Async Compute!

[tybert7]

People seem to forget the fact that IO even stated Async was very difficult to tweak and can have the opposite effect it was intended to have.



Unreal even cautions devs on using Async:



As of now Async is not the holy grail PC gamers have been looking for in terms of noticeable performance boosts with little to no cost.

Did anyone ever clarify whether the talk of caution using async was global, or more of a concern with specific architectures (read maxwell)? Was it just as dangerous to use on amd gpus as a global danger or more based on the particular limitations of maxwell, that a lot of people bought blind like the 960?

 

[Brent_Justice]

Frankly, I think AMD needs more market penetration to get more to jump on the Async bandwagon. However, it is a good sign when game developers are trying to win over their own to the cause.

Also, while unsubstantiated, there are rumors that the new Deus Ex will have a very strong DX12 implementation, and could be a "best case" scenario for showing off what it can do.

From my understanding, Async Compute Shaders are not required part of the DX12 spec. It is an optional feature. In that case, we need to understand that "DX12" is not synonymous with "Async Shaders" you can have a full, well developed DX12 platform, not using Async.

I think Async should be used when its appropriate, but if it is only going to add issues or no impact, then it shouldn't. I am for the best way to achieve performance on a given GPU, whatever that method is.

 

[Brent_Justice]

People seem to forget the fact that IO even stated Async was very difficult to tweak and can have the opposite effect it was intended to have.



Unreal even cautions devs on using Async:



As of now Async is not the holy grail PC gamers have been looking for in terms of noticeable performance boosts with little to no cost.

That's all that my point is. People still think i'm dissing Async, but I'm cautious, not dissing.

I can't get wrapped up in fanboyism over a feature like this, I have to stay objective. The burden is on the other foot to prove to me the benefits of it.

I am all for whatever methods achieve the best performance on any given GPU, whatever that method is. If Async is the way for a particular GPU, great, but if it isn't, then it shouldn't be used. I say, use Async, WHEN APPROPRIATE. If not appropriate, then that is OK. You can still have a well developed DX12 game without Async.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

From my understanding, Async Compute Shaders are not required part of the DX12 spec. It is an optional feature. In that case, we need to understand that "DX12" is not synonymous with "Async Shaders" you can have a full, well developed DX12 platform, not using Async.

I think Async should be used when its appropriate, but if it is only going to add issues or no impact, then it shouldn't. I am for the best way to achieve performance on a given GPU, whatever that method is.

Solid point. That said, I believe that the company making Deus Ex also has good ties to AMD, so it may be possible they will be implementing Async.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

That's all that my point is. People still think i'm dissing Async, but I'm cautious, not dissing.

I can't get wrapped up in fanboyism over a feature like this, I have to stay objective. The burden is on the other foot to prove to me the benefits of it.

I am all for whatever methods achieve the best performance on any given GPU, whatever that method is. If Async is the way for a particular GPU, great, but if it isn't, then it shouldn't be used. I say, use Async, WHEN APPROPRIATE. If not appropriate, then that is OK. You can still have a well developed DX12 game without Async.

I don't see it as dissing at all. As you said - its a feature. I think we won't see it used much until NVidia adopts it into their hardware. Developers aren't usually keen on spending time coding something a smaller % of people playing their game will use.

 

[Brent_Justice]

Solid point. That said, I believe that the company making Deus Ex also has good ties to AMD, so it may be possible they will be implementing Async.

That's awesome, whatever they can do to maximize performnance on GPUs, I am all for. If it really does help, then that only benefits us gamers. All I ask for is equal testing among AMD and NVIDIA to extract the best performance possible using the features supported.

 

[Chimpee]

im quite good at economics, i thought amd would be gone years ago.

But for now, knowing what is there, maybe nvida still have a perf per what advantage.

Well the reason AMD is still here is because they continue to cannabilize thru layoffs or selling their assembly and testing division. If it wasn't for the JV deal, they would have been pretty below revenue estimation from the street in Q1 of 2016.

 

[Meeho]

See what I mean imhotep? I get a lot of flak all the time, people calling me an nvidia shill, a troll, etc etc...

