Aqua Computer Vs

[Demon_of_The_Fall]

Just because you're spreading somebody else's bullshit doesn't mean your're not spreading it. I'd hardly call the fact that you copied it from someone else an excuse.

 

[n00btard]

The only reason why you don't see much AC gear being reviewed in English websites is because AC doesn't care about the non-European demographic of water cooling enthusiasts and Sharka only recently got AC gear in stock. But if you wanna see a review on AC shwag, here you go:

http://www.gruntville.com/reviews/wc/aquatube/index.php

1)

Innovatek will more than likely screw you on a warranty because you're not in Germany/Europe. I get the feeling that they, much like Aqua Computer, do not care about the market outside of Europe. I'd just use whatever coolant you want - their warranty isn't worth it really and it's unlikely you'll break anything; just don't screw the fittings into any plastic parts to far (it doesn't take much to seal the thread).

That's a reason I really like Alphacool. They are more performance oriented (if that's your thing), but really care about the market outside of Europe.

Kinda makes sense, when so much more reviews are in Europe-based sites than English sites. AC's target market is obviously the European PC enthusiasts, since so many European sites are getting review samples while I managed to only scrounge up a single English review on the Aquatube. And look at what happened, my interpretation might be wrong, but it felt that the Aquatube got slammed for performing poorly with large bore tubing, since the stereotypical "bigger = better" American way of thinking (if whatever I say feels anti-American in any way, it's because I'm a cocky Canadian) seems to prevail in every aspects of North American marketing. So little wonder why AC would only ship review samples out to sites that embrace *cough* "alternative" forms of watercooling instead of being criticized for having small tube IDs. There's my $0.02, whether it's flawed logic or not.

 

[Erasmus354]

Kinda makes sense, when so much more reviews are in Europe-based sites than English sites. AC's target market is obviously the European PC enthusiasts, since so many European sites are getting review samples while I managed to only scrounge up a single English review on the Aquatube. And look at what happened, my interpretation might be wrong, but it felt that the Aquatube got slammed for performing poorly with large bore tubing, since the stereotypical "bigger = better" American way of thinking (if whatever I say feels anti-American in any way, it's because I'm a cocky Canadian) seems to prevail in every aspects of North American marketing. So little wonder why AC would only ship review samples out to sites that embrace *cough* "alternative" forms of watercooling instead of being criticized for having small tube IDs. There's my $0.02, whether it's flawed logic or not.

It is obvious that AC doesn't particularly care about getting reviews done in NA. However, the sites/people that will be reviewing them soon, and which we wanted to review earlier dont hold a bias towards tubing size. All they care about is how the thing performs, whether it is using small tubing or not. These testers use very accurate means of testing gear to get an accurate and not skewed picture of the true potential of cooling gear.

 

[Waterc00L101]

It is obvious that AC doesn't particularly care about getting reviews done in NA. However, the sites/people that will be reviewing them soon, and which we wanted to review earlier dont hold a bias towards tubing size. All they care about is how the thing performs, whether it is using small tubing or not. These testers use very accurate means of testing gear to get an accurate and not skewed picture of the true potential of cooling gear.

This will be a defining day and could cause some of the large bore f@nb0ys to be put on suicide watch.

I hope Lee's personal problems are behind him that prevented this review from happening earlier.

 

[Erasmus354]

This will be a defining day and could cause some of the large bore f@nb0ys to be put on suicide watch.

I hope Lee's personal problems are behind him that prevented this review from happening earlier.

I doubt that. I expect the review will simply confirm what I have always suspected about the XT. That it is a high flow block disguised as a low flow block. I expect it to have similar performance characteristics to the Nexxxos XP.

 

[Top Nurse]

This will be a defining day and could cause some of the large bore f@nb0ys to be put on suicide watch.

 

[Top Nurse]

It is obvious that AC doesn't particularly care about getting reviews done in NA. However, the sites/people that will be reviewing them soon, and which we wanted to review earlier dont hold a bias towards tubing size. All they care about is how the thing performs, whether it is using small tubing or not. These testers use very accurate means of testing gear to get an accurate and not skewed picture of the true potential of cooling gear.

Actually they care quite a bit as they sent an XT to be reviewed in the NA market 6 months ago, but Sharka decided that just the block getting reviewed was a waste of time. So they waited until they could afford to send a complete kit which AC wasn't willing to provide. Don't you think it would be silly on Sharka's part to send products for review that could have been easily sold for cash when there is a supply problem? And I thought you were up on biz practices...

