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AT test Woodcrest

it would... but goddamn, those FBDIMMs really add to the power consumption!

K8L would get AMD back into contention, but I'm sure we're at least a year away from seeing it...
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
it would... but goddamn, those FBDIMMs really add to the power consumption!

K8L would get AMD back into contention, but I'm sure we're at least a year away from seeing it...
Click to expand...

I don’t understand how you can just come to the conclusion that K8L will bring AMD back in the game when we haven’t seen any benchmarks yet. Looking at a few PowerPoint’s of the new architecture doesn’t tell us yet...
 
woodcrest looks awesome. I for one, will be getting a Woodcrest instead of a Conroe...

I mean.. how is a Conroe 2.93 GHz / 1066 / 4MB - 999$
and the
Woodcrest 3Ghz / 1333 / 4MB - 849$

I want the 3Ghz 1333 Woodcrest <3 or 2!
 
I wonder why then Dell is using Opterons when Woodcrest is right around the corner. The whole story can't be there...

Is it because the Xeon is still too costly and lame for 4-way and 8-way compared to Opteron?
 
robberbaron said:
I wonder why then Dell is using Opterons when Woodcrest is right around the corner. The whole story can't be there...

Is it because the Xeon is still too costly and lame for 4-way and 8-way compared to Opteron?
Click to expand...


There isn't a MP (4 processor) system that'll run woodcrest and besides that, the FSB is REALLY limiting on MP. On the DP server side they went to dual independent FSBs to work around the bandwidth limitations and combine that with FBDIMMs and you have a system that performs REALLY well. There just isn't a MP solution that is competitive at the moment.
 
Poncho said:
There isn't a MP (4 processor) system that'll run woodcrest and besides that, the FSB is REALLY limiting on MP. On the DP server side they went to dual independent FSBs to work around the bandwidth limitations and combine that with FBDIMMs and you have a system that performs REALLY well. There just isn't a MP solution that is competitive at the moment.
Click to expand...

Ah, gotcha. So what I was thinking was right, pretty much.

Do we have to wait for CSI in order to see Intel compete with AMD on the server side?
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
woodcrest looks awesome. I for one, will be getting a Woodcrest instead of a Conroe...

I mean.. how is a Conroe 2.93 GHz / 1066 / 4MB - 999$
and the
Woodcrest 3Ghz / 1333 / 4MB - 849$

I want the 3Ghz 1333 Woodcrest <3 or 2!
Click to expand...

Hm... only problem you may face is the FBDs, they are somewhat pricey and the motherboards sure ain't cheap.
 
Looks like woodcrest 2x will be = to opty 4x system at 1/2 the cost and power consumption. AMD is safe in the 8x server arena only. MAYBE! Woodcrest will own the workstation market.

By the time K8l arrives in 2008. Intel will have the 45nm process and Nehalem will devourer K8l . I guess if you sue intel they will turn on you and show the world that in reality your really not a player. Yes AMD had A64 but thats old tech and AMD's moment in the sun has come and gone . Nehalem will put the final nail in that couffin in 2008.
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
woodcrest looks awesome. I for one, will be getting a Woodcrest instead of a Conroe...

I mean.. how is a Conroe 2.93 GHz / 1066 / 4MB - 999$
and the
Woodcrest 3Ghz / 1333 / 4MB - 849$

I want the 3Ghz 1333 Woodcrest <3 or 2!
Click to expand...

I am thinking like you. A workstation board will cost muck more but if asus brings out a good O/C 2x socket board . 6gbits of FB dimms @ 667 running @ 1:1 with a 2x1333 fsb does look appealing to me.

On the other hand the 4 core desktop might be interesting also but without the dual buses I doubt it will perform like Woodcrest .2x socket
 
cupholder2.0 said:
I don’t understand how you can just come to the conclusion that K8L will bring AMD back in the game when we haven’t seen any benchmarks yet. Looking at a few PowerPoint’s of the new architecture doesn’t tell us yet...
Click to expand...

Well, when you consider that they will clock higher, and have much higher IPC... only the worst of the worst intel f@nboys wouldn't believe that they will be back in contention, like I stated....

Then again, I didn't say in contention with what... so let me clarify... into contention with these initial Woodcrest's... not what Intel will have on the market by the time K8L ships (a year from now)....

