astronomical GPU prices?

KickAssCop said:
BTC back to 8300 and climbing. I like it!
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The historical variance, trends, and market perceptions point to growth even if in the interim the volatility has btc down from 12/2018's highs.
 
plus there's all the automatic algorithmic trading that tanked the stock market a few days ago...
 
God, this makes me hope my 1.5 year old Asus Strix 1080 doesn't die... No way I could afford anything even remotely close these days.
 
Everyone could write to their utility company to raise prices on electricity.
 
NoxTek said:
God, this makes me hope my 1.5 year old Asus Strix 1080 doesn't die... No way I could afford anything even remotely close these days.
Click to expand...

My 1.5 year old EVGA 1070 SC died the other week, EVGA was good for the warranty, replaced the card, cross-shipped the replacement and the card will be warranted through the duration of the original card's warranty period.
 
lcpiper said:
Mind if I express some differences of ..... experience?

Over the last few decades, I have invested in Treasury Bills, CDs, mutual funds, individual stocks, my company's 401K, and real estate. I'm not rich, not like own yachts and mansions rich, but my wife and I are OK and I expect that by retirement in a few short years, we'll have an annual income of close to $72,000 without lifting a finger to make it. Our investments will make it for us.

So I suppose I need to thank those who distributed in my direction.

I think I qualify is working class, pretty bourgeois actually, I drink my beer from the bottle and my fish ain't raw when I eat it.

I use credit, borrow, every month .... which I pay the full balance of every month ...... and for my promptness I earn 2.5% cash back so I'm not just getting 0%, my bank is paying me to borrow their money.

I bought a condo just before the last "bubble burst". It didn't make us the money I had panned, but I didn't loose my ass either.

I have another $50K right now I want to put into something but I went tooling through some of my favorites the other day and truthfully, everyone is up right now and I was always told to buy low and sell high so I'm holding off at the moment. Of course the last time I didn't want to invest it was right after 9/11 and everything was low and falling and I was scared when I should have been buying my ass off. Live and learn I say. I'll know enough to recognize a golden opportunity next time.

Good days come and go, economies rise and fall. A large sea change isn't the end of everything, it's just a time for new winners and new losers and the race goes on.

One man's loss is another man's gain so maybe you have a good eye for some things, but I'm not sure your wallet is one of them :sneaky:

EDITED: Looks like large parts of the market are seeing some profit taking, things are looking better for sinking some money into something.
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Is this supposed to be serious? That whole post describes like just 5 percent of the US population.

Making $72,000 without doing anything - Check
Bought a condo last month - Check
I have another $50,000 sitting around - Check
Making it sound like he's just a poor bloke - Check

Other people in this country work 40+ hours a week and they don't make anywhere near $72,000.
 
Comixbooks said:
Everyone could write to their utility company to raise prices on electricity.
Click to expand...

There needs to be other approaches than punishing those who do not monetarily gain from using electricity.
1. Write your congressman and propose a bill that would place a STRONG progressive tax on cryptocurrency. IE, don't tax the shit out of the hobbyest who make under a grand a year. Make the top earners pay 80% tax on their gains and build an argument or your representative that it's not tax on the back of a working human, but a machine. Make your letter feel like it's the representative's idea and they will use it in a bill.
This is almost akin to Bill Gates' idea of taxing robots in the future. I hate using the word "progressive" but in this instance it's necessary.

2. Never but a used GPU for more than 1/4 of it's MSRP and make that a "meme" and mantra in all public forums (start a movement like the "Remember 2018 We Never PreOrder Games" but instead the meme would be "Remember never buy used GPUs. Let miners eat the loss."

3. Avoid sites that use cryptocurrency for payments. You are only promoting sites that put value on the cryptocurrency.

4. Criminalize cryptocurrency in the mind of the public. Remind people that the illegal drug community LOVES Monero and other untraceable cryptocurrency. Remind everyone of the theft of cryptocurrencies that routinely happen. You get the idea.

Those are a few ways to drain the value of crypto for the mega farmers. Those are the ones responsible for the high cost of PC gaming equipment.
 
griff30 said:
There needs to be other approaches than punishing those who do not monetarily gain from using electricity.
1. Write your congressman and propose a bill that would place a STRONG progressive tax on cryptocurrency. IE, don't tax the shit out of the hobbyest who make under a grand a year. Make the top earners pay 80% tax on their gains and build an argument or your representative that it's not tax on the back of a working human, but a machine. Make your letter feel like it's the representative's idea and they will use it in a bill.
This is almost akin to Bill Gates' idea of taxing robots in the future. I hate using the word "progressive" but in this instance it's necessary.

