pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,183
57 years is decent. it'd still be there if that first cable didnt get cut or fail, whichever one chooses to believe.Puerto Rico in a nutshell. Nothing there lasts for long.
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57 years is decent. it'd still be there if that first cable didnt get cut or fail, whichever one chooses to believe.Puerto Rico in a nutshell. Nothing there lasts for long.
Pretty amazing that drone was there right at that moment.
Probably got to the time of life where there was not much funding for general maintenance of the thing, and once something breaks the decision comes down to not worry about it until... yeah until this.57 years is decent. it'd still be there if that first cable didnt get cut or fail, whichever one chooses to believe.
Yeah *only* 57 years in the middle of a jungle. Weak!Puerto Rico in a nutshell. Nothing there lasts for long.
My mother doesn’t want to go back much anymore, it’s been going downhill for at least the last two decades. Last time I was back I still remember still remember listening to the 727s go to TOGA as I swam at the beach...tells you how long it’s been since I was there.Puerto Rico in a nutshell. Nothing there lasts for long.
This right here. We are so bad about maintaining things. I think its a testament to how well built it was that it lasted so long. When I heard the first cable broke I expected them to rush out and fix it right away. But somewhere some bean counter decided we didnt need to spend this money anymore for whatever reason.There’s something to be said for regularly scheduled maintenance and inspections.
but all those things require regular infusions of money
When the first cable broke they decided that it was too dangerous to attempt to repair it. At that point, the question became one of how to demolish it safely.When I heard the first cable broke I expected them to rush out and fix it right away. But somewhere some bean counter decided we didnt need to spend this money anymore for whatever reason.
How many of us do that with our personal vehicles? I try to be good about mine, but I am far from perfect (mainly due to laziness in not wanting to deal with it).There’s something to be said for regularly scheduled maintenance and inspections.
When the first cable broke they decided that it was too dangerous to attempt to repair it. At that point, the question became one of how to demolish it safely.
How many of us do that with our personal vehicles? I try to be good about mine, but I am far from perfect (mainly due to laziness in not wanting to deal with it).
I wonder if you realize that PR has the oldest standing fort in all the Americas. El Morro has been standing since 1539 making it 481 years old now. How many structures in the continental United States can you name that are that old without doing a Google search? Let's not even get into the fact that this is on an island that's only 35 miles wide and 100 miles across, and let's also forget that the island is habitually hit by tropical storms and hurricanes fairly often.Puerto Rico in a nutshell. Nothing there lasts for long.
Well forts do tend to have the heft to make that happen.I wonder if you realize that PR has the oldest standing fort in all the Americas. El Morro has been standing since 1539 making it 481 years old now. How many structures in the continental United States can you name that are that old without doing a Google search? Let's not even get into the fact that this is on an island that's only 35 miles wide and 100 miles across, and let's also forget that the island is habitually hit by tropical storms and hurricanes fairly often.
Yeah, you are right, nothing lasts there... /s
This right here. We are so bad about maintaining things. I think its a testament to how well built it was that it lasted so long. When I heard the first cable broke I expected them to rush out and fix it right away. But somewhere some bean counter decided we didnt need to spend this money anymore for whatever reason.
Hopefully if they build a new one, they will find a way to make it so that maintenance isn't so expensive.It was already too late to save it by the time cables started snapping. Every single cable on all three support towers was decades old by that point, so even if people had risked their lives to replace the broken cables, all of the other cables would have also had to be changed. Just replacing the broken cables was already estimated to cost several million dollars, replacing all of the cables would be tens of millions of dollars. Arecibo would have needed to have regular cable replacements every X years to continue to be safe to work on.
The maintenance cost alone would have doomed Arecibo to the scrap heap. For tens of millions of dollars, it's cheaper to just rebuild the dish. Maybe we'll get lucky and a new observatory of the type will be funded for construction.
Hopefully if they build a new one, they will find a way to make it so that maintenance isn't so expensive.
It was already too late to save it by the time cables started snapping. Every single cable on all three support towers was decades old by that point, so even if people had risked their lives to replace the broken cables, all of the other cables would have also had to be changed. Just replacing the broken cables was already estimated to cost several million dollars, replacing all of the cables would be tens of millions of dollars. Arecibo would have needed to have regular cable replacements every X years to continue to be safe to work on.
The maintenance cost alone would have doomed Arecibo to the scrap heap. For tens of millions of dollars, it's cheaper to just rebuild the dish. Maybe we'll get lucky and a new observatory of the type will be funded for construction.
