ATI/AMD Sapphire HD4850/4870 addressing issues

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delfincek

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I just posted this msg on Sapphire Forum about the issues with HD48XX cards. I'm posting also here as a proof together with a picture that was posted on the forum. So that we all know that we put it there and we can monitor if it will be eventualy deleted and put under the carpet. This will be a straightforward address through the forums another action a similar letter to the Sapphire support service and communication the management of Sapphire corporation on all levels.

Direct Link to the post on Sapphire Forums: http://forums.sapphiretech.com/showthread.php?p=132483#post132483

Proof of publishing on the Sapphire Forums please click for picture:

http://shrani.si/f/2s/mc/2kamuScP/sapphire.jpg


Text published:

Hello,

I would talk about sweet things aboout the product if it would work as it should if nothing needs to be modified in order to work on the default values. That was usualy for me when I bought a graphic card I did not have any problems to deal with and to loose hours sitting behind the computer and to find a proper fix to be able to run games on default values. But HD48XX is not working properly for the mass of users. As you all maybe know ppl are having problems with the card to run it on default values and they have PSUs that are more than adequate to run two cards. But as it turns out it is a powerplay problem that is messing things for lots of users. On FORUMS.AMD.COM there is a 20 page long thread about that problem and manly the problem is with Sapphire HD48XX cards and powerplay issue. People also exhanged Sapphire HD4870 for HIS product and HIS is working without a single problem. And we discovered that superior powerplay in BIOS is disabled. Some cards even does not have that option in BIOS.
It would be much more relaxing for custumers if Sapphire would just drop a sentence or two that they are exploring the issue and that they will provide a fix for that. But currently there is no official word from them or anybody from ATI/AMD bussines community. Users have this card already from June and now it is end of September. They will not wait all that heavenly time to expect the fix. I think that Sapphire if they put something on thair name should act more profesionaly and go forward with the official statement what is going on with the HD48XX cards that so many users have problems. I'm so scared that they will blame all other components but not graphic card that is problematic one.

Another thing that is on a level of all ATI/AMD cards is that ATI is aware of some flaw in the design of the card as it crippled Furmark benchmark test which run on the 1/2 of the performance in Catalyst 8.8 and 8.9 drivers. If Furmark.exe is renamed to eg. whatsoever.exe the test will run normaly as it should. But OK there is a heat yes and high current. I believe that HD48XX if run on the default values should survive any benchmark test and also Furmark. What will happend when one day the demanding games like Furmark will be comming out. Will we will be happy with the 1/2 performance in games so that HD48XX will not burn out?
We all know that Furmark is a stress test and it is sign if your whole system is stable. And yes my system is stable with it. I put a fan to 60% when I run it, default clock values and I do not have any intentions to overclock that card. I left it through the night and the system did not crashed. ATI/AMD is aware of that test that might damage cards which run on the default values for fan. It is clearly seen that the cooling for ATI/AMD 48xx cards is not properly planed. Users again found a workaround and found a solution with fan fix that cope with not sufficient cooling of ATI AMD. For testing experiences you can also rename CRYSIS.EXE to FURMARK.EXE and you will see a 1/2 drop of frame rate in Crysis. That is a proof that ATI/AMD is aware of potential danger with Furmark test.

A lot of users are currently very unhappy and that's why I think we are trying to find a fix that we are able to play games (on default values!) with the piece of hardware that we payed from our pocket. We will sure not endlessly wait for Sapphire fix.... there is not a single word from them not from ATI/AMD. And that is a shame for whole ATI/AMD bussines community, and everyday more and more ppl are aware of that problem.... and they are turned to more stable brands. This same msg will be put on all relevant internet Forums and additional version will be sent to the the management of Sapphire Tech. Co. directly in E-mail and regular post service.

all the best, D.
 
That's why I always buy diamond or vistiontek when I get ATi cards. :D

This sucks for all of the people with sapphire cards experiencing these issues.
 
If I was management at Sapphire I'd have to hire an interpreter to understand what the heck you are talking about.:eek:

One thing you need to understand, the sheer size of the post is a turn off.
It rambles on and makes no consistant points.
You need references to your argument and proof the card is having problems.

