Apple to release first ARM Mac without Intel processor in next 18 months

erek

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Excited for the ARM Mac?

"5nm process chip shipments are expected to be taken by Apple in mid-2020. In addition to Apple using the 5nm custom chips for its first ARM Mac in 2021, Kuo says that the flagship 2020 iPhone lineup as well as new mini-LED iPad expect in late 2020 to early 2021 will feature the new 5nm process chips.

The change from Intel processors in Macs to custom-designed ARM ones will be a major shift for Apple that will allow it to have more flexibility with Mac hardware updates as well as fine-tuning hardware and software efficiency for the best experience.

Notably, there will be work ahead for developers as the shift happens to make sure macOS software support is in place for the new wave of ARM Macs.

Developer Steve Troughton-Smith shared that if Kuo’s prediction is correct, this would be the last WWDC before ARM Macs launch and that Apple should be looking to roll out a Developer Transition Kit soon but there’s no guarantee…"


https://9to5mac.com/2020/02/24/appl...tel-processor-in-next-18-months-predicts-kuo/
 

defaultluser

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We knew this was POTENTALLY coming after the merging of ios and Mac OS apps development was announced. But it could happen next year, or it could happen ten years from now. All we know is that it won;t happen until Project Marzipan is finished (2021 launch date)

Charlie said it was going to happen back in 2011, and I think we can all agree how wrong he was. If there's any truth to this story happening in 18 months,. it's just as likely for Apple to use the threat of going ARM to negotiate better deals with Intel.
 
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aokman

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It is going to happen, it is a matter of when not if.

Apples silicon is very advanced and by unifying OSX and iOS with METAL, simplifying porting. Not to mention iOS is getting desktop class apps now, 90% of the work is already done with app support.
 

DeChache

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I'm guessing they will test the waters with the Air and Macbook(Do they still make a non-pro Macbook?)
 

Auer

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A mac mini with ARM and a "decent" GPU would have my attention.
SFF image editor with some low/mid gaming thrown in.
 

pendragon1

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"predicts Kuo "
but it kinda makes sense for the airs and pads. im still waiting to see if they end up jamming ryzen into anything...
 

Lakados

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A mac mini with ARM and a "decent" GPU would have my attention.
SFF image editor with some low/mid gaming thrown in.
Adobe is already on-board and ready to go with their lineup same with MSOffice. Apples apps are what the core of the users are using and the rest is likely a website.
 
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pendragon1

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Are these ARM units really fast enough to be taken seriously?
probably. they are still shipping 1.6GHz dual cores in the airs. ipad pros have "ARM-based" A10 chips, whatever that means. but everything i can find online about apples new arm chip is just rumor, predictions and speculation. this current round started in 2017...
 

Lakados

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Are these ARM units really fast enough to be taken seriously?
The A12x could probably go toe to toe with the upper end Intel i3’s in all ways that matter probably pass it in some.

edit...
Checking for more info because I am curious because my dad asked me this a few days ago but some review sites have it scoring Very close to an i7 8750H, which I find unbelievable... so I am trying to find more about what their benchmarks consist of.

this site basically says the same and lists the tests they ran...
https://www.notebookcheck.net/8750H-vs-A12X-Bionic-vs-8850H_9576_10881_9578.247596.0.html
 
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aokman

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Are these ARM units really fast enough to be taken seriously?
Easily fast enough, the A12X could keep up with an i7 in many tasks at 1/4 the power consumption and marginal heat output. That is before we get to Intel hitting a brick wall in CPU development and Apple making massive gains with every generation and its graphics capabilities.

The days of jack of all trades, master of none processors are numbered, especially for mobile use. I personally think for first gen, we may see a hybrid system with Intel and Apples own silicon running in tandem for light weight optimised work. Apple already do something similar with T2.
 

Lakados

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Easily fast enough, the A12X could keep up with an i7 in many tasks at 1/4 the power consumption and marginal heat output. That is before we get to Intel hitting a brick wall in CPU development and Apple making massive gains with every generation and its graphics capabilities.