Yet I'm the one sourcing my information, I'm the one explaining async in simple terms, I'm the one posting screenshots of reddit threads. I'm the one quoting Robert Hallock when JustReason decides to post outdated comments instead of just accepting that he was misinformed.

Basically I get a ton of shit, yet in the end I'm usually right. Not because I'm some kind of genius, but because I think before I type. You guys should try that sometime

You get a ton of shit because you and razor crapped every damn thread that had async mentioned in it. You are like a plague that attaches itself to every async mention and you suck the life out of every thread you go on a tirade. So many derailments it has become obnoxious. Yes, you guys are mostly right about you facts, but the problem is you more often than not end up arguing semantics and/or framing the points in a retarded manner, and most definitely stirring the same shitty debate over and over and over and over...

Could you, for the love of god, give it a rest for at least a while and not act on the urge to jump to all and any mention of async no matter the thread it's mentioned in?

Technical facts aside, majority doesn't care what async compute actually is, why certain cards and architectures benefit from it more or less, why this card has X Tflops and the other Y and things go this or that way regarding async importance when you equal them, etc. AMD cards have X Tflops and Nvidia has less and it faster, and they you OC it and equal the Tflops and utilization and bla bla fucking bla for the thousandth time. Yes, AMD cards do have more potential raw power, yes Nvidia's have less but use what they have more efficiently. People bought their AMD cards instead of the competition and there is a potential for them to have their price/performance metric increase with async if it end up being implemented in some title and gets implemented properly. They don't need you to explain the true facts behind it or how it means one cards does this and the other that, the one benefits from it because it is effectively underutilized now and the other is better in that regard. At the end of the day it is meaningless and doesn't disprove any potential benefits for a portion of the market. Get of your being right high horse and stop crapping on every and each thread stating ultimately meaningless corrections and explanations.

 

[razor1]

Sorri for 2 post razor. if what amd has done is rigt, we hve to look it from 2 sides, we have to se facts, facts us amd have 20% nviga have 80% of the marked. Risk must be calulated.

Ods is that nvida will make the fastest chip, they already have the advaatange at high end.

As you a chief know that Nvida go for high end, with lots of more resurrces than your firm have, maybe vega small would have match 1080, but thats not for sure, so as an econmist i wouldd see where to sell most, with profit, with only 20 % market share the best way is to go oposit, as u said nvida will answer with 1060, but dell and all manufactuers have known for a long time tha amd comes out with last months behinde.

Seeing those 2 options i think that amd did right, but unless vega dosnt hold its own, then they are lost

The problem is you don't want to sell yourself short on the performance market it is by all measures the same size as mainstream and value segments combined, added to this you get the added benefits of higher margins, better bottom line.

I would strive for the performance segment if it can't be attained well fall back to reposition those chips to the midrange.

 

[razor1]

You get a ton of shit because you and razor crapped every damn thread that had async mentioned in it. You are like a plague that attaches itself to every async mention and you suck the life out of every thread you go on a tirade. So many derailments it has become obnoxious. Yes, you guys are mostly right about you facts, but the problem is you more often than not end up arguing semantics and/or framing the points in a retarded manner, and most definitely stirring the same shitty debate over and over and over and over...

Could you, for the love of god, give it a rest for at least a while and not act on the urge to jump to all and any mention of async no matter the thread it's mentioned in?

Technical facts aside, majority doesn't care what async compute actually is, why certain cards and architectures benefit from it more or less, why this card has X Tflops and the other Y and things go this or that way regarding async importance when you equal them, etc. AMD cards have X Tflops and Nvidia has less and it faster, and they you OC it and equal the Tflops and utilization and bla bla fucking bla for the thousandth time. Yes, AMD cards do have more potential raw power, yes Nvidia's have less but use what they have more efficiently. People bought their AMD cards instead of the competition and there is a potential for them to have their price/performance metric increase with async if it end up being implemented in some title and gets implemented properly. They don't need you to explain the true facts behind it or how it means one cards does this and the other that, the one benefits from it because it is effectively underutilized now and the other is better in that regard. At the end of the day it is meaningless and doesn't disprove any potential benefits for a portion of the market. Get of your being right high horse and stop crapping on every and each thread stating ultimately meaningless corrections and explanations.