I have two Sapphire 4870 X2 cards and they run just fine. Currently Crysis Warhead and STALKER ClearSky run just fine on maximum settings. I don't run benchmarks, I use my cards to play games. My fans cool my cards to high 60 low 70C in 3D use.
Both throttle down in 2D.
I had to make some fan profiles, but so what. I have always used RivaTuner so it's nothing new.
Should it be fixed, yes.
Is there an alternative fix,yes. You just have to be smart enough to know how to read.
 
magoo said:
If I was management at Sapphire I'd have to hire an interpreter to understand what the heck you are talking about.:eek:

One thing you need to understand, the sheer size of the post is a turn off.
It rambles on and makes no consistant points.
You need references to your argument and proof the card is having problems.

I have two Sapphire 4870 X2 cards and they run just fine. Currently Crysis Warhead and STALKER ClearSky run just fine on maximum settings. I don't run benchmarks, I use my cards to play games. My fans cool my cards to high 60 low 70C in 3D use.
Both throttle down in 2D.
I had to make some fan profiles, but so what. I have always used RivaTuner so it's nothing new.
Should it be fixed, yes.
Is there an alternative fix,yes. You just have to be smart enough to know how to read.
Click to expand...

+1 :rolleyes:
 
Just the information that the thread about 4870 make the pc crash was locked by the Sapphire forum moderator and post deleted.

Sorry that this post was not so clear enough but that was the least what I could do in a limited time that I have. Thread on Sapphire forum can be found here http://forums.sapphiretech.com/showthread.php?t=20597 and some of the posts that provided temporary solutions to the problem with powerplay and fanfix were also deleted. When you read all the thread then you read the topic i posted today FOR POST CLICK. Sorry for not being so clear though but sure native speakers are invited to help to move that thing forward.

Still the debate is going on on the offical AMD/ATI Forum here where ATI user community provided temporary fix for all those ppl that are having problems with games crashing (powerplay fix) and temperature problem (fan fix). ATI/AMD Forums on 4870 crashing. About the evidence it can be found on on the same exact thread of ATI/AMD where users are pointing to same exact names of the games that are crashing and when applying the temporary Powerplay fix all is stable. It is some reading but sure.... it is and interesting one for an enthusiast.

all the best, D.
 
I looked at the ATI forum.......there were like three guys there whining about problems in one specific game or another, their problems were not universal.

The Sapphire forums are just ridiculous yelling and screaming, although the moderators are just as ridiculous as the posters.

If you have an issue with one particular game, then you need to contact the game support.

If you can obtain another card of any kind and test it out in your problem game, that's what I'd do first. Of course another brand of 4870 would be the best choice, and if it runs clean, you can RMA the card to Sapphire for replacement.
 
The same problem is going on here in Norway with cards from Sapphire, and the only way to fix this is to disable powerplay.
It seams the problem shows up when a game is not maxing out the card it will switch back to 2D clocks and so on.
Some vendors set the powerplay clocks to 750 and not 500 like Sapphire to prevent this problem-
 
Robin B said:
The same problem is going on here in Norway with cards from Sapphire, and the only way to fix this is to disable powerplay.
It seams the problem shows up when a game is not maxing out the card it will switch back to 2D clocks and so on.
Some vendors set the powerplay clocks to 750 and not 500 like Sapphire to prevent this problem-
Click to expand...

You all do realize that Sapphire manufactures the cards for nearly all the ATI vendors.
I can't seem to understand how this would be a problem exclusive to just Sapphire??
Although if Sapphire sells the most ATI branded cards, they will have a higher statistical risk.
Perhaps other vendors manipulate the card's BIOS to elimanate the problem......but I have examined all 4 of my cores and each ramps up to 750 in 3D and throttles down to 507 in 2D just like they are supposed to.
 
I will get my 4870 from Sapphire tomorrow, will let you all know how this turns out. But like i said, disable the powerplay in the bios will most likely solve this problem, like it has for others.
 
After reading all that it just enforces why you stay away from Sapphire stuff. We know many vendors modify their BIOS for different reasons and it's quite apparent Sapphire doesn't know what they're doing.