The days of jack of all trades, master of none processors are numbered, especially for mobile use. I personally think for first gen, we may see a hybrid system with Intel and Apples own silicon running in tandem for light weight optimised work. Apple already do something similar with T2.
I don’t think they would do it, I could see some people recommending it and a strong case for it but at the same time it would portray the image that their equipment wasn’t up to par or inferior and that is a hard image to shake. Would be better to hold off launch a year and come out the gate swinging for the fences.
 

aokman

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I don’t think they would do it, I could see some people recommending it and a strong case for it but at the same time it would portray the image that their equipment wasn’t up to par or inferior and that is a hard image to shake. Would be better to hold off launch a year and come out the gate swinging for the fences.
They will start with lightweight, low power platforms such as the Macbook which has a pissweak Intel chip already and work their way up.

The way Apple have done this is really smart, build a unified framework for mobile and desktop, developers are forced to use your framework to continue writing apps which means they are writing apps for your desktop platform without them even knowing it.

By the time anyone realises what is going on, it is already too late for Intel etc.

ARM has always had huge advantages for mobile, the problem was the chicken and the egg where developers aren’t going to write apps for a brand new platform with no users. Apple just moved the goal posts so they are writing for 2 platforms all along.
 

Arcygenical

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Apple's transition into this sort of computing, is exactly why I have moved off their platform after almost 20 years of using it. Alongside windows for most of it but, OSX had its golden era as well.
 

ChadD

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ARM is the better isa. Everyone associates them with low power and low performance cause that is the market that was open.

Software is what keeps things locked to X86... and software is becoming easier and easier to move back and forth. Compile tools get better every year. Apple has also built a good ecosystem around their mobile stuff software wise.

The key for Apple switching will be transition plans. If Apple can build out their tools so that 99% of software can be switched with a minimal amount of prep before recompile, it should be even smoother then their transition from power.
 

Auer

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Adobe is already on-board and ready to go with their lineup same with MSOffice. Apples apps are what the core of the users are using and the rest is likely a website.
I've been on board since the SE30 :)
Looking forward to the ARM generation.

I still edit from time to time on both a G4 mini and a 2014 Pro.
But in order to reduce clutter I dont have either on a desk right now.
 

Auer

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For the typical Apple users more then enough. All they care about is the logo on the computer. Hell they can double the price and probably be able to sell a ton.
All Apple computer users I know are creatives. Designers, photographers, artists etc.

To me, they are "Typical". And many use both PC and Apple.
 
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This could put a real hurt on Windows for laptop usage. Apple’s handheld ARM units are ludicrously powerful for mobile usage. I could definitely see them being scaled up for general purpose laptop usage, and as mentioned earlier in the thread, Apple already has their third party developers writing apps for it without even knowing.

In terms of maturity, Apple already moves more custom ARM CPUs in a quarter than AMD moves CPUs and GPUs combined in a year. If Apple did, in fact, release an ARM-powered laptop, that CPU would be something like their 7th generation of it. I believe at this point in time, Apple has already sold over a billion of their custom ARM CPUs. That’s a staggering number - especially considering nobody even realizes that.

All that said, this has been a recurring rumor for close to 10 years now. I mean, I guess it will eventually be correct. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
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For the typical Apple users more then enough. All they care about is the logo on the computer. Hell they can double the price and probably be able to sell a ton.
The typical [H] user is running a GPU less powerful than what’s in an iPad Pro. Take a minute to let that sink in.

Be careful when throwing around stupid stereotypes - you might unwittingly be precisely the idiot you think you’re describing.
 

Verge

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mac mini/air/whatever else comes will be ARM

xxx PRO will remain intel or ryzen.
 

GoodBoy

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I find it really hard to believe that reduced instruction set count, at lower Ghz speeds, is going to best a cisc running at 4Ghz.