So yea, K8L will be awesome.... now if only AMD could release it a year early.....
 
robberbaron said:
Do we have to wait for CSI in order to see Intel compete with AMD on the server side?
Click to expand...

Ok... just so you know there are 3 different types of servers (more, but this is the basics). There is UP (single processor), DP (dual processor) and MP (4+ Processor). What Dell went to AMD for was the MP line, NOT DP or UP. Now... that being said we are already competing with AMD on the UP and DP.... just not the MP for reasons stated above. The Bensley plaform (5000 series Intel DP Chip set) works well and gives AMD a run for it's money. As far as MP goes.... no, we won't have to wait for CSI to be competitive with AMD in MP, there are a few things in the works there. Can't talk about them though, sorry.


On a side note... Dell goin with AMD in MP is nothing more than media hype. It's NOT a big deal. MP is such a small market share and Dell is such a small percentage of that market anyway. Now... had IBM or HP done it, that would be a different story.
 
Poncho said:
MP is such a small market share and Dell is such a small percentage of that market anyway. Now... had IBM or HP done it, that would be a different story.
Click to expand...
But I think that's exactly why Dell went with AMD for MP CPUs. AMD has a 48% share of 4S x86 servers and Dell's offerings were becoming less and less competitive. Simply by (eventually) offering 4S Opteron servers, they hope to gain market share in that segment. It's pretty symbolic, but the hype is worth it to show gains in quarterly reports.

It was probably a big moment for Dell to finally give in when 1/2 of their potential 4S customers were asking for Opteron 4S servers. :p I still think offering Opterons is only temporary though.
 
pxc said:
But I think that's exactly why Dell went with AMD for MP CPUs. AMD has a 48% share of 4S x86 servers and Dell's offerings were becoming less and less competitive. Simply by (eventually) offering 4S Opteron servers, they hope to gain market share in that segment. It's pretty symbolic, but the hype is worth it to show gains in quarterly reports.

It was probably a big moment for Dell to finally give in when 1/2 of their potential 4S customers were asking for Opteron 4S servers. :p I still think offering Opterons is only temporary though.
Click to expand...

Agree with you 100%.....

Personally I wish dell would start selling AMD across the board. Fuck Dell is all I have to say. :D
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
it would... but goddamn, those FBDIMMs really add to the power consumption!

K8L would get AMD back into contention, but I'm sure we're at least a year away from seeing it...
Click to expand...

K8L is expected mid 2007. so yea, a year away.
 
Poncho said:
Personally I wish dell would start selling AMD across the board. Fuck Dell is all I have to say. :D
Click to expand...
Maybe Dell is hooked on discounts and advertising dollars. Dell can sell all the AMD systems they want with Alienware now anyways.

If Alienware starts shifting to Core 2...
 
$BangforThe$ said:
By the time K8l arrives in 2008. Intel will have the 45nm process and Nehalem will devourer K8l . I guess if you sue intel they will turn on you and show the world that in reality your really not a player. Yes AMD had A64 but thats old tech and AMD's moment in the sun has come and gone . Nehalem will put the final nail in that couffin in 2008.
Click to expand...

where is everyone getting this 2008 number i have read mid 2007 at the latest
 
pxc said:
Maybe Dell is hooked on discounts and advertising dollars.
Click to expand...

DING DING DING.... we have a winner, tell the man what he's won. :D

This is EXACTLY my problem, not to mention a few other things.
 
luke51087 said:
where is everyone getting this 2008 number i have read mid 2007 at the latest
Click to expand...
Not everyone. It's just him trying to start trouble. He was polluting the AMD board with that nonsense too.

I hope K8L comes out mid-2007, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's delayed. I am getting a bit worried because AMD didn't demonstrate any 65nm K8s at Computex. They displayed a wafer though. And those chips are supposed to start shipping in limited quantities in December.
 
dunno about you guys, but I love dell.... they got me my laptop for dirt cheap, and I'm sure when I'm ready to get my Merom successor based laptop, they'll give me the best price too...

the standard complaints? I've heard hem all, but I have nothing but great things to say about my 700m
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
dunno about you guys, but I love dell.... they got me my laptop for dirt cheap, and I'm sure when I'm ready to get my Merom successor based laptop, they'll give me the best price too...

the standard complaints? I've heard hem all, but I have nothing but great things to say about my 700m
Click to expand...


I'm not talking about their build quality or prices... I'm talking about them from a business perspective.
 
