Article: Why Xbox Live gaming should be free for all

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vischo

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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10018941-17.html

To make matters worse, the big lead Microsoft had over Sony in the third-party sphere is practically eliminated and it doesn't look like Nintendo will slow down anytime soon, nor will the Xbox 360 become a force in Asia.

So what does Microsoft need to do to right the ship and really turn things around?
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The writer seems to think that Microsoft/XBOX360 is declining or even failing.

But simply offering Xbox Live online play for free won't just have an impact on Xbox Live revenue, it'll also have a major impact on hardware sales. ...... Right now, Microsoft needs to increase hardware sales in any way it can.
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They have a successful business model now. Remember, consoles don't really make money. So, the writer wants to drop $250M in revenue (10M+ Live members, ~50% at Gold, paying $50/year) and thinks that it will be made up in hardware sales, which would be lucky to see $50 profit margin.

Sure I'd love to see Live for free, but I don't think its going to happen. Those of us who pay for Live understand where our money goes and appreciate the service we have in return. XBOX Live is the best platform for online gaming etc. Hands down.
 
Did you happen to see official sales numbers for this month? The PS3 is now overtaken the xbox 360 for month-by-month sales. I think this would kick ass. I hate paying for XBL. The biggest reason is because of silver. Wait a week, get what gold members had before, and DO NOT pay for bandwidth... Where exactly is the benefit (Besides the obvious online play. )

The reason subscriptions made sense on the ORIGINAL xbox is because Microsoft did the server hosting for most games. On the 360, most games require YOU to host them <_<.
 
vischo said:
The writer seems to think that Microsoft/XBOX360 is declining or even failing.
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It has...in Asia.
To make matters worse, the big lead Microsoft had over Sony in the third-party sphere is practically eliminated and it doesn't look like Nintendo will slow down anytime soon, nor will the Xbox 360 become a force in Asia.
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They couldn't give 360's away in Japan right now and that's practically what they're doing.

vischo said:
Sure I'd love to see Live for free, but I don't think its going to happen. Those of us who pay for Live understand where our money goes and appreciate the service we have in return. XBOX Live is the best platform for online gaming etc. Hands down.
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I don't think it'll happen either; Microsoft is too eager to milk that cash cow for all it's worth.

But if you think Live is the end-all, be-all solution for online gaming, you're sorely mistaken. Steam offers everything Live does, except the price. Free. PSN is maturing more and with the recent updates, it's getting there. I expect PSN to rival Live in a year, if not less. At that time, Microsoft can either make Live free and hope that sways potential Ps3 buyers, or they can sit on their laurels and pray that people will buy the console that charges for online play.

With most games going multiplatform, that takes a big chunk out of the equation. I'll hold onto my 360 for Gears of War 2, but I won't be paying for Live anymore to play it online. Live being free isn't a make-or-break for me, but it damn sure is nice to rest assured that any games I buy for the Ps3 can be played for free online over the PSN. In that regard, any multiplatform title I see with online multiplayer as a selling point - assuming the rest of the "comparisons" are a wash beetween the 360 and Ps3 versions - I will buy the Ps3 version. Same as I've bought Orange Box, CoD4 etc. for PC instead of 360, because I can play them online for free without having to pay for Xbox Live. My Gold membership just ran out, and I don't expect to re-up for Live Gold anytime soon.

Paying for Live is ridiculous; they don't host the games, my console does. I have the same # of ads in my Dashboard that a Silver member has. Ooh I get to download stuff a week earlier. :rolleyes: Come on already. Live has a lot of features, but it's the biggest shill in the history of gaming. Not to mention all the rampant potty mouth brats playing games on Live...can't forget about those. :rolleyes:
 
Why Microsoft should NOT make it free: $$$

If you don't like Xbox Live, game on the computer. It offers a better gaming experience anyways.
 
Anyone complaining about $5 a month for Xbox Live seriously needs a job.
 
noobman said:
Anyone complaining about $5 a month for Xbox Live seriously needs a job.
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Way to compare apples to oranges.

It has nothing to do with having a job or not; why should Xbox Live cost money when every other facet of online gaming (outside of MMO's) costs nothing? Explain that to me.

Again - they host 0 games and they have no servers for hosting games, so what am I paying for again? :rolleyes:

-unified friend list?
-voice chat?
-messaging?

