Are Reference Cards OK?

[Unknown-One]

I think you'd have to try really hard to make the blower a better option in most cases.
I mean maybe you could take the absolute worst case scenario, something like the garbage ACX cooler on a 780 Ti and it would would (overall) make more noise to achieve equal temps.

You're missing the point. It's not necessarily the cooler itself making the noise, it's the fact that you now need case fans in order to keep the heat from the graphics card from building up in the case. This is a non-issue with the reference cooler.

A case fan or two spinning @ 600~1000 RPM is all it really takes, and even then the whole setup will be quieter and cooler than a reference blower with none of the extra fans.

Attempting to use that setup with (such low case fan speeds) and placing any load on the system results in my GPU, CPU, and chipset all running at MUCH higher temps than with the reference GPU heatsink + case fans at 0 RPM.

And everything was louder...

Point being, if open-air cards weren't better, they wouldn't exist. Or at least they wouldn't be so popular.

They're better if you don't care about noise. If all you want are low temps then they're great.

I still think you're over-exaggerating the negative effects of "circulating hot air" since the shitty dissipation of blower coolers will hurt your temps significantly more.

Sure, the GPU core itself runs a bit warmer with the reference cooler, but my ambient case temp, CPU temp, and chipset temp are all significantly cooler (and with lower fan-speeds all-around).

It became clear very quickly that I was better off just running the reference cooler at higher-RPM to attain better cooling performance, as the noise-increase from that was comparable to the noise-increase from the altered fan profiles required to support an ACX cooler.

 

[Odellus]

i feel like i'm in the twilight zone.

 

[wabbitseason]

Nothing's wrong with my setup. I've simply found that running fans at 0 RPM is quieter than running them at-speed, and the reference cooler allows more case fans to remain at 0 RPM more of the time.

This results in a net-benefit to overall system noise that is totally destroyed by using a GPU heatsink that exhausts into the case.

What is the loudest component in any high-end system? The video card. Keeping your case fans off and using a blower cooler makes absolutely no sense at all. You are completely negating the benefit of having no case fan noise if you have loud internal fans running. The irony is that you could run your case fans at low RPMs and reduce the load on your GPU blower fan, getting you less noise and lower temperatures for free.

Why don't you try running quality 120mm ball-bearing fans (ex: GT-AP13) at 1000 RPM all of the time? Get a little bit of actual airflow in your case and your problems with non-reference cooling will disappear. It doesn't have to become a wind tunnel. Nobody uses fans that ramp up in response to load anymore, besides on the GPU. You design a cooling solution that is quiet enough that you can just keep it at the same level all of the time.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

To be blunt, it's you vs the rest of the world.
I've never seen a compelling argument for reference cards going hand-in-hand with silence. Not in my own setups or elsewhere, and I've never seen "ambient airflow" being such a huge concern.

We're having a borderline tinfoil hat discussion here.

Sure, the GPU core itself runs a bit warmer with the reference cooler, but my ambient case temp, CPU temp, and chipset temp are all significantly cooler (and with lower fan-speeds all-around).

Attempting to use that setup with (such low case fan speeds) and placing any load on the system results in my GPU, CPU, and chipset all running at MUCH higher temps than with the reference GPU heatsink + case fans at 0 RPM.

And everything is louder...

We've already told you, you're exaggerating.
Taking 20C+ off your GPU will reduce noise more than adding 2-3C to everything else. If it's about minimizing noise then you need to distribute heat properly in your case. Putting it all on your GPU as a blower is not the most efficient way to handle the heat.

I'll take neglible temp gains on everything else if it means reducing the noise my GPU makes by half. Considering all of my fans are already running at their lowest possible speed, I don't think I stand to gain much.

 

[Unknown-One]

What is the loudest component in any high-end system? The video card.

Right now it's the damn H55 attached to my graphics card, yeah.

Reference cooler beats the tar out of this thing at idle. Currently waiting on an H75 to arrive, which will hopefully have a quieter pump...

Keeping your case fans off and using a blower cooler makes absolutely no sense at all. You are completely negating the benefit of having no case fan noise if you have loud internal fans running.

You're not thinking this through.

Try silencing the noise-profile of 5 different fans... it's pretty much impossible without a sheet of acoustic foam a foot thick. There's simply too much range to cover. This is made even more problematic by fans that are bolted directly to the case itself, which will make the case itself vibrate.

Silencing a single internal fan is MUCH simpler. It's a single point-source that's surrounded by open air inside the case, rather than a general hum coming from everywhere.

The irony is that you could run your case fans at low RPMs and reduce the load on your GPU blower fan, getting you less noise and lower temperatures for free.