It cost (adjusted) 85 million. The repair cost was estimated at 12. Quite a steal considering 85 million will never happen. Personally I think 12 was a govt inflated number. But hey even 12 is better than 85...
Also thee "its dangerous" is a specious argument. At my last job we paid people to work on high voltage LIVE equipment on a regular basis. And yes someones even died once. It happens but its a risk we paid fo and a risk people are willing to take. You take every precaution you can but you dont just shrug, walk away, and say its dangerous and people would have to risk their lives.
It's always a matter of probability right? What's the chance you are going to get an injury, can we minimize it?Also thee "its dangerous" is a specious argument. At my last job we paid people to work on high voltage LIVE equipment on a regular basis. And yes someones even died once. It happens but its a risk we paid fo and a risk people are willing to take. You take every precaution you can but you dont just shrug, walk away, and say its dangerous and people would have to risk their lives.
Heh, I was just thinking "if only they could carefully lower it somewhere for maintenance" right before I read your post. Ofcourse as a certified armchair hindsight engineer designing these things is always so easy !Where they could probably save a great deal of money is designing the cradle so it can be lowered to the ground, which would make maintenance and inspections a lot cheaper and safer. It'd also protect the cradle in the event of a hurricane, which is one of the factors that contributed to the cradle collapsing.
$8 million to rebuild? Good luck with that. It’ll probably take $8 million to just clean up the existing debris. Building a new one would be several million more.Looks like they want to rebuild it now.
https://hypebeast.com/2021/1/puerto-rico-arecibo-telescope-8-million-usd-rebuilding?amp=1
didnt click the link eh? 8M for cleanup to get rebuilding started...$8 million to rebuild? Good luck with that. It’ll probably take $8 million to just clean up the existing debris. Building a new one would be several million more.
I suspect these guys are high. Cleanup and redesign for $8m? I’m not even sure you could do cleanup and removal for that price.didnt click the link eh? 8M for cleanup to get rebuilding started...
for local cleanup down there $8M probably goes a lot farther.I suspect these guys are high. Cleanup and redesign for $8m? I’m not even sure you could do cleanup and removal for that price.
FTA
“Despite committing $8 million USD, the amount will only be sufficient to get the rebuilding process started, covering the removal and disposal of old debris and the design of a new telescope. Due to the state of the site, reparations to the old telescope has been deemed inappropriate, meaning a whole new installation will have to be constructed from scratch.”
Maybe but I suspect a dump is awfully further away than most projects, and you’re going to deal with civilized rules because of where it is.for local cleanup down there $8M probably goes a lot farther.
Well guess even without reading the article in its entirety I was still right in my assumption.didnt click the link eh? 8M for cleanup to get rebuilding started...
I have a feeling this will be a project that is first started and then never finished due to unrealistic financial expectations. $8 million for clean up is one thing. But if I had to take a wild guess, it’s likely $100+ million to rebuild it with modern hardware. It cost $9.3 million in 1963. With inflation alone that is $80 million today.It makes more sense to do something if they're going to fully rebuild it from scratch. The main reason I saw given for not fixing it was that it wasn't worth it because it was outdated but they can fix that if they're rebuilding from scratch.
Since the government is the one pushing for something to happen I doubt they're going to make disposing of debris too difficult or expensive. Unfortunately it looks like they don't have nearly enough funding secured so who knows if this will actually go anywhere.
Yeah China just spent a hundred and eighty million on their own massive scope, so I would expect a higher price (for our own more advanced sensors). I'm thinking 250 million.I have a feeling this will be a project that is first started and then never finished due to unrealistic financial expectations. $8 million for clean up is one thing. But if I had to take a wild guess, it’s likely $100+ million to rebuild it with modern hardware. It cost $9.3 million in 1963. With inflation alone that is $80 million today.
That seems likely though some of the technology involved might have gotten cheaper even after inflation.I have a feeling this will be a project that is first started and then never finished due to unrealistic financial expectations. $8 million for clean up is one thing. But if I had to take a wild guess, it’s likely $100+ million to rebuild it with modern hardware. It cost $9.3 million in 1963. With inflation alone that is $80 million today.
This is the [H]. This is the way.didnt click the link eh? 8M for cleanup to get rebuilding started...
I have a feeling this will be a project that is first started and then never finished due to unrealistic financial expectations. $8 million for clean up is one thing. But if I had to take a wild guess, it’s likely $100+ million to rebuild it with modern hardware. It cost $9.3 million in 1963. With inflation alone that is $80 million today.