Steam and PSN have those things and they both cost $0.
FFS Microsoft doesn't even save your account credentials on servers either. :rolleyes:

Please continue paying for Live with the illusion that your money is going somewhere other than Microsoft's pocketbook rather than realizing how much of a fallacy it is. :eek: Don't question where your money is going, just open that checkbook right up. :rolleyes: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
 
0mega said:
Did you happen to see official sales numbers for this month? The PS3 is now overtaken the xbox 360 for month-by-month sales. I think this would kick ass. I hate paying for XBL. The biggest reason is because of silver. Wait a week, get what gold members had before, and DO NOT pay for bandwidth... Where exactly is the benefit (Besides the obvious online play. )

The reason subscriptions made sense on the ORIGINAL xbox is because Microsoft did the server hosting for most games. On the 360, most games require YOU to host them <_<.
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360 outsold the PS3 this week in Japan :eek: (24,000 to 9,000)
http://www.pcworld.com/article/149912/xbox_360_beats_playstation_3_in_japan_weekly_sales_chart.html

Guys.. this fall the 360 is going to pick up major steam. ANOTHER price drop (putting the console in @ $199), the new Xbox experience, and cheaper game titles like Viva Pinata : Trouble in Paradise and Banjo Kazooie : Nuts and Bolts (both $39) are going to help.

Its only a matter of time before MS make Gold Live free, and when it does it will help even more. Once they do, then what will people bitch about?
 
AngryArtichoke said:
Why Microsoft should NOT make it free: $$$

If you don't like Xbox Live, game on the computer. It offers a better gaming experience anyways.
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Actually, all platforms considered, specifically including the PC.. there is nothing that is as unified and structured as Xbox Live is. Nothing on the PC comes remotely close to offering all that Xbox Live.

Best part about it all is.. its the standard. With 'other' consoles developers have the option of supporting the network completely, whereas with Live its the stardard and the consumer gets rewarded knowing that every game they own is held to the same standard.

Unified user IDs through Live is unmatched, anywhere on any platform. <--period It bothers people to admit it because they want so badly to believe it isn't true. Fact remains.. nothing comes close.
 
I'm a subscriber to Xbox Live, and have had a "Gold" account since one week before it officially launched on the original Xbox. Of course I'd love for it to become free, but I haven't had too much of a problem paying for it up to this point, which some people will call me stupid (or anybody else) for... oh well. Either way, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

The 360 outselling the PS3 in Japan is pretty crazy. I read about it earlier, at Engadget. I'm just surprised it seems to be Tales of Vesperia, of all games, to cause such an increase in hardware sales.
 
I suspect they'll have to do something if PSN continues to improve at the rate it is. Yay capitalism.
 
I bought a PS3 over a 360 mainly for blu ray capability and because online is free. I have been gaming online for free my entire life and I didn't plan to start paying now.
 
0mega said:
Did you happen to see official sales numbers for this month? The PS3 is now overtaken the xbox 360 for month-by-month sales. I think this would kick ass. I hate paying for XBL. The biggest reason is because of silver. Wait a week, get what gold members had before, and DO NOT pay for bandwidth... Where exactly is the benefit (Besides the obvious online play. )

The reason subscriptions made sense on the ORIGINAL xbox is because Microsoft did the server hosting for most games. On the 360, most games require YOU to host them <_<.
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sony has beaten ms in 2 of the last 24 months or so. All console sales were down significantly in the last npd. So the ps3 beats the 360 for a one month period by a small margin for the second time in 2 years, and it's the end of the 360?

I'd LOVE free xbl...who wouldn't? But the reasoning behind this article is very specious.

add in the price cut, the insanely good dashboard update coming and the fact that the 360 still dominates the other consoles in software attach rates, which is the cash cow of the gaming industry, and I have to think this columnist has no idea what the fuck he's talking about.

edit, laughing out loud at how he ends this shitty column by proclaiming this idea as RADICAL ...god, someone pays people for this? I can't wait for his hard hitting article on how it would be cool if we could play halo on the ps3, and how sweet it would be if his PC made lemonade.
 
Whilst people are paying, and Microsoft is making money (or they don't see themselves as losing money to the competition) this will remain.

Don't expect it to be free until the next gen after this.
 
Well it's definately more than one month Technoob;)
NPD numbers for 08
July
Playstation 3: 224,000.
Xbox 360: 204,000.

June
PlayStation 3: 405,000.
Xbox 360: 219,000.

May
PlayStation 3: 208,000.
Xbox 360 186,000

April
Xbox 360: 188,000.
PS3: 187,000.

March
Xbox 360: 262,000
PlayStation 3: 257,000

February
PlayStation 3: 280,800
Xbox 360: 254,600

Playstation 3: 269,000.
Xbox 360: 230,000.

