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ATI 6000 series?

It sounds like they are not bringing out the big guns until 28nm. Which will probably mid to late 2011
 
It would be nice to have a refresh sometime between sep-oct and "norther islands" in Q1/11 to coincide with Zambezi.
 
so the 6xxx series will just be refreshed and more efficient 5xxx's? interesting....
 
I wonder if they'll be 6000 card or if they'll wait on that name til a new card from scratch comes out.

From the sound of that article, it sounds more like a refresh. 5855? 5875?
 
The high-end, multi-monitor multi-GPU, looks to be out of AMDs grasp for the rest of the year. They would need a REALLY big jump just to close the gap and nVidia is going to refresh the 480 this fall its looks. At the lower end all AMD has to do is cut some prices to be competitive.
 
Maybe I read the article wrong but HIS just said "New AMD 6-series GPU this fall" there was nothing but random speculation in the article based on a vague statement by HIS. Not really useful news as far as I can tell.
 
heatlesssun said:
It was pretty clear that this is just a refresh minor if the article is correct.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

one early article based on remote speculation does not prove something to be true; no matter how badly you want it to be so. Lets wait for confirmation by other reputable sources before declaring something as fact.
 
heatlesssun said:
It was pretty clear that this is just a refresh minor if the article is correct.
Click to expand...

The article doesn't actually say *anything* about what the 6xxx series will or won't be. Really, the article spent a lot of words to basically say "new shit later this year, no details"

We already know it is a mashup of Evergreen and Northern Island on 40nm - that came out months ago.

heatlesssun said:
The high-end, multi-monitor multi-GPU, looks to be out of AMDs grasp for the rest of the year. They would need a REALLY big jump just to close the gap and nVidia is going to refresh the 480 this fall its looks. At the lower end all AMD has to do is cut some prices to be competitive.
Click to expand...

All AMD has to do is fix CF+Eyefinity scaling to be on par with regular CF scaling and they are right back in the multi-monitor multi-GPU game. Throw in say a 30% performance increase from the refresh and ATI will take back the single GPU crown and the multi-GPU single-monitor crown and the multi-GPU multi-monitor crown.

At least, until Nvidia comes out with their refresh and attempts to take it back, of course.

jonneymendoza said:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/..._ATI_s_Southern_Islands_to_Show_Up_in_Q4.html

Looks like it will compete with the 460?
Click to expand...

It isn't one card, it is an entire lineup of cards.
 
heatlesssun said:
It was pretty clear that this is just a refresh minor if the article is correct
Click to expand...

edifyingkarma said:
:rolleyes:

one early article based on remote speculation does not prove something to be true; no matter how badly you want it to be so. Lets wait for confirmation by other reputable sources before declaring something as fact.
Click to expand...

Read the part in yellow again. "If", the most powerful word in the English language.;) Who said anything about this being a fact?:confused:
 
kllrnohj said:
The article doesn't actually say *anything* about what the 6xxx series will or won't be. Really, the article spent a lot of words to basically say "new shit later this year, no details"
Click to expand...

Yes it does...

Not a lot is known about the Southern Islands family of products. The SI family will offer higher performance compared to currently available ATI Radeon HD 5000 “Evergreen” line, but will hardly be considerably more advanced in terms of feature-set. It is rumoured that designers of the new GPUs concentrated mostly on improving efficiency, but not on building something completely new from scratch, which is why certain building blocks of the new Sothern Islands family will be inherited from the current Evergreen line.
Click to expand...

Does that sound like a major update? I'm not saying that it's correct but it certainly says that it's NOT a major update. Now performance wise, who knows?

kllrnohj said:
All AMD has to do is fix CF+Eyefinity scaling to be on par with regular CF scaling and they are right back in the multi-monitor multi-GPU game. Throw in say a 30% performance increase from the refresh and ATI will take back the single GPU crown and the multi-GPU single-monitor crown and the multi-GPU multi-monitor crown.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they're working on that but you make it sound as though that's easy, look how long it took nVidia to get Surround out the door. The thing is Surround IS SLI whereas Eyefinity and CF are not as tightly integrated apparently which is why I guessed that nVidia would have a better multi-monitor, multi-GPU solution when Surround got out the door. At any rate, all I said was for the rest of the year, that's less than six months.