Running my case fans at low RPM doesn't really drop the GPU temp when I'm using the reference cooler. The case runs pretty much stone-cold under any load condition as long as the reference cooler (or an AIO water cooler) is used.

Why don't you try running quality 120mm ball-bearing fans (ex: GT-AP13) at 1000 RPM all of the time? Get a little bit of actual airflow in your case and your problems with non-reference cooling will disappear.

Been there, done that. Never as quiet as no-fans.

Also not a fan of PWM fans of any kind. They all seem to have issues with ticking at low-RPM (even the ridiculously expensive ones).

Nobody uses fans that ramp up in response to load anymore. You design a cooling solution that is quiet enough that you can just keep it at the same level all of the time.

Uh, what? How does that make sense?

That would mean fixing my fans at the speed required to keep the system cool under full-load... why would I make that level of noise ALL THE TIME for no reason?

 

[wabbitseason]

Obviously nothing is as quiet as no fans. But the fan speeds required to keep my components cool under full load are very low. Very, very low. Low enough that I just keep the speeds constant at all times. I have excellent hearing and never fucked it up like 90% of my friends with loud headphones and concerts without earplugs.

You will hear a pin drop in a silent room, and it will bother you. You won't hear that pin drop in a room with a very small, but measureable level of background noise. Consider accepting extremely quiet over silent. Your setup is very far from silent already with a reference blower cooler.

Your pursuit of silence is perfectly reasonable. But it's unreasonable to take that position and then advocate using blower coolers. It is absolutely not a simple task to isolate a blower cooler acoustically. You can't enclose the blower in sound-deadening foam. You line the case walls, which still lets noise escape through any holes and through your stationary fans. And if you try to make your case air-tight, you'll be starving your blower. It isn't possible under practical conditions anyway.

You should be using a passive solution if true silence is your goal.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Your pursuit of silence is perfectly reasonable. But it's unreasonable to take that position and then advocate using blower coolers.

If he's talking about idle then he's right.
A blower cooler with a single fan will always be quieter than an open-air card with dual fans, at idle. You might be able to find some custom cards with ridiculously low fan profiles compared to the blowers but I doubt it. There's also less air moving in the case itself so it'll produce less noise overall. That's assuming you run them both in the exact same case; IE: No extra fans whatsoever (or none at all).

Under load, reference will always be louder.
Hell you could take your fanless case + reference card, remove the reference card and replace it with any kind of open-air card (change nothing else) and the rig as a whole will still be quieter and probably cooler than the ref card. Anybody who says they can make a more silent case with a reference card is a liar. Short and simple.

2 + 2 = 5.
The sky is red.
Reference cards are quieter under load.

Like I said, tinfoil hats. You would have to try very, very hard to make a reference card a better option than an open-air card.

 

[Unknown-One]

Under load, reference will always be louder.
Hell you could take your fanless case + reference card, remove the reference card and replace it with any kind of open-air card (change nothing else) and the rig as a whole will still be quieter and probably cooler than the ref card. Anybody who says they can make a more silent case with a reference card is a liar. Short and simple.

I beg to differ.

Try the ACX cooler at 100% fan speed some time, that thing is NOT quiet. I ended up having to swap its fans to make it even semi-bearable for extended use.

And even then, it still cooled terribly. Had trouble keeping temps below 80c (where as the reference cooler had no trouble maintaining temperature, and never had to crank up to full speed to do so).

Your setup is very far from silent already with a reference blower cooler.

Depends on the level of load in question. While idle and under low levels of load, the reference 780 heatsink is actually pretty darn quiet.

The ONLY black-mark on its record when running in an idle state is the PWM fan, which ticks at low RPM. If that weren't an issue, I probably would have never bothered attempting to swap-out the reference cooler at all.

As it stands, with all the coolers I've tried, I've reached the following conclusions:
- Dual-fan coolers = Quieter than reference at idle, louder than reference at load.
- AIO water coolers = Louder than reference at idle, quieter than reference at load.

We'll see if the H75 I have on-the-way changes the latter conclusion...

Your pursuit of silence is perfectly reasonable. But it's unreasonable to take that position and then advocate using blower coolers. It is absolutely not a simple task to isolate a blower cooler acoustically.

Far simpler than trying to isolate an entire case's-worth of fans... which was my point.

One fan in one place with one noise profile makes finding absorption material and mounting it appropriately a far easier task.

You can't enclose the blower in sound-deadening foam. You line the case walls, which still lets noise escape through any holes and through your stationary fans. And if you try to make your case air-tight, you'll be starving your blower. It isn't possible under practical conditions anyway.