2. Never but a used GPU for more than 1/4 of it's MSRP and make that a "meme" and mantra in all public forums (start a movement like the "Remember 2018 We Never PreOrder Games" but instead the meme would be "Remember never buy used GPUs. Let miners eat the loss."

3. Avoid sites that use cryptocurrency for payments. You are only promoting sites that put value on the cryptocurrency.

4. Criminalize cryptocurrency in the mind of the public. Remind people that the illegal drug community LOVES Monero and other untraceable cryptocurrency. Remind everyone of the theft of cryptocurrencies that routinely happen. You get the idea.

Those are a few ways to drain the value of crypto for the mega farmers. Those are the ones responsible for the high cost of PC gaming equipment.
Click to expand...


This sounds like a rehash of every stupid idea recently put forth, with extra stupidity added in. The sheer idiocracy of it is staggering, I find it hard to understand how anyone could actually seriously write this as not a joke.

You want the government to get all over people's lives make huge amounts of rules and mess everything up because you can't get a firesale discount on a video card that you didn't want to buy at MSRP when you could have & even if there was a discount offered now, you'd probably still whine about wanting to wait for a new model. Oh and if good deals come up on used cards you want nobody to buy them just to spite people. Because somehow overclocking the hell out of your video card for "Gaming" in a hot enclosed case is some how this great noble usage? Oh and then when you want to sell your video card to upgrade to the latest one are you going to be busy trying to say... no not me... I had a noble usage of my card so you should ignore the fanatic mantra I espoused earlier and give me a good price for my used card? You'll be the one who now has to come up with 100% of the MSRP when you want to upgrade instead of only having to come up with 50% to 75% of it.


I'll tell you how the stupid idea of getting the government and taxes involved will go.... No more high end GPUs for anybody in the USA after the "power saving" requirements get passed, huge taxes on things you never expected that affect you... All the high end GPUs being sold to other countries and mining going strong there, all profits now going to Chinese and other asian countries. And you'll still whine and have nobody to blame but yourself as you are saddled with huge taxes on any hobby income and restrictions on what you can buy hardware wise.

Perhaps you might actually pull your head out of your rear end and realize that the mining craze is actually good long term for your precious "gaming" GPUs. As it has given AMD an unexpected boost financially that they can invest in producing more video cards and newer generations to keep the pressure up on Nvidia to make newer stuff available quicker. Otherwise you wind up with what happened in the CPU market once Intel ruled the world and you get basically more of the same stuff over and over with no actual significant improvement, just higher cost.

If you have actually been listening to Nvidia's public statements, they already consider gaming a mostly Legacy application for their future and are betting the company on Machine learning, Big Data manipulation, Autonomous vehicles, Data centers, Cloud computing, Cloud gaming & software sales / licencing. Yes they will continue to sell you video cards for gaming, but that's less and less of their focus going forward. A bit of easy profits selling tons of mining capable cards might just be enough to keep them producing cards that can also game very well and selling them to you at reasonable prices. (Remember also RAM prices have tripled or more in the past 2 years, so you're not going to get discounts on new cards with 12gb of GDDR6 memory).

If you actually want to get a video card for yourself for gaming and only want brand new because that makes you feel better, quit the stupid whining and just go look and get one at current MSRP (which is not going down due to component costs). You can pickup a card easily. I just got a MSRP EVGA 1070Ti yesterday from them, a 1080Ti earlier and have daily offers coming in for 1080 cards at a range of prices from current MSRP on up.

If you claim you "can't build a system" go to the EVGA web site, buy a case, a power supply and then a well priced 1080 or 1070 video card & start your build. Or come off your high horse and get a good deal on used cards when they come up.

Most of the whining and demands for the government to do something is simply coming from people who Didn't buy when they could because they were holding out for a fire sale, are unhappy that MSRP is going up due to component prices, still won't buy now when oppertunities come up at current MSRP, refuse to buy a used card for some ideological reason and are hoping that somehow they will magically be able to buy brand new video cards for fire sale prices if they could only mess up somebody else's stuff.
 
Gasaraki_ said:
Is this supposed to be serious? That whole post describes like just 5 percent of the US population.

Making $72,000 without doing anything - Check
Bought a condo last month - Check
I have another $50,000 sitting around - Check
Making it sound like he's just a poor bloke - Check

Other people in this country work 40+ hours a week and they don't make anywhere near $72,000.
Click to expand...