If AMD comes out with something better than I have and has 3D support I'll buy it. I'm a fanboy of the fastest and most powerful stuff I can afford. I don't give a rat's ass if it comes from nVidia or AMD.
 
Last edited:
heatlesssun said:
Yes it does...

Does that sound like a major update?
Click to expand...

1) It says it will be faster - no shit, doesn't say (or even imply) anything about how much

2) Doesn't add new features - no shit, there isn't a new DX version to support and outside of that video cards rarely add new features.

3) Concentrates on improving efficiency - no shit, ATI has been doing that for 2 generations now

4) It mixes parts from Evergreen and Nothern Islands - no shit, we've known that for months

So, yeah, doesn't say anything.

I'm sure they're working on that but you make it sound as though that's easy, look how long it took nVidia to get Surround out the door. The thing is Surround IS SLI whereas Eyefinity and CF are not as tightly integrated apparently which is why I guessed that nVidia would have a better multi-monitor, multi-GPU solution when Surround got out the door. At any rate, all I said was for the rest of the year, that's less than six months.
Click to expand...

Yes, but Eyefinity was developed in secret from the engineers building the card. Now that the engineers know that 2560x1600 isn't the upper resolution limit for the render pipeline, they can address any bandwidth bottlenecks that might be causing a problem. If, for example, the CF link is simply bandwidth starved at Eyefinity resolutions, increasing bandwidth could result in an easy fix to the problem. ATI and Nvidia both have some damn smart engineers ;)

And the 6xxx series is supposed to be out this year.
 
kllrnohj said:
It doesn't need to be crazy huge at all. The GTX 480 has 3.2 billion transistors, the 5870 has 2.15 billion transistors, and the GTX 480 has a die size that is 58% larger than the 5870. ATI has plenty of room on 40nm still, especially now that 40nm is more mature.
Click to expand...

(Quoted form the other thread, really need to combine these.)

Anyway I agree with this take on it. I'm not sure why everyone keeps talking about it being some mid-range card to compete with the GTX460. Looking at ATi's recent track record they aren't really known for putting out just "What they have" so much as what they want and as stated above they've had time and they have breathing room. Additionally with some minor exceptions they aren't known for rebadges like Nvidia. I don't mean to come off as a fanboy(trust me I've got GTX 460 1GB's in TD cart), but I think it's pretty likely the 6 series will boast a Typical ATi line of 3 tiers out the door something matching a 5870 in the low-end, a high-end matching the 5790(though single GPU), and something in the middle maybe matching or a bit above a GTX480.

Who knows I'm guessing as much as the article, but I mean this doesn't seem hurried. the 5-series been out since last September no? I just don't see a plain jane refresh happening.

heatlesssun said:
I'm sure they're working on that but you make it sound as though that's easy, look how long it took nVidia to get Surround out the door. The thing is Surround IS SLI whereas Eyefinity and CF are not as tightly integrated apparently which is why I guessed that nVidia would have a better multi-monitor, multi-GPU solution when Surround got out the door. At any rate, all I said was for the rest of the year, that's less than six months.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but Nvidias been in the pooper for a couple years now? I dont mean to go all charlie here, but Nvidias Surround was more reactionary to Eyefinity than some super secret tech thats been testing for 3 years. Nvidias GTX4XX was delayed by manufacturing issues that ATi has not been largely affected by.
 
kllrnohj said:
Yes, but Eyefinity was developed in secret from the engineers building the card. Now that the engineers know that 2560x1600 isn't the upper resolution limit for the render pipeline, they can address any bandwidth bottlenecks that might be causing a problem. If, for example, the CF link is simply bandwidth starved at Eyefinity resolutions, increasing bandwidth could result in an easy fix to the problem. ATI and Nvidia both have some damn smart engineers ;)

And the 6xxx series is supposed to be out this year.
Click to expand...