Actually one of my main concerns about SystemCooling is their inabilty to measure less than 1/2 GPM. However since a complete kit was sent they will test it as a complete kit so that may not be an issue here.

 

[Bbq]

Can't wait until the review.

 

[Derrick70]

I doubt that. I expect the review will simply confirm what I have always suspected about the XT. That it is a high flow block disguised as a low flow block. I expect it to have similar performance characteristics to the Nexxxos XP.

have you ever taken an XT apart? you will find that it has the same base plate the cuplex pro has and lets not mention the jets that where added to the block to add more restriction.

now just reading what you have posted in the past and what im picking up now is that you dont like AC due to the price and the fact people use it in a 8mm hose set ups.

im running an ucapped 3800+x2 O/C to 2.6 my temps @ idle are 31.7c and at load running super PI it will jump to 33.2c and stay there.

the cooling loop has 1. 5 1/4 bayres 1. lil 1046 pump 1. black ice pro rad 120mm maby 2 foot of 3/8id 1/2od tubing.

 

[Top Nurse]

Can't wait until the review.

Glad to see the Bbq of Doom here.

 

[Demon_of_The_Fall]

the temps that your mobo reports dont mean crap tbh. Every board varies ridiculously. Thats why I'm waiting for definitive TTV results from maxx

 

[Derrick70]

the temps that your mobo reports dont mean crap tbh. Every board varies ridiculously. Thats why I'm waiting for definitive TTV results from maxx

if i where taking my temps from the bios or any windows related program its self i would agree with you

 

[Erasmus354]

have you ever taken an XT apart? you will find that it has the same base plate the cuplex pro has and lets not mention the jets that where added to the block to add more restriction.

What does that have to do with anything? I wasn't talking about whether the block is restrictive or not, I was talking about whether it should be classified as low flow or high flow. I think I explained my reasoning sufficiently clear and in depth so that anyone not wearing rose colored glasses could see what I was trying to get at.


@TN : Yes AC did send a block 6 months ago for review. However, If I were a company that sent a product to one of my distributors for review, and that distributor subsequently refused to send the product.....well I would be a little upset if I actually cared about getting my product reviewed. The concept of "I'm not going to send it because I dont trust you to not sell it instead of doing the review" is a little...well paranoid. I have no qualms about letting Maxxxracer borrow my XT for testing. Sharka could very easily have worked out terms with SystemCooling before hand that the block had to be returned after the review was conducted. If they renegged and sold the block Sharka would have grounds for a legal case against them. The argument as to why the block was never sent when it was supposed to just doesn't hold water.

 

[Demon_of_The_Fall]

if i where taking my temps from the bios or any windows related program its self i would agree with you

Temp Sensor attached to the core somehow then ?

 

[Top Nurse]

What does that have to do with anything? I wasn't talking about whether the block is restrictive or not, I was talking about whether it should be classified as low flow or high flow. I think I explained my reasoning sufficiently clear and in depth so that anyone not wearing rose colored glasses could see what I was trying to get at.

Semantics are a lawyers weapons. However, why can't you understand that the Cuplex XT was designed to run well in a low flow environment, BUT also able to run well with the big boys (and gals). Cathar said exactly the same thing about the G4/5 except in reverse as that was the market he wanted to emphasize on.

@TN : Yes AC did send a block 6 months ago for review. However, If I were a company that sent a product to one of my distributors for review, and that distributor subsequently refused to send the product.....well I would be a little upset if I actually cared about getting my product reviewed. The concept of "I'm not going to send it because I dont trust you to not sell it instead of doing the review" is a little...well paranoid. I have no qualms about letting Maxxxracer borrow my XT for testing. Sharka could very easily have worked out terms with SystemCooling before hand that the block had to be returned after the review was conducted. If they renegged and sold the block Sharka would have grounds for a legal case against them. The argument as to why the block was never sent when it was supposed to just doesn't hold water.

Obviously you don't have a clue about the underpinnings of the computer review business after having made such a silly statement like that. So why don't you educate yourself before posting here about stuff that you don't know about. BTW, the reason AC didn't want to send the other stuff being reviewed is because it is old product line-up to them and sells well all by it's self.