Now you're just being absurd. Of course you can't make the case air-tight, but you can close up a good portion of the vent holes (the R3 includes blanking plates with even more acustic foam pre-mounted to them for all of its fan holes).

At this point, I can easily tell the difference between the blanking plate being installed / removed from the closed side panel of my case (which faces away from me). A single cover can make an appreciable difference, you don't have to turn the box into a tomb of foam.

You should be using a passive solution if true silence is your goal.

There is no passive solution for a GTX 780 at-present.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

- Dual-fan coolers = Quieter than reference at idle, louder than reference at load.

Because all dual-fan coolers are created equal.
It's not our fault you bought an ACX.

I hope some extra context makes your statement sound less stupid.

 

[wabbitseason]

OP: Get some quiet case fans and get a good non-reference cooler paired with an efficient GPU. That is the scientifically-superior option for very quiet, high-performance PCs.

 

[Unknown-One]

Because all dual-fan coolers are created equal.
It's not our fault you bought an ACX.

I actually went through a pile of ACX coolers (multiple RMAs) AND when EVGA couldn't deliver one with quiet-enough non-ticking fans, I swapped the fans for much nicer ones on my own.

The thing performs well, but ONLY in an open-air configuration. Inside a case it just fails miserably unless you generate some serious airflow for it (and generating the requisite airflow = lots of noise)

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

So then raise your criticisms with the ACX cooler and more people would agree with you. It sucks. It's among the worst third-party cooler on the market.
All open-air cards do not suck.

 

[Unknown-One]

So then raise your criticisms with the ACX cooler and more people would agree with you. It sucks. It's among the worst third-party cooler on the market.
All open-air cards do not suck.

I have yet to find one dual-fan cooler that doesn't have this problem (because they ALL have the common design flaw of exhausting heat into the case).

The Arctic Cooling Twin Turbo II I used to use on my HD 6970 is no better, but the stock heatsink on the 6970 was so crap that it was actually a step-up there...

 

[xorbe]

Are Reference Cards OK?

Reference cards get all the chicks.

 

[mls1995]

Personally I think the Titan and 780 reference cooler is pretty damn awesome. Basically the best reference cooler ever designed, IMO.

While if you're an overclocking nut and don't mind the negatives associated with that, you can get aftermarket though. But, reference is FAR better for SLI and SFF form factors. If you SLI custom cooled cards, the top card will generally get way too hot over time and can cause issues. Reference SLI does not have this problem since air is exhausted out of the case, which is the beauty of reference cooling if you opt for it. It's also quiet at stock settings, however, you'll need to up the fan speed if you want to overclock (which obviously would be less quiet).

I totally agree, I was very, very impressed by the titan cooler in my reference 780

 

[dragonstongue]

case fans generally quite quiet. NO ONE stated for silent builds except you unknown one, and even silent builds, a good non-ref slaps a ref cooler silly. I could leave mine overclocked at 45% fan and it would very rarely break 75c reference it would easily hit that and ramp up and down.

Reference coolers are louder and do not cool as well from a set temperature say 25c ambient compared to most dual or triple fan non ref, they blow heat out of itself which is useful in some circumstances.

core/vreg/vram are all parts of the card, reference coolers tend to cool every part but not as good as non reference.

Example, I have had 3 cards from AMD directly and countless of friends have had numerous AMD and Nvidia cards over the years. The ONLY reference cooler that was worth it straight up were the very low end cards or the top end which that of course would be the Titan cooler which are quite decent.

Anyways, 4870-6870 both stock coolers even with TIM change were from 5-20c hotter at idle and load at a set 53-64% fan speed then a non-reference cooler (non reference I swapped the 6870 to a S1 Rev 2 with 2 fan rated at 34dba and 72cfm) that the fans ran full out constant, the non reference was far quieter could only slightly hear above rest of case fans chosen for good airflow and lower noise reference cooler was noticeably louder could start hearing ~42%. My 7870 is MSI TFIII 7870 I do not hear it unless I make it go faster then 62% it gets annoying whir to it ~78%. Used in CM590-Raven 3 for 4870-6870 and raven 3-Antec GX700 for 7870.

Either way vastly different setups for overall airflow in CFM, cards being used etc, Raven 3 the reference was the way to go as it would get heat out of case faster at the cost of the cpu heatsink getting slightly warmer. You need to look at all sides. An efficient heatsink (more surface area) will wick heat faster so the fans have less of a hard time blowing this now warmer are out, where if the cooler gets hotter it stays hotter and its efficiency gets hurt.

