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Aqua Computer turboplex USB - departure into a new era?
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One word, reliability.
You really think having something vibrate on top of a CPU costing $100's is really a good idea, how many people would actually risk it? Yet another useless product from aquacomputer, I mean how much c**p are you guys going to come up with. Iam sorry but I fail to see what you guys are trying to achieve with this, patent... for what... a pump stuck to a piece of copper/aluminium... no thanks.
You really think having something vibrate on top of a CPU costing $100's is really a good idea, how many people would actually risk it? Yet another useless product from aquacomputer, I mean how much c**p are you guys going to come up with. Iam sorry but I fail to see what you guys are trying to achieve with this, patent... for what... a pump stuck to a piece of copper/aluminium... no thanks.
Erasmus354
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In general the pump is the least of your worries when your trying for quiet operation. Any of the decent pumps now-a-days are all very quiet. The Eheims, the DDC, even the D5 will likely not be the loudest thing in your system.
You still have lots of other noise producing components, chipset fan, harddrives, disc drives, radiator fans. Controlling the noise from these components is more important towards achieving quiet operation than it is to further quiet the noise from an already quiet pump.
Of course watercooling can be a solution to lots of these problems. You can watercool the chipset, you can watercool the harddrives, you can watercool the graphics card. However, once you start watercooling all these components you might as well have a standalone pump in the system rather than the turboplex contraption.
I see the market for something like the turboplex as people who want a simple solution for watercooling just their cpu. Of course if you are just watercooling the CPU your not eliminating the noise from the other components, and therefore the pump doesn't need to be silent.
That is my reasoning.
You still have lots of other noise producing components, chipset fan, harddrives, disc drives, radiator fans. Controlling the noise from these components is more important towards achieving quiet operation than it is to further quiet the noise from an already quiet pump.
Of course watercooling can be a solution to lots of these problems. You can watercool the chipset, you can watercool the harddrives, you can watercool the graphics card. However, once you start watercooling all these components you might as well have a standalone pump in the system rather than the turboplex contraption.
I see the market for something like the turboplex as people who want a simple solution for watercooling just their cpu. Of course if you are just watercooling the CPU your not eliminating the noise from the other components, and therefore the pump doesn't need to be silent.
That is my reasoning.
kleox64 said:
get a life.
the noise doesnt bother me so much as the fact that aquacomputer continues to use aluminum in conjunction with copper. what is it going to take to get AC to switch to delrin or something? dont get me wrong, i love my ac setup, but using aluminum on watercooling components is so 10 years ago.
thewhiteguy
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Wow and I thought I was mean to the Aquacomputer lemmings around herekleox64 said:
Arcygenical
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Personally, I think it's a pretty good idea... If the thing was entirely copper, not too expensive, and actually worked... then I know a couple of friends that would consider buying it. A full WC setup is just too much hassle for them, so this could be perfect. Add a small BIP rad and this thing and you're good to go... IMO. I'm just concerned with the aluminum/copper design... doesn't that just scream corrosion and battery effect?
I don't think the Op's statement of "performance over noise" here in North America is all that correct... I mean, sure a bit more noise is acceptable for a huge increase in performance, but from what I gather, most people around here WC for the silence! As to what level of audibility is acceptable? Well, for me it's 2 7v aluminum fans... Pretty quiet.
I wouldn't worry about vibration all that much... Look at those heavy duty springs! They seem to be doing a great job keeping the block secure. I have a D5 that, on setting 4/5 doesn't vibrate at all... I dont even have it mounted in my case with screws (yay zipties). In fact, the stock fan on my HSF vibrated more than this pump.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an AC fan, their stuff is very industrial looking (awesome) but the performance/price ratio is just too low for a Canadian like myself.
I don't think the Op's statement of "performance over noise" here in North America is all that correct... I mean, sure a bit more noise is acceptable for a huge increase in performance, but from what I gather, most people around here WC for the silence! As to what level of audibility is acceptable? Well, for me it's 2 7v aluminum fans... Pretty quiet.
I wouldn't worry about vibration all that much... Look at those heavy duty springs! They seem to be doing a great job keeping the block secure. I have a D5 that, on setting 4/5 doesn't vibrate at all... I dont even have it mounted in my case with screws (yay zipties). In fact, the stock fan on my HSF vibrated more than this pump.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an AC fan, their stuff is very industrial looking (awesome) but the performance/price ratio is just too low for a Canadian like myself.
madmat
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The pump shouldn't create any more vibration than a fan will if properly built. I'm with BioPort on not liking the alloy unless it's strictly there for looks.