 

[Derrick70]

Temp Sensor attached to the core somehow then ?

the prosessor is un capped and there is a temp sensor right next to the core i cant get it on the center of the core because of the w/b. i also have a temp sensor in the water loop but it reads 2c cooler

 

[Erasmus354]

Semantics are a lawyers weapons. However, why can't you understand that the Cuplex XT was designed to run well in a low flow environment, BUT also able to run well with the big boys (and gals). Cathar said exactly the same thing about the G4/5 except in reverse as that was the market he wanted to emphasize on.

I never said it wouldn't perform well at low flow


I wish you people would actually read my posts. I said I expect it to perform about equal to the Nexxxos XP, which performs marginally worse than the Little River G4. I went on to clarify for those that dont know what I am talking about, that the block will (I am guessing by the design) benefit greatly from higher flow.

 

[Erasmus354]

Obviously you don't have a clue about the underpinnings of the computer review business after having made such a silly statement like that. So why don't you educate yourself before posting here about stuff that you don't know about. BTW, the reason AC didn't want to send the other stuff being reviewed is because it is old product line-up to them and sells well all by it's self.

Blah Blah, same old, same old. Rather than needlessly flaming someone, how about you educate me (and the rest of us) on the dark, mysterious, and dangerous underbelly of the computer reviewing business. You keep using the argument "The stuff sells so why get a review?" I seem to remember multitudes of reviews on the 7800GTX512, yet that is even more expensive, and more elusive than any AC gear. By your logic, nVidia should have never sent any products for review and simply sold them instead.

 

[theseeker]

I believe she is referring to the law of supply and demand. Any product that sells without advertising simply doesnt warrant advertising in any form, Ferrari is a good example. They do not advertise and demand consistently outstrips supply. BTW, there are other "super-cars" that outperform for less money, but they have a "cult" following just like AC.
I know, Ferrari autos are constantly tested. The reason they are is because that sells magazines not cars.
I am looking quite forward to the upcoming review, however I doubt the outcome will influence the AC people, myself included.
Fortunately we live in a country where we can all express our views and debate them as well.

 

[Top Nurse]

Blah Blah, same old, same old. Rather than needlessly flaming someone, how about you educate me (and the rest of us) on the dark, mysterious, and dangerous underbelly of the computer reviewing business.

Review companies are usually small operations that basically do it for fun, but at some point they have to nake money off it or shut the doors (or website). So in order for them to exist they must sell advertising space on their sites or come up with some other way to make the money. Advertisers are not willing to spend much for banner ads unless you can prove hits to your site from people they want to sell to. How do you increase your hit rate from the people you want? Simple...you do computer hardware reviews on the same kind of things your advertisers want to sell. Unfortunately this even doesn't pay for the operation unless you are a [H]ardOCP, AnnandTech, or THG type operation. So the way they pay their way is by advertising and reselling the hardware that they get to review. Obviously you might see a hitch here, yes? In order to do the review you have to be willing to write favorable articles that will sell product right? So then where is the objectivity?

 

[Bio-Hazard]

Not totally true, parts that are reviewed belong to the reviewer, not the web site or the site owner. So if the parts are sold, the cash goes into the reviewers pocket, the the web sites, (unless the reviewer and owner are one and the same).............
On the point of only favorable articles, 2 of my last 3 were un-favorable and we didn't get any negitive feed back from the part supplier. But every site is different as are people, so you never know for sure.

 

[Erasmus354]

In order to do the review you have to be willing to write favorable articles that will sell product right? So then where is the objectivity?

I dont see how that relates to Sharka refusing to ship the waterblock 6 months ago....

Also I doubt that Lee is ever expecting to make much of a profit on his test rig. I also fail to see how it takes out the possibility of Sharka lending the block to Lee. Lee was perfectly willing to to borrow the block from me for testing, and then sending it back when he was done. Of course the only way to find this out would be to ask.....

Sometimes people do this type of thing because they enjoy it *gasp*. Maxxxracer is spending hundreds of dollars on his testing rig for no reason other than to test waterblocks.


I understand that many review sites sell the hardware they review. Partly because the companies that send it to them dont really care about getting it back. I also however bet that the majority of reviewers out there would be perfectly willing to do a review and send the product back, especially on something that would amount to an exclusive review.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

It's very rare that a company asks for review items back, although it does happen from time to time. Normally this happens with stuff like reff video cards, MoBo and the like. Samsung normally wants it's LCD's sent back also, as do a few others. But as I said before, if you review it, you keep it is the standard rule.

 

[Erasmus354]

It's very rare that a company asks for review items back, although it does happen from time to time. Normally this happens with stuff like reff video cards, MoBo and the like. Samsung normally wants it's LCD's sent back also, as do a few others. But as I said before, if you review it, you keep it is the standard rule.

