to keep there performance competitive. And even then they only tied at max. The X1800 was late the X1900 wasnt. The 8800 is now the better card. Its IQ (AF especially) is simply amazing and when compared to the 2900 series there was no comparison.
Are they doing bad? Yup.
Cause none have affected me.
I dont think either company has horrid drivers.
Except in the case of Nvidia's Vista Drivers which caused more crashes in Vista than any other drivers.
Dan those comparisons in terms of those product lines from the past are opinions.
As were yours.
In my opinion the X800 was the better card. It was faster when it needed to be (Its lifetime) and had far better IQ.
The X1800 and X1900 had much better IQ and still do. The AF and texture shimmering BS from Nvidia with the 7800 and 7900 was there to keep there performance competitive. And even then they only tied at max. The X1800 was late the X1900 wasnt. The 8800 is now the better card. Its IQ (AF especially) is simply amazing and when compared to the 2900 series there was no comparison.
Doom and Despair is an exageration.
Are they doing bad? Yup.
Megalomaniac
2[H]4U
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- Jul 27, 2004
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- 2,193
True, it might be that ATI isnt doing as much or playing as nice with the developers.
if Nvidia has a support staff dedicated to help developers, then yes, their hardware will play better.
But I see ATI start producing great quality GPUs thats to the merger with AMD. AMD has factories and technical knowhow that ATI could piggyback on, and start offering cheaper GPUs
This is years in the future. it will take at least 1 year, but probably more like 3 to really complete the merger.
My 7900GS works just fine with FSX SP1. It wasn't until SP2 that the CTDs started, which points the finger at MS for changing something (probably for the DX10 preview if I had to make a guess) that causes nVidia's driver to puke. If MS hadn't thrown up their hands and said they weren't going to do any further bug fixes to FSX I'd give them some more credit, but they've had this horrible, "sorry, not our problem" attitude about it. Oh well...I'll just use SP1 and go on with life.
ReubenRosa
Limp Gawd
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- Jul 29, 2004
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Ati's drivers for Vista have been better from the Get Go no one can dispute that. Nvidia has improved Greatly..but they still have a way to go.
Megalomaniac
2[H]4U
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have you read this?
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1287275
many people are saying it.
Vista was the POS. others might have contributed, but vista was a POS (still is) and might always be.
but at least it sounds like SP1 did something right.
they just need something to compete with the 8800 gts 512mb, other than that I hope they really concentrate on making the best radeon 4900 series they can make, theres just no point in releasing something like the 9800 gtx
alexgheseger
n00b
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- 16
Heard about the upcoming 3850x2? that's supposed to be ATi's answer to the 8800 GTS G92.
quinnyfizzle
n00b
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- Nov 19, 2006
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ATi is finally answering to a card that has been in the market for how long now?
The 9600GT card is an OVERCLOCKED card. Any benchmarks you see done with that are not even a fair comparison against any card which isn't overclocked. Its also not as fast as the 3870, doesn't support the latest OFFICIAL DX 10.1, Shader 4.1, or have DDR4 memory, HDMI output. And nor does it sell for $125. Please stop distorting the truth.
alexgheseger
n00b
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4 monthsish. Keep in mind though, this card will be an excellent answer to the 9800 GTX as well, which technically hasn't even been announced yet.
quinnyfizzle
n00b
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Just what do you expect of people to post in a thread titled "ATi Comeback?"
I made a valid point. One that should be noted.
Should we all fawn and praise ATi on every little whim without any form of criticism? Why even post?
RaDeonXtreme
Limp Gawd
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- Aug 27, 2004
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"dont call it a come back. I been here for years." LL cool J
you need to reign in your own bias my friend. fact of the matter is dx10.1 and sm4.1 are meaningless for the 3870 because it simply isn't powerful enough to take advantage of any graphical features these middlewares will provide. griping about a factory overclocked cards is really a pitiful rebuttal, different architecture, different clock speeds, its all academic. i mean, according to your argument, the 3870 has an unfair advantage because its core clock is higher than the 9600. i like the 3870, bought two of them at launch, but this kind of nonsense whining really makes us ati users sound petty.
MrWizard6600
Supreme [H]ardness
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- 5,791
Seems this threads a tad behind the times. The following specs seem like very safe bets at this point:
HD4k enthusiast will be based on two RV770s. Each RV770 has a 256bit bus, running 512mb or 1024mb of 4Ghz GDDR5 (~120-130GB/s net throughput). 32TMUs, 16 ROPs, 480 shaders, all clocked at a cool 900 to 1000MHz built on TSMCs 55nm process. I would be suprised if the performance decrease from AA and AF isn't severly reduced. The smallest performance increase is in the max raw pixel output, from 12Gpixels/sec on the HD3870 to 15Gpixels/sec on the enthusiast RV770. Total shader output has been nearly doubled, of course, the texture mapping performance has been increased almost 3 fold. I think this cards going to be a winner, --as long as Nvidias only response is the G92 and its Shrink. I suspect the transition from HD3k to HD4k will be very much like the transition from Geforce 6 to Geforce 7. Nothing radical, but logical enhancements in every area resulting in some serious net gain (ball park of 2 fold).
That said, some of the numbers of the GT200 are truely outrageos, though it is too early to claim any of them true. VR zone is claiming that Nvidia plans to push the GT200 out as the Geforce 9900 series as early as Q3 08, but I think thats bogus. The G92 shrink will be the 9900 series and the GT200 will be a new generation with possibly a seriously revamped naming scheme (which makes sense, if you are going to release a 2 Tflop monster, its probably best to clear the decks). One thing is for sure though, I'll be waiting till I get a more accurate picture of Nvidias road map, but I suspect it looks something like a G92 shrink in Q3 or Q4 08, and the GT200 in 1H 09.
