Apple / Samsung / Sony 23-24 inch

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Sluuut

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Jul 10, 2006
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51
Hi,

I have read a lot of threads on this forum regarding TFT screens.

I'm about to sell my 2x19" and buy a new 23" or 24".

These are the ones i am considering:
- Apple Cinema Display 23"
- Samsung 244T
- Sony SDM-P234B

I like the Apple the most at this point, but there are still some unawsered questions..
Does it have an Super IPS screen, like the Apple 20" ? If it does, will it have less Input Lag then a MVA or PVA screen?
Will my Sapphire X1900XTX work in DOS mode and in Safemode of WinXP/Vista?

I read reports on the net that the Apple could not display some resolutions in combination with some VGA cards. But the question is, what cards exactly...

Also, can it downscale? For example, if i want to play a game on a resolution of 1280x1024, is this possible and will it stretch?

It's such a pity only Apple has such a nice design...
 
Both the Sony and the Apple are S-IPS and have less lag than the samsung which is known to lag pretty bad.
 
I own both the apple and the sony and both are excellent monitors. Out of the two I like the sony a little more but not because of any quality issue just because ithas more inputs.
 
none of them, 23" AS-IPS LCD panels due anytime now which will wipe the floor compared to the current apple, dell and samsung.
 
kleox64 said:
none of them, 23" AS-IPS LCD panels due anytime now which will wipe the floor compared to the current apple, dell and samsung.
Click to expand...

Could you please be more specific.
 
i used to have a powercolor x1900xt and it was a real git as i didnt see anything on the screen untill windows had fully loaded, you arent going to have much joy with the sapphire card getting the resolutions you want, i had to switch to a nvidia card with which any resolution worked, stretched and non stretched. only having one input is a real git aswell, i still got my 23" ACD though, had to get a vga to dvi convertor though for my samsung Q1. The screen is beautiful though. Its gotta be dam good if im willing to spend an extra 150 quid getting a vga output to work on it!!
Good luck in your choice, i cant say much about the sony or samsung as i have never seen one.
 
Thanx a lot for your information Rash.

Such a shame the ADC doesnt work on anything but the native res. I'm thinking about buying the Sony because that one has an IPS screen without input lag, and is also very beautifull (i luv the blue light!). Furthermore, the ADC 23" has an S-IPS witch has a real response time of ~23milisecond, according to Toms Hardware (.de)..

Do you, or anyone else, have revieuws of this Sony monitor? I couldn't find any good one..
 
Sluuut said:
Thanx a lot for your information Rash.

Such a shame the ADC doesnt work on anything but the native res. I'm thinking about buying the Sony because that one has an IPS screen without input lag, and is also very beautifull (i luv the blue light!). Furthermore, the ADC 23" has an S-IPS witch has a real response time of ~23milisecond, according to Toms Hardware (.de)..

Do you, or anyone else, have revieuws of this Sony monitor? I couldn't find any good one..
Click to expand...
I dont know of any reviews ill ask around when i get home, What i meant about the x1900xt on the ACD was resolutions like 320x240, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1280x720, 1680x1050 Did not work at all

But the resolutions that did work were: 1280x768, 1280x800, 1440x1024, 1600x1200, 1920x1080 and 1920x1200, very odd mixture of resolutions i know but, i searched everywhere on the net for a solution, apparently its atis fault and im sure that somewhere for certain manufacturers (not sure about sapphire) that the graphics cards had a bios update, or some people had more joy with a motherboard bios update. Sorry for only telling you this now, im at work and my ACD experience is slowly coming back to me!! My advice: see if there are motherboard and graphics card updates for your gear, if there is and it describes the dvi fixes then GO FOR THE ACD!!
cheers
Rash
 
If it helps, I've got two 23" Apple's (sounds funny) and sure they're more expensive...but they look pretty fancy with a solid aluminum base and casing. Although watch out if you want to use it on an older video card. I had no monitor for my older PC w/ a Nvidia 5700 and it simply didn't work. Apparently the ACD's are picky with older cards, there are posts about this on Apple's Discussion Forums. That said it works perfectly with a 9800 AIW I swapped in.
 