Arcygenical said:
just to throw a couple cents in here, for me, even at 7v, thats still too much noise. to me a quiet computer needs to sound like a powerbook, no fan noise at all. for that i run at about 6v on known quiet fans, and i think there are quite a few AC setups that do that too. as far as i understand it, it was the impetus for some of the functions in the aquasuite software. anyhoo....
as for OP question, the tolerance for me on an item like that would be a low low hum. if you have minimal hummage, or a soft WHIR, then it would be acceptable, given that the fan on the rad may balance it out. if you goin passive on the rad then the block can be no louder than a regular HDD
kleox64 said:
kleox64 said:
thewhiteguy said:Wow and I thought I was mean to the Aquacomputer lemmings around here
I see all the AquaTrolls are out in force today.
I wish I had this patent as it probably will make them millions and then AC can buy up Swiftech and others to give them a decent burial.
Cheap plastic? What plastic are you referring to? Do you even know what grade of plastics they use? Engage the brain before opening the mouth...
You all seem to have missed the key point here: "The cooling capacity beats all available waterblocks with a passive design." And imagine that all being done with a low flow system.
Well back on topic. Let's see we have a USB connector to hook it up to a MB header and the option to use part of the Aquabus as well so this appears definitely slated for Aquasuite use. I also see a RPM header for connection to a MB, Aquaero, or Multiswitch header. And you get a fan header to boot.
As far a noise goes it depends on the frequency as higher pitches are more disconcerting. How about a noise recording comparing it to a Pabst 120mm low volted fan?
BTW, I will take three right now if you make it in some other color than blue. Black or silver would be nice.
Arcygenical
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Can anyone (points to Top Nurse
) Explain this point a little further? If I'm reading this correctly... The pump swishes water against the bottom of the block to take away heat from the coldplate (and cpu)... How is this any different than a jet of water rushing past the channels/pins/markings on a Danger Den Waterblock?thewhiteguy
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It damn well better perform better. You've got an impeller spinning water around right against the copper base. There's no way to beat that without some serious pressure in a traditional block.Top Nurse said:You all seem to have missed the key point here: "The cooling capacity beats all available waterblocks with a passive design." And imagine that all being done with a low flow system.
thewhiteguy
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More like compulsive spending.theseeker said:
topcat989
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Top Nurse said:I see all the AquaTrolls are out in force today.
no kidding. kinda pathetic, really, that they have such a compusive need to trash something they don't agree with. Their opinions are alreadu well known, but the mark of a true insecure attention whore is the constant need to keep shouting that already well known opinion.
BTW, i think that the makers of the mag csp pumps have something similer coming out, let me pull up a link.........here
Hmmm... So If I am hearing this right, it's a pump built into a waterblock?
Neat.
I also agree that the aquatrolls are in full force. More fun with the ignore button. i'm sure most of you haven't even seen any aqua computer stuff. Instead of speaking out of your ass, how about speaking from experience?
Neat.
I also agree that the aquatrolls are in full force. More fun with the ignore button. i'm sure most of you haven't even seen any aqua computer stuff. Instead of speaking out of your ass, how about speaking from experience?
Erasmus354
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topcat989 said:thing is, i don't really see it that way. I think high flow systems are great, and all the power to those who use them. It's just that trashing people the products they use becuase it doesn't fit your philisophy of what WC should, is just plain fucking retarded.
as the AC trolls prove themselves to be, time and again. Disaggreing about a particular product effecientcy with constructive critisism is one thing, calling people who use it "compulsive spenders" and dissallusioned and all the other names use, is, as said befor, kinda pointless waste of time.
edit: yes i know my spelling's atrocious today
QFT
Trashing people or companies (TN, eventhough I know your comments are all in jest they are not needed) because you dont agree with how they run their business or the type of products they make is unacceptable. I would like to point out that there has only been ONE person trolling the thread...so all the AC Fans whining...well half the thread was you guys complaining about one person and categorizing an entire group by that person.
As for the performance claims, well they are just that claims. Until I see some real, scientific testing I am going to reserve judgement. I dont trust Swiftech's performance numbers (anymore) and I wont trust the completely unbacked up performance claims of any other company.
I am curious if the Coolermaster and Intel designs actually infringe upon the AC patent. The way I see it, you shouldn't be able to hold a patent for sticking a pump on top of a waterblock. That would be like someone claiming to hold the patent for having a fan on top of a heatsink. However, from the sounds of the design AC could hold the patent on having the pump swish the water around the base plate of the block directly. If the Coolermaster and Intel designs are simply a traditional waterblock, with the pump contained on top of it, then I dont see a case for copyright infringement. Then again, I am not a lawyer so I dont know how far their patent extends.
Strangely enough, when you browse most H2O cooling sites, you find claims, charts, graphs and so on. However, when you go to AC's site you dont see claims or charts, graphs or anything remotely resembling product performance. Kind of makes you wonder.