And articles like this one are popping up alot more now like this one..
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080817-microsoft.html

The 360 has no chance this year, like theNoid stated earlier you've got Banjoo and Viva and Gears 2 and that's it and I not going to even go into what the PS3 has coming this fall cuz everybody already knows. Having said that though I don't want MS to fail cuz I've got a 360 just like you guys but if the PS3 beats it this year it will influence developers to make better games for it and not shitty 360 ports and everybody wins.
 
That's it this year? Orly? Fable 2 and gears 2? Those were this year last time I checked. Might sell a few copies.

So the sales have been closer.PS3 got a huge bump from one of their gold standard AAA titles, MGS4. Did the ps3 die when halo3 moved triple the units of the competition? Naw...but to judge the reaction, you'd think the xbox was selling japan-level in the US and Europe now or something.

I agree everyone wins when the ps3 and 360 are strong. My gripe is with a poorly written "article", and not with the ps3.
 
zero2dash said:

Paying for Live is ridiculous; they don't host the games, my console does. I have the same # of ads in my Dashboard that a Silver member has. Ooh I get to download stuff a week earlier. :rolleyes: Come on already. Live has a lot of features, but it's the biggest shill in the history of gaming. Not to mention all the rampant potty mouth brats playing games on Live...can't forget about those. :rolleyes:
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Could not agree more, good post
 
Technoob said:
That's it this year? Orly? Fable 2 and gears 2? Those were this year last time I checked. Might sell a few copies.

So the sales have been closer.PS3 got a huge bump from one of their gold standard AAA titles, MGS4. Did the ps3 die when halo3 moved triple the units of the competition? Naw...but to judge the reaction, you'd think the xbox was selling japan-level in the US and Europe now or something.

I agree everyone wins when the ps3 and 360 are strong. My gripe is with a poorly written "article", and not with the ps3.
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Yeah Fable 2 will sell good, but like I said people who own both consoles were really getting the shaft for a good while just because the PS3 wasn't selling good and as a result all we got was half assed ports now it's selling well and we get games that are equal to the 360 port if no better. I bought my PS3 for the exclusive games just like I did with my 360 and now the grass is finally green on both sides of the fence.;)
 
Creepingdeath1977 said:
Yeah Fable 2 will sell good, but like I said people who own both consoles were really getting the shaft for a good while just because the PS3 wasn't selling good and as a result all we got was half assed ports now it's selling well and we get games that are equal to the 360 port if no better. I bought my PS3 for the exclusive games just like I did with my 360 and now the grass is finally green on both sides of the fence.;)
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Yeah, and that's good. I don't know where you get "the 360 is dead this year" out of "both consoles are now doing well". But whatever
 
Compared to any other form of entertainment the price of XBOX live is minuscule. Online gaming on the XBOX 360 is dead simple and works effectively ... its a service ... you pay for services.
 
Draax said:
Compared to any other form of entertainment the price of XBOX live is minuscule. Online gaming on the XBOX 360 is dead simple and works effectively ... its a service ... you pay for services.
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So is PSN but I don't pay for that. . .
 
Psychotext said:
If that rumour about the price drop in September is true then I'd put money on them outselling the PS3 this year in the US.
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I disagree, even with the price drop MS can't escape the image of having shitty hardware, expensive proprietary accessories (aka 120gb MS harddrive for $179.:eek:) and paying for online play. And MS is looking more in more like their only worried about the $ and not the consumer and I believe that will be their downfall.

And I know their plenty of games coming out this fall but I think alot of people are underestimating LBP. I think it will be the biggest game of the year on any console, Media Molecule have stated they expect every Mario brothers level created by a few days after the title ships by users for download. And if things like that do happen for instance, it will sell ALOT.

But saying that I don't want MS to fail, I like my 360, I'm on my 5th so I obviously like something about the damn thing but I do think it would be great for everybody if Sony does in fact win this year in sales.
 
Creepingdeath1977 said:
120gb MS harddrive for $179.:eek:)
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True. The local best buy and future shop have stopped stocking these, and they have disappeared from the websites. :confused: With the new update allowing users to store games on the hard drive I know I'm going to need a larger HD.
 
Jerome36 said:
I'm a subscriber to Xbox Live, and have had a "Gold" account since one week before it officially launched on the original Xbox. .
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Same here. It don't find what I pay to be bad, but I also grew up in a time when people had to pay for Internet, software, music and movies.

zero2dash said:
Steam offers everything Live does
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zero2dash said:
Not to mention all the rampant potty mouth brats playing games on Live...can't forget about those.
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Including the racist, sexist 13 year olds that suffer from Greater Internet Fuckwadism and feel the need to scream fuck every 30 seconds. Unless Counter-strike has suddenly started attracting a new audience.