You are missing the point or points.

First point I would make .... That if you believe something is true, it is to you, even if it isn't really true. If you believe their are no jobs, you won't look for a job properly, you won't find a job, you probably won't get a job, you'll tell other people there are no jobs.

If you believe that you can't save and buy a home without a mortgage, you won't ever try.

If you believe that you have to live in debt, you'll keep paying other people interest, you'll always give away a large slice of your income, the slice that you need in order to get ahead.

Do you think I always made $72K a year ? (Actually my wife and I together make over $140K together if I include my Army retirement).

I'm 58 and make this money, I joined the Army in 1981 and was making like $400 a month maybe. It got better over time, my rank climbed, I made Sergeant and by 1993 we had maybe $10K saved , and my wife started making some actual money. My money let us live and hobble along but every time we got some money saved something came along and wiped it out, (should sound familiar to many).

So I retired from the Army in 1998, 5 years after my wife started working we had over $150K saved/invested. I'm 38 years old then and I am hired as a contractor earning $45K + my Army retirement, another $10K a year, and of course my wife's income. So now I am able to contribute to our savings growth and in 2000, I'm 40 years old, we buy our 1st home and we were able to write a check for it, no mortgage. The house was about $145K and I bought myself a new (used 1996 Mits 3000GT to reward myself), we still had a few thousand left over.

From that point on, the money grew, my pay grew too. I started earning in the $70K range about seven years ago.

So try not to look at what I am telling you and think I was born to it, that the Tooth Fairy left something special under my pillow. Where I am today is the product of almost 40 years of work and savings, some good decisions and some luck as well.

Now if I am handing anyone a map for a successful future not everyone here is in a position to follow it. A 40 year old divorced guy working at Best Buy with a house payment, car payment, and a kid pulling child support isn't going to get much use out of someone like me saying that he should have turned left 20 years ago.

But a 25 year old with most of his life ahead of him might hear just enough of what I am saying to challenge some of what he believes and start making choices that will pay off for him.

I can only help who i can help.
 
griff30 said:
There needs to be other approaches than punishing those who do not monetarily gain from using electricity.
1. Write your congressman and propose a bill that would place a STRONG progressive tax on cryptocurrency. IE, don't tax the shit out of the hobbyest who make under a grand a year. Make the top earners pay 80% tax on their gains and build an argument or your representative that it's not tax on the back of a working human, but a machine. Make your letter feel like it's the representative's idea and they will use it in a bill.
This is almost akin to Bill Gates' idea of taxing robots in the future. I hate using the word "progressive" but in this instance it's necessary.

2. Never but a used GPU for more than 1/4 of it's MSRP and make that a "meme" and mantra in all public forums (start a movement like the "Remember 2018 We Never PreOrder Games" but instead the meme would be "Remember never buy used GPUs. Let miners eat the loss."

3. Avoid sites that use cryptocurrency for payments. You are only promoting sites that put value on the cryptocurrency.

4. Criminalize cryptocurrency in the mind of the public. Remind people that the illegal drug community LOVES Monero and other untraceable cryptocurrency. Remind everyone of the theft of cryptocurrencies that routinely happen. You get the idea.

Those are a few ways to drain the value of crypto for the mega farmers. Those are the ones responsible for the high cost of PC gaming equipment.
Click to expand...


So for me, I see issues here. Anyone making money off mining, little guy or big fish alike, pays in order to make. If they are making more than they are paying more. Why must we "punish" anyone for investing of themselves to earn something?

If people are making income mining cryptocurrency then they already need to be paying their taxes on it. No need for special taxes that I see, unless a person can earn this money without anyone knowing about it and can easily avoid paying taxes on their income.

The way I see it, the only thing government should be doing is ensuring that miners are playing by the same rules as the rest of us are.

Besides, most of all this mining isn't even being done in the US so any law you pass will have so little effect as to be unworthy of the time Congress spends on it.
 
Last edited:
Gasaraki_ said:
Is this supposed to be serious? That whole post describes like just 5 percent of the US population.

Making $72,000 without doing anything - Check
Bought a condo last month - Check
I have another $50,000 sitting around - Check
Making it sound like he's just a poor bloke - Check
Click to expand...

tenor.gif
 
The market will take care of most of the miners when it crashes and they're left with nothing but a bunch of near obsolete hardware that's now worth even less due to a glut of it on the market. As is always the case with these 'gold rushes' or other get rich quick and easy schemes, a few will become rich on the backs of the rest of the people that didn't time things perfectly. They will then claim that their superior intellect and/or hard work got them there, instead of the dumb luck it really was.