Looks like a cool product, seems like a good design for HTPC's or SFF's.. Would the pump be able to also support a GPU block? I haven't heard how loud pumps are, but for fans, anything over 20DB is loud, but I guess I'm really sensitive, as a lot of stuff that bothers me, doesn't bother my friends...
That's kind of cool. You could have a 1x120 rad mounted on your rear 120mm fan hole, throw in a t-line and have a quite small setup, maybe even using well under two feet of hose, so long as you are quick pouring into the t-line when filling. Heck, attach a 120mm rad on top of it with some sort of filling port and you would have a self contained watercooling solution that isn't any bigger than some of the big air coolers.
Erasmus354
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Zamt said:
Now thats a neat idea, create some sort of bracket so that the radiator attaches directly above the block. This way you not only have a small package with nice cooling potential. But you are also getting airflow directly at the components around the CPU socket that you would get with a normal high end air cooling solution.
Aviddigi tamsco
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Fianlly less talk and more pics of this thing, but alas bad idea. Just not my kind of sexy sleek looking AC blocks i had come to love. TN will have one in silver that lights cigars and has a removable surgical room.
DFI Daishi
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not likely. US courts don't have much respect for patents filed in other nations, by companies based in other nations. see the case of RIM vs. NTP.Top Nurse said:Sounds to me like AC is going to be cleaning up in the patent infringement business.
DFI Daishi
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i'm not going to deal with the back and forth at the moment.......
the figures that i would like to know, with regards to this block/pump, are:
- noise level as measured 30cm from the top of the pump housing, with coolant flowing through about 2m of tubing and a rad suited for 2x120mm fans, in a sound proof room
- a full flow vs head curve
- the thermal resistance of the solution assuming a constant coolant temp of 25 C
if it can do better than about 0.05 C/W thermal resistance (CPU to coolant) at as good or better than 24 dba, i think you could very well have a winner.
the figures that i would like to know, with regards to this block/pump, are:
- noise level as measured 30cm from the top of the pump housing, with coolant flowing through about 2m of tubing and a rad suited for 2x120mm fans, in a sound proof room
- a full flow vs head curve
- the thermal resistance of the solution assuming a constant coolant temp of 25 C
if it can do better than about 0.05 C/W thermal resistance (CPU to coolant) at as good or better than 24 dba, i think you could very well have a winner.
DFI Daishi
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i'm reading $612.5 million but whatever..........i'm biased, but i'm seening a canadian company getting hosed by US circuit courts in a case related to patents filed first, by a canadian company. (no, i don't work for RIM, but they are right next door and contribute a LOT of money to the university)R1ckCa1n said:
I have a couple questions...
1. What is the baseplate design of the block like?
2. What is the flow, pressure, and power consumption of the pump?
3. How is the flow chamber designed (how does the water flow internally)?
Without knowing the answer to these three questions, none of us can make a single judgement or statement about it's performance, for or lack there-of.
1. What is the baseplate design of the block like?
2. What is the flow, pressure, and power consumption of the pump?
3. How is the flow chamber designed (how does the water flow internally)?
Without knowing the answer to these three questions, none of us can make a single judgement or statement about it's performance, for or lack there-of.
EnJoY120 said:
Did you download the patent application? Even though it is in German it does have a few pics. Since it is made by Aqua Computer we can safely assume it is made well, exhibits sound engineering principles, and will probably cost an arm and a leg.
They also don't exaggerate claims about performance so it is also a safe bet that it does exactly what they have said it will do. Namely blow the socks off the competition. From perusing their patent application it appears they patented the main design of integrating an Alternating Current pump directly into the waterblock. They also show several variations on their design. One appears to be a motor similar to the Aquastream where the impeller floats in the center with the stator coils built into the surrounding block. The other option appears to use the fan blades instead as part of the rotor.
The real question is can they deliver the product in a reasonable time frame. Considering that they had this on the back burner for three (3) years doesn't bode well IMHO. I think we are only seeing this today because Intel and others are floating their trial balloons as well. On the positive side it would mate well with their present electronic high tech components seeing as it has an Aquabus and USB capability to interface with the Aquasuite control software.
As far a patent enforceability goes AC definitely has the upper hand in a very large market called the EU as their courts have consistently upheld their member country patents so long as all the T's are crossed and the I's dotted. I suspect that US Courts would also see a German patent as being bonafide in order to preserve an important trading partner.
Bbq said:
Yes that about sums it up. The impeller is directly forcing water against the waterblock creating tremendous flow and turbulence. I can't wait to see the pin array used.
The reason they speak out of their ass is because they sound better.
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