Creepingdeath1977 said:
I disagree, even with the price drop MS can't escape the image of having shitty hardware, expensive proprietary accessories (aka 120gb MS harddrive for $179.
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Expensive and proprietary to us. The vast majority of people who buy consoles are the same people that think 120Gb is a large number of gigs or that Scrubs is funny. Same with the hardware failures. I think we see it a lot because we are the type of people that get on the internet and proclaim our toy breaking is the worst thing ever, when I am sure most X-Boxes get along just fine without any issues.
 
AngryArtichoke said:
Why Microsoft should NOT make it free: $$$

If you don't like Xbox Live, game on the computer. It offers a better gaming experience anyways.
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I've always had a better online experience on Live, which is why I sold my gaming desktop for a laptop that's just good enough to play current games.
 
I dont think they should make it free, as long as there are people out there willing to pay for it they might as well keep doing it as I'm sure it pretty much prints money for them. 10 million subscribers x $50 a year = Half a billion dollars yearly, and I have a hunch it doesnt cost them anywhere near that much to run the service. Would be foolish for them to give up that kind of money.
 
Naldo said:
I dont think they should make it free, as long as there are people out there willing to pay for it they might as well keep doing it as I'm sure it pretty much prints money for them. 10 million subscribers x $50 a year = Half a billion dollars yearly, and I have a hunch it doesnt cost them anywhere near that much to run the service. Would be foolish for them to give up that kind of money.
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Yeah it will never be free, I'm sure the ad's alone pay for the service up keep. I mean it's not like their hosting games or anything.
 
Seems no one has mentioned the value added services of XBOX Live such as :

Movie rentals, TV Shows, Music Videos, Netflix (coming soon)
They have the largest catalog available for online services, something Steam, PSN, and Wii can't even compete with.

Its a lot more than just online gaming.

One thing I don't agree with the masses on is "hardware sales is the end all be all". Even if the Wii sells 300% more consoles, but XBOX360 sells 12M more titles, who is the real "winner" then?
 
I love the people who still bitch about p2p hosting, they obviously have not used XBL lately.

Frankly I get better connections and less lag on the p2p system of XBL hosting since it picks a host that is good for everyone and people are matched based on connection.

With servers they would all be located in Washington (most likely) and then people on the other coast and people in other countries would lag like crazy for the most part, cause distance does play into lag especially between consumer connections far away from each other.

p2p hosting is BETTER than servers IMO for the most part, and it works great. $50 a year is nothing, if it is to you, you should not have a 360 in the first place...Remember that the iPhone Data plan is $30 a MONTH now, Cell Phone plans around around $30/mo at their cheapest, power bills are hundreds for most, those stupid starbucks coffees or McDonalds big macs cost you $6 for one meal!

$50 should be no big deal for an awesome service that has no equal as of right now. PSN is a joke compared to XBL...
 
What's lame is that MS has their own "harddrives" that costs a billion dollars. But then again, I think that all these things to make it so you can't change your hdd yourself is lame.
 
Wondernerd said:
Including the racist, sexist 13 year olds that suffer from Greater Internet Fuckwadism and feel the need to scream fuck every 30 seconds.
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I don't play CS, which may be why I haven't seen the aforementioned 13 year old potty mouths on Steam. Quite the opposite; my playtime in TF2 with the majority of the other players having mics has been stellar. :)

vischo said:
Seems no one has mentioned the value added services of XBOX Live such as :

Movie rentals, TV Shows, Music Videos, Netflix (coming soon)
They have the largest catalog available for online services, something Steam, PSN, and Wii can't even compete with.

Its a lot more than just online gaming.
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Two things -
1) You don't need to pay for Gold to have access to the Marketplace so that's not really too much of a comparison. The argument being made here is Live should have free online play. :)

2) PSN has (or will have) movie rentals, tv shows and music videos. No Netflix streaming but that doesn't bother me as I no longer have a Netflix account. I do expect Sony to have this soon, however, given that Netflix has Sony Pictures movies for rent and Sony will likely threaten Netflix that they will pull their rights to rent their (Sony's) movies if they don't let Sony have Netflix streaming access over PSN.

Live is a great service, I'm not disputing that. I'm just disputing the fact that they shouldn't charge for it when the competition has services that are as good as Live (or will be shortly), yet they don't charge for them. (I'm not even bringing up Nintendo's pathetic online service because there practically is none.) Sony took a beating in the last gen with their lackluster online presence; I don't expect them to let Live mature further without putting up a fight and copying a lot of the ideas on Live and implementing them into the PSN. And on the PC side, Steam has all the same features already which is why Microsoft stopped charging for Live in Windows.
 