It may be the standard rule, my point is however you shouldn't cite that as an excuse for delaying shipment of an item slated for review by 6 months. There are other options at your disposal.

I bet if ATi were to not send a single review sample of its X1900 cards and simply use all of them for resale, and then 6 months from now say "Hey we'll send you this X1900, RD580 Crossfire board, Theater550 Pro, and ATi Sticker for review...but you need to review it as an entire system." You would never hear the end of it, from ATi and Nvidia fans alike.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

I agree 100%, Review parts suppliers have no business trying to set the rules, all parts are to be reviewed to the same standard of the site in question. But there are those out there that try. I know in my case, if it's even thought about, I turn the part down. But I'm not running a site either, I just fill in doing reviews for a few sites these days. .............

 

[n00btard]

It's very rare that a company asks for review items back, although it does happen from time to time. Normally this happens with stuff like reff video cards, MoBo and the like. Samsung normally wants it's LCD's sent back also, as do a few others. But as I said before, if you review it, you keep it is the standard rule.

maybe I should start up a review site then...

 

[Top Nurse]

I beta tested an astronomical controller for an expensive telescope mount and got to keep the Gemini hardware as payment. My testing resulted in a new modification of this system for sale to a new market. So I have first hand experience in reviewing / beta testing products. I also have done beta testing for other companies as well and I always get to keep what I test and report on.

As for the objectivity issue it is simply a matter of pointing out more plusses than minuses while trying to keep some integrity in the whole operation. I thought SystemCooling did a pretty good job on that seesaw with Swiftech's Apogee review.

 

[Top Nurse]

I never said it wouldn't perform well at low flow


I wish you people would actually read my posts. I said I expect it to perform about equal to the Nexxxos XP, which performs marginally worse than the Little River G4. I went on to clarify for those that dont know what I am talking about, that the block will (I am guessing by the design) benefit greatly from higher flow.

I didn't say that. What you did say is this:

...I expect the review will simply confirm what I have always suspected about the XT. That it is a high flow block disguised as a low flow block. I expect it to have similar performance characteristics to the Nexxxos XP.

Please don't try and slither out of what you said. You called it "...a high flow block disguised as a low flow block" did you not?

 

[Top Nurse]

maybe I should start up a review site then...

Why not as every Tom, Dick, and Bio-Hazard are doing it.

 

[Top Nurse]

I dont see how that relates to Sharka refusing to ship the waterblock 6 months ago....

It doesn't and I was beating Sharka up recently in this same forum about it just a short while ago.

 

[Bbq]

Why not as every Tom, Dick, and Bio-Hazard are doing it.

Been there, done that. (I staff on 4 sites )

 

[Erasmus354]

Please don't try and slither out of what you said. You called it "...a high flow block disguised as a low flow block" did you not?

I'm not slithering out of anything. I stand by my statement that it is a highflow block disguised as a low flow block. Considering I qualified that with an explanation of what I consider to qualify blocks as high flow or low flow (whether there is a marked improvement with increased flow or not).

I also made a point of comparing the Cuplex XT to the Nexxxos XP, a block of a very similar design (micro-pins and jets). Here is a little snippet of the Procooling Nexxxos XP review:

Conventional wisdom is that this doesn't matter because the Alphacool (and other European waterblocks for that matter) are "designed for low flow". If one looks at the above graph, these comments don't seem to be valid. One can see that the performance curve of the NexXxoS XP is similar to the Cascade and Storm G4 and that progressing from a flow rate of 0.5GPM to 1.4GPM yields about 3C of additional cooling. Compare that with the Swiftech MCW6000; which benefits around 1C for the same flow rate increase. In fact the relatively thin baseplate and accelerator nozzle make the NexXxoS block perform extremely well at higher flow rates, but it is not especially well-suited to flow rates below 0.5-0.75 GPM.

However, one can see that contrary to conventional wisdom the Alphacool is NOT OPTIMIZED for loops with low flow rates (such as the Eheim 1046 can provide). In such a loop the Swiftech MCW6000-A would actually be a better choice. As flow rates increase with larger pumps, however, the NexXxoS XP becomes extremely competitive.

It is getting extremely tiring to have to explain and justify over and over and over again anything I say down to a T just because you AC refuse to accept that I am not out to get AC, merely state an opinion. (Which I am supposedly not allowed to have without getting flamed for it )

 

[Top Nurse]

I'm not slithering out of anything. I stand by my statement that it is a highflow block disguised as a low flow block.