Meeho, if I crapped async threads, look back who gave information that was right and who gave crap? This is the problem, you right now gave nothing valuable to this thread, I see nothing in your current post that says other than I just got butt hurt so much that all I can do is complain about another poster, instead of countering the information given you are debasing the poster. Go for it lets see how far it goes.

 

[razor1]

Bye the way Razort u do impress me with your knowlages, mine is just in economies, and well i do think i beat you in Dune

You will probably beat me in Dune. Jury is still out on your experience but so far so good

 

[razor1]

Yes, but sadly it is so, economics decide if a company lives or die, i know the history since i bought my first computer in 1988, well i bouht 2, an pc and an amiga.
Amiga was way superior to what pc was, but still amiga died, pc became what we use, money talk, its as easy at that.

Well back in the past, it was harder, less to choose from and buyers were much less informed on what hardware was better. Yeah we still have a quite a few neophytes when it comes to hardware but not as much as back in the early days.

 

[Ieldra]

You get a ton of shit because you and razor crapped every damn thread that had async mentioned in it. You are like a plague that attaches itself to every async mention and you suck the life out of every thread you go on a tirade. So many derailments it has become obnoxious. Yes, you guys are mostly right about you facts, but the problem is you more often than not end up arguing semantics and/or framing the points in a retarded manner, and most definitely stirring the same shitty debate over and over and over and over...

Could you, for the love of god, give it a rest for at least a while and not act on the urge to jump to all and any mention of async no matter the thread it's mentioned in?

Technical facts aside, majority doesn't care what async compute actually is, why certain cards and architectures benefit from it more or less, why this card has X Tflops and the other Y and things go this or that way regarding async importance when you equal them, etc. AMD cards have X Tflops and Nvidia has less and it faster, and they you OC it and equal the Tflops and utilization and bla bla fucking bla for the thousandth time. Yes, AMD cards do have more potential raw power, yes Nvidia's have less but use what they have more efficiently. People bought their AMD cards instead of the competition and there is a potential for them to have their price/performance metric increase with async if it end up being implemented in some title and gets implemented properly. They don't need you to explain the true facts behind it or how it means one cards does this and the other that, the one benefits from it because it is effectively underutilized now and the other is better in that regard. At the end of the day it is meaningless and doesn't disprove any potential benefits for a portion of the market. Get of your being right high horse and stop crapping on every and each thread stating ultimately meaningless corrections and explanations.

I couldn't care less who buys what, the thread is about async, I'm talking about async, if people don't care about async I have trouble understanding why they'd post in the thread, or even read the posts in it.

What you consider semantics is necessary for serious discussion, in the absence of it we don't know what you are talking about.

Someone said async drawcalls, I don't know what that means, so I asked. Case in point. Semantics.

What you see as threadcrapping, I see as fixing a crap thread

 

[Zion Halcyon]

That's awesome, whatever they can do to maximize performnance on GPUs, I am all for. If it really does help, then that only benefits us gamers. All I ask for is equal testing among AMD and NVIDIA to extract the best performance possible using the features supported.

That's usually pretty tough as developers tend to go path of least resistance.

When AMD basically ceded the market share to NVidia a couple years back, developers coded for Gameworks, because that is what people were using.

And I agree that I wish more time was spent with video card architecture by game makers to push performance to the limits.

I do think a lot of that has gone by the wayside through, because of larger publishers wanting to crank out product quicker, and thus spending time with a card to fully utilize it is a luxury they don't have.

Which is why we need as many features as possible baked into the biggest engines themselves - Unity, CryEngine, Unreal Engine, etc. THAT is the one-shot kill for DX 12 AND Async - if you can get built in support for the most popular engines, then games built on those engines will have a far easier time implementing it.

Back to Deus Ex - rumors are they are working hand in hand with AMD and could be bundled with their cards when released. If this is anything remotely true, this is a coup for AMD, as having a "Built for RADEON" AAA title would be a huge shot fired if successful, and potentially bring the glory years of card wars back.