For browsing instagram or taking selfies, sure ARM cpu's are great at that. Watching youtube.

Not buying that it will be able to do what the "creatives" buy Apple's to do... unless you lump instagram influencers into that bucket (I wouldn't do that).
 

Grimlakin

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I think this is interesting. I wonder what the impact will be on the enterprise front. A lot of our developers today where I work do web development on Mac. Will that need to change with ARM CPU's being in them... especially for server side App's expected to run on Intel CPU's? (Or hopefully AMD CPU's.)
 

aokman

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All Apple computer users I know are creatives. Designers, photographers, artists etc.

To me, they are "Typical". And many use both PC and Apple.
Agreed, I get so sick of the impression of Apple users as posers. The reality is they are people who just want to get work done with a seamless platform that stays out of the way.
 

raz-0

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Adobe is already on-board and ready to go with their lineup same with MSOffice. Apples apps are what the core of the users are using and the rest is likely a website.
Adobe is working on it. Last I checked, most of the CC suite isn't there. MSOffice is in similar state, you can have the mobile apps which are not feature complete compared to office, or you cna office for ARM which has... problems.

It'll probably get there, but ARM right now will be a major hit to things relying on an x86 compatible ecosystem.

For apple, they are already losing the graphics and video market hard due to cost and HP. They can capture the ultraportable blogger that needs some lightweight graphics and video market as well as a status symbol and reliable zero percent financing. Damn the price premium.
 

Sycraft

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Agreed, I get so sick of the impression of Apple users as posers. The reality is they are people who just want to get work done with a seamless platform that stays out of the way.
Eh, yes and no. For a lot of people it seems to be a fashion/identity thing. They want to use a Mac, even when one is manifestly not the right solution. They'll jump through hoops up to and including running a VM so they can run the programs they need (and now having two separate OSes and ecosystems to deal with) just so they can have their Mac. We see that at work a lot. I work at a university and professors are allowed to spend their money as they see fit. All of the infrastructure and support is built around Windows (and to a lesser extent Linux, but mostly for HPC/server stuff not desktop). A large number of the programs our college uses are not available for Macs, and they are of course more expensive for a given performance point. None the less, lots of them choose to buy Macs, even though they are told there is no support, then whine about it, spend time trying to get what they need working, etc. That is not someone who just wants to "get work done."
 

Auer

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Most people in Academia that cling to their Mac's do so out of habit and familiarity.
My wife was a prof for a while in NYC and got so used to it (Apple) she had a hard time give it up and why should she?
(Mac's had a strong foothold in Academia that still lingers today.)

To some people leaving a comfortable OS is not something done with ease.
Took my wife years to settle with a Lenovo Carbon X eventually, and she writes a lot, does presentations etc. Executive stuff.


Eh, yes and no. For a lot of people it seems to be a fashion/identity thing. They want to use a Mac, even when one is manifestly not the right solution. They'll jump through hoops up to and including running a VM so they can run the programs they need (and now having two separate OSes and ecosystems to deal with) just so they can have their Mac. We see that at work a lot. I work at a university and professors are allowed to spend their money as they see fit. All of the infrastructure and support is built around Windows (and to a lesser extent Linux, but mostly for HPC/server stuff not desktop). A large number of the programs our college uses are not available for Macs, and they are of course more expensive for a given performance point. None the less, lots of them choose to buy Macs, even though they are told there is no support, then whine about it, spend time trying to get what they need working, etc. That is not someone who just wants to "get work done."
 

jologskyblues

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I can see Apple going ARM SoCs for the MacBook, MacBook Air and perhaps, even the MacBook Pro 13.

For the high-end 16 inch MacBook Pro, Apple will probably stick with Intel or go AMD Ryzen before shifting to ARM.
 

Sycraft

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Most people in Academia that cling to their Mac's do so out of habit and familiarity.
My wife was a prof for a while in NYC and got so used to it (Apple) she had a hard time give it up and why should she?
(Mac's had a strong foothold in Academia that still lingers today.)