Anyways. unless all your case fans are temperature controlled, they DO NOT have to spin faster when card blows into case, it just disrupts case airflow and yes it generally will heat up say your cpu board components no argument there. I personally like my card to take care of itself but I have yet to use or see my buddies use a non reference that was worse unless they had crap system airflow.

Reference, nothing wrong with them, non-reference keeps card cooler less noise but also heats up case faster as it blows into it all that heat, there are considerations to be made, multi-card, at least 1 of them the one that's sandwiched is usually best as a reference so at least it gets less airflow starved.

OP asked a simple question are reference cards ok, yes, stick with a good maker (Asus,Gigabyte, MSI etc) there is nothing wrong with them, if you have ok case airflow and only plan on using a single card, you might think about going non-reference after reading reviews on a couple of choices as they tend to run cooler and quieter and usually also have a mild overclock and at least I have noticed ~$15 or so price premium IMHO its worth it.

 

[dragonstongue]

why in the bloody hell would you use "run this card at 100%" as an argument, if you need to run a card at 100% of its fan speed to keep it cool you are doing something or the card is terribly fubared.

H55 on the gpu, hmm, not 100% sure but, they are not quiet and far as I know H55 is not meant to cool down a gpu level of heat production which many are 175W TDP or higher(not sure which you have it strapped to you may want to forgo H75 even and go with a different choice) no AIO except for the newest top end ones are reasonable at this(variable pump etc) Pump noise + fan noise as they need pressure to push air through the rad. A low pressure fan will 99% of the time make less noise then a high pressure fan (unless used poorly) Most blower fans and fans used on rads of any type are higher pressure higher noise vs many used on non reference are low pressure and tend to not be as swept blades so produce less noise (as the heatsinks themselves are vastly less constrained)

Blower style seem to be fine up to ~30% most dual-triples I have seen are goo to about 40% before they become noticeable noise in a properly ventilated case, that is a case the average person uses, not a high performance one, and not one built for silence or noise reduction as much as possible.

Most non-reference are actually quite good now vs when they first started making them. If you feel this is not true, well then you are running stuff in a particular way that benefits you far more then other scenarios.

 

[xoleras]

Why would you even compare the reference 6870 or 4870 coolers to the Titan cooler used on the 700 series? I assume that's most relevant here since the OP hinted at getting an 800 series card. Here's the difference, the 6870 cooler reference was shit, the 290X reference cooler is major dogshit, the Titan reference cooler is not shit. It's actually very very good. Being that the OP hinted at getting the 880 if i'm not mistaken, i'd assume that NV would use a similar reference design on the 880. I don't think they would regress in terms of reference cooling, if they do...that would be unfortunate because the Titan shroud is extremely impressive.

It's actually the best reference cooler ever designed and it is quiet at stock settings even at load. Only when you overclock would you have to potentially up the manual fan speed, otherwise you can leave it at stock auto fan 24/7 and it is very very quiet. You can simply look at reviews of any GTX Titan or 780 reference to see the noise levels, it's an amazing reference shroud. I've used quite a few older reference shrouds such as the 6970, 7970, 5870, GTX 580, GTX 285 (this list goes on forever...) and the Titan is in a different league. It is WAY WAY better. Now, you can overclock better with less noise using a custom cooler, but the reference Titan shroud really is in a league of its own IMO when compared to any other reference blower. And while I do like custom designs (mainly for custom PCB components), there are those who are better served by reference. Reference blowers are always better for mGPU, SFF, and are less subject to temperature variance due to chassis size/airflow.

 

[phorkz]

nice discussion in here, though i am still a little confused haha

 

[Unknown-One]

why in the bloody hell would you use "run this card at 100%" as an argument, if you need to run a card at 100% of its fan speed to keep it cool you are doing something or the card is terribly fubared.

Because that's what I needed to do to make the ACX stay even reasonably cool while using the fan profile that worked flawlessly with the reference cooler.

It was basically just recirculating its own heat, which the reference cooler has no trouble with. To solve that problem, I have to up the fan speed of the case fans... which makes more noise, and defeats the purpose of using the ACX.