AMD needs some allies in the gaming development community though to make it happen. We'll see..

 

[razor1]

We have seen this happen many times, from both sides, nothing changes.

Remember HL2, a water shader that hurt nV's performance, then we can look at from the other side, with what nV has done with gameworks titles with tessellation.

You will always have some games that work better on AMD hardware some games that work better on nV hardware.

But now we have a point where drivers from one side or the other can't fix the performance (if there are issues) since the driver doesn't have access to such low level's of the API at least not in a direct way.

 

[Imhotep]

That's awesome, whatever they can do to maximize performnance on GPUs, I am all for. If it really does help, then that only benefits us gamers. All I ask for is equal testing among AMD and NVIDIA to extract the best performance possible using the features supported.

/tangent

speaking of fanboys, I just want to see all the nvidia fans recommending 960s over equivalent amd parts (and yes, even 970s after we learned about maxwell limitations in dx12, though that is still tolerable) publicly apologize for leading the nvidia flock astray.


Total War WARHAMMER DX12: PC graphics performance benchmark review


The 960, one of the most popular nvidia cards, total trash longevity. We tried to tell them, but the nvidia brigade kept saying nothing to see here. Let them suffer.

This is great news. So slightly overclocked Fury X performs just like a 1080. Who would have thought.

 

[razor1]

err no it doesn't, at the lower res there is some CPU bottlenecking going on for the higher end cards, check the higher resolutions.

18% difference, you can't overclock the fury X by 18 %

Granted its closer than other games but still.

 

[Meeho]

I couldn't care less who buys what, the thread is about async, I'm talking about async, if people don't care about async I have trouble understanding why they'd post in the thread, or even read the posts in it.

What you consider semantics is necessary for serious discussion, in the absence of it we don't know what you are talking about.

Someone said async drawcalls, I don't know what that means, so I asked. Case in point. Semantics.

What you see as threadcrapping, I see as fixing a crap thread

Meeho, if I crapped async threads, look back who gave information that was right and who gave crap? This is the problem, you right now gave nothing valuable to this thread, I see nothing in your current post that says other than I just got butt hurt so much that all I can do is complain about another poster, instead of countering the information given you are debasing the poster. Go for it lets see how far it goes.

No, you crapped every thread where it was mentioned, no matter the actual topic. I don't have a need to add anything, I have a need to see what others have to add but I can't because you two keep circlejerking each other in every thread for the last couple of weeks and killing any chance of others providing related information and discussion branching in other directions than the same statements from you. Just because you correct someones point in a thread and keep bashing it in everyone's head till the thread dies doesn't mean you've added anything of worth. On the contrary, you killed the chance by derailing the discussion to the same arguments over and over.

There are much more interesting things and implications to be said on async and related topics than what you provide. I would like for them to be able to be explored at least once without the same derailment.

 

[razor1]

Good you are now in a async thread, thread crapping right?

Get out of here or talk about the topic!

If someone brings up async in another thread, I can counter their post AND I WILL if they are talking out of their ASS. Don't tell me what I can and cannot do once the door was opened by someone else! I for one never started an async conversation in any thread! Never even started a async thread! If ignorance is the new thing in town you are it man. Cause you make accusations that you can't back up or even link to.

Go back and check

 

[Zion Halcyon]

You get a ton of shit because you and razor crapped every damn thread that had async mentioned in it. You are like a plague that attaches itself to every async mention and you suck the life out of every thread you go on a tirade. So many derailments it has become obnoxious. Yes, you guys are mostly right about you facts, but the problem is you more often than not end up arguing semantics and/or framing the points in a retarded manner, and most definitely stirring the same shitty debate over and over and over and over...

Could you, for the love of god, give it a rest for at least a while and not act on the urge to jump to all and any mention of async no matter the thread it's mentioned in?

