Arctic Silver 5 or Ceramique?

T

The_Law

Gawd
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Nov 6, 2005
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Quick question. Which is better, Arctic Silver 5 or Ceramique. I will be using it on a A64 3700+. I can't seem to find which one is better or what the difference is. Thanks in advance.
 
technically the as5 is better but a lot of people .. including myself prefer the ceramique.

less mess .. very close performance to as5 .. less conductive .. etc...
 
whichever you use .. it's not as good as direct metal contact so use a little as possible
 
malicious said:
whichever you use .. it's not as good as direct metal contact so use a little as possible
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So is it better to go without? Should I just put my HS directly on the chip w/o paste? If it is better without, what is the point of the paste? Sorry for all the newb questions, I am really getting into the nuts and bolts of things for the first time.
 
The_Law said:
So is it better to go without? Should I just put my HS directly on the chip w/o paste? If it is better without, what is the point of the paste? Sorry for all the newb questions, I am really getting into the nuts and bolts of things for the first time.
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no, you *definitely* need the paste. ideally, direct metal contact would be best, but the metals arent perfectly smooth, so there'd be gaps. that's what the paste is for; it fills in the gaps. that's why you want as thin a layer as possible, so it doesnt cover up where the metal could be going metal to metal, but it fills in all the tiny spaces where metal doesnt touch.
 
Soymilk said:
no, you *definitely* need the paste. ideally, direct metal contact would be best, but the metals arent perfectly smooth, so there'd be gaps. that's what the paste is for; it fills in the gaps. that's why you want as thin a layer as possible, so it doesnt cover up where the metal could be going metal to metal, but it fills in all the tiny spaces where metal doesnt touch.
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I second that, by all means DO NOT neglect to use conductive material, or bye-bye CPU.
 
If you are really brave, you could lap your Heatsink, remove the IHS, lap the CPU core and then use no thermal paste or at most a tiny tiny tiny drop. That would give you the lowest air cooling temp, but I dont recommend this.
 
Personally, I think it takes more than that. I think it takes a mental disorder.
 
even if you lap the core and HS there will still be gaps in the material, they may be microscopic but they are still there, so you will get better results with compound. But yur best bet would be direct die cooling if your going to go to this extreme.

Think about it you can't lap with something perfectly flat or it wont do anything, and anytime you use something with a grit or ruffness to it, it's not going to wear it down perfectly even. From my experience I don't bother lapping anything over 800 grit, usualy 600 grit works fine. it won't make much difference in temps.. I fact, some say compleatly polishing up the surface can make it transfer heat less because there is less surface area exposed and you still need to use thermal compond anyways.

From my experience don't use a bunch, but in most cases with good pressure on the core all the excess is squeezed out anyways.

I like ceramique because it does not conduct like AS can but thats cause I have a huge tube of it ;)
 
i say, if someone is this new to building a PC, i woulf highly suggest NOT recommending to lap your processor OR heatsink.


stick with just putting a very thin layer of thermal grease (i recommend Arctic Silver products) and apply with a straight edge razor. dont put your fingers in it either. take your time, research everything before you try it, and you'll be successful.
 
A thin layer of AS5 is the best way to go IMO...a novice/beginner shouldn't bother with any lapping...and IHS removal should only be attempted if someone can afford to eat the cost of a dead CPU...my first time removing an A64 IHS I nearly butchered the chip...second time was a sinch...but if you can't afford to replace the product, no hardmodding, IHS removal, or lapping should really be attempted in my opinion...hold off on it or get someone more experienced to do it.
 
I thought with the socket 939's u didnt have to speread it out, just put a small amount on the IHS?
 
i prefer using AS5 myself
why does everyone think AS5 eletrically conductive?

Not Electrically Conductive:
Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.
(While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)
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http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

besides this stuff goes on IHS, HSF and cores.... you aren't supposed to be sloping it all over the place... remember the "more is better" does not apply to thermal interface material
 
pstang said:
i prefer using AS5 myself
why does everyone think AS5 eletrically conductive?



http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

besides this stuff goes on IHS, HSF and cores.... you aren't supposed to be sloping it all over the place... remember the "more is better" does not apply to thermal interface material
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quoted for mega fucking truth
 
quoted for mega fucking truth
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Please watch your language...this is an all ages forum and I know for a fact that profanity isn't tolerated...check the forum rules.

I thought with the socket 939's u didnt have to speread it out, just put a small amount on the IHS?
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For many people that does work...I've only tried the "middle dab" method once...can't say it drastically hurt my temps...but using the rice grain sized portion that is mentioned isn't enough to cover the full surface area of a full sized IHS. i start with a small dab of that size, but spread it one way or another to create a paper thin layer over the total surface of the IHS...the dab method works very well for smaller surfaces...ie: AXP's that have no IHS.
 
cornelious0_0 said:
Please watch your language...this is an all ages forum and I know for a fact that profanity isn't tolerated...check the forum rules.
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(7) No CUSSING in the thread title. It is permitted in the thread body, but please refrain from using excessive profanity dammit.

Uh-oh, it's permitted!
 