H55 on the gpu, hmm, not 100% sure but, they are not quiet and far as I know H55 is not meant to cool down a gpu level of heat production which many are 175W TDP or higher(not sure which you have it strapped to you may want to forgo H75 even and go with a different choice) no AIO except for the newest top end ones are reasonable at this(variable pump etc) Pump noise + fan noise as they need pressure to push air through the rad. A low pressure fan will 99% of the time make less noise then a high pressure fan (unless used poorly) Most blower fans and fans used on rads of any type are higher pressure higher noise vs many used on non reference are low pressure and tend to not be as swept blades so produce less noise (as the heatsinks themselves are vastly less constrained)

The H55 has no trouble dealing with the heat output of a GTX 780. Load temperature never really exceeds 60c, and that's with my own personal choice of silent fan installed on the radiator + overvolt + 1300MHz core OC.
This is also with the radiator acting as my rear exhaust fan, so it's cooling the graphics card with air from inside the case. Even then, temps are great.

The cooler isn't straining to keep up AT ALL, so as far as cooling performance goes, there's no need for anything better. The problem is that the pump on the H55 makes a buzzing sound.

The H75 is in the same class as the H55, but uses a different pump. That's why I'm giving it a try.

Most non-reference are actually quite good now vs when they first started making them. If you feel this is not true, well then you are running stuff in a particular way that benefits you far more then other scenarios.

Can't really say this is true in any of my builds. There's always something worse about the non-reference coolers when you compare them against the reference 780 / Titan cooler.

 

[Odellus]

go record sound levels and temperatures of your configurations, detail your methods, and post your findings here. there are multitudes of reviews spanning several years that refute what you are claiming, so unless you do the latter and prove us (them) wrong, everything you've said is meaningless.

 

[Unknown-One]

go record sound levels and temperatures of your configurations, detail your methods, and post your findings here. there are multitudes of reviews spanning several years that refute what you are claiming, so unless you do the latter and prove us (them) wrong, everything you've said is meaningless.

A good portion of reviewers test cards in open-air test benches, not inside of cases. This skews results.

I'll gladly test if you'll send the required equipment my way

And what I've said is hardly meaningless, it's pretty simple. One fan keeping a graphics card cool and removing almost ALL of its heat from a case in one step can VERY easily be a better setup than just dumping all of that heat into the case and letting your case fans try and sort it out after the fact.

Premises:
1. Dual-fan coolers exhaust all heat into the case, while the reference blower exhausts nearly all heat out of the case.
2. The result of the above is that one needs more case airflow with a dual-fan cooler than the reference cooler.
3. More case airflow means more fans and/or more fan-speed from your existing case fans.
4. More fans and/or faster fan speeds results in an increased level of noise.

Conclusion: Increased noise from case fans can cancel out some (possibly all) of the noise savings from using a dual-fan cooler.

 

[Odellus]

i can just as easily state that the non-reference coolers on my gpu and cpu are so efficient that the extra heat in the case has absolutely no effect on temperatures whatsoever, regardless of the presence of case fans.

 

[dragonstongue]

Did I compare a 4870 or 7870 to a Titan, NO never stated that.

Titan cooler maybe reference in the fact that it is used on the Titan/780Ti but it is NOT reference really, it is a full blown custom cooler.

Though as stated in many ways by many folks, reference coolers are useful in certain aspects, and non-ref in other. If you rip apart the thinking on each then yes it can get confusing as this thread shows.

Compare the card with the various cooling methods then get the one that will work best for your application that's all you can do.

Efficiency is what matters most Uknown you don't need a ton of noise to have great cooling, there are cases with 1 very low dba and cfm fan that can hold their own vs cases that have 3 fans, its all in the way its done. Physics are physics, to cool you need airflow, if there are things especially constrained rads mesh or whatever then higher pressure is generally needed or much higher cfm to make up the difference so thereby temps as you state will go up. All in how its done, surface area and ambient temps win out more often then not, so, hotter card will cool less effectively so fans spin higher but a card/system that is able to stay cooler for longer does not need to have high noise levels as example to keep it cool, again, all in how it is done.

I can declock/devolt my card to very low levels and still play bf3-4 quite well 35% fan and temps max of 42c with my TFIII 7870. If fan on my card is ~45% or lower I can barely hear it and this case really sux for keeping noise in.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

4. More fans and/or faster fan speeds results in an increased level of noise.

Conclusion: Increased noise from case fans can cancel out some (possibly all) of the noise savings from using a dual-fan cooler.

Completely ignoring the fact that the blower cooler is nearly twice as loud as a decent open-air card.
I could run something like the ASUS DCII along with 2-3 extra case fans, and still produce less noise and cooler temps than a reference blower.

Until proven otherwise, I dare say something like the DCII dissipates heat so well, even if it were run in the same case as your reference blower (no extra case fans) the rig would STILL be cooler and quieter overall simply due to the ridiculous amount of noise the blower makes.