Technical facts aside, majority doesn't care what async compute actually is, why certain cards and architectures benefit from it more or less, why this card has X Tflops and the other Y and things go this or that way regarding async importance when you equal them, etc. AMD cards have X Tflops and Nvidia has less and it faster, and they you OC it and equal the Tflops and utilization and bla bla fucking bla for the thousandth time. Yes, AMD cards do have more potential raw power, yes Nvidia's have less but use what they have more efficiently. People bought their AMD cards instead of the competition and there is a potential for them to have their price/performance metric increase with async if it end up being implemented in some title and gets implemented properly. They don't need you to explain the true facts behind it or how it means one cards does this and the other that, the one benefits from it because it is effectively underutilized now and the other is better in that regard. At the end of the day it is meaningless and doesn't disprove any potential benefits for a portion of the market. Get of your being right high horse and stop crapping on every and each thread stating ultimately meaningless corrections and explanations.

Preach it Meeho, preach it!

 

[Ieldra]

No, you crapped every thread where it was mentioned, no matter the actual topic. I don't have a need to add anything, I have a need to see what others have to add but I can't because you two keep circlejerking each other in every thread for the last couple of weeks and killing any chance of others providing related information and discussion branching in other directions than the same statements from you. Just because you correct someones point in a thread and keep bashing it in everyone's head till the thread dies doesn't mean you've added anything of worth. On the contrary, you killed the chance by derailing the discussion to the same arguments over and over.

You're making it sounds like we're censoring people man. If someone comes and posts something that makes sense, and there's evidence for it, even if it disagrees with everything I said, if it seems right to me I'll say so...

You claim I'm ruining the thread yet there are people who appreciated my analogy, and people who got a better understanding of the thing from my threadcrapping. You want to argue I'm an aggressive asshole, I'm with you, and so are the mods on the forum. I'm told I'm not civil. Lovely. Perhaps you should take a moment to think about how civil someone can be when they're made to argue, for a whole page of a thread about what is written in a reddit post.

I don't know if you guys are all Buddhist or something, maybe you meditate, but I lose my patience very quickly.

You complain that I argue semantics? What about the people literally denying what is written on reddit despite several citations and even screenshots and derailing the thread by making it about reddit comments. Ffs. Such hypocrisy

I never said I was a saint

And its just because of circumstance that I am 'anti-amd' in this case. When I argue against the buffoons saying 1080 @ 2500mhz is the norm, or saying the 1080 is voltage 'gimped' I criticize them too! And I'm told I'm biased because I have a 980ti.
Lol. Between a rock and a hard place, eh?

 

[Chimpee]

Yes, but sadly it is so, economics decide if a company lives or die, i know the history since i bought my first computer in 1988, well i bouht 2, an pc and an amiga.
Amiga was way superior to what pc was, but still amiga died, pc became what we use, money talk, its as easy at that.

Indeed, with a possible recession in the next two years, it will become harder for any company in a bad financial situation to weather thru a recession. Hopefully AMD can build a significant cash reserves to weather thru both its debt obligation and a possible recession.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

Good you are now in a async thread, thread crapping right?

Get out of here or talk about the topic!

If someone brings up async in another thread, I can counter their post AND I WILL if they are talking out of their ASS. Don't tell me what I can and cannot do once the door was opened by someone else! I for one never started an async conversation in any thread! Never even started a async thread! If ignorance is the new thing in town you are it man. Cause you make accusations that you can't back up or even link to.

Go back and check

The issue isn't whether he can back up his accusations or not (he can), the issue is even if he did, would you admit it (you wouldn't). So the smart person, rather than wasting their life trying to please an unpleasable person, instead lives their life, and doesn't let what said horse's arse thinks of him bother him in the least.

 

[razor1]

Indeed, with a possible recession in the next two years, it will become harder for any company in a bad financial situation to weather thru a recession. Hopefully AMD can build a significant cash reserves to weather thru both its debt obligation and a possible recession.

its not just the recession either, along with that new process nodes are more expensive to use and create chips on. With the addition of a possible recession, the debt that has to be repaid, the increases need in R&D added to the cost of the wafers....

Its hard road.

 

[Meeho]

If someone brings up async in another thread, I can counter their post AND I WILL if they are talking out of their ASS. Don't tell me what I can and cannot do once the door was opened by someone else! I for one never started an async conversation in any thread! Never even started a async thread!