Poncho said:
I'm not talking about their build quality or prices... I'm talking about them from a business perspective.
Click to expand...
The market share that Intel gains world-wide from Dell seems like a necessary evil though. It's like a self sustaining critical mass. People and businesses are like monkey see, monkey do and just buy what everyone else is buying. It works even better for iPods. ;)

I don't hate Dell computers, I just haven't bought any in a while. It will be one of the first places I look for a Merom laptop though.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
Well, when you consider that they will clock higher, and have much higher IPC... only the worst of the worst intel f@nboys wouldn't believe that they will be back in contention, like I stated....
Click to expand...

Well I don't think AMD is out of contention. Woodcrest doesn't blow the AMD offerings out of the water. Very impressive performance, but there are still limitations.

And it's not just intel fanaticboys that don't believe K8L will outperform. It's just wait and see. Prescott was supposed to kick ass, but obviously didn't. And AMD defenders were saying, and are still saying, "wait until real benchies come out." "Wait until I can buy one, until then it doesn't matter." "Wait until I have one, until then it doesn't matter." You get the picture. I'm not saying you are saying, but to say one year ahead something is going to catch up, surpass etc. is pure speculation at this point and in this climate, so nobody should "believe" your statement earlier.
 
luke51087 said:
where is everyone getting this 2008 number i have read mid 2007 at the latest
Click to expand...

Noone really knows (probably not even AMD even!) its all speculation at this point.
 
deeznuts said:
Well I don't think AMD is out of contention. Woodcrest doesn't blow the AMD offerings out of the water. Very impressive performance, but there are still limitations.

And it's not just intel fanaticboys that don't believe K8L will outperform. It's just wait and see. Prescott was supposed to kick ass, but obviously didn't. And AMD defenders were saying, and are still saying, "wait until real benchies come out." "Wait until I can buy one, until then it doesn't matter." "Wait until I have one, until then it doesn't matter." You get the picture. I'm not saying you are saying, but to say one year ahead something is going to catch up, surpass etc. is pure speculation at this point and in this climate, so nobody should "believe" your statement earlier.
Click to expand...

wells, i did correct/clarify myself in a later post.... so now we just agree...

but i'll flame you anyway

damn intel f@nboy

:p
 
hehe. i'm an intel fan. yes. i've always liked their products. my last intel cpu was a northwood 2.6C. Since then I've built over 10 amd systems for myself and my friends, including one rare s939 sempron 3000+ from australia lol. just got rid of an excellent opty 165 system, in anticipation of conroe.

fan yes, f@nboy no. I am an f@nboy of me, buy whatever the hell i want at the time. I stand by me, my family, my friends, and my sports teams. everything else i could give a shit.
 
think you are an intel fan? Well.... I owned, and secretly loved a socket 478 PRESCOTT for a few months.... before I killed it :)

yea... who else so you know loved a PRESCOTT.... with shitty DDR266 RAM and a case with almost NO cooling

I'm that crazy
 
pxc said:
Not everyone. It's just him trying to start trouble. He was polluting the AMD board with that nonsense too.

I hope K8L comes out mid-2007, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's delayed. I am getting a bit worried because AMD didn't demonstrate any 65nm K8s at Computex. They displayed a wafer though. And those chips are supposed to start shipping in limited quantities in December.
Click to expand...


Me . LOL . The 4 core K8l is not expected until 1st qt. 2008. Thats the earliest its exspected. I doubt very much we will see dual core in retail until 2008.

By the way who was it saying intel wouldn't release Conroe till Sept .Oct. Nov . Dec

answer me that smarty pants???
 
Ya i read the article . All I seen was hype from AMD. Same as 4x4 M/B for gamers. ! year away.

Zram 2 years away +

Reverse hyper threading God only knows.

Dual core K8L mid 07 4core k8L early 08

All I have seen from AMD since the Conroe IDF show Is hype. Befor IDF AMD hadn't said anything at all .

Now that Intel dropped the bomb on the old hammer. AMD is we are coming with this and that BLA BLA BLA

Speaking of Hammer how late was that to the show.

You can believe AMD hype . For me though AMD has to prove they can deliver. Bottom line
 
Bangfor, FYI, K8L is native quadcore.

As far as hammer being late, it had the performance crown for the past 3 years. Conroe is what is late.