I have Live, I tend to stay away from Matchmaking and play with friends only, I can't stand the amount of little twerps that plague the Matchmaking and ranked games.

Aside from that anyone who outright supports paying for something that PC gamers and now PSN has for free are blindly supporting because they are fbs. I've argued it before and I'll do it again, Live has nothing really extra that any real gamer gives a crap about Movie Rentals and Tv Shows?!?! Whoopde go to the local Blockbuster or turn off your console. What I want to do is play games and have movie playback, I don't care about the stupid bells and whistles.

Another thing I am pissed at Xbox about is for ages they bagged on downloading to console because of Arcade users, then they come out saying "our bad, now that we've sold crappy non hdd units and units with severly gimped 20gig we'll come out and say download the games to the drive for faster loading, oh wait, buy our propriety drive for 500x the cost of a normal hdd"
 
Creepingdeath1977 said:
I disagree, even with the price drop MS can't escape the image of having shitty hardware, expensive proprietary accessories (aka 120gb MS harddrive for $179.:eek:) and paying for online play. And MS is looking more in more like their only worried about the $ and not the consumer and I believe that will be their downfall.
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...and all those points are pretty much irrelevant to the average buyer. If hardware issues were a problem sales would have gone down when they announced the 3 year RRoD coverage and the media was talking about the $1bn cost - they didn't. An average buyer wont touch their hard drive (neither do most hardcore 360 / PS3 buyers). Most people don't even bother to play online (only 60% of the hardcore userbase of the 360 have ever put their machine online, with a considerably lower percentage paying for gold).

We'll see what happens at the end of the year, but so far in 2008 they're selling more than they did in 2007... and no-one was saying the 360 was in any trouble then. The difference is that the PS3 is showing relatively good sales this year compared to hardly any last year.
 
Psychotext said:
...and all those points are pretty much irrelevant to the average buyer. If hardware issues were a problem sales would have gone down when they announced the 3 year RRoD coverage and the media was talking about the $1bn cost - they didn't. An average buyer wont touch their hard drive (neither do most hardcore 360 / PS3 buyers). Most people don't even bother to play online (only 60% of the hardcore userbase of the 360 have ever put their machine online, with a considerably lower percentage paying for gold).

We'll see what happens at the end of the year, but so far in 2008 they're selling more than they did in 2007... and no-one was saying the 360 was in any trouble then. The difference is that the PS3 is showing relatively good sales this year compared to hardly any last year.
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Well your the stat man so I'll take your word for it and yes some of what you say I agree with like the PS3 harddrive upgrade, cuz I haven't done mine yet. But I would like to have a bigger HD for my 360 after the install update comes out but there's no way in hell I'm giving $180 for one.

Maybe they'll drop a little in price after the update.
 
zero2dash said:
Way to compare apples to oranges.

It has nothing to do with having a job or not; why should Xbox Live cost money when every other facet of online gaming (outside of MMO's) costs nothing? Explain that to me.

Again - they host 0 games and they have no servers for hosting games, so what am I paying for again? :rolleyes:

-unified friend list?
-voice chat?
-messaging?

Steam and PSN have those things and they both cost $0.
FFS Microsoft doesn't even save your account credentials on servers either. :rolleyes:

Please continue paying for Live with the illusion that your money is going somewhere other than Microsoft's pocketbook rather than realizing how much of a fallacy it is. :eek: Don't question where your money is going, just open that checkbook right up. :rolleyes: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
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PSN is comparable for free, yeah. I also use Steam all the time, and IMO it kicks the crap out of both systems.

I never said that I believed that the money went anywhere. In fact, I know that I'm effectively paying for a service that is free on the PS3 and the PC.

I'm just not cheap enough to whine about paying $5 a month, especially when it means that I can play games with my friends, who now live really far away :rolleyes: If it costs me $5 a month to play Gears of War 2 and NHL 09 with my friends then so be it. The fact that it costs something doesn't mean that I enjoy it any less. Perhaps if you weren't so bothered about holding onto that $5 dollar bill you could start enjoying the game time.

The only thing that I haven't really bought into is the gamerpoint system for game updates and new maps. I bought the game, so I should get the game content... I refuse to pay for weapon upgrades, extra map packs, and other things of the sort.
 
This is a bit off topic, but if MS could find a way to shrink the 360 the same way Sony shrank the PS2 I think they'd see way bigger response from consumers than if they were to make XBL free. I'm sure hoping for a mini360 is wishful thinking on my part, but damn, I'd buy a second 360 if they did that.
 
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