Rash said:
I dont know of any reviews ill ask around when i get home, What i meant about the x1900xt on the ACD was resolutions like 320x240, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1280x720, 1680x1050 Did not work at all

But the resolutions that did work were: 1280x768, 1280x800, 1440x1024, 1600x1200, 1920x1080 and 1920x1200, very odd mixture of resolutions i know but, i searched everywhere on the net for a solution, apparently its atis fault and im sure that somewhere for certain manufacturers (not sure about sapphire) that the graphics cards had a bios update, or some people had more joy with a motherboard bios update. Sorry for only telling you this now, im at work and my ACD experience is slowly coming back to me!! My advice: see if there are motherboard and graphics card updates for your gear, if there is and it describes the dvi fixes then GO FOR THE ACD!!
cheers
Rash
Click to expand...
Thats wierd, according to Apple's website it only supports up to 3 resolutions.. I got the latest updates for my motherboard (DFI Lanparty4 Ultra-D) and Sapphire X1900XTX, but there are no discriptions about ACD screens in the changelogs, what i think is pretty logical. Also this ACD only has one year warranty, the Sony has three years.. Ofcourse the chance of an ACD failure will be extremely low, but it's just not a good fealing to have only one year warranty. Cheers for your info m8!

clean_me said:
If it helps, I've got two 23" Apple's (sounds funny) and sure they're more expensive...but they look pretty fancy with a solid aluminum base and casing. Although watch out if you want to use it on an older video card. I had no monitor for my older PC w/ a Nvidia 5700 and it simply didn't work. Apparently the ACD's are picky with older cards, there are posts about this on Apple's Discussion Forums. That said it works perfectly with a 9800 AIW I swapped in.
Click to expand...
Sapphire Radeon X1900XTX ;)
And yes it looks fancy indeed :D But the Sony looks aight also..
Anyway, i guess the Samsung won't have any chance anyway cause its an overdrive PVA screen and that way i'll have input lag guaranteed. :(
 
I think your paying for the 3 year warranty in the price of the Sony (£300 more than the ACD) if your buying it in the UK that is!, The Sony from what ive seen on the web looks like a real nice screen. I think ill have to go to my local sony shop and have a look at one, Plenty of inputs!!! Beleive me I am a die hard Sony !!!!!! (take a look at some of my LCD setups on the show your lcd setup forums, but the ACD blew me away when i first tried one at the Apple Store, but you have me intrigued now, i need to see the sony in action.
 
New Apple 23" (August/september) on the way based on AS-IPS, anything based on PVA should be avoided due to the lag issues.
 
Rash said:
I think your paying for the 3 year warranty in the price of the Sony (£300 more than the ACD) if your buying it in the UK that is!, The Sony from what ive seen on the web looks like a real nice screen. I think ill have to go to my local sony shop and have a look at one, Plenty of inputs!!! Beleive me I am a die hard Sony !!!!!! (take a look at some of my LCD setups on the show your lcd setup forums, but the ACD blew me away when i first tried one at the Apple Store, but you have me intrigued now, i need to see the sony in action.
Click to expand...
I'm from the Netherlands.. the ACD is around 1300 euros, (maybe i can get discount but i have to figure that out first) and the Sony is 1240.. But i like the Apple more considering the beautifull design. I think they are both the same speed in games.. The Apple receives some pretty good revieuws but also some bad ones.. The Sony; couldn't find much reviews, and if i found one it pretty much sucked :p

Then there's the disadvantage of Apple having 1 year warranty plus i probably can't get into dos/safemode.. and won't be able to use every resolution i want :/

*Going to read/search everything about the Sony* :)
kleox64 said:
New Apple 23" (August/september) on the way based on AS-IPS, anything based on PVA should be avoided due to the lag issues.
Click to expand...
Is there any news this one will get more userfriendly, like an OSD, more resolutions and HDCP?
 
Sluuut said:
Thanx a lot for your information Rash.

Such a shame the ADC doesnt work on anything but the native res. I'm thinking about buying the Sony because that one has an IPS screen without input lag, and is also very beautifull (i luv the blue light!). Furthermore, the ADC 23" has an S-IPS witch has a real response time of ~23milisecond, according to Toms Hardware (.de)..

Do you, or anyone else, have revieuws of this Sony monitor? I couldn't find any good one..
Click to expand...

There's alot of user reviews on newegg. Not sure if you've seen these already but there's a review on pcmag, gamepc, and tomshardware.
 
TechStuey05 said:
There's alot of user reviews on newegg. Not sure if you've seen these already but there's a review on pcmag, gamepc, and tomshardware.
Click to expand...
I think the Toms Hardware Review has gone. I found a link through google:
www.tomshardware.fr/moniteurs-lcd-16-9-enfin-au-niveau-article-moniteur-1138-1.html
But that did not work anymore.. and it's also not in the cache. Furthermore, the search function on www.tomshardware.fr does not work :s

I found the pcmac review here; http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1638335,00.asp but it isnt very usefull.. just a user review. I think most users who buy a monitor like it anyways, just because they bought it... Most people dont want to know about the problems because they spent so much money on it.

I can't find the review on www.pcgame.com
 
Who said the samsung sucks?