As far as the 4x4, you can build two-way 940 boards that have SLI and have the same performance. So that's moot. Hell you can get a 4 way with SLI, I'm sure.
 
robberbaron said:
Bangfor, FYI, K8L is native quadcore.

As far as hammer being late, it had the performance crown for the past 3 years. Conroe is what is late.

As far as the 4x4, you can build two-way 940 boards that have SLI and have the same performance. So that's moot. Hell you can get a 4 way with SLI, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

Hammer was late. Despite that, it was a kick ass architecture when introduced. Conroe AFAIK is not late. What facts do you base these statements on?
 
robberbaron said:
Bangfor, FYI, K8L is native quadcore.

As far as hammer being late, it had the performance crown for the past 3 years. Conroe is what is late.

As far as the 4x4, you can build two-way 940 boards that have SLI and have the same performance. So that's moot. Hell you can get a 4 way with SLI, I'm sure.
Click to expand...
No, not the initial revision, K8L will not have a Quad Core format till Late 2007 Early 2008 at the earliest. While the Dual Core K8L is slated for a Mid 2007 release.

Not quite with the Socket AM2 implementation it will not be limited to ECC Registered DDR memory, you can use Generic DDR2 memory.

Once again debatable, single core Athlon 64's aren't not quite as good for multitasking as the HyperThreaded Pentium 4's were. It wasn't until we went to Dual Core Athlon 64x2 did AMD take an advantage across the board. So performance crown for 1 year or so.
 
Poncho said:
Agree with you 100%.....

Personally I wish dell would start selling AMD across the board. Fuck Dell is all I have to say. :D
Click to expand...

Really? Surprised to hear the coming from an Intel employee. I figured Intel valued Dell's business, even if they do push for big discounts. I mean, if Intel weren't making money off of Dell, I have to assume they would tell them to violate themselves in a very uncomfortable place.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Looks like woodcrest 2x will be = to opty 4x system at 1/2 the cost and power consumption. AMD is safe in the 8x server arena only. MAYBE! Woodcrest will own the workstation market.

By the time K8l arrives in 2008. Intel will have the 45nm process and Nehalem will devourer K8l . I guess if you sue intel they will turn on you and show the world that in reality your really not a player. Yes AMD had A64 but thats old tech and AMD's moment in the sun has come and gone . Nehalem will put the final nail in that couffin in 2008.
Click to expand...

Where did you buy your crystal ball? I'd love to have one too :)
 
Robstar said:
Where did you buy your crystal ball? I'd love to have one too :)
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by $BangforThe$
Looks like woodcrest 2x will be = to opty 4x system at 1/2 the cost and power consumption. AMD is safe in the 8x server arena only. MAYBE! Woodcrest will own the workstation market This is were I got the first part from

http://anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=2772

By the time K8l arrives in 2008. Intel will have the 45nm process and Nehalem will devourer K8l . I guess if you sue intel they will turn on you and show the world that in reality your really not a player. Yes AMD had A64 but thats old tech and AMD's moment in the sun has come and gone . Nehalem will put the final nail in that couffin in 2008.

This part was easy . Based on the delinery of AMDs last architecural advanment (Hammer). I have no reason to believe that AMD can deliver the goods on time and in quanity. Amds 65nm process late also.

Based on intels last architecural advancement 65nm tech on time and in wonderful shape. Merom ahead roadmaps and one ass kicking cpu.

No magic involved just a study of the last advances by both companies. Hell based on Intels performance I have know reason to believe they won't believer on time or even ahead of time.

Based on Amds past performance. I have no reason to believe they will deliver on time. Why should I ? I see K8L dual core as being delivered to retail no eariler than 2008.
 
On the server side, there is UP and DP. Woodcrest will compete in that space and looks to be faster than Opteron. MP, 4 socket and above, is where links based interconnect has a big advantage. That is where Dell announced they would offer an Opteron system. It is not exclusive though, Dell will offer a system based on Opteron alongside the Intel MP offering. Intel just announced that they will be shipping Tulsa in Q3, pulled in from Q4. Tulsa is expected to give the performance lead back to Intel in MP until K8L.

On the K8L, it would seem to be at least a year away. The reason is for these server CPU's, it takes a year or more after having silicon for debug before the product can ship. However, demo can happen just about as soon as silicon arrives. AMD did not demo K8L during their analyst day which likely means they don't have silicon yet.
 
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