Eyefinity was developed in secret from the GPU designers? I haven't a clue about that but that doesn't sound like very good team work. But if what you say is the case then maybe it's not as a big of a challenge as I'm thinking.

nVidia has its own fall refresh as well. I've budgeted for $1500 in new GPUs and whoever has the BEST performing solution will get my money, assuming there's anything much better than what I have currently. For me, and I know that most people don't care about it, the big caveat to that will be 3D. I'm TOTALLY enthralled with the tech and I simply can't see giving it up. Even its just a few games here and there its just damned cool. I know AMD is working with 3rd parties so we shall see.
 
piscian18 said:
Yeah, but Nvidias been in the pooper for a couple years now? I dont mean to go all charlie here, but Nvidias Surround was more reactionary to Eyefinity than some super secret tech thats been testing for 3 years. Nvidias GTX4XX was delayed by manufacturing issues that ATi has not been largely affected by.
Click to expand...

Couple of years, the 2xx and 4xxx were pretty damned competitive. Yes nVidia has been behind from last Septemeber until really the end of June with the Surround driver and now with the 460 they pretty much are more then back in the game.

The reason though nVidia was behind AMD hardware wise is the SIZE of the GF100, its the most complex GPU ever built. But it may have been worth it because it looks to be VERY scalable, up and down, and tweakable, ala GF104 and the other variants. We all await AMD's next part in the meantime.
 
Stupac said:
how did you get that from the article?

they said this info may have been released to distract people from talking about the 460, not competing against it, lol
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why everyone keeps talking about it being some mid-range card to compete with the GTX460.
Click to expand...
- forum not article.

No, I didn't get anything from the article. It's stated the obvious but comforting fact that new cards are on the way this year. I think the assertion that ATi is somehow getting nervous over the GTX460 release is unrealistic. Kinda imagining that "Mission accomplished" poster with GTX460 in the header.
 
heatlesssun said:
Eyefinity was developed in secret from the GPU designers? I haven't a clue about that but that doesn't sound like very good team work. But if what you say is the case then maybe it's not as a big of a challenge as I'm thinking.
Click to expand...

Anand did an article on that and yes it was literally top secret. Teamwork or not it really did strike nvidia by surprise... hell it even struck the ATI higher ups by surprise.

Long story short... some OEM's wanted 6 ports on a card but only 2 active at a time. Some guy said "what a shame... if only more than 2 can be active..." and here we are.
 
piscian18 said:
- forum not article.

No, I didn't get anything from the article. It's stated the obvious but comforting fact that new cards are on the way this year. I think the assertion that ATi is somehow getting nervous over the GTX460 release is unrealistic. Kinda imagining that "Mission accomplished" poster with GTX460 in the header.
Click to expand...

AMD may not be nervous about it but they now have to drop their prices on their best selling parts and I imagine that's not something they are cheering about.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Anand did an article on that and yes it was literally top secret. Teamwork or not it really did strike nvidia by surprise... hell it even struck the ATI higher ups by surprise.

Long story short... some OEM's wanted 6 ports on a card but only 2 active at a time. Some guy said "what a shame... if only more than 2 can be active..." and here we are.
Click to expand...

Fascinating. Well AMD was able to ride that for 10 months so that was good. But if it did indeed hamper them now that its their turn to respond perhaps it was a little too secret. I've never much been a fan of the left hand not knowing that the right was doing as that has a tendency to backfire im my experience. Surround may not have been a surpise but I do wonder if AMD realized that nVidia could beat them at three screens with a software only solution?
 
More efficient is good, but it doesn't sound like it will be a large upgrade from the HD5000 series. Only time will tell. ;)
 
Such brand loyalty! It burns my eyes when read. It is too bad that the objective route is so unpopular.

Heres to hoping that ATI drops a bomb on Nvidia with the 6000 series forcing Nvidia to go nuclear on ATI. Pray for that sort of trend to continue evermore! A third competitor would be even sweeter. :eek:
 
edifyingkarma said:
Heres to hoping that ATI drops a bomb on Nvidia with the 6000 series forcing Nvidia to go nuclear on ATI. Pray for that sort of trend to continue evermore!
Click to expand...

Here here!