Anyways, I've only been around since the FX5/Radeon 9 days, and since then I would honestly have to tilt the scales of what I've seen in ATIs favor. I won't walk down memory lane but when ATI has answered the call I would have to say that their products were generally superior. That said, this is hiensight, I saw things through green eyes throughout the Geforce 6 and 7 days.
HD4k enthusiast will be based on two RV770s. Each RV770 has a 256bit bus, running 512mb or 1024mb of 4Ghz GDDR5 (~120-130GB/s net throughput). 32TMUs, 16 ROPs, 480 shaders, all clocked at a cool 900 to 1000MHz built on TSMCs 55nm process. I would be suprised if the performance decrease from AA and AF isn't severly reduced. The smallest performance increase is in the max raw pixel output, from 12Gpixels/sec on the HD3870 to 15Gpixels/sec on the enthusiast RV770. Total shader output has been nearly doubled, of course, the texture mapping performance has been increased almost 3 fold. I think this cards going to be a winner, --as long as Nvidias only response is the G92 and its Shrink. I suspect the transition from HD3k to HD4k will be very much like the transition from Geforce 6 to Geforce 7. Nothing radical, but logical enhancements in every area resulting in some serious net gain (ball park of 2 fold).
That said, some of the numbers of the GT200 are truely outrageos, though it is too early to claim any of them true. VR zone is claiming that Nvidia plans to push the GT200 out as the Geforce 9900 series as early as Q3 08, but I think thats bogus. The G92 shrink will be the 9900 series and the GT200 will be a new generation with possibly a seriously revamped naming scheme (which makes sense, if you are going to release a 2 Tflop monster, its probably best to clear the decks). One thing is for sure though, I'll be waiting till I get a more accurate picture of Nvidias road map, but I suspect it looks something like a G92 shrink in Q3 or Q4 08, and the GT200 in 1H 09.
Anyways, I've only been around since the FX5/Radeon 9 days, and since then I would honestly have to tilt the scales of what I've seen in ATIs favor. I won't walk down memory lane but when ATI has answered the call I would have to say that their products were generally superior. That said, this is hiensight, I saw things through green eyes throughout the Geforce 6 and 7 days.
Distorting the truth? You are claiming that I'm talking about overclocked 9600 GT..becaues of what?
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...sli/24/#abschnitt_performancerating_qualitaet
http://plaza.fi/muropaketti/artikkelit/naytonohjaimet/nvidia-geforce-9600-gt-g94,4
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/21/g94_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_graphics_card
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/21/nvidia_geforce_9600_gt
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14168/1
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261002
Palit 9600 GT with better than reference cooler. $119 after rebate. It also has HDMI output
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Problem with HD3870's DX10.1 support:
1) No DX10.1 games in sight for near future. This is because like 10% have Vista and AMD has 25% market share in GPUs
2) HD3870 can't run DX10 well..it runs out of steam. If we exaggerate little bit this is like Geforce FX5200 having DX9 support: It's there, but it can't really do anything with it.
The 9600 GT is not as fast as a HD 3870 ? I recommend you actually read some reviews:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14168/5
I'm not even going to include the [H] review, otherwise you'll say it wins because it's overclocked...
Also, can you tell me which game uses DX10.1 ? I would really like to know, because...there is none. Having DX10.1 support right now, is nothing more than a gimmick to fool unknowing customers.
And you're right about not existing any GeForce 9600 GT for $125. The cheapest one is actually $119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261002
Megalomaniac
2[H]4U
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9600GT is the winner hands down now for the sub 150 market.
its not even a competition.
plus the SLI path seems to be better than the crossfire path, no?
one card is cheap, 2 are cheaper
its not even a competition.
plus the SLI path seems to be better than the crossfire path, no?
one card is cheap, 2 are cheaper
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
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uhmmm why are you guys talking about the 9 series in the wrong thread, in the wrong subsection your confuzzling the n00bs ..
By the way, I feel the 8 series remix known as the 9 series is a waste. I tested a 9600gt and yes it is fast but IQ is lacking and at 1920x1200 in a cod4 shipment match, you wanna kick the cat. well maybe thats just me.
For a $120 card its great but I wouldnt buy it again.
your confuzzling the n00bs ..By the way, I feel the 8 series remix known as the 9 series is a waste. I tested a 9600gt and yes it is fast but IQ is lacking and at 1920x1200 in a cod4 shipment match, you wanna kick the cat. well maybe thats just me.
For a $120 card its great but I wouldnt buy it again.
uhmmm why are you guys talking about the 9 series in the wrong thread, in the wrong subsection
By the way, I feel the 8 series remix known as the 9 series is a waste. I tested a 9600gt and yes it is fast but IQ is lacking and at 1920x1200 in a cod4 shipment match, you wanna kick the cat. well maybe thats just me.
For a $120 card its great but I wouldnt buy it again.
Get another 9600gt and try it in sli, you will be pleased.
For the money its the best bang for the buck out right now.
oh no thanks lol my friend bought one to hold him over while he waited for his gts (g92) from rma. At 1920x1200 he started lagging in game and he complained it didnt look the same. He tried to have evga rush next day ship his rma lmao
After this new hotfix from ati this 3870 is impressing me. its the lil engine that could. Think i will play with crossfire now as long as the second doesnt revert to 2d mode or some crazyness ...
After this new hotfix from ati this 3870 is impressing me. its the lil engine that could. Think i will play with crossfire now as long as the second doesnt revert to 2d mode or some crazyness ...
baddog121390
Limp Gawd
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