My Visiontek HD4870s don't have any of those issues. My Powerplay has worked correctly from day one. I have done the fanspeed fix but that was strictly for peace of mind. I would top out at about 82c under load on both GPUs with default fan speeds which was well within spec but not with me. Now with my fanspeed at 33% I hit 63c load.
 
Dear members of Hard Forum I have one good news to input. We the users of Sapphire HD4870 and ATI/AMD forum users put some collective pressure on Sapphire so they manage to put out a test BIOS and I can report that is helping with this issue where less demanding games crashed, freezed with checkboard, black, brown or gray screen with vertical stripes and looping sound.

here you can read more CLICK. Interesting reading from page 24 onwards. Here I'm puting also instructions for all those Sapphire HD4870 users that are afected by this bug.


You can flash your Sapphire HD4870 if you have:

Sapphire Radeon HD4870 512MB DDR5
Originalni bios on board with date: 24.07.2008 (you can check this with ATI CCC)
BIOS ver: 011.006.000.003.000000 (you can check this with ATI CCC)
BOX NUMBER: SKU 11133-00-20R on a green sticker on your box

You can obtain bios here:

SapphireTech: http://www.sapphiretech.com/global/lib_files/44.zip

Rapidshare: http://rapidshare.com/files/148339275/Sapphire_HD4870_working.zip.html

Inside ZIP file is a bios. The best way to flash is from DOS. Bootable USB stick, bootable CD or in last case bootable diskette (not recommended) should be prepared prior to flash and then.

you need latest atiflash program v3.60 with which you will flash and a bios which you must extract from that ZIP file. You put all this on a bootable USB stick or bootable CD or bootable diskette. In motherboard bios you need to select to boot from USB stick, CD or diskette.

After booting from this media you need to enter this command

atiflash -f -p 0 1e8501sa.002

wait till tells you to reset the computer remove bootable media and reset the computer.

Enjoy gaming.



ADDITIONAL EXPLANATIONS: atiflash -f -p 0 1e8501sa.002

atiflash ...... is the name of the flash programme

-f -p .... are the parameters for force flashing and programing

0 .... zero it means card in the first PCI-E slot (usualy is this) if you have more cards then you can also put 1

1e8501sa.002 .... is the name of the bios provided by Sapphire today and it helps to solve the issues.

To make USB Bootable you can download this creator: USB Boot Drive HPUSBFW

cao, D.
 
They don't want you turning off Powerplay by editing the .xml files because "that can cause disasters" -- but flashing the bios -- NO PROBLEMO MAN.

-1 Sapphire.
 
Hey,
it was not only a powerplay problem. Before that I used a modified profile with which I set the core speed to 750MHz. It helped some games but Timeshift still crashed even though the powerplay fix was enabled. Whenever I go to Timeshift I got a freeze in 1 do max 2 minutes. Now with new bios everything is all right I can play it for hours. Bios is a keeper. But yes it is hard for users that do not know what flashing and bios is.
I would say good that the fix is out +1 as I would RMA the card and would take another one, but bad on the other side as we had to go through all that sharade -1.

0 for Sapphire :).

EDIT: you can now also find BIOS for Sapphire HD4870 512MB on Sapphire official site under the drivers section.

all the best.
 
Despite all I said, you guys did good work to get Sapphire to pay attention and help fix your problem.

Flashing a BIOS can be tricky, so I give a fail for that.......and what if you screw up and break the card???? Will Sapphire honor an RMA???

Anyway, glad it worked out well for you all.;)
 
Cant see why this sucks at all, new bios out and its not harder to flash it than a mainboard. :rolleyes:
 
Robin B said:
Cant see why this sucks at all, new bios out and its not harder to flash it than a mainboard. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Correct. But if you take a quick look at their forum Nazis -- if you even mention editing fan profiles, powerplay adjustments, etc -- you are basically dancing with the Devil and your card with asplode in mere minutes -- shortly afterwords deleting your thread. Then to recommend flashing the bios? Although not difficult, a bios flash is exponentially riskier than a fan speed adjustment in your .xml file.
 
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