ScHpAnKy said:
(7) No CUSSING in the thread title. It is permitted in the thread body, but please refrain from using excessive profanity dammit.

Uh-oh, it's permitted!
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Technically it is, but out of common sense and courtesy I'd still advise people use better judgement and simply say $#*&ing...more then likely we're still gonna know what he means. :p
 
cornelious0_0 said:
For many people that does work...I've only tried the "middle dab" method once...can't say it drastically hurt my temps...but using the rice grain sized portion that is mentioned isn't enough to cover the full surface area of a full sized IHS. i start with a small dab of that size, but spread it one way or another to create a paper thin layer over the total surface of the IHS...the dab method works very well for smaller surfaces...ie: AXP's that have no IHS.
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the middle dab method works because you really only need the compound covering the area where the actual core is. there shouldnt be a difference between the dab method and making a thin layer, provided that they're both done correctly, or if there is, it's insignificant (like 1C or some crap like that)
 
Soymilk said:
the middle dab method works because you really only need the compound covering the area where the actual core is. there shouldnt be a difference between the dab method and making a thin layer, provided that they're both done correctly, or if there is, it's insignificant (like 1C or some crap like that)
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I suppose you could look at it like that, the area directly over the core is going to be far hotter then the rest of the surface of the IHS...but the job of the IHS is to spread/distribute the heat from the CPU, and I still think it's better to make sure you've got a paper thin layer covering the whole IHS, because there IS heat from the CPU being spread across it, and the IHS itself is far from perfectly flat...I would still consider it worth it to cover the majority of it's surface.
 
I just got this non silicone HTC(High Thermal Conductivity) heat sink compound from AOS(its the same company that supplied Asetek/Vapochill and some generic stuff).
This product is pretty new since they just got a patent of it.

mvc861f7js.jpg


The specs..

It has over four times thermal conductivity of standard non-silicone heat sink compound....
@36C...17.4 BTU
Operating temp. range...-40C to 200C

If you see the compund AMD used on their A64 hsf..its about the same color and consistency.

Heres so far with 3500 Venice and FX's stock hsf...

screenshot0058ia.jpg
 
Soymilk said:
what were ur temps before using the new stuff? were u using as5?
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A before and after WOULD be greatly appreciated if you've got it cent, if not I know it'd be a pain to clean everything off and redo it just for that...but if you can... ;) :)
 
I like the fact that it comes in a little mini-bucket. :cool:

Aside from that, I'd like to give some a shot....as far as application, I have to disagree with Corn and say the dot in the center is king for an IHS (I've tried both and the dot always works better). Since it's not flat, the center is where the core is, and that's where most of the heat is coming from and that needs the best contact to the heatsink and thermal transfer. I personally don't think the IHS is to disperse heat, I think it's a idiot-proof cap for the processor to keep users from breaking stuff. Save the paper-thin layer for a de-IHS'd K8. ;)
 
AS5 for IHS.

Ceramique for non IHS, gpu cores etc.

Mark my words. If you get AS5 linking a couple of surface mounted components together weird stuff is going to happen. Maybe won't short out or cause inoperability but it will effect functionality.

my .02
 
2Fresh said:
i have used AS5 and Ceramique..cant tell a diff. Using Ceramique now.
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Nor could I...and I actually think that Ceramique is a LOT easier to spread/work with...so I'd vote in favor of the Ceramique.
 
<3 these threads... it really doesn't matter THAT much which you use. as a few have stated in this thread, they don't notice a difference and according to dan at dansdata there's no real noticeable difference. the article compares a pile of different tims, he even tried toothpaste and vegemite. nice read up on the way some people use graphs as well, i thought that was pretty funny.
 
Double Jesus said:
<3 these threads... it really doesn't matter THAT much which you use. as a few have stated in this thread, they don't notice a difference and according to dan at dansdata there's no real noticeable difference. the article compares a pile of different tims, he even tried toothpaste and vegemite. nice read up on the way some people use graphs as well, i thought that was pretty funny.
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It will make a big difference for extreme cooling @ <-50C..
@ near ambient temp. ...yes, there almost no difference.
 
centvalny said:
It will make a big difference for extreme cooling @ <-50C..
@ near ambient temp. ...yes, there almost no difference.
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Good point, not that most people will ever have the chance to experience <-50C cooling.
:rolleyes: :p
 
Well, I went with AS5. It doesn't seem like there would be much of a difference either way, but I figured I may as well go for what theoretically conduct heat better. So it has been ordered, but I likely won't get it for a week or so.

So my next question is can I run my computer without the paste for very short periods of time? I tore apart my old computer and am putting in a new mobo and then rebuilding with most of my old parts. This is my first "build" though, so I am eager to go at it and see how it goes. I obviously wouldn't be doing anything taxing at all. Really I just want to see if I can get everything together and get it to start up right and possibly install the OS. I have my laptop here to search for solutions to problems I am sure to run into.

So can I run it without paste for set up purposes, or am I going to fry my processor that way?
 
I never ran cpu without it, and it will take a fraction of a second more to transfer heat from cpu's ihs to heatsink. That fraction of a second can kill a cpu.
 
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