 

[dragonstongue]

Tainted, agreed, this is simple understanding, yes more fans will equal more noise if A they are being constrained B are running at high cfm/pressure etc. Many non reference coolers are not very constrained so many make little noise and cool quite well at low noise levels until you hit ~70%+

In most cases, a reference cooler at say 60% for ALL the cards I have ever owned is definitely louder then all the non reference cards I have owned at even higher levels then this. Noise of course is subjective, air noise is not nearly as distracting as bad bearings, ticking sounds, fan ramping up and down constantly etc.

So compare a decent standard reference cooler to a decent standard dual fan non reference in vast majority of cases and sorry unknown but the results do not agree with what you state, simple as that. Yes some reviewers test in an open air case, but many do not, everyone's results will say slightly different, but again, in MOST cases, reference is louder does not cool as well, but does blow heat out of card AND is usually easier to direct airflow in the chassis.

 

[ep0x73]

I've had zero issues with the Gigabyte windforce 750ti, it's quiet as a mouse.
I looked at the ACX but after reading about issues, noise and the card was just too damn long I went with Gigabyte.
Glad I made that choice.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

750 Ti uses like 60W, you could strap a coke can to it with double-sided tape and it would work fine.

 

[Unknown-One]

Completely ignoring the fact that the blower cooler is nearly twice as loud as a decent open-air card.

You missed the point entirely.

Of course the card ALONE is louder under load (and only under load conditions, at idle the reference blower will tend to be quieter by default). The problem is, when you place a dual-fan cooler into a case, you now have more than just the card itself to worry about.

THAT's the point. The supporting airflow required by these dual-fan coolers means you're negating some (possibly even all) of their noise savings.

Until proven otherwise, I dare say something like the DCII dissipates heat so well, even if it were run in the same case as your reference blower (no extra case fans) the rig would STILL be cooler and quieter overall simply due to the ridiculous amount of noise the blower makes.

Using the same fan profile I used with my 780 with the reference blower cooler (where GPU temperature had zero impact on case-fan speed)?

Using the DCII would result in a guaranteed overheat. Convection alone is not enough to remove the heat it's dumping into the case. As soon as it begins recycling its own exhaust heat, the the game is lost.

i can just as easily state that the non-reference coolers on my gpu and cpu are so efficient that the extra heat in the case has absolutely no effect on temperatures whatsoever, regardless of the presence of case fans.

No, no you can't. The laws of thermodynamics make the scenario you're describing impossible.

Even a 100% efficient air cooler will not maintain a consistent temperature if the ambient temperature increases. You can ONLY cool to the point of thermal equilibrium with the environment, which means extra heat in the case MUST have an effect on the temperature.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

The supporting airflow required by these dual-fan coolers means you're negating some (or all) of their noise savings.

The issue comes down to whether or not you can combine an open-air cooler along with case fans and increased case temps and still achieve lower temps and lower noise, compared to a reference blower which runs louder but doesn't require the extra cooling.
The answer is, resoundingly, yes. Open-air cards are so much quieter you have plenty of headroom to add the extra cooling to potentially achieve EVEN BETTER cooling/noise results than the blower.

The fact that it's near impossible to buy blowers anymore, I think, proves you are wrong.
The 260, 260X, 270, 270X, 280, and 280X aren't even available in blowers. You can't even buy them.
The only Nvidia AIB that still makes blowers is EVGA apparently. I'd wager all of AMD's partners abandoned the ref Hawaii cooler (for obvious reasons).

I mean honestly, if blowers were better overall, then open-air cards wouldn't exist in the first place. All evidence indicates you're wrong. Unless you have something that proves you're even remotely correct then we have to assume the market (and common sense) is correct on this one.
I didn't realize this was still a debate in 2014. I'm still not sure we're being trolled or not. Am I dreaming? Is this really happening? I'm going to pinch myself and then refresh the thread.

edit: Nope, still here.

Using the DCII would result in a guaranteed overheat

I'm sorry, this is wrong. You can run an open-air card in a case with simply one exhaust fan and one CPU fan (the essentials).
Because... people do it. Frequently. I do it with my 280X. It's because I have a giant, heavy block of metal strapped to my 280X unlike your shitty ACX cooler which is actually worse than a blower.
For clarity, I'm pretty sure my card has higher power consumption than your 780.

I've never even heard of a blower overheating due to poor airflow. The only time it happens is with sandwiched SLi/CF setups.
I still don't even think airflow is an issue simply because I've never seen anyone complain about it.

It should occur to you eventually that your terrible GPU temperatures are a result of EVGA's failure to design an adequate cooler, not your ambient temps.
Please do not confuse the two.

I'm unsubbing from this thread. It's a huge waste of time at this point.

