ati 10k

oooo sounds good, just the thread I was looking for.

I'm wondering what cards they're going to bring out before HL2 and Doom3. Which will be the highest-end/best one from ATI? :)

512mb? :D Direct X 9.1 technology too.

Will it be worth upgrading from a 9800XT (I think so)?
 
Originally posted by Blad3
oooo sounds good, just the thread I was looking for.

I'm wondering what cards they're going to bring out before HL2 and Doom3. Which will be the highest-end/best one from ATI? :)

512mb? :D Direct X 9.1 technology too.

Will it be worth upgrading from a 9800XT (I think so)?
Click to expand...

there is no directx 9.1
 
That's what the new cards are for? I have an article on them:

R4xx / NV4x:

"It will feature key technologies from DirectX 9.1 - Pixel Shader 3.0 and Vertex Shader 3.0". PCZ

"as will the 32bit processing precision required by the next generation of DirectX." - PCZ.
 
i repeat, there is no dx 9.1

it is simply a rumor at this time

DX9 already includes shader 3.0
 
Ok I appreciate the info.

SO you're telling me the new cards are going to be nothing more than overclocked 9800XTs? Which isn't a bad thing but it seems as though it's hardly worth upgrading from an XT to the "next gen" (if they are) cards if it isn't going to play HL2 or D3 with better gfx or much faster (XT is already easily, easily fast enough. 9800np most likely is fast enough to play them both at full detail.)

...Rumor, but possibly true?
 
Originally posted by Blad3
Ok I appreciate the info.

SO you're telling me the new cards are going to be nothing more than overclocked 9800XTs? Which isn't a bad thing but it seems as though it's hardly worth upgrading from an XT to the "next gen" (if they are) cards if it isn't going to play HL2 or D3 with better gfx or much faster (XT is already easily, easily fast enough. 9800np most likely is fast enough to play them both at full detail.)

...Rumor, but possibly true?
Click to expand...

i'm telling you nothing of the like

all i'm saying is that the current DirectX9 has VS/PS 3.0 support already, all we need is the hardware and applications to use it

the next cards will most likely support ps/vs 3.0 in hardware
 
Yes, which is what I thought (hardware support for 3.0 instead of just software.)

So agreed.
 
Originally posted by Blad3
Ok I appreciate the info.

SO you're telling me the new cards are going to be nothing more than overclocked 9800XTs? Which isn't a bad thing but it seems as though it's hardly worth upgrading from an XT to the "next gen" (if they are) cards if it isn't going to play HL2 or D3 with better gfx or much faster (XT is already easily, easily fast enough. 9800np most likely is fast enough to play them both at full detail.)

...Rumor, but possibly true?
Click to expand...

You're also discounting any architectural improvements over current cards. So, they're not just "overclocked XTs"
 
Originally posted by Blad3
Yes, which is what I thought (hardware support for 3.0 instead of just software.)

So agreed.
Click to expand...

there is no software that uses shader 3.0 right now

all we have is API support, no applications, no hardware
 
OK, but there will be and we'll need support for it in hardware, which is why I orginally mentioned direct X 9.1, as I read in an PC magazine article. :D

You're also discounting any architectural improvements over current cards.
Click to expand...
See orginal post.
 
Brent What will be the function of Shader 3.0, ie what are the additions to 2.0.

Will it be more programme friendly?
 
Originally posted by Blad3
OK, but there will be and we'll need support for it in hardware, which is why I orginally mentioned direct X 9.1, as I read in an PC magazine article. :D

See orginal post.
Click to expand...
I read PC Magazine until I realized a good portion of their news is misquoted info from various internet sources, occasionally some of the sources are us.
Ignore PC Magazine...
a day late, a dollar short, misinformed and quite often just plain wrong.
 
Originally posted by Blad3
oooo sounds good, just the thread I was looking for.

I'm wondering what cards they're going to bring out before HL2 and Doom3. Which will be the highest-end/best one from ATI? :)

512mb? :D Direct X 9.1 technology too.

Will it be worth upgrading from a 9800XT (I think so)?
Click to expand...

i call dibz on your 9800xt when the radeon x1 or whatever its called comes out :)
 
Originally posted by Blad3
OK, but there will be and we'll need support for it in hardware, which is why I orginally mentioned direct X 9.1, as I read in an PC magazine article. :D

See orginal post.
Click to expand...

i give up
 
Yeah i'm sure they're just rumours, not 100% accurate.

Brent answer the other guys question on Pixel Shaders etc, you seem to know a lot about this card, as you keep correcting me on things, yet you admit they're just rumours and I admit that too, lol. I was just sayin' that's all, don't take it too seriously. :p
 
Oh come on now. We all know that by the time anything hits the shelves out of Valveware short of a customer-made mod, we'll all be using virtual reality headsets, flying to work - not driving, and not using keyboards anymore, but rather our brainwave-to-interface devices :)
 
There's a bunch of little differences but here are the big ones.

VS 3.0 and PS 3.0 add logic statements (loops, if's, etc). Right now you have to write a rather linear program which brute forces all the work you need to do, which can be quite wasteful. For example you write a Vertex shader that handles calculating 6 lights for your model. If you only need to use 2 lights, you still run the math for the unused 4, wasting some GPU time. This is true unless you go to the trouble of writing 5 more vertex shaders each doing a different number of lights) This balloons with complexity because there are several operations in this style which you want to do conditionally, and writing vertex shaders for all the premutations is either impossible or just too much work. The GPU's ability to run a vertex shader isn't usually a bottleneck so its easy to just make the shaders try and do everything and still fit within the limitations.

The 3.0 shaders can also be significantly longer programs. For example a 1.1 pixel shader is limited to 8 instructions (which actually isn't too bad most of the time since they can be rather complex operations). PS 2.0 expands this to 64, and PS 3.0 says 512 is the minimum. This 512 limit can also be exceeded, but its up to the hardware to allow more. This bump to 512 instructions is also amplified because there will be looping, and less redundant code will need to be written.

Vertex Shader 3.0 adds the beginning of hardware accelerated displacement mapping, where you can use a texture to modify the vertex data. Previously texture data could only be accessed after the vertex shader had been run. The future (Beyond DX9) sees having the vertex and pixel shader systems merged together completely which will be pretty cool. We should see some pretty ridiculously detailed models then, due to being able to combine displacement maping with hardware tesselation.
 
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