Or you could earn your money by actually producing something of value instead of wasting electricity and other resources on meaningless computations that somebody arbitrarily set up as a method to dole out this 'free' money in a 'fair' manner.
 
lcpiper said:
Besides, most of all this mining isn't even being done in the US so any law you pass will have so little effect as to be unworthy of the time Congress spends on it.
Click to expand...

True. Most of the mining farms are build in countries that have insane cheap electricity prices. Like some parts of asia.

I needed a GPU myself a few weeks ago. I bought two used Asus Matrix 780 Ti for 260€ plus 10€ for SLI bridge:happy: I am pretty happy with it . VRAM is not a Problem in Full HD in my games.
 
James21 said:
This sounds like a rehash of every stupid idea recently put forth, with extra stupidity added in. The sheer idiocracy of it is staggering, I find it hard to understand how anyone could actually seriously write this as not a joke.

You want the government to get all over people's lives make huge amounts of rules and mess everything up because you can't get a firesale discount on a video card that you didn't want to buy at MSRP when you could have & even if there was a discount offered now, you'd probably still whine about wanting to wait for a new model. Oh and if good deals come up on used cards you want nobody to buy them just to spite people. Because somehow overclocking the hell out of your video card for "Gaming" in a hot enclosed case is some how this great noble usage? Oh and then when you want to sell your video card to upgrade to the latest one are you going to be busy trying to say... no not me... I had a noble usage of my card so you should ignore the fanatic mantra I espoused earlier and give me a good price for my used card? You'll be the one who now has to come up with 100% of the MSRP when you want to upgrade instead of only having to come up with 50% to 75% of it.


I'll tell you how the stupid idea of getting the government and taxes involved will go.... No more high end GPUs for anybody in the USA after the "power saving" requirements get passed, huge taxes on things you never expected that affect you... All the high end GPUs being sold to other countries and mining going strong there, all profits now going to Chinese and other asian countries. And you'll still whine and have nobody to blame but yourself as you are saddled with huge taxes on any hobby income and restrictions on what you can buy hardware wise.

Perhaps you might actually pull your head out of your rear end and realize that the mining craze is actually good long term for your precious "gaming" GPUs. As it has given AMD an unexpected boost financially that they can invest in producing more video cards and newer generations to keep the pressure up on Nvidia to make newer stuff available quicker. Otherwise you wind up with what happened in the CPU market once Intel ruled the world and you get basically more of the same stuff over and over with no actual significant improvement, just higher cost.

If you have actually been listening to Nvidia's public statements, they already consider gaming a mostly Legacy application for their future and are betting the company on Machine learning, Big Data manipulation, Autonomous vehicles, Data centers, Cloud computing, Cloud gaming & software sales / licencing. Yes they will continue to sell you video cards for gaming, but that's less and less of their focus going forward. A bit of easy profits selling tons of mining capable cards might just be enough to keep them producing cards that can also game very well and selling them to you at reasonable prices. (Remember also RAM prices have tripled or more in the past 2 years, so you're not going to get discounts on new cards with 12gb of GDDR6 memory).

If you actually want to get a video card for yourself for gaming and only want brand new because that makes you feel better, quit the stupid whining and just go look and get one at current MSRP (which is not going down due to component costs). You can pickup a card easily. I just got a MSRP EVGA 1070Ti yesterday from them, a 1080Ti earlier and have daily offers coming in for 1080 cards at a range of prices from current MSRP on up.

If you claim you "can't build a system" go to the EVGA web site, buy a case, a power supply and then a well priced 1080 or 1070 video card & start your build. Or come off your high horse and get a good deal on used cards when they come up.

Most of the whining and demands for the government to do something is simply coming from people who Didn't buy when they could because they were holding out for a fire sale, are unhappy that MSRP is going up due to component prices, still won't buy now when oppertunities come up at current MSRP, refuse to buy a used card for some ideological reason and are hoping that somehow they will magically be able to buy brand new video cards for fire sale prices if they could only mess up somebody else's stuff.
Click to expand...
Reeeeeeeee
 
lcpiper said:
It's a VISA card offered through USAA and requires $1,000 direct deposit into a USAA checking account each month, so that's where my paycheck goes. They touted it as a special offer several months back and I grabbed it. But my old one was 1.5% and it had no requirement other than USAA membership.
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My capital one card has no requirements and gives me 1.5% and my discover card gives me 3% but only on specific purchased. This quarter isit restaurants, so when me and my fam go out to eat I use that one.
 
lcpiper said:
You are missing the point or points.