Both people I saw who just got a new 244T said it doesn't lag at all. It is S-PVA by the way. I think those that were lagging were the first batch. Just like the first batch of the 204Bs we're messed up as well.

In any case I'd go with the 244T than the Apple or Sony. Better pixel response time, good colors.
 
I second that, if they were so bad, they wouldn't be sold out in most places I looked when I was looking to purchase mine back in march.
 
I think they are sold out just because people never heard of input lag, and it's cheap..

But anyways, i'm gonna have a look if i can "borrow" the Apple Cinema Display 23 inch to test it out some days. If i am satisfied i will keep it, if not, i will probably order the Sony.

Thanx a lot for the advise so far!! :)
 
antioch said:
Who said the samsung sucks?

Both people I saw who just got a new 244T said it doesn't lag at all. It is S-PVA by the way. I think those that were lagging were the first batch. Just like the first batch of the 204Bs we're messed up as well.

In any case I'd go with the 244T than the Apple or Sony. Better pixel response time, good colors.
Click to expand...

The lag is due to the PVA technology plus the combination of overdrive which is massively used in the 244T panels and required to achieve the 6ms g2g response. There is no fix and no solution and is existant in every single PVA based LCD, the issue is whether people can see it.
 
Sluuut said:
I think the Toms Hardware Review has gone. I found a link through google:
www.tomshardware.fr/moniteurs-lcd-16-9-enfin-au-niveau-article-moniteur-1138-1.html
But that did not work anymore.. and it's also not in the cache. Furthermore, the search function on www.tomshardware.fr does not work :s

I found the pcmac review here; http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1638335,00.asp but it isnt very usefull.. just a user review. I think most users who buy a monitor like it anyways, just because they bought it... Most people dont want to know about the problems because they spent so much money on it.

I can't find the review on www.pcgame.com
Click to expand...

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/03/wide_format_lcd_monitors/
 
Well the Samsung isn't "cheap," it costs more than the Sony does.

Speaking of the Sony, not sure about the Apple but would assume so since they use the same exact panel, but I would buy neither. Why? Thier pixel response times are too slow. 16ms = ghosting. Not a lot but I've heard reports of noticable ghosting on the Sony.
 
DO NOT get the Apple 23" Cinema. I just had to RMA one and got another back with the same issue; I think a lot of 23" Cinema's are defective with regards to some subpixels taking a LONG time to switch, I mean 30+ seconds long, not ms like they're rated. I'm testing it on another computer tomorrow to make sure, then I'm calling again and raising hell. It only happens when you have a grey/blueish area and drag the window over a bright spot, but it's extremely annoying.

For instance I took a screen capture of a part of my background where I noticed some uneven backlighting and shadowing of an image, then in the previewer app dragged it around in front of the google webpage open in safari. I could SEE THROUGH IT, the google logo was completely readable as was the search form and the smaller links. If I minimize the google webpage it stays on my desktop almost like a burned-in image, then goes away after a minute or two. This is outrageous for a $1200+ display!

My first one also had SIX stuck pixels tons of them were toward the center of the display, and one was *exactly* (within 2") in the center, and shown bright green on a black screen which was really awesome for watching movies. The RMA has no stuck pixels that I can find, but the ghosting seems to be actually worse and I think the response time is as well, it may have been replaced with the older 16ms panel.

Oh, Apple also didn't screw down the replacement LCD all the way! When I was gently rubbing the lcd screen with a cloth to get the slight dust it had accumulated during transit off, I noticed that the backlight was changing drastically depending on where I pressed. Too drastically. Then I pressed toward the side lightly, and the lcd was literally banging into the bezel because it wasn't fastened properly. Completely. Outrageous.

I'm pissed. My Macbook is also hot as hell which is awesome. I actually got the annoying Macbook pro whine for a few minutes yesterday, which I could actually hear over the fan in my Air Conditioner. I wasn't aware that this was even an issue with the macbook! I know Apple doesn't have the best track record with regards to quality but man this is pretty annoying. My iBook came with a damaged bezel from apple which they remedied by sending me a brand new iBook (with upgrades!), but the screen was pretty horrible. Still that was good service, and I'm hoping I can get them to fix this or at least offer me a discount on the 30" if I have to upgrade to get rid of this issue.
 
novagamer192 said:
Still that was good service, and I'm hoping I can get them to fix this or at least offer me a discount on the 30" if I have to upgrade to get rid of this issue.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should consider another brand if you've had so many problems with them in the past?
 
Choad Namath said:
Maybe you should consider another brand if you've had so many problems with them in the past?
Click to expand...

yea good point! it only takes my 1 time to say i wont buy this again!
 
Choad Namath said:
Maybe you should consider another brand if you've had so many problems with them in the past?
Click to expand...