To some people leaving a comfortable OS is not something done with ease.
Took my wife years to settle with a Lenovo Carbon X eventually, and she writes a lot, does presentations etc. Executive stuff.
Some of these are old people, many are young new people. Also the reason they should change in our case is twofold:

1) In engineering, software doesn't run on the Mac. I mean some does, but maybe 20% or so. Most is either Windows and Linux or just Windows. So use the platform that supports the software you need.

2) Support. The university doesn't do Mac support. You can argue it should, but it has been brought up and in all cases the decision has been not to spend the money on it. So if you get a Dell system, we can take it, prep it with our image and have it to you with all the software you want in less than a day. It is fully integrated in to central sign on, security and so on. IF you have any issues, there are people that can support it. With a Mac, well you are on your own.

It just stands in opposition to the claim made that "they are people who just want to get work done". The people who just want to get their work done use whatever is recommended and supported for it, because they don't care. The computer is a tool, they'll use whichever tool work will support that gets the job done. The people who get Macs are doing it for other reasons.
 

pendragon1

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in my school division the teacher union insists on all members getting a macbook pro or air, then we load chrome and ms office and thats all they use. so why not a pc for a 1/3 the price and better specs?! because it doesnt have the apple logo thats why...
 

aokman

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in my school division the teacher union insists on all members getting a macbook pro or air, then we load chrome and ms office and thats all they use. so why not a pc for a 1/3 the price and better specs?! because it doesnt have the apple logo thats why...
No because some people don’t want to run Windows. Stop pretending like a PC is superior at everything and Windows 10 is such a wonderful OS. It is an utter piece of unreliable shit, full of bloat and telemetry and I would pay almost anything to not have to use it.

The funny part is everyone think of Apple users as mindless idiots but at least they are willing to take a stand and to stop taking it up the ass, using Microsofts garbage.

Why do IT people not support Mac, because they have been brainwashed to use Windows... gee sounds familiar.
 

Sycraft

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No because some people don’t want to run Windows. Stop pretending like a PC is superior at everything and Windows 10 is such a wonderful OS. It is an utter piece of unreliable shit, full of bloat and telemetry and I would pay almost anything to not have to use it.

The funny part is everyone think of Apple users as mindless idiots but at least they are willing to take a stand and to stop taking it up the ass, using Microsofts garbage.
That sounds kind of, well, idiotic to me. If you think that Windows, which runs the most desktops in the world, that underlies the second largest cloud is "an utter piece of unreliable shit," that implies you really don't know what you are talking about. So you can understand where the "mindless" bit might come from.

Also IT supporting Macs isn't as simple as IT people just not wanting to do so. When you want to support something in an enterprise environment you have to consider a whole lot of things. Some are things like "How will we tie this system in to our central authentication system?" or "How can we quickly deploy software?" These are doable on a Mac of course, but often require investment in additional software. Apple themselves uses JAMF, for example, which is not free. So the institution has to decide to put up the cash to buy the software, hardware, etc to make something supportable. Likewise they either need to hire the staff with the proper training, or train the staff in what they need to know. It is not incumbent on the individual to go out on their own time and become a Mac expert to satisfy the users that won't use what is officially recommended and supported. It is up to the institution to change the rules, and to then make sure staff gets the training/hiring needed to support it.
 

pendragon1

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what he said^^^, all of it. also, i never mentioned about "superiority", i mentioned cost and having a fancy logo. reeeeee on though....
No because some people don’t want to run Windows. Stop pretending like a PC is superior at everything and Windows 10 is such a wonderful OS. It is an utter piece of unreliable shit, full of bloat and telemetry and I would pay almost anything to not have to use it.

The funny part is everyone think of Apple users as mindless idiots but at least they are willing to take a stand and to stop taking it up the ass, using Microsofts garbage.

Why do IT people not support Mac, because they have been brainwashed to use Windows... gee sounds familiar.
 
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