First point I would make .... That if you believe something is true, it is to you, even if it isn't really true. If you believe their are no jobs, you won't look for a job properly, you won't find a job, you probably won't get a job, you'll tell other people there are no jobs.

If you believe that you can't save and buy a home without a mortgage, you won't ever try.

If you believe that you have to live in debt, you'll keep paying other people interest, you'll always give away a large slice of your income, the slice that you need in order to get ahead.

Do you think I always made $72K a year ? (Actually my wife and I together make over $140K together if I include my Army retirement).

I'm 58 and make this money, I joined the Army in 1981 and was making like $400 a month maybe. It got better over time, my rank climbed, I made Sergeant and by 1993 we had maybe $10K saved , and my wife started making some actual money. My money let us live and hobble along but every time we got some money saved something came along and wiped it out, (should sound familiar to many).

So I retired from the Army in 1998, 5 years after my wife started working we had over $150K saved/invested. I'm 38 years old then and I am hired as a contractor earning $45K + my Army retirement, another $10K a year, and of course my wife's income. So now I am able to contribute to our savings growth and in 2000, I'm 40 years old, we buy our 1st home and we were able to write a check for it, no mortgage. The house was about $145K and I bought myself a new (used 1996 Mits 3000GT to reward myself), we still had a few thousand left over.

From that point on, the money grew, my pay grew too. I started earning in the $70K range about seven years ago.

So try not to look at what I am telling you and think I was born to it, that the Tooth Fairy left something special under my pillow. Where I am today is the product of almost 40 years of work and savings, some good decisions and some luck as well.

Now if I am handing anyone a map for a successful future not everyone here is in a position to follow it. A 40 year old divorced guy working at Best Buy with a house payment, car payment, and a kid pulling child support isn't going to get much use out of someone like me saying that he should have turned left 20 years ago.

But a 25 year old with most of his life ahead of him might hear just enough of what I am saying to challenge some of what he believes and start making choices that will pay off for him.

I can only help who i can help.
Click to expand...

Haters going to hate.
 
I keep seeing 2 "solutions" on the internet for video cards: wait for the crypto-crash or legislation to control the pricing and distribution of technology, which would have to be nearly world-wide to be effective.

On the first one, I don't have a crystal ball so I can't say if this transfer of electricity into math (for no real benefit to mankind, unlike folding etc. IMHO) and then money will grow or flop.
As for the second, governments should not legislate how I sell my product (other than various accepted norms like preventing fraud and false advertising).

Until production of GPUs and memory meets emerging demand this will be the new normal. Our world's appetite for electronics is growing, and these devices all use memory also. What happens when Nvidia and memory makers keep throwing larger and larger amounts of production into new vehicles?
Corporations don't just throw new factories and production lines together on a whim and I believe they got caught with their pants down on this one.

As for the choices I made with this situation, my old laptop was outdated enough to no longer be effective. I could not even open some of the large Excel files I work with, newer games ran like poo, and I hate long load times. My goals were 1. Build rather than buy, 2. No spinning discs for storage, and a 1080ti video card. When I was ready to build the Titan Xp was cheaper than the 1080ti so I saved for a couple more weeks and then hit "add to cart." I refuse to cry about it if prices drop in the next 2 months or new tech launches in April, I am enjoying my system now.
 
Wonder how the new Ryzen 5 2400G, with built in RX Vega 11 would work as a "stop-gap" for mild gaming.. lol it would get you on a new platform.. that could hold you over until you could splurge for a discrete GPU.
 
It's only a matter of time before something like a Google Android set top box is our gaming machine.
Just log into your Steam or whatever and Google's render farm does all the work 4K , 8K 100+fps and they keep Al that processing power for crypto mining for themselves. GPUs won't be affordable or even remotely profitable for anyone soon.
 
griff30 said:
It's only a matter of time before something like a Google Android set top box is our gaming machine.
Just log into your Steam or whatever and Google's render farm does all the work 4K , 8K 100+fps and they keep Al that processing power for crypto mining for themselves. GPUs won't be affordable or even remotely profitable for anyone soon.
Click to expand...

I agree.. it's already there on a single use scale.. with Nvidia GameStream and having a Shield
 
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