No, you just attach yourself like a leach to each and every thread it is mentioned in and more often than not derail it because of your need to prove someone wrong on a fact that adds nothing to the bigger discussion at hand.

If ignorance is the new thing in town you are it man. Cause you make accusations that you can't back up or even link to.

Ignorance is the very thing I would like to avoid by learning about other aspects of the topic. Repeated reading of the same few points a hundred times adds nothing to one's knowledge, it limits it from reaching beyond them. Your posting history is proof.

 

[razor1]

The issue isn't whether he can back up his accusations or not (he can), the issue is even if he did, would you admit it (you wouldn't). So the smart person, rather than wasting their life trying to please an unpleasable person, instead lives their life, and doesn't let what said horse's arse thinks of him bother him in the least.

I would admit it, but the thing is I know I never started an async discussion, cause its always been me countering someone else saying things on behalf of AMD marketing. At least 5 or 6 times someone came out and said I can't believe Razor has the patience to go through it again.......

 

[Ieldra]

No, you just attach yourself like a leach to each and every thread it is mentioned in and more often than not derail it because of your need to prove someone wrong on a fact that adds nothing to the bigger discussion at hand.



Ignorance is the very thing I would like to avoid by learning about other aspects of the topic. Repeated reading of the same few points a hundred times adds nothing to one's knowledge, it limits it from reaching beyond them. Your posting history is proof.

Combat ignorance by damning the truth and calling it threadcrapping.

10/10

 

[razor1]

No, you just attach yourself like a leach to each and every thread it is mentioned in and more often than not derail it because of your need to prove someone wrong on a fact that adds nothing to the bigger discussion at hand.



Ignorance is the very thing I would like to avoid by learning about other aspects of the topic. Repeated reading of the same few points a hundred times adds nothing to one's knowledge, it limits it from reaching beyond them. Your posting history is proof.

I'm just going to report your off topic posts from now on, good bye

 

[Imhotep]

err no it doesn't, at the lower res there is some CPU bottlenecking going on for the higher end cards, check the higher resolutions.

18% difference, you can't overclock the fury X by 18 %

Granted its closer than other games but still.

What are you talking about. If you really wanted to expose CPU battlenecking you would have gone for the highest res possible...lol

 

[razor1]

What are you talking about. If you really wanted to expose CPU battlenecking you would have gone for the highest res possible...lol

yeah and you stated a slight overclock from a fury x can match a 1080, not going to happen unless the 1080 is CPU bound. which it definitely is at a lower res.

 

[Meeho]

And its just because of circumstance that I am 'anti-amd' in this case. When I argue against the buffoons saying 1080 @ 2500mhz is the norm, or saying the 1080 is voltage 'gimped' I criticize them too! And I'm told I'm biased because I have a 980ti.

I have no horse in this race and like to think I'm wise enough not to be a fanboy of a corporation. I'm not accusing you of being an Nvidia fanboy, I'm accusing you of too often doing a disservice to threads with async mentions.

 

[Crosshairs]

Listen, if you guys cant have an honest debate without name calling and personal attacks, Ill start closing threads and banning people...the choice is yours to make.

 

[Ieldra]

I have no horse in this race and like to think I'm wise enough not to be a fanboy of a corporation. I'm not accusing you of being an Nvidia fanboy, I'm accusing you of too often doing a disservice to threads with async mentions.

As far as your posts go while I disagree I appreciate you put more effort than 'you're a fanboy' so thanks for that!

 

[Ieldra]

Still fun reading, But Razort u lost 2 times today, you cant beat me i Dune (i think), and well Ledra beats u hands down as an nvidia fan boy, i know yu try, but you cant beat him :=)

I'm waiting for my medal!

 

[razor1]

I have no horse in this race and like to think I'm wise enough not to be a fanboy of a corporation. I'm not accusing you of being an Nvidia fanboy, I'm accusing you of too often doing a disservice to threads with async mentions.

Ok look, lets get off this train of thought for a second, the reason why I have stated so many times async is what it is, is because there is a butt load of confusion around it.