It is getting extremely tiring to have to explain and justify over and over and over again anything I say down to a T just because you AC refuse to accept that I am not out to get AC, merely state an opinion. (Which I am supposedly not allowed to have without getting flamed for it )

Are you perchance a shark (lawyer)? It is a block that was designed to run in a typical low flow environment that is common in Germany. It also will run at high flows as well, which makes it as versatile as the G4/5 block which claims similar capability. So if anything it is a low flow block...

You wouldn't get slammed so much if you used a better choice of words. Those of us that have been around the block a few times see exactly the way you slant your words in such a manner to mean what you want to say. No biggie, but don't try to claim that you aren't doing it.

 

[Erasmus354]

Are you perchance a shark (lawyer)? It is a block that was designed to run in a typical low flow environment that is common in Germany. It also will run at high flows as well, which makes it as versatile as the G4/5 block which claims similar capability. So if anything it is a low flow block...

You wouldn't get slammed so much if you used a better choice of words. Those of us that have been around the block a few times see exactly the way you slant your words in such a manner to mean what you want to say. No biggie, but don't try to claim that you aren't doing it.

We'll let the numbers do the talking, when they come out similar to the Nexxxos XP I expect you to eat your shoe...

 

[madmat]

We'll let the numbers do the talking, when they come out similar to the Nexxxos XP I expect you to eat your shoe...

Don't hold your breath waiting, you and I both know that no matter what happens TN will spin things to make you, I or anyone else that doesn't agree with her viewpoint look like they're the ones that were making misinformed posts.

Makes me wonder if she should've been the one studying for the bar...

 

[Top Nurse]

Don't hold your breath waiting, you and I both know that no matter what happens TN will spin things to make you, I or anyone else that doesn't agree with her viewpoint look like they're the ones that were making misinformed posts.

Makes me wonder if she should've been the one studying for the bar...

Perhaps I really should think about a career as a Legal Nurse Consultant.

 

[Waterc00L101]

We'll let the numbers do the talking, when they come out similar to the Nexxxos XP I expect you to eat your shoe...

Then maybe you should stop complaining until the review happens?

Better yet, stop slamming Sharka for not shipping only a block long ago when you had one and didn't bother to send it. I blame YOU for no review to date Or you could always open your own etail and front ten of thousands of dollars in stock to provide everyone with things how fast you think they should happen........

/still find it funny the biggest apponent of AC owns their products.

 

[Erasmus354]

Then maybe you should stop complaining until the review happens?

Better yet, stop slamming Sharka for not shipping only a block long ago when you had one and didn't bother to send it. I blame YOU for no review to date

/still find it funny the biggest apponent of AC owns their products.

I only recently acquired the block, and I acquired it for the sole purpose of putting an end to the misinformation, and getting some real testing out there. So excuse me for trying to put my money (what little of it there is) where my mouth is. I already explained why I never sent my block to Lee (because he declined because Sharka was sending him one, and then led him on for a month).

What is this "only sending a block" nonsense? That is all most companies send for review...and all *most* water cooling enthusiasts really care about. Why should AquaComputer care if only their block is tested...unless they dont believe it can stand up on its own merits and needs all the fancy bells and whistles to distract you from the actual data? (That was a hypothetical question, please for the love of god AC fanatics dont misinterpret what I said....though I expect you will anyways)

 

[Scroatdog]

Perhaps I really should think about a career as a Legal Nurse Consultant.

Too much talk. Not enough Feeding Frenzy updates. BACK TO WORK!!!

 

[Waterc00L101]

What is this "only sending a block" nonsense? That is all most companies send for review...and all *most* water cooling enthusiasts really care about. Why should AquaComputer care if only their block is tested...unless they dont believe it can stand up on its own merits and needs all the fancy bells and whistles to distract you from the actual data? (That was a hypothetical question, please for the love of god AC fanatics dont misinterpret what I said....though I expect you will anyways)

How do you expect to see the performance of a block designed to run 6 or 8mm tubing when the review site hooks up a 1/2" garden hose? What will this tell a consumer who purchases the block with plug n cool connectors that have a max ID of 8mm?

This is maybe why the block came with a radiator, pump, connectors, tubing?

btw: most "enthusiasts" care about how much the block will allow them to overclock. Too bad threads in this forum show there was no gain or loss......