Well I paid the premium for the Apple Display because I do like the aesthetics and the sleek interface. They're also willing to work with me (thusfar) and therefore I'm going to give them another chance, I haven't got much to lose really... if they can't fix this issue then I'll make them give me my money back.

I was able to capture the problem on video so I'll direct the tech to that and hopefully he will be a little bit more understanding once he sees what's going on, whether they can use that to fix the issue or not I don't know. Like I said though I haven't tried the LCD with another computer yet so I guess it might by a longshot be related to the integrated graphics or something, but I really doubt it.
 
Hmm not a good story about the Apple screen :p

In any case, i am 100% sure i do not want an overdrive PVA screen. I do not want input lag :p

If the Sony is the same panel, is there a chance i will suck to? Honestly i don't care about the 16ms responsetime, because my 19" Iiyama has en IPS panel with 25ms and i can game fine with it.

I could also fall back on my first choice which was 2x20/2x21" dual screen.

Damn, life is hard. Can't make the choices.. :p

(This reminds me on buying my TV, it took 2 months to figer out which one i wanted)
 
I think its luck of the draw with any brand nowadays wether you get a perfect one or defective one. Personally though the 23" ACD i have is perfect for any computer/console situation, i dont see any ghosting etc. Just make sure you dont lose your receipt!!
 
the 23'' sony is supposedly very good with video according to tom's hardware...the specs won't blow anyone away on paper, but tom's hardware and user reviews on newegg seem to be pretty good...

i saw the panel in a sony store and messed around with it, although that doesn't qualify as any kind of test, but i CAN tell you that the design of the stand and bezel is outstanding (no portrait mode however)...

i'd buy one of these in a hearbeat, HDCP be damned, if it weren't for the price...i may be able to get one for a little over 900 USD, and i just might do it...but the 2407, problems and all, is only 800 USD at costco (return policy is outstanding)...

don't know if the myriad issues with the 2407 would bother me all that much or not...
 
I would wait for the S-IPS 24 inch panels which we will see this fall. NEC is using it in their 2490 which will be released this fall.
 
and another little anecdote from my outing at the sony store, the guy who worked there claimed that an HDCP version of the 23'' sony WS LCD was to be available on the 27th of July, he said he saw it on the manifest...

i haven't heard anything about that at all, and i really doubt the validity of such a claim...i even called another sony store and asked if an HDCP version of the 23'' S-IPS LCD was coming out this month, and the girl who answered the phone said she was not aware of any such product...

i REALLY hope both she and I are wrong and the dude at the 1st store is right though....
 
vizx said:
and another little anecdote from my outing at the sony store, the guy who worked there claimed that an HDCP version of the 23'' sony WS LCD was to be available on the 27th of July, he said he saw it on the manifest...

i haven't heard anything about that at all, and i really doubt the validity of such a claim...i even called another sony store and asked if an HDCP version of the 23'' S-IPS LCD was coming out this month, and the girl who answered the phone said she was not aware of any such product...

i REALLY hope both she and I are wrong and the dude at the 1st store is right though....
Click to expand...

To be fair, most people working in retail are not the sharpest tool in the shed. The guy who claimed a new version was on the horizon has no incentive to lie to you. The girl is simply one in a long line of clueless retail jockey and we all know there are plenty of those in retail.
 
if the 1st "sony store guy" is in fact right about a new 23'' S-IPS LCD coming out on July 27th, and it's HDCP compliant, I will personally confess my doubts about his honesty, apologize, buy him another grande jug of whatever whipped-latte-shake-thing he was drinking and introduce him to my desperate neighbor...

after said activities, i will hit him up for his employee discount...
 
That's why i bumped to the ViewSonic VP231WB yesterday. I saw this was the only 23" with S-IPS widescreen that is prepared for HDCP. I would like to keep this new bought monitor for some years so i might as well consider the future..
vp231wb_1.jpg

viewsonic-23-i1.gif

According to Toms Hardware (which i trust very much) it is not a wonderfull screen. The Sony does better in those tests. But all other reviews give the ViewSonic about an 8 or 9 out of 10..

The Apple screen left my sight anyways, because it has to many disadvantages.
So now it's between the Sony and ViewSonic.. I don't like the foot of the Sony because i want the panel to be higher and the Sony does not allowed this. But, the Sony gets more good rewards then the ViewSonic. Design is about the same, for me.. I like the looks of the Sony but i defenitly like the looks of the ViewSonic also!
 
I have no such problems with my two 23" Apple monitors. Watching movies are really good, excellent contrast. Playing the limited games I do, I haven't noticed any problems. When I work in Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator/GoLive the colours are spot on as with Maya 3D and other programs etc etc

Hope this helps. :)
 
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