Look at other forums Guru3d forums is chalk full of falsehoods. B3D there were people that were confused there, programmers! They understood it fairly quickly though.

Its not an easy topic to understand because to understand it you need to know how the chips work, because its a very low level concept. I don't blame people for not understanding it, I do blame people that are adamant to talk about something without understanding what they are talking about and expect others to believe what they are saying is true because they are programmers in a totally separate field out side of gaming.

 

[Meeho]

Ok look, lets get off this train of thought for a second, the reason why I have stated so many times async is what it is, is because there is a butt load of confusion around it.

Look at other forums Guru3d forums is chalk full of falsehoods. B3D there were people that were confused there, programmers! They understood it fairly quickly though.

Its not an easy topic to understand because to understand it you need to know how the chips work, because its a very low level concept. I don't blame people for not understanding it, I do blame people that are adamant to talk about something without understanding what they are talking about and expect others to believe what they are say is true because they are programmers in a totally separate field out side of gaming.

I agree with you and sometimes the corrections are indeed needed, but what I'm trying to say is you need to start weighing a bit more when there is another potential thought thread going on and other topic matters to explore. Correct explanations of certain technical aspects don't necessarily add to the topic just because they are not wrong. Going into this particular thread I was hoping there would be a larger discussion about industry participants' implementation and experience, what possible benefits are to be had in certain scenarios and what some gamers could gain from it, but it quickly flatlined on the same few points that every other thread ended up on and this time it was just one too many. Plus I was tired and agitated from IRL so couldn't ignore it as always.

 

[Ieldra]

Ok look, lets get off this train of thought for a second, the reason why I have stated so many times async is what it is, is because there is a butt load of confusion around it.

Look at other forums Guru3d forums is chalk full of falsehoods. B3D there were people that were confused there, programmers! They understood it fairly quickly though.

Its not an easy topic to understand because to understand it you need to know how the chips work, because its a very low level concept. I don't blame people for not understanding it, I do blame people that are adamant to talk about something without understanding what they are talking about and expect others to believe what they are saying is true because they are programmers in a totally separate field out side of gaming.

Before discussing async I didn't know anything about graphics apis, didn't know anything about dx12.

I'm no programmer, I use C and assembly more than anything for college work, and my focus is hardware not software.

The first time I heard 'gcn can do context switches in very few clocks so they can do compute + graphics in parallel' I had an aneurysm.

Context switch. Parallel. ERROR

The amount of incredibly stupid things being said about the topic is staggering.

Parallelism is a subset of concurrency.

 

[Chimpee]

Can't we just get along?

 

[razor1]

I agree with you and sometimes the corrections are indeed needed, but what I'm trying to say is you need to start weighing a bit more when there is another potential thought thread going on and other topic matters to explore. Correct explanations of certain technical aspects don't necessarily add to the topic just because they are not wrong. Going into this particular thread I was hoping there would be a larger discussion about industry participants' implementation and experience, what possible benefits are to be had in certain scenarios and what some gamers could gain from it, but it quickly flatlined on the same few points that every other thread ended up on and this time it was just one too many. Plus I was tired and agitated from IRL so couldn't ignore it as always.

Perfect hyperbole would be would anyone who believed nV when they stated pascal was 10 times faster (that slide about neuronets) over maxwell, that was for gaming. If someone came on this forum and stated that, I would say they are crazy. Even if neuronets weren't even mentioned in nV's presentations.

This is why when people started talking about 30% and above performance increases from Async, and why nV was having so much problems with AOTS with performance loss, it was unbelievable, to any programmer that has done shaders and looked at shader utilization figures for both cards. They should be very well versed at what would be good for each IHV if they want to get decent performance out of their software.

PS good programmers will look into shader utilization profiles to optimize their code. Not doing so, is not only bad but stupid not to, it gives you so much information quickly than measuring out frame rates.

I stated this at B3D about the oxide dev, I was surprised they didn't look into the AOTS shader profile lol.

 

[razor1]

Can't we just get along?

its getting better I think. We kinda understand where each are coming from now, that was missing from before.