This is why I like ATI getting a 10 month head start while nVidia got Fermi ready. This gave ATI time to be top dawg but also gave them time to develop their next big thing. Hopefully in the next few months theyll go medieval on their asses and then vice versa. Competition is great for consumers.
 
edifyingkarma said:
Such brand loyalty! It burns my eyes when read.
Click to expand...
And burns your wallet! Falling in line behind a company no matter what never results in anything good (plus corporations will never love them back). And if a company has more market share than their competitor, it's actually good for the larger company to flounder for a while while the smaller one catches up. When they reach 50/50, consumers win. Acutally, consumers would win even more if it were 25/25/25/25, but that's certainly not happening anytime soon.
 
I had heard the card was to launch quite a bit sooner than next year. Tho if TSMC is filled to the brim this might be the reason why it might be slightly delayed.

I wish they would use Globalfoundries 40nm but that likely is a small part of its overall production.and focused more on Bobcat and other customers offerings and likely cant run ATI products.

I cant wait until ATI 7x series tho. All indications are for very very good yields. Meaning prices will be great and performance very nice.
 
Zachstar said:
I wish they would use Globalfoundries 40nm but that likely is a small part of its overall production.and focused more on Bobcat and other customers offerings and likely cant run ATI products.
Click to expand...
Globalfoundries already has plans to have 28nm out by the end of the year. It's just the simpler variety for low-power devices like phones and stuff (although even that is exciting), but graphics cards won't be far behind.
 
For anyone who has not read the anatech article about the makings of Eyefinity I highly recommend reading it.
 
heatlesssun said:
Fascinating. Well AMD was able to ride that for 10 months so that was good. But if it did indeed hamper them now that its their turn to respond perhaps it was a little too secret. I've never much been a fan of the left hand not knowing that the right was doing as that has a tendency to backfire im my experience. Surround may not have been a surpise but I do wonder if AMD realized that nVidia could beat them at three screens with a software only solution?
Click to expand...

Nvidia isn't using a software-only solution, though. Why do you think Surround has hardware limitations, like that it must be a GTX 260 or higher? Surround is an extension of SLI Mosaic.
 
kllrnohj said:
Nvidia isn't using a software-only solution, though. Why do you think Surround has hardware limitations, like that it must be a GTX 260 or higher? Surround is an extension of SLI Mosaic.
Click to expand...

I understand that Surround is an extension of SLI Mosaic and that some hardware was added I guess starting at GTX 2xx to support it. Fair enough. But the implementation of Surround is definitely more software-centric than Eyefinity as it will work in Vista and 7 and Surround on in 7 as it requires WDDM 1.1. And I doubt that anything prior to GTX 2xx would have delivered stellar performance in at least larger Surround resolutions and spending a lot of time on supporting 2+ year old hardware would have been a waste for nVidia anyway.

At any rate it was the SOFTWARE that we waited for for 10 weeks after the hardware was complete, unless of course if you had a GTX 2xx and waited for two years!:)
 
southerislands is going to be nothing spectacular may be max 25% faster then evergreen from the looks of it, that is probably the best case scenario. May be improved tessellation and uncore design, kinda hybrid between NorhternIslands. NorthernIslands is probably not a wise decision on 40nm thus you won't see it this year. I have a really good feeling that NorhterIslands is going to be one hell of a power/performance ratio card. I hope it is a big leap forward in dx11.
 
I don't understand what's the complaints are for
25% increase at the same power envelope is a great thing, Currently NV has a 10-20% lead in performance with nearly what, 70% increase in power? so if the 6000 series can give GTX480 #s with 5870 power #s, that would be good.
 
Don't wait for anything cause no matter how long you wait or when you buy, there will always be something better right around the corner.

Wait for the Fermi cards then hear the 6000 cards are coming. Wait for the 6000 cards then hear the next gen Fermi cards are coming out. And round and round we go.

Just buy what you want now.
 
Gym Rat said:
Just buy what you want now.
Click to expand...

Bingo! There's a couple of caveats to that however. There's nothing wrong with waiting to get to a certain level of features or performance and you probably don't want to buy like the DAY before a major release and of course if you buy early in a product cycle you're generally go to get a little more life out of the product.

But waiting as a way avoid buyers remorse is a lot waiting a little enjoying.;)
 
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