 

[Odellus]

You missed the point entirely.

Of course the card ALONE is louder under load (and only under load conditions, at idle the reference blower will tend to be quieter by default). The problem is, when you place a dual-fan cooler into a case, you now have more than just the card itself to worry about.

THAT's the point. The supporting airflow required by these dual-fan coolers means you're negating some (possibly even all) of their noise savings.

just as an example, the 780 Ti reference design cooler was measured at 39 dbA under load, while the MSI 780 Ti Gaming was measured at 30 dbA under load by tpu. for all intents and purposes, the reference design is twice as loud as the non-reference card under load (the non-reference was 3 dbA quieter at idle.) you're seriously trying to tell me a few case fans that are completely inaudible in a room with no ambient sound are going to essentially make the non-reference design card twice as loud? really? i think tainted is right; the acx cooler is a piece of shit, at least the one you have is.

 

[MorgothPl]

IN single card scenario, the partner cards would be better choice than blower design. However game changes in multi-card scenario. WIth small spaces between cards, the fans that can't expell air outside the case and cards quickly get noisy/hot. In that scenario things like 780 Ti blower beats the non-reference designs.

 

[magoo]

Other than the fact that reference GPUs are generally all stock clocks, the cooler problems can easily be overcome by watercooling.

I always watercool my CPU and GPUs.
Therefore the reference cooler is irrelevant to me.

That said, the reference coolers that came on my GTX 780s were pretty much unparalleled in quiet.

Also, GPU waterblocks are generally all designed for the reference PCB, thus I always buy them, whether just released or before the AIB partners release their re-designs.

Water will allow me dead silence and good overclocks.

and before someone says it......it costs an extra 90-100 dollars for the block, but I don't care about that.

 

[xoleras]

That said, the reference coolers that came on my GTX 780s were pretty much unparalleled in quiet.

Basically. Unparalleled. It's the best reference blower ever made, and it is quiet at stock settings.

I've had reference cards in the past which just pissed me off because they were noisy. The reference shroud on the 780 and Titan does not share that problem, it's a far cry (in a better way) than any other blower used on other cards. Whereas if you buy a reference 290X you may find yourself pissed off at the noise (and be forced to go with a custom design as a result, as MOST people do), the titan shrould would not have this issue of noise pissing you off. You can use the reference and perfectly happy if you're noise sensitive.

But if you want to overclock, sure, you can get a custom card and be happy with that. I'm not saying custom cards are not with merit, they do have merits. They're great for overclocking thanks to custom PCBs. I know that I would personally in the future always use blowers for SLI, it becomes a tougher question for a single card unless I were building a SFF. (reference is better for SFF, obviously). And, as in your case, if you want to water cool it doesn't even matter at all.

 

[Unknown-One]

The issue comes down to whether or not you can combine an open-air cooler along with case fans and increased case temps and still achieve lower temps and lower noise, compared to a reference blower which runs louder but doesn't require the extra cooling.
The answer is, resoundingly, yes. Open-air cards are so much quieter you have plenty of headroom to add the extra cooling to potentially achieve EVEN BETTER cooling/noise results than the blower.

The fact that it's near impossible to buy blowers anymore, I think, proves you are wrong.
The 260, 260X, 270, 270X, 280, and 280X aren't even available in blowers. You can't even buy them.

That doesn't prove anything except that AMD's reference blower is EXTREMELY poorly designed.

Nvidia did a proper job on their reference blower, which is available on the 770, 780, 780 Ti, Titan, and Titan Black.

The only Nvidia AIB that still makes blowers is EVGA apparently. I'd wager all of AMD's partners abandoned the ref Hawaii cooler (for obvious reasons).

Incorrect. All AIB's that have a Titan or Titan Black for sale are REQUIRED to still include the reference blower cooler by Nvidia.

I mean honestly, if blowers were better overall, then open-air cards wouldn't exist in the first place. All evidence indicates you're wrong.

What evidence, exactly? Nothing anyone has said has defeated the argument I outlined here:

Premises:
1. Dual-fan coolers exhaust all heat into the case, while the reference blower exhausts nearly all heat out of the case.
2. The result of the above is that one needs more case airflow with a dual-fan cooler than the reference cooler.
3. More case airflow means more fans and/or more fan-speed from your existing case fans.
4. More fans and/or faster fan speeds results in an increased level of noise.

Conclusion: Increased noise from case fans can cancel out some (possibly all) of the noise savings from using a dual-fan cooler.

Unless you have something that proves you're even remotely correct then we have to assume the market (and common sense) is correct on this one.

Re-read the above argument. Common sense says I have a totally valid point.

I'm sorry, this is wrong. You can run an open-air card in a case with simply one exhaust fan and one CPU fan (the essentials).
Because... people do it. Frequently. I do it with my 280X. It's because I have a giant, heavy block of metal strapped to my 280X unlike your shitty ACX cooler which is actually worse than a blower.
For clarity, I'm pretty sure my card has higher power consumption than your 780.

Nope, what I said was NOT wrong. If I use the fan profile that I used with my 780 while it's strapped to the reference blower, and try and swap to a DCII, the case will simply fill with hot air and EVERYTHING will start to overheat badly.

Dumping all the heat generated from a 250w card into a noise-insulated case that has its case fans at 0 RPM = bad.

I've never even heard of a blower overheating due to poor airflow. The only time it happens is with sandwiched SLi/CF setups.
I still don't even think airflow is an issue simply because I've never seen anyone complain about it.

EXACTLY my point, blowers don't have this issue because they don't blast hot-air into the case (so they can't suck on their own exhaust).

They don't need the extra airflow, therefor they don't need the extra NOISE that comes with extra airflow.

It should occur to you eventually that your terrible GPU temperatures are a result of EVGA's failure to design an adequate cooler, not your ambient temps.

Please do not confuse the two.

Already told you this has been a problem with EVERY dual-fan cooler design I've ever used, not just the ACX. I'm not confusing anything, you just didn't read...

 

[Unknown-One]

Other than the fact that reference GPUs are generally all stock clocks, the cooler problems can easily be overcome by watercooling.

Yeah, I'm trying that, but I'm running into some pretty severe issues with pump noise that's ruining noise levels at idle.

The performance at load is great, though. That's why I'm giving it one last try with a different AIO cooler.

 

[timmay]

It is well established in silent computing circles that most often 2 slow-moving fans are a better solution than 1 fast-moving fan.

The problem with the reference cooler is that one measly 80mm radial fan has to exhaust the GPU's heat by itself. It has to force air across the heatsink and out of half a PCI-slot-cover. Because of that, it has to spin up to well over 2000 rpm. At that speed, the frequency of the noise becomes unpleasant, as well as the air turbulence caused by the many obstacles in the air's path.

A good dual-fan cooler can usually keep its fans at just over 1000 rpm, especially if it accepts temps similarly high as the reference and design. The air gets dumped into the case, where a nice, big, slow-moving 120mm case fan can evacuate it.

nVidia is finally doing a good job of keeping idle noise down by realizing that at 15w power consumption, the fan has to barely spin at all. But once a gaming grade GPU starts to produce 200+ watts of heat, one fan is just not cutting it.

 

[xoleras]

^I disagree with you. The moving parts to a fan are not created equal, and the reference Titan/780 shroud IS quiet at 2000rpm compared to other fans at 2000rpm. I dare say you've never used the Titan or 780 shroud.

Believe me, I had my doubts about it as well. I've always had a disdain for the noise associated with reference blowers. But the lack of noise levels of the Titan shroud is pretty amazing IMHO. Remember, nvidia first designed it with the 690 and spared no expense in the creation of it. It uses expensive and high cost parts for the BOM, and the results show - it is, by far, BY FAR, the best and quietest reference shroud ever designed.

That's not to say custom cards don't have merits, but the reference Titan shroud is pretty fucking amazing if you ask me. And it is quiet at stock and 2000rpm. In fact, I remember PCPerspective did a comparison of the 290x at 2000rpm and the 780 reference shroud at 3500rpm. The 3500rpm 780 shroud was quieter (this is off the top off my head, but I remember this happening in an article). What this shows is that the quality of parts used in a fan make a BIG difference. And anyone who has used the Titan or 780 shroud can attest to it being that much better than any blower that proceded it.

Again, i'm not saying custom cards are worthless. I like them too. But if you want reference, you really can't beat NV's titan/780 design. It's really good.

 

[Parja]

So long story short...it depends.

 

[xoleras]

So long story short...it depends.

Gross over simplification:

Don't care about overclocking = reference
overclocking = either, depending (custom cards with custom PCB will OC better)
noise sensitive = either, depending (custom will be slightly quieter and better OC'ers)
Using SLI = reference (unless you have x79/x99 with 2+ slots between cards, and a shitload of case fans with a giant EATX case, or using a test bench)
SFF = reference
world record overclocking = custom

People have their preferences and picks but that's generally how I view it. This is assuming you have a card with the 780/Titan shroud. If you're getting a 290X card you really have no choice but to get custom